DJ's Letter

[Ow-So7411501]

But you have to admire the fact that Axl won't cave in and give in to the public and industry pressure to make him reunite with the old band. I give him that much.

But to what end?

To this?  What *this* really what you thought he was going to do once he took over?

That's more my point here.  I think your argument is far stronger if you could say, no, he's not reuniting his old band...because he has all this going on with the new band.  Like if he built a whole other life for himself.

But this...whatever the hell this is, its not that.

That's a separate argument though. Do I think he could've done a lot more with the name....absolutely. The argument that I was making was that you kind of have to admire the fact that he simply wont give in to what the industry wants. To him it has to be under the right circumstances (whether they are right or wrong who the hell knows).

But it's not just giving in to what the industry wants...it's more like what the rest of the world (sans most people here) want.

I really don't understand the noble cause against the industry stance.  I mean, he still has to work with "the industry" even with the current lineup, for things like tours, residencies, AFD release, etc.  IMO, it's all pretext for he and Slash can't stand each other.  No righteous stance against "the man" or just cause to fight for.  He and Slash hate each other.  Period.

Im not saying its a noble cause against the industry or establishment. Im just saying that I admire that he sticks to "his" principles. Regardless if he's right or wrong. At least he seems to be true to himself. Whether he's deluded or not is another argument.

[EmilyGNR]

Current GNR is the very embodiment of the concept something is better than nothing.  A more literal definition in this business would be hard to find.

Nice attempt at a pseudo-witty dig at GNR.

Who is trying to be witty?

I think Axl dropping off the face of the Earth in 1995 and never resurfacing is the worst possible outcome.  Compared to that, what we have gotten the past 15 years is preferable.

But you pretty much have to put things in that sort of dire context to really champion the operation.  So, in essence, what he have is better than literal nothing.

Comparing it in other contexts?  That gets tricky.

No, YOU have to put things in a dire context to continue on your little campaign of hate.

Some of us appreciate the band.

Nobody ever promised you a rose garden.

[Ow-So7411501]

Regarding your question what we got after 1995. An active band, despite people quitting one by one.... It's easy to forget that it had to be rebuilt.

Can we discuss why they all quit, one by one?  Or better to gloss over that and champion the brave rebuild?

Reminds me of a scene from the Royal Tenenbaums..

[Royal motions to Pagoda]
Royal: He saved my life, you know. Thirty years ago. I was knifed at a bazaar in Calcutta, and he carried me to the hospital on his back.
Ari: Who stabbed you?
[Royal motions to Pagoda again]
Royal: He did. There was a price on my head, and he was a hired assassin. Stuck me in the gut with a shiv.

+1 for quoting Royal Tenenbaums!!

[D-GenerationX]

Underrated movie, that one.

[jarmo]

You do have a habit of trying to paint a picture where Axl was left high and dry through no fault of his own thouhg.  And implying having to rebuild all this was not his first choice.

I have a habit of thinking!

Now I'm thinking, if people all leave at once, it's one thing to deal with. If they leave one by one over a period of years, it's another thing....
Amazing how you can see the difference by just thinking for like five seconds.

Now I need a nap!

The guy that winds up with cancer out of the blue, that's a horrible story.  The guy that winds up with cancer because he smoked 3 packs a day and dipped since he was a teen, well...that one you could kind of see coming.

I'll pretend not to understand what you're trying to say.
What are you trying to say?



/jarmo

[Ow-So7411501]

Ahhh!!! The board is back to normal. DX and Jarmo arguing. Music to my ears.

[D-GenerationX]

The guy that winds up with cancer out of the blue, that's a horrible story.  The guy that winds up with cancer because he smoked 3 packs a day and dipped since he was a teen, well...that one you could kind of see coming.

I'll pretend not to understand what you're trying to say.
What are you trying to say?

Saying Axl is the poor unwitting victim in that whole debacle is a joke.  Like this all just happened to him out of nowhere.

When a guy treats his girl like shit, doesn't call her back, and is just generally awful...all to get her to break up with him so he can then say "hey man, she broke up with me"...who is taking that seriously?  Your actions brought about that reaction.  You are not the victim.

I'm right with you that rebuilding this band from scratch considering how huge they were was going to be a bitch of a task.

But why are you in that spot?  Because others walked out on you for no reason?  Please.

[D-GenerationX]

Ahhh!!! The board is back to normal. DX and Jarmo arguing. Music to my ears.

He hits me with all these questions, which I take the time to answer, and then he tells me to go to Dead Horse.

Yet if I don't answer him, he follows me around like a puppy dog demanding I pay him some attention.  No win situation for me.

So...I answer the questions.  Ultimately, its what he wants, so he can then rail against my answers.

I'm a team player.

[jarmo]

He hits me with all these questions, which I take the time to answer, and then he tells me to go to Dead Horse.

Yet if I don't answer him, he follows me around like a puppy dog demanding I pay him some attention.  No win situation for me.

So...I answer the questions.  Ultimately, its what he wants, so he can then rail against my answers.

I'm a team player.

It's that time of the month? Cue the Pity Party music!

Let's see how the ball buster takes this joke.... I'm sure somebody's feelings got hurt. Again.
Apologies to those who can't take a joke, but are quick to joke about others.

Saying Axl is the poor unwitting victim in that whole debacle is a joke.  Like this all just happened to him out of nowhere.

When a guy treats his girl like shit, doesn't call her back, and is just generally awful...all to get her to break up with him so he can then say "hey man, she broke up with me"...who is taking that seriously?  Your actions brought about that reaction.  You are not the victim.

I'm right with you that rebuilding this band from scratch considering how huge they were was going to be a bitch of a task.

But why are you in that spot?  Because others walked out on you for no reason?  Please.

Glad you made it clear what your real opinions are.

Once again, you're making generalizations.
Did somebody here say it happened out of nowhere? If two people want control over something, it doesn't mean the last man standing is the bad cop just because the press says so.

This whole discussion really belongs in 1999 or maybe 2003....




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

This whole discussion really belongs in 1999 or maybe 2003....

I agree.

Let's talk about the present.  Go ahead, I'll let you start us off.

[jarmo]

Cool.

Do you think you'll go see GN'R on their next tour since you chose to skip their shows on the last two legs that came to your area?


A bonus: Do you think the vocal fans who need new music, but didn't like Chinese Democracy, will enjoy the next one?



/jarmo

[sky dog]

This is like the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight! A whole lot of nothing! 

No punches landed yet!

[Ow-So7411501]

Cool.

Do you think you'll go see GN'R on their next tour since you chose to skip their shows on the last two legs that came to your area?


A bonus: Do you think the vocal fans who need new music, but didn't like Chinese Democracy, will enjoy the next one?



/jarmo

Wait....so true fans have to go to every tour and like everything that they put out?

[D-GenerationX]

Do you think you'll go see GN'R on their next tour since you chose to skip their shows on the last two legs that came to your area?

I will most likely, yes.  

Theoretically, it would be something new.  Which would stand in contrast to their last trip through my "area" (a mere hour plus away).  

A bonus: Do you think the vocal fans who need new music, but didn't like Chinese Democracy, will enjoy the next one?

Can't really answer, as you are describing a group of people that do not exist.

No one that didn't like 'Chinese Democracy' is at all interested in new music.  The however dwindling number of people still interested in new music from Axl Rose liked 'Chinese Democracy'.

But no one that hated 'Chinese Democracy' is exactly on pins and needles about the second half of those sessions.

[jarmo]

Wait....so true fans have to go to every tour and like everything that they put out?

Where did I say that?

I asked one person who wanted to have a discussion about whether or not he thinks he'll go considering his past non-attendances. Simple.

I will most likely, yes.  

Theoretically, it would be something new.  Which would stand in contrast to their last trip through my "area" (a mere hour plus away).  

Cool. An hour away? Only! 

The closest GN'R show for me was in another country!

Can't really answer, as you are describing a group of people that do not exist.

No one that didn't like 'Chinese Democracy' is at all interested in new music.  The however dwindling number of people still interested in new music from Axl Rose liked 'Chinese Democracy'.

But no one that hated 'Chinese Democracy' is exactly on pins and needles about the second half of those sessions.

I don't agree. I think some of them do exist and they call themselves GN'R fans.
Liking a few tracks on Chinese and needing more new music to own.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Cool. An hour away? Only! 

The closest GN'R show for me was in another country!

Well, it certainly didn't help that at the time the tickets were on sale, the only thing I had to go on were the clips I was seeing from the South American tour.  Most of which were a trainwreck.

So : same old setlist + Axl that sounds like shit + hour plus drive that I could never con anyone into taking with me = no DX at that casino

Can't really answer, as you are describing a group of people that do not exist.

No one that didn't like 'Chinese Democracy' is at all interested in new music.  The however dwindling number of people still interested in new music from Axl Rose liked 'Chinese Democracy'.

But no one that hated 'Chinese Democracy' is exactly on pins and needles about the second half of those sessions.

I don't agree. I think some of them do exist and they call themselves GN'R fans.
Liking a few tracks on Chinese and needing more new music to own.

I have seen no evidence such people exist.  And I am here, and at several other GNR forums, each and every day.

I posit these group of supposed people exist solely for the purposes of this convoluted question.  And you could not actually produce them, even if you offered cash prizes.

[jarmo]

Well, it certainly didn't help that at the time the tickets were on sale, the only thing I had to go on were the clips I was seeing from the South American tour.  Most of which were a trainwreck.

So : same old setlist + Axl that sounds like shit + hour plus drive that I could never con anyone into taking with me = no DX at that casino

But still, your favorite band.
And in hindsight, your last chance to see that particular line-up....

I didn't see the 2002 tour because the shows were a bit further away than the neighboring country.... So, I've been there and done that...

I have seen no evidence such people exist.  And I am here, and at several other GNR forums, each and every day.

I posit these group of supposed people exist solely for the purposes of this convoluted question.  And you could not actually produce them, even if you offered cash prizes.

So you're honestly saying that all the people on the GN'R forums love Chinese Democracy?




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Well, it certainly didn't help that at the time the tickets were on sale, the only thing I had to go on were the clips I was seeing from the South American tour.  Most of which were a trainwreck.

So : same old setlist + Axl that sounds like shit + hour plus drive that I could never con anyone into taking with me = no DX at that casino

But still, your favorite band.
And in hindsight, your last chance to see that particular line-up....

The line-up is irrelevant at this stage of the game.  I'm going to see Axl and whoever he brings with him.  They are all just a number at this point.  No connection to any of them.

The bootlegs I have from 2012 are horrifying.  So when he comes back in 2014 and sounds as bad, if not worse, there wasn't much reason to think things would improve.

Having said that, I thought he sounded great by the time the residency rolled around.  If I had to buy tickets based on those Vegas clips, I'd have done so.  Even having to drive over an hour by myself. 

The South American clips offered no such hope, however.

[D-GenerationX]

So you're honestly saying that all the people on the GN'R forums love Chinese Democracy?

No, sounds like you are saying that.

I'm saying the people described in your original question ("vocal fans that need new music but didn't like 'Chinese Democracy'") do not exist.

If you didn't like 'Chinese Democracy', you don't give a damn about the second half of those sessions.

So this notion that there are allegedly these legions of people that say they can't wait for a new album, even though they hated the last one...these people do not exist.

[Ow-So7411501]

Cool.

A bonus: Do you think the vocal fans who need new music, but didn't like Chinese Democracy, will enjoy the next one?



/jarmo

Can you elaborate what you mean by your question above? Isn't it good for a "band" if fans want (don't view it as needing) to hear new music instead of being happy with the status quo? Just because someone didn't like CD doesn't necessarily mean they wont like the next one. Maybe CD didn't have any songs that connected with this hypothetical person and maybe the next release will.