DJ's Letter

[ITARocker]

My opinion still is, if an outsider looks at a fan site where a majority of posts are negative, (s)he'll get the impression that not even the hardcore fans like the band.
That isn't exactly good for anything or anybody.

I have zero interest in assisting that kind of behavior. Sorry.

/jarmo

How could the majority of posts ever be positive? Really, are you serious?

And plz stop referring to Gnr as a  "band". This is not a band, i told you thousand times, and time proved that. Actually even a nobody like me could play in gnr. Gnr is Axl Rose. Nobody cares about gnr, everybody cares about Axl Rose. The magic of "the band" has gone times ago, Axl Rose should leave behind the gnr monicker forever. Playin' as a solo act, that would be the most honest thing he could ever do. He just failed, he can't go on this way. I know he just don't care, he's a business man...but i think the gnr cow has been milked enough. I think this is the lowest point of gnr, ever.

[JAEBALL]

Look... I'm not happy with the way things have gone over the years... especially right now..i too wish Axl would leave the burden of the GNR name behind...but hey...nobody asked me.

There is also absolutely no good way to spin two more guitar playing quitters...

But... I will always be an Axl fan..and I hope to hear the rest of his songs soon.

And if you come here time and time again to just bash everybody and everything involved... you need to re evaluate... do something else to fill your time

Even DX.. you know I agree with a lot of ur stuff...but don't you ever get bored of the same arguments every single day ?

[D-GenerationX]

Even DX.. you know I agree with a lot of ur stuff...but don't you ever get bored of the same arguments every single day ?

I don't bring them up.  But when Jarmo someone does, you know what you are going to get.

I have yet to start a thread in this folder in 3 years.

[jarmo]

How could the majority of posts ever be positive? Really, are you serious?

I know they can't, for obvious reasons ("It's not the way I like it whine whine whine"....)

And plz stop referring to Gnr as a  "band". This is not a band, i told you thousand times, and time proved that.

You told me?
Maybe I just didn't pay enough attention to care.... And also, maybe I'm not interested in the "it's not a band" discussion for the umpteenth time. I'd rather watch paint dry.

Look... I'm not happy with the way things have gone over the years... especially right now..i too wish Axl would leave the burden of the GNR name behind...but hey...nobody asked me.

I don't think most fans are happy about it.
But people look at it differently.
Some see some kind of opportunity in it (you must've seen all those "Buckethead/Robin/insert guitar player" posts) while others just assume the worst once again ("Oh no, it's over. Again").

It is what it is.
And whether or not you're unhappy about guitar players choosing to pursue other options in their lives, it still doesn't change anything.

And if you come here time and time again to just bash everybody and everything involved... you need to re evaluate... do something else to fill your time

You got the point. 



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Did mortis actually leave?  I thought I saw a post where he cashed out.

[Ginger King]

But you have to admire the fact that Axl won't cave in and give in to the public and industry pressure to make him reunite with the old band. I give him that much.

But to what end?

To this?  What *this* really what you thought he was going to do once he took over?

That's more my point here.  I think your argument is far stronger if you could say, no, he's not reuniting his old band...because he has all this going on with the new band.  Like if he built a whole other life for himself.

But this...whatever the hell this is, its not that.

That's a separate argument though. Do I think he could've done a lot more with the name....absolutely. The argument that I was making was that you kind of have to admire the fact that he simply wont give in to what the industry wants. To him it has to be under the right circumstances (whether they are right or wrong who the hell knows).

But it's not just giving in to what the industry wants...it's more like what the rest of the world (sans most people here) want.

I really don't understand the noble cause against the industry stance.  I mean, he still has to work with "the industry" even with the current lineup, for things like tours, residencies, AFD release, etc.  IMO, it's all pretext for he and Slash can't stand each other.  No righteous stance against "the man" or just cause to fight for.  He and Slash hate each other.  Period.

[CherryGarcia]

Didn't they stop being equals once Steven was fired?

After that it was Axl, Slash and management. Duff was consulted about things. Izzy wasn't really involved.

I think the whole equals thing and having common goals stopped way before 1993.
/jarmo

The contract which 'stopped the being equals' thing wasn't put in place until July 1993. Ask Duff, he can give you the exact date it happened; it is there in his book.
Prior to this GN'R were an equal partnership. Izzy still was a shareholder in GN'R until November 1997 despite being out of the band.
The band was recognized as legally consisting of Axl, Slash, and Duff in an equal partnership in 1993; all had equal say and power over Guns N' Roses.
Axl left said partnership in December 1995, and began a new band also called Guns N' Roses, which Slash and Duff were invited to join as employees. In a band they helped create and pushed to success.

What have we gotten since 1995? 15 songs. A live album. A few tours, a DVD. One or two interviews with Axl.
What did we get prior to 1995? 5 studio albums, multiple music videos, a worldwide mega successful tour, a live VHS, Making of Music Video VHS tapes, multiple interviews....

[D-GenerationX]

I really don't understand the noble cause against the industry stance.  I mean, he still has to work with "the industry" even with the current lineup, for things like tours, residencies, AFD release, etc.  IMO, it's all pretext for he and Slash can't stand each other.  No righteous stance against "the man" or just cause to fight for.  He and Slash hate each other.  Period.

Yep.

Its only a small segment of the fanbase that puts all this stock in the nobility of it all.  Even amongst our own number, most roll their eyes at the concept.

[NaturalLight]

Didn't they stop being equals once Steven was fired?

After that it was Axl, Slash and management. Duff was consulted about things. Izzy wasn't really involved.

I think the whole equals thing and having common goals stopped way before 1993.
/jarmo

The contract which 'stopped the being equals' thing wasn't put in place until July 1993. Ask Duff, he can give you the exact date it happened; it is there in his book.
Prior to this GN'R were an equal partnership. Izzy still was a shareholder in GN'R until November 1997 despite being out of the band.
The band was recognized as legally consisting of Axl, Slash, and Duff in an equal partnership in 1993; all had equal say and power over Guns N' Roses.
Axl left said partnership in December 1995, and began a new band also called Guns N' Roses, which Slash and Duff were invited to join as employees. In a band they helped create and pushed to success.

What have we gotten since 1995? 15 songs. A live album. A few tours, a DVD. One or two interviews with Axl.
What did we get prior to 1995? 5 studio albums, multiple music videos, a worldwide mega successful tour, a live VHS, Making of Music Video VHS tapes, multiple interviews....

Technically, 16 songs. Your forgot silkworms.
Two live albums
Way more than "one or two" interviews.

I think the background you provide is interesting. However, when you get the fact wrong in your argument, I don't know whether the info is any good.

I'm not trying to be a dick by the way.

[jarmo]

I think the point made was about Axl not doing what everybody else in the business is doing. Just because you have to.
All those "but _____ [insert band/artist] is/are doing it, why can't Axl/GN'R?" posts.

Some fans think he should be like everybody else because it's the way the business is.
Even if it means he wouldn't feel comfortable doing it. They want products and probably couldn't care less about what Axl wants.

It's safe to assume all of us want more GN'R. But there's some of us who don't demand it (demand might be a too strong word to describe it).
The so called lack of new material isn't what we think about when we think about GN'R. For others, it seems to matter a lot.

The contract which 'stopped the being equals' thing wasn't put in place until July 1993. Ask Duff, he can give you the exact date it happened; it is there in his book.
Prior to this GN'R were an equal partnership. Izzy still was a shareholder in GN'R until November 1997 despite being out of the band.
The band was recognized as legally consisting of Axl, Slash, and Duff in an equal partnership in 1993; all had equal say and power over Guns N' Roses.
Axl left said partnership in December 1995, and began a new band also called Guns N' Roses, which Slash and Duff were invited to join as employees. In a band they helped create and pushed to success.

Fair enough.

But keep in mind, all those stories about them being forced to sign a contract... We've already went over that one.


So now we are talking about certain members being equals versus everybody in the band being equals?

I don't buy the idea that a kitchen with many cooks is better than one with one head chef....  Also, you forgot to mention that during those days of equality, Steven was fired, Izzy quit. Even though it was all roses on the democracy front.... So, shit still went down.

Regarding your question what we got after 1995. An active band, despite people quitting one by one.... It's easy to forget that it had to be rebuilt.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Regarding your question what we got after 1995. An active band, despite people quitting one by one.... It's easy to forget that it had to be rebuilt.

Can we discuss why they all quit, one by one?  Or better to gloss over that and champion the brave rebuild?

[jarmo]

Really? That's interesting?

I think Dead Horse is calling you again....



/jarmo

[EmilyGNR]

Regarding your question what we got after 1995. An active band, despite people quitting one by one.... It's easy to forget that it had to be rebuilt.

Can we discuss why they all quit, one by one?  Or better to gloss over that and champion the brave rebuild?

Sure, anything that supports your negative narrative.

Nobody is "glossing over" a thing, It is no less than miraculous that GNR is still around, yet some trolls seem to disparage that fact instead of being thankful.

[D-GenerationX]

Really? That's interesting?

Interesting?  Not really.

But this notion that Axl is the aggrieved party here when all these guys quit totally out of the blue out of nowhere for no reason at all...come on.  Believe that, you might as well believe in the Easter Bunny.

[D-GenerationX]

Regarding your question what we got after 1995. An active band, despite people quitting one by one.... It's easy to forget that it had to be rebuilt.

Can we discuss why they all quit, one by one?  Or better to gloss over that and champion the brave rebuild?

Sure, anything that supports your negative narrative.

Nobody is "glossing over" a thing, It is no less than miraculous that GNR is still around, yet some trolls seem to disparage that fact instead of being thankful.

Current GNR is the very embodiment of the concept something is better than nothing.  A more literal definition in this business would be hard to find.

[EmilyGNR]

Regarding your question what we got after 1995. An active band, despite people quitting one by one.... It's easy to forget that it had to be rebuilt.

Can we discuss why they all quit, one by one?  Or better to gloss over that and champion the brave rebuild?

Sure, anything that supports your negative narrative.

Nobody is "glossing over" a thing, It is no less than miraculous that GNR is still around, yet some trolls seem to disparage that fact instead of being thankful.

Current GNR is the very embodiment of the concept something is better than nothing.  A more literal definition in this business would be hard to find.

Nice attempt at a pseudo-witty dig at GNR.

Why don't you go find moaning mortis and you two can have a whine-a-thon and cry about how GNR won't do things your way. 

[LongGoneDay]

Regarding your question what we got after 1995. An active band, despite people quitting one by one.... It's easy to forget that it had to be rebuilt.

Can we discuss why they all quit, one by one?  Or better to gloss over that and champion the brave rebuild?

Reminds me of a scene from the Royal Tenenbaums..

[Royal motions to Pagoda]
Royal: He saved my life, you know. Thirty years ago. I was knifed at a bazaar in Calcutta, and he carried me to the hospital on his back.
Ari: Who stabbed you?
[Royal motions to Pagoda again]
Royal: He did. There was a price on my head, and he was a hired assassin. Stuck me in the gut with a shiv.

[jarmo]

But this notion that Axl is the aggrieved party here when all these guys quit totally out of the blue out of nowhere for no reason at all...come on.  Believe that, you might as well believe in the Easter Bunny.

That's just your words in order to try to make your own opinion seem more valid.

I don't recall making those claims myself....

Easter Bunny, no. I did meet Santa Claus a while back though.


/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

But this notion that Axl is the aggrieved party here when all these guys quit totally out of the blue out of nowhere for no reason at all...come on.  Believe that, you might as well believe in the Easter Bunny.

That's just your words in order to try to make your own opinion seem more valid.

I don't recall making those claims myself....

Easter Bunny, no. I did meet Santa Claus a while back though.

Hahahaha

You do have a habit of trying to paint a picture where Axl was left high and dry through no fault of his own thouhg.  And implying having to rebuild all this was not his first choice.

I think both are a stretch.  I think most people would find both of those to be a stretch.

The guy that winds up with cancer out of the blue, that's a horrible story.  The guy that winds up with cancer because he smoked 3 packs a day and dipped since he was a teen, well...that one you could kind of see coming.

[D-GenerationX]

Current GNR is the very embodiment of the concept something is better than nothing.  A more literal definition in this business would be hard to find.

Nice attempt at a pseudo-witty dig at GNR.

Who is trying to be witty?

I think Axl dropping off the face of the Earth in 1995 and never resurfacing is the worst possible outcome.  Compared to that, what we have gotten the past 15 years is preferable.

But you pretty much have to put things in that sort of dire context to really champion the operation.  So, in essence, what he have is better than literal nothing.

Comparing it in other contexts?  That gets tricky.