Can we put the name issue to bed...the man's words

[sky dog]

slightly off but artists certainly aren't going to make money selling music anymore....Trent Reznor interview in RS...

As an artist, there's the difficult transition from realizing that where you used to sell an item that you got X amount for ? those days are over. And the toothpaste is not going to go back in the tube. And people aren't going to suddenly want to buy CDs again and feel good about overpaying for them. That's a fact. Most of my peers have swallowed the bitter pill that I have swallowed, which is that you don't make a lot of money selling music these days. It's just the way it is. I don't think that's the way it should be, but that is the way it is. So I'm excited to accept that.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/trent-reznor-on-apple-music-other-services-left-me-feeling-lacking-20150630#ixzz3eeUaAWsj
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[LongGoneDay]

Come on now.
Having a go at Slash?s BEP performance is all well and good, but to turn around and claim Axl?s Budweiser ad was any less of an embarrassment is a bit of a mind bender.

Ideally I?ll never have to hear either train wreck rendition, that both Slash and Axl respectively endorsed, or find myself in a position where I?m forced to drink the canned/bottled piss they call Budweiser.

I wouldn't wish these scenarios on any of you fine folk, either.

Again, if you have such strong feelings against Budweiser, and it sounds like you do, you're not going to like Axl endorsing the product. I like Bud, and saw the ad once online, so it didn't have much of an impact on my life. Not a fan of the Black Eyed Peas and I didn't think it was one of Slash's finer moments, and I saw that one live so it had a larger impact. It was cool to see him there, but it's a stretch to say that Axl's Bud commercial equates to Slash's numerous public appearances. There's a reason South Park made an entire episode about Slash playing at malls, 8 year old birthday parties, etc.

There's nothing wrong with getting out there and pushing your brand, but people are going to comment on it, and sometimes in a negative light. Same goes for Axl. Lord knows he gets plenty of criticism. It's all par for the course.

I get it. I understand people will question/criticize anything and everything. Myself included. It?s our nature.
But you like Budweiser, the beer. How do you feel about the actual commercial?
Could you tell me with a straight face(I?ll take your word for it, you being a fellow Pats fan and all) that it was a cool commercial?
Did you enjoy that musical performance?

I?m in the same boat, neither impacted my life in any way.
If I was asked to rate them, I think they both sucked, and I?m not going to try and put a bow on either instance just because I happen to (usually) like the music these guys make.

I think the ?sellout? term is overplayed, not unlike this discussion, but it?s a free country and people can think what they want.
Some seem to want to paint Slash as the sellout, but give Axl a free pass, but you can?t have your cake and eat it too.
Unless you really want to, then I guess you can.

[LongGoneDay]

slightly off but artists certainly aren't going to make money selling music anymore....Trent Reznor interview in RS...

As an artist, there's the difficult transition from realizing that where you used to sell an item that you got X amount for ? those days are over. And the toothpaste is not going to go back in the tube. And people aren't going to suddenly want to buy CDs again and feel good about overpaying for them. That's a fact. Most of my peers have swallowed the bitter pill that I have swallowed, which is that you don't make a lot of money selling music these days. It's just the way it is. I don't think that's the way it should be, but that is the way it is. So I'm excited to accept that.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/trent-reznor-on-apple-music-other-services-left-me-feeling-lacking-20150630#ixzz3eeUaAWsj
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Yeah I'm dreading the day I can't walk into a record store. Hopefully it won't happen in my lifetime, but they are all dropping like flies in my area.

[Ginger King]

Since you got so much time on your hands, why don't you make a list of the adverts Axl's appeared in versus Slash.

By the way, the Budweiser commercial was done for Brazil's World Cup, probably the biggest TV event of last year.
It's not like he was playing with the Best Buy band or trying to sell you a VW....

/jarmo

The Best Buy band...wait, isn't that Guns n Roses? 

IMO, to say that Axl's product endorsements (didn't he also endorse headphones too?) are altruistic and Slash's are whorish doesn't make sense...unless you don't like Slash and really like Axl.  Then, it makes perfect sense.  Sure, Slash has been in the public more...but that's likely because he's still doing stuff like releasing albums, and thus it makes sense from the marketing/business side of the industry to stay relevant in the eyes of the public.

[pilferk]

slightly off but artists certainly aren't going to make money selling music anymore....Trent Reznor interview in RS...

As an artist, there's the difficult transition from realizing that where you used to sell an item that you got X amount for ? those days are over. And the toothpaste is not going to go back in the tube. And people aren't going to suddenly want to buy CDs again and feel good about overpaying for them. That's a fact. Most of my peers have swallowed the bitter pill that I have swallowed, which is that you don't make a lot of money selling music these days. It's just the way it is. I don't think that's the way it should be, but that is the way it is. So I'm excited to accept that.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/trent-reznor-on-apple-music-other-services-left-me-feeling-lacking-20150630#ixzz3eeUaAWsj
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Again, Off topic...but I think the times are a coming where we return, very much, to a "patron" model for artists.  You already see it with stuff like Kickstarter, patreon, etc. 

Because the current model? It sucks for the artist.  It's "ok" for the label..but even they are starting to sink.

Itunes is nice, in some respects, because it lets the artist monetize their art down to a granular level.  It also, really, almost eliminates the NEED for the label, and it allows the artists to very quickly turn around product to the consumer.

The flip side is: Product also gets lost in the shuffle because, lets face it, Itunes browsing capability is largely limited to what sells, and what you know to search for.  It's awful hard to find that brand new artist (absent a hit single on the radio) that might interest you. 

A more patron focused model, to support artists (especially up and coming), might work a little bit better.  Given your pool, now, with social media, web facing interactions, and an ability to basically be your own marketing tool with a modicum of html/java experience....and "getting the word out" isn't quite as difficult.  I'd LOVE to see a platform, like kickstarter (but slightly different), for musicians....and I think we'll eventually get around to that.

Anyway..back to your regularly scheduled discussion....

[pilferk]

Yeah I'm dreading the day I can't walk into a record store. Hopefully it won't happen in my lifetime, but they are all dropping like flies in my area.

You'll see it, in your lifetime (OK, maybe the collectible vinyl shops will stick around for awhile), I'd guess.

Digital has pretty much taken over.  Those of us still buying physical round objects containing music are in the vast minority, for good or ill.  And with the coming potential improvements in compression and bandwidth....lossless is probably less than a decade (and maybe less than 5 years) away from becoming the standard format.

When that happens....once you no longer need a middle man to compress/package your material for consumption...well, I think that's going to be a VERY interesting day.

[mortismurphy]

I think if Axl shot dead a bunch of kids, people would defend him here. I mean jesus, christ, come on people. He looked like a total dick in the ad.

[LongGoneDay]

Yeah I'm dreading the day I can't walk into a record store. Hopefully it won't happen in my lifetime, but they are all dropping like flies in my area.

You'll see it, in your lifetime (OK, maybe the collectible vinyl shops will stick around for awhile), I'd guess.

Digital has pretty much taken over.  Those of us still buying physical round objects containing music are in the vast minority, for good or ill.  And with the coming potential improvements in compression and bandwidth....lossless is probably less than a decade (and maybe less than 5 years) away from becoming the standard format.

When that happens....once you no longer need a middle man to compress/package your material for consumption...well, I think that's going to be a VERY interesting day.

Yea, unfortunately I think you?re right.
As much as it sucks to not be able to walk into the Coconuts, Strawberries, Sam Goody shops that used to litter the area I live, it will be especially difficult to lose the used record shops. Hoping they can find a way to stay above water.
Used to enjoy the Newbury Comics chain, but they?ve gone to shit, and moved to the malls, my least favorite place on earth.
They?re dead to me.

May as well stray further off topic..
Walked into a record shop in Manchester, NH a few weeks ago, had one of the largest and well kept collections I?ve come across, been open 30+ years. The owner, had to be in his nineties, overheard my wife asking what specific Louis Armstrong record I was looking for.
when I answered, the owner said, ?We?ve got two copies?, and pointed where they were.
He seemed to have his entire inventory memorized.

We were in there over an hour, and his only customers during that stretch.
I remember not too, too long ago having to climb over people in similar places.
The world?s gone crazy.

[jarmo]

The Best Buy band...wait, isn't that Guns n Roses? 

Maybe you forgot Slash "jamming" with Best Buy employees....

IMO, to say that Axl's product endorsements (didn't he also endorse headphones too?) are altruistic and Slash's are whorish doesn't make sense...unless you don't like Slash and really like Axl.  Then, it makes perfect sense.  Sure, Slash has been in the public more...but that's likely because he's still doing stuff like releasing albums, and thus it makes sense from the marketing/business side of the industry to stay relevant in the eyes of the public.

Nobody said this.

It's been pointed out WHY some think of Slash in a certain light. Then in his defense, some of you started bringing up Axl into the conversation. Regular defense tactics. Nothing more.
Still, you haven't exactly offered any kind of proper "defense" so to speak. The whole "Axl made a commercial" doesn't change history....

And it won't change the way he's seen by some fans. Because they saw the Budweiser commercial! And every single appearance Slash has made. 




/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

The Best Buy band...wait, isn't that Guns n Roses? 

Maybe you forgot Slash "jamming" with Best Buy employees....

IMO, to say that Axl's product endorsements (didn't he also endorse headphones too?) are altruistic and Slash's are whorish doesn't make sense...unless you don't like Slash and really like Axl.  Then, it makes perfect sense.  Sure, Slash has been in the public more...but that's likely because he's still doing stuff like releasing albums, and thus it makes sense from the marketing/business side of the industry to stay relevant in the eyes of the public.

Nobody said this.

It's been pointed out WHY some think of Slash in a certain light. Then in his defense, some of you started bringing up Axl into the conversation. Regular defense tactics. Nothing more.
Still, you haven't exactly offered any kind of proper "defense" so to speak. The whole "Axl made a commercial" doesn't change history....

And it won't change the way he's seen by some fans. Because they saw the Budweiser commercial! And every single appearance Slash has made. 




/jarmo

I can only speak for myself but for me, there is actually nothing there to defend if you are specifically discussing Slash's Superbowl performance. It was truly embarrassing. 

[jarmo]

I'm not attacking or defending anything. Just trying to make some people understand "why" their hero has been called a "sell out" or labeled as somebody who'd do anything for money. That's all.

But instead of discussing this, it's met with "but Axl made a commercial too!!!!". It's not the issue.



/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

I'm not attacking or defending anything. Just trying to make some people understand "why" their hero has been called a "sell out" or labeled as somebody who'd do anything for money. That's all.

But instead of discussing this, it's met with "but Axl made a commercial too!!!!". It's not the issue.



/jarmo

The problem here is, if you merely substituted 'Axl' for 'Slash' and used the Bud example in place of the Superbowl appearance in the above post you would have committed a gross heinous offense and be labelled a 'whiner' and a spreader of 'negativity'. It is obvious they are both examples of 'selling out'. Why the charade? Why the attempt to gloss up one, while condemning the other? Can we not just admit that they were both embarrassing?

[jarmo]

You're funny.



/jarmo

[Ginger King]

I'm not attacking or defending anything. Just trying to make some people understand "why" their hero has been called a "sell out" or labeled as somebody who'd do anything for money. That's all.

But instead of discussing this, it's met with "but Axl made a commercial too!!!!". It's not the issue.

/jarmo

FWIT, I don't think musicians get paid to play the Super Bowl, so that's not a great example of doing anything for money. 

Also, I think calling either of them a sell out is stupid.  People go on and on about how there's no money to be made in making music anymore, so therefore they're finding ways to supplement their income.  It makes perfect business sense to maintain your relevancy in the eyes of the public, either through endorsing products, granting interviews, or collaborating with other artists.  Sure, there is such a thing as being over-exposed, but I don't think any of them have reached that level, certainly not Axl.

If these guys were shelling for Sketchers or Weight Watchers, then yeah, I'd say that's pretty lame and sad.  But a beer commercial and performing at the Super Bowl are far away from that.

Again, it just boils down to your perception of them.  If you don't like them, then anything they do will be met with skepticism and ridicule.  If you do like them, then anything they do will be met with amazement and applause.

[jazjme]

Slash in SpongeBob  movie, that's all I have to say.lol

[mortismurphy]

I'm not attacking or defending anything. Just trying to make some people understand "why" their hero has been called a "sell out" or labeled as somebody who'd do anything for money. That's all.

But instead of discussing this, it's met with "but Axl made a commercial too!!!!". It's not the issue.

/jarmo

FWIT, I don't think musicians get paid to play the Super Bowl, so that's not a great example of doing anything for money. 

Also, I think calling either of them a sell out is stupid.  People go on and on about how there's no money to be made in making music anymore, so therefore they're finding ways to supplement their income.  It makes perfect business sense to maintain your relevancy in the eyes of the public, either through endorsing products, granting interviews, or collaborating with other artists.  Sure, there is such a thing as being over-exposed, but I don't think any of them have reached that level, certainly not Axl.

If these guys were shelling for Sketchers or Weight Watchers, then yeah, I'd say that's pretty lame and sad.  But a beer commercial and performing at the Super Bowl are far away from that.

Again, it just boils down to your perception of them.  If you don't like them, then anything they do will be met with skepticism and ridicule.  If you do like them, then anything they do will be met with amazement and applause.

Can you not just take it, case by case? That is what I do. Slash? Cringed at the Superbowl; didn't like Blackstreet. Liked the Jackson and Kravits duets. Liked a few songs on his albums but not all.

[jarmo]

Again, it just boils down to your perception of them.  If you don't like them, then anything they do will be met with skepticism and ridicule.  If you do like them, then anything they do will be met with amazement and applause.

Once again, you're failing to see the forest for all the trees.

Yes, it's fine to promote yourself, yes it's fine to make money since you're not making the amount you used to with record sales. Yes, yes, yes.

Does that mean you can do anything and people won't notice?

If there were equal amount of commercials to be "condemned", you might have a point. But there isn't!
So the question isn't whether or not it's right to make commercials, it's not about if it's bad to make money, it's not about how everybody sold out or how this guy dislikes that guy etc. It's always been about WHY some think Slash looks like he'll do anything for money.

The sooner you get it, the better. Now, go on, tell me how it's his right to make commercials and appear with anybody who asks....   



/jarmo

[WAR41]

Again, it just boils down to your perception of them.  If you don't like them, then anything they do will be met with skepticism and ridicule.  If you do like them, then anything they do will be met with amazement and applause.

Once again, you're failing to see the forest for all the trees.

Yes, it's fine to promote yourself, yes it's fine to make money since you're not making the amount you used to with record sales. Yes, yes, yes.

Does that mean you can do anything and people won't notice?

If there were equal amount of commercials to be "condemned", you might have a point. But there isn't!
So the question isn't whether or not it's right to make commercials, it's not about if it's bad to make money, it's not about how everybody sold out or how this guy dislikes that guy etc. It's always been about WHY some think Slash looks like he'll do anything for money.

The sooner you get it, the better. Now, go on, tell me how it's his right to make commercials and appear with anybody who asks....   



/jarmo

Then let's take the name Slash out of the equation.  Answer this for me:

A member of the Appetite for Destruction era Guns N' Roses participates in a late night talk show.  Are they a sell out for participating? 

A simple yes or no will suffice. 

[faldor]

Come on now.
Having a go at Slash?s BEP performance is all well and good, but to turn around and claim Axl?s Budweiser ad was any less of an embarrassment is a bit of a mind bender.

Ideally I?ll never have to hear either train wreck rendition, that both Slash and Axl respectively endorsed, or find myself in a position where I?m forced to drink the canned/bottled piss they call Budweiser.

I wouldn't wish these scenarios on any of you fine folk, either.

Again, if you have such strong feelings against Budweiser, and it sounds like you do, you're not going to like Axl endorsing the product. I like Bud, and saw the ad once online, so it didn't have much of an impact on my life. Not a fan of the Black Eyed Peas and I didn't think it was one of Slash's finer moments, and I saw that one live so it had a larger impact. It was cool to see him there, but it's a stretch to say that Axl's Bud commercial equates to Slash's numerous public appearances. There's a reason South Park made an entire episode about Slash playing at malls, 8 year old birthday parties, etc.

There's nothing wrong with getting out there and pushing your brand, but people are going to comment on it, and sometimes in a negative light. Same goes for Axl. Lord knows he gets plenty of criticism. It's all par for the course.

I get it. I understand people will question/criticize anything and everything. Myself included. It?s our nature.
But you like Budweiser, the beer. How do you feel about the actual commercial?
Could you tell me with a straight face(I?ll take your word for it, you being a fellow Pats fan and all) that it was a cool commercial?
Did you enjoy that musical performance?

I?m in the same boat, neither impacted my life in any way.
If I was asked to rate them, I think they both sucked, and I?m not going to try and put a bow on either instance just because I happen to (usually) like the music these guys make.

I think the ?sellout? term is overplayed, not unlike this discussion, but it?s a free country and people can think what they want.
Some seem to want to paint Slash as the sellout, but give Axl a free pass, but you can?t have your cake and eat it too.
Unless you really want to, then I guess you can.

I honestly don't remember the ad that much. I literally only watched it once, maybe twice. Thinking back though, I did not like the version of PC in the commercial one bit. If I had seen the ad incessantly on TV, maybe it would've bothered me more. Honestly, that's the only problem I had with the ad, that awful rendition of PC. But I'm not sure people would've felt much different if other versions were used. If the original AFD version was used, people would be screaming about him using material from the past. If they used a live version from the current lineup (whatever that may be), people would be screaming that they have no right being in an ad and how's it disrespectful to the original lineup.

I'm not familiar with the band that was featured in the actual ad. Maybe they're big in Brazil and that's why they were used? I don't know, and I never really gave it much thought after my initial and only view.

[jarmo]

Then let's take the name Slash out of the equation.  Answer this for me:

A member of the Appetite for Destruction era Guns N' Roses participates in a late night talk show.  Are they a sell out for participating? 

A simple yes or no will suffice. 

No.

I never claimed anybody sold out! 

I don't really have issues with people appearing in adverts or selling their songs for them. Not a problem.

Like I've repeated numerous times, I only pointed out WHY some think your guitar hero isn't exactly the poster boy for integrity for some fans. 




/jarmo