Can we put the name issue to bed...the man's words

[Ow-So7411501]

It was pure coincidence why that particular line-up gelled anyhow as you had all these different bands and line-ups. Most of the members of the appetite band had played together in some formation or another: Hollywood Rose (Axl, Izzy); New Hollywood Rose (Axl, Slash, Adler); Road Crew (Slash, Adler - briefly Duff); Guns (Axl, Izzy, Duff). It took a series of coincidental happenings for all this to fall into place. Presumably if this was all some, masterplan by Axl, it would have fallen into shape far earlier. Reportedly also (and all the members say this) when it truly fell into place was when they bonded on the Hell Tour. There was no reason before playing the Hell Tour to assume that the appetite band would have shortly disbanded like all the previous bands.

It takes a series of coincidental happenings for most things to happen.  That shouldn't take away from how important Axl was to it all.  And I'm not just Axl loving here.  With his drive and passion, I believe he would have been a huge part of any band at that time.....regardless if some of the other members were in it or not.  My one concern would probably be Izzy.  All this talk of 1/5 is bull to me.  I mean I can see how "technically", yes...1/5.  But think outside the box here.  Axl meant so much more to their success than 1/5.  Then I would say Izzy is right behind him.  Axl and Izzy we're going to be successful at that time!  Didn't matter if Duff, Slash or any other member was apart of it.  Yes, those other members played key roles and helped with the success.  But I honestly believe Axl and Izzy would have found success without them.  I don't know if I can say that for the others.   

But it does matter that Duff, Slash, and Steven were there.  None of them (including Axl) were more successful than when they were together (or at least a critical mass of them were together).  That is evident in all of their post-1993 careers. 

Also, you really can't find it within you to see that Slash was going to be successful regardless?  He is widely regarding as one of the greatest rock n roll guitarists of all time.  Pretty sure he (like Axl) would've found success without Guns.

Of course they haven't been.  But just because they haven't been as successful after 1993 doesn't lead me to believe that they ALL need or needed each other to be successful.  Times are different now and things have obviously changed, you can't make that statement.  Even if Axl had formed a band of different members back in the day, had huge success, and then broke up.  The same thing would have happened....they wouldn't have had as much success afterwards.  At that time in their lives (young, energetic, passionate, driven, out to prove the world wrong, etc.), it's my belief that Axl and Izzy were going to be successful, regardless of who they were with.  And I'm not saying Slash or Duff wouldn't have been.  But Axl and Izzy were going to be great!  And in my mind, Slash, Duff, Steven (although doing their part) stepped into a gold mine being with Axl....and Izzy.  

Your argument is totally insulting to Slash, Duff and Steven. The five of them were the right members in the right band at the right time. Chemistry is everything for a band. These five had it. Axl an Izzy were in other bands before Guns. Guess what they didn't make it. They all needed each other. They all came from different backgrounds. They had different influences. But when you brought it all together it created something magical. They have yet to replicate the magic on there own.

You can hire the most talented musicians in the world to be part of your band. Doesn't necessarily mean they will have chemistry when you put them together.

Great, that's your opinion.  I totally just insulted Slash, Duff, and Steven.  I'll stand by my comment....I BELIEVE Axl would have made it big without those guys at that time. 

Hey, you may be right. But there's no way of knowing for sure. What we do know as a FACT is that he made it due to the contributions from Slash, Duff and Steven.

[mortismurphy]

So were using works before GNR now to try and prove that Axl needed the other players?  Jesus man, you don't just wake up one day and are great.  Well, if you want to use Sweet Child as an example.....it was Axl who saw how good that was.  Slash was playing it as a joke and didn't want to do it. 

Well the point is Axl had been in three-four bands since 1983 (Rapid Fire, Hollywood Rose, New Hollywood Rose, LA Guns) and had not remotely demonstrated the levels of greatness evident almost immediately in June 1985 when the Appetite band debuted. And I say 'almost immediately' for a reason. One month after their debut gig appeared a new song written by Rose and Slash called 'Welcome to the Jungle'. Two months later: Rocket Queen. One month after that: Paradise City - you get the picture. Basically the band spent 1985-1986 writing Appetite and most people seem to agree that there is an enormous leap in quality from the Hollywood Rose material of Axl, Izzy and Chris Weber to the Appetite material with Slash, Duff and Adler.  

Slash is dammed if he does, damned if he doesn't under that sort of Axl-oriented analyse but Sweet Child is a remarkable example of just how democratic an unit they were. Slash instigated the thing with a riff to which Izzy placed the chords and Duff the bass line; Axl was meanwhile in a different room putting some poetry against it.

[draguns]

what the hell did Gilby do? Play on a bunch of cover songs....please. The very definition of hired hand. Zero songwriting credits as well.

Please don't twist my words to fit your agenda. I never said that Gilby was a songwriter. He reached the pinnacle of his career when he played with GNR. That's what I was referring to.

[Sosso]

GN'R wil always be GN'R - with or without Slash.

[Ow-So7411501]

GN'R wil always be GN'R - with or without Slash.

If your being technical, then Yes

[damnthehaters]

It was pure coincidence why that particular line-up gelled anyhow as you had all these different bands and line-ups. Most of the members of the appetite band had played together in some formation or another: Hollywood Rose (Axl, Izzy); New Hollywood Rose (Axl, Slash, Adler); Road Crew (Slash, Adler - briefly Duff); Guns (Axl, Izzy, Duff). It took a series of coincidental happenings for all this to fall into place. Presumably if this was all some, masterplan by Axl, it would have fallen into shape far earlier. Reportedly also (and all the members say this) when it truly fell into place was when they bonded on the Hell Tour. There was no reason before playing the Hell Tour to assume that the appetite band would have shortly disbanded like all the previous bands.

It takes a series of coincidental happenings for most things to happen.  That shouldn't take away from how important Axl was to it all.  And I'm not just Axl loving here.  With his drive and passion, I believe he would have been a huge part of any band at that time.....regardless if some of the other members were in it or not.  My one concern would probably be Izzy.  All this talk of 1/5 is bull to me.  I mean I can see how "technically", yes...1/5.  But think outside the box here.  Axl meant so much more to their success than 1/5.  Then I would say Izzy is right behind him.  Axl and Izzy we're going to be successful at that time!  Didn't matter if Duff, Slash or any other member was apart of it.  Yes, those other members played key roles and helped with the success.  But I honestly believe Axl and Izzy would have found success without them.  I don't know if I can say that for the others.   

But it does matter that Duff, Slash, and Steven were there.  None of them (including Axl) were more successful than when they were together (or at least a critical mass of them were together).  That is evident in all of their post-1993 careers. 

Also, you really can't find it within you to see that Slash was going to be successful regardless?  He is widely regarding as one of the greatest rock n roll guitarists of all time.  Pretty sure he (like Axl) would've found success without Guns.

Of course they haven't been.  But just because they haven't been as successful after 1993 doesn't lead me to believe that they ALL need or needed each other to be successful.  Times are different now and things have obviously changed, you can't make that statement.  Even if Axl had formed a band of different members back in the day, had huge success, and then broke up.  The same thing would have happened....they wouldn't have had as much success afterwards.  At that time in their lives (young, energetic, passionate, driven, out to prove the world wrong, etc.), it's my belief that Axl and Izzy were going to be successful, regardless of who they were with.  And I'm not saying Slash or Duff wouldn't have been.  But Axl and Izzy were going to be great!  And in my mind, Slash, Duff, Steven (although doing their part) stepped into a gold mine being with Axl....and Izzy.  

Your argument is totally insulting to Slash, Duff and Steven. The five of them were the right members in the right band at the right time. Chemistry is everything for a band. These five had it. Axl an Izzy were in other bands before Guns. Guess what they didn't make it. They all needed each other. They all came from different backgrounds. They had different influences. But when you brought it all together it created something magical. They have yet to replicate the magic on there own.

You can hire the most talented musicians in the world to be part of your band. Doesn't necessarily mean they will have chemistry when you put them together.

Do you really believe nowadays any former member could replicate the kind of magic GNR had when they were young, energetic, motivated, hungry, careless, etc???  I don't care if they were still together....it wouldn't happen.  And you don't see it with anyone else either.  Yeah, Pearl Jam is still rockin....so are other bands.  But it's not and will never be like it was.  Comparing nowadays to back then is impossible. 

[mortismurphy]

You seem to be (incorrectly in my opinion) assigning the Appetite band's excellence solely on their rawness and hunger. Are you saying Slash and Axl could never work together unless they were homeless, living out of a garage while drinking drinking Nightrain. Estranged and Civil War are obviously not a product of those times neither would a hypothetical late '90s album. Plenty of bands express their rawness and desire in their youth, only to mature and still produce greatness later on. Think, The Stones Some Girls, Queen Innuendo, DC Black Ice. Heck, even Metallica's Black album is not exactly a product of a Bay Area garage band any longer and that is that band at their commercial peak. Some bands have a trajectory of slow maturity.

[mortismurphy]

what the hell did Gilby do? Play on a bunch of cover songs....please. The very definition of hired hand. Zero songwriting credits as well.

And he has done nothing of any real note post- GNR.

Bit mean spirited really. Since GN'R Gilby has released four solo albums, an EP, a live album, a greatest hits album and contributed to two super groups as well as producing for Nancy Sinatra among others. How many solo albums have you released?

[damnthehaters]

You seem to be (incorrectly in my opinion) assigning the Appetite band's excellence solely on their rawness and hunger. Are you saying Slash and Axl could never work together unless they were homeless, living out of a garage while drinking drinking Nightrain. Estranged and Civil War are obviously not a product of those times neither would a hypothetical late '90s album. Plenty of bands express their rawness and desire in their youth, only to mature and still produce greatness later on. Think, The Stones Some Girls, Queen Innuendo, DC Black Ice. Heck, even Metallica's Black album is not exactly a product of a Bay Area garage band any longer and that is that band at their commercial peak. Some bands have a trajectory of slow maturity.

Let's disect Oh-sos comment.  He mentioned how all together, GNR produced magic back in the day and have yet to achieve any of that magic on their own.  What does he mean by magic?  Is he just talking about the albums?  I took it as all of it together.  The albums, the rawness, the care free attitudes, the energy, etc.  I could be wrong, but that's the way I took it.  So yes, I don't think you see other bands matching their "magic" from back in the day either.  I'm not talking about just albums.  Of course bands can put out a good album later in their lives.  But in terms of having everything else....no.  

And if he is talking about albums.  I'm one that argues that if Slash and Duff were still in the band when Chinese Democracy came out....it would have been perceived completely different.  The media and people all over didn't give Axl a fair listen by any means.  And I will stick to those comments till I die.  Chinese to me, was just as much of a transition from the Illusions than the Illusions were from Appetite.  The Illusions were good albums, but when they came out, they were pretty different from Appetite and turned some people off.  Now a days, people clump all that work together just because it was a different lineup.  In my mind, Chinese is another good album.  So what's different from the "magic" on the Illusions to the "magic" on Chinese?

[TheBaconman]

You seem to be (incorrectly in my opinion) assigning the Appetite band's excellence solely on their rawness and hunger. Are you saying Slash and Axl could never work together unless they were homeless, living out of a garage while drinking drinking Nightrain. Estranged and Civil War are obviously not a product of those times neither would a hypothetical late '90s album. Plenty of bands express their rawness and desire in their youth, only to mature and still produce greatness later on. Think, The Stones Some Girls, Queen Innuendo, DC Black Ice. Heck, even Metallica's Black album is not exactly a product of a Bay Area garage band any longer and that is that band at their commercial peak. Some bands have a trajectory of slow maturity.

Let's disect Oh-sos comment.  He mentioned how all together, GNR produced magic back in the day and have yet to achieve any of that magic on their own.  What does he mean by magic?  Is he just talking about the albums?  I took it as all of it together.  The albums, the rawness, the care free attitudes, the energy, etc.  I could be wrong, but that's the way I took it.  So yes, I don't think you see other bands matching their "magic" from back in the day either.  I'm not talking about just albums.  Of course bands can put out a good album later in their lives.  But in terms of having everything else....no.  

And if he is talking about albums.  I'm one that argues that if Slash and Duff were still in the band when Chinese Democracy came out....it would have been perceived completely different.  The media and people all over didn't give Axl a fair listen by any means.  And I will stick to those comments till I die.  Chinese to me, was just as much of a transition from the Illusions than the Illusions were from Appetite.  The Illusions were good albums, but when they came out, they were pretty different from Appetite and turned some people off.  Now a days, people clump all that work together just because it was a different lineup.  In my mind, Chinese is another good album.  So what's different from the "magic" on the Illusions to the "magic" on Chinese?

What was raw about the uyi albums? 

Two great albums out together buy a few millionars, living in mansions, trading tapes.

If the old line up stare together.  They would have released some great music to this day   

But it would not be raw

[mortismurphy]

You seem to be (incorrectly in my opinion) assigning the Appetite band's excellence solely on their rawness and hunger. Are you saying Slash and Axl could never work together unless they were homeless, living out of a garage while drinking drinking Nightrain. Estranged and Civil War are obviously not a product of those times neither would a hypothetical late '90s album. Plenty of bands express their rawness and desire in their youth, only to mature and still produce greatness later on. Think, The Stones Some Girls, Queen Innuendo, DC Black Ice. Heck, even Metallica's Black album is not exactly a product of a Bay Area garage band any longer and that is that band at their commercial peak. Some bands have a trajectory of slow maturity.

Let's disect Oh-sos comment.  He mentioned how all together, GNR produced magic back in the day and have yet to achieve any of that magic on their own.  What does he mean by magic?  Is he just talking about the albums?  I took it as all of it together.  The albums, the rawness, the care free attitudes, the energy, etc.  I could be wrong, but that's the way I took it.  So yes, I don't think you see other bands matching their "magic" from back in the day either.  I'm not talking about just albums.  Of course bands can put out a good album later in their lives.  But in terms of having everything else....no.  

And if he is talking about albums.  I'm one that argues that if Slash and Duff were still in the band when Chinese Democracy came out....it would have been perceived completely different.  The media and people all over didn't give Axl a fair listen by any means.  And I will stick to those comments till I die.  Chinese to me, was just as much of a transition from the Illusions than the Illusions were from Appetite.  The Illusions were good albums, but when they came out, they were pretty different from Appetite and turned some people off.  Now a days, people clump all that work together just because it was a different lineup.  In my mind, Chinese is another good album.  So what's different from the "magic" on the Illusions to the "magic" on Chinese?

Stones Some Girls, Crazy Horse Ragged Glory, DC Black Ice, Queen Innuendo? All albums recapturing a magic of a (perceived) greater earlier period.

I do not agree about the media not given Axl a fair shot. CD actually got quite good reviews. I do not remember many bad reviews at the time. Most of the press were given it 4/5 and grades like that. There was even an article I read just recently which claimed that 'cd is one of those underrated albums which will be grow in stature''. It was the listeners who turned their back on the album.

Magic? I suppose magic is subjective. For me the Illusions and CD are nowhere near as good as Appetite. You can attribute the success of Appetite to a 'magic' of the players but I would also cite the production and the songs which are superior than Illusion's or CD's production and songs. Illusion has all these hideous overdubs and too many clangers like Shotgun Blues, My World and Get In The Ring. CD is a complete mess and also has too many poor songs. To listen to Appetite is a lesson in consistency. Arguably the album's only weak link is Anything Goes.

[Ginger King]

And if he is talking about albums.  I'm one that argues that if Slash and Duff were still in the band when Chinese Democracy came out....it would have been perceived completely different.  The media and people all over didn't give Axl a fair listen by any means.  And I will stick to those comments till I die.  Chinese to me, was just as much of a transition from the Illusions than the Illusions were from Appetite.  The Illusions were good albums, but when they came out, they were pretty different from Appetite and turned some people off.  Now a days, people clump all that work together just because it was a different lineup.  In my mind, Chinese is another good album.  So what's different from the "magic" on the Illusions to the "magic" on Chinese?

Agree.  IMO, CD would have been accepted more by the public as a GnR album if Slash and Duff were on it...it would have gotten more air play, exposure, promotion, etc.  Besides Axl, no one really knew the other members...what little was known was that when CD was released many of the members that helped create it were gone, so that just added to the disjointed nature of it.  Axl going MIA didn't really help much either.

[JAEBALL]

And if he is talking about albums.  I'm one that argues that if Slash and Duff were still in the band when Chinese Democracy came out....it would have been perceived completely different.  The media and people all over didn't give Axl a fair listen by any means.  And I will stick to those comments till I die.  Chinese to me, was just as much of a transition from the Illusions than the Illusions were from Appetite.  The Illusions were good albums, but when they came out, they were pretty different from Appetite and turned some people off.  Now a days, people clump all that work together just because it was a different lineup.  In my mind, Chinese is another good album.  So what's different from the "magic" on the Illusions to the "magic" on Chinese?

Agree.  IMO, CD would have been accepted more by the public as a GnR album if Slash and Duff were on it...it would have gotten more air play, exposure, promotion, etc.  Besides Axl, no one really knew the other members...what little was known was that when CD was released many of the members that helped create it were gone, so that just added to the disjointed nature of it.  Axl going MIA didn't really help much either.

I think we are all in agreement that if the same exact songs were molded by Slash Duff and Izzy, then the album would have been received better overall. However those three men were not capable of making Chinese Democracy, those songs would have sounded completely different making the whole argument moot.

Hence... different band... different album...different everything... well except the man, the myth , the legend himself. W.A.R.

[Ginger King]

And if he is talking about albums.  I'm one that argues that if Slash and Duff were still in the band when Chinese Democracy came out....it would have been perceived completely different.  The media and people all over didn't give Axl a fair listen by any means.  And I will stick to those comments till I die.  Chinese to me, was just as much of a transition from the Illusions than the Illusions were from Appetite.  The Illusions were good albums, but when they came out, they were pretty different from Appetite and turned some people off.  Now a days, people clump all that work together just because it was a different lineup.  In my mind, Chinese is another good album.  So what's different from the "magic" on the Illusions to the "magic" on Chinese?

Agree.  IMO, CD would have been accepted more by the public as a GnR album if Slash and Duff were on it...it would have gotten more air play, exposure, promotion, etc.  Besides Axl, no one really knew the other members...what little was known was that when CD was released many of the members that helped create it were gone, so that just added to the disjointed nature of it.  Axl going MIA didn't really help much either.

I think we are all in agreement that if the same exact songs were molded by Slash Duff and Izzy, then the album would have been received better overall. However those three men were not capable of making Chinese Democracy, those songs would have sounded completely different making the whole argument moot.

Hence... different band... different album...different everything... well except the man, the myth , the legend himself. W.A.R.

IDK...who would've thought all of them were capable of making UYI after AFD.  UYI is much different (lyrically and stylistically) than AFD.  I look at CD as a progression of Guns from UYI, much like UYI was a progression from AFD.  There are many songs on CD (TWAT, Better, Prostitute, Maddy, TIL) that (IMO) carry over the UYI feel.

[LongGoneDay]

The transitions aren?t comparable, because AFD to Illusions was the sound of a band expanding it?s sound.
The transition from Illusions to Chinese is the sound of an entirely new band, sans Axl and Dizzy. Axl kept the name, hence the confusion.
It?s not the sound of evolution. At best you could call it a gut job, but in reality it?s an entirely new project.

Slash and Izzy?s name being attached to the album wasn?t going to change much if the music was released as it is.
Chinese doesn?t sound like anything Slash or Izzy would be interested in playing.
Slash and Izzy styles are more loose, and they are fans of less polished production.
There is nothing resembling raw about Chinese Democracy.

People can hear the difference. It may say Guns N? Roses on the cover, but it doesn?t sound like the Guns N? Roses they remember.
You don?t need to read the booklet to find out Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven and Matt aren?t on it.

Slapping their names in the booklet wasn?t going to change how the music was received.

[jarmo]

The transitions aren?t comparable, because AFD to Illusions was the sound of a band expanding it?s sound.
The transition from Illusions to Chinese is the sound of an entirely new band, sans Axl and Dizzy. Axl kept the name, hence the confusion.
It?s not the sound of evolution. At best you could call it a gut job, but in reality it?s an entirely new project.

And who was there "driving" the expansion of the sound from AFD to UYI?
I'm not saying he was solely responsible. But do you honestly think the UYI albums would've included certain ground breaking (for GN'R at least) songs if it wasn't for Axl?

Keeping that in mind, with him still in the band, and speculating on a hypothetical what if scenario, it's possible the old band could've taken a similar step from UYI to whatever would've been next.
It's also possible it would've been more of an AFD sounding album. We can only speculate.




/jarmo

[LongGoneDay]

The transitions aren?t comparable, because AFD to Illusions was the sound of a band expanding it?s sound.
The transition from Illusions to Chinese is the sound of an entirely new band, sans Axl and Dizzy. Axl kept the name, hence the confusion.
It?s not the sound of evolution. At best you could call it a gut job, but in reality it?s an entirely new project.

And who was there "driving" the expansion of the sound from AFD to UYI?
I'm not saying he was solely responsible. But do you honestly think the UYI albums would've included certain ground breaking (for GN'R at least) songs if it wasn't for Axl?

Keeping that in mind, with him still in the band, and speculating on a hypothetical what if scenario, it's possible the old band could've taken a similar step from UYI to whatever would've been next.
It's also possible it would've been more of an AFD sounding album. We can only speculate.




/jarmo

I think Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, and Steven were collectively the driving force behind the expansion in sound.
Then Matt and Dizzy came along to lend a hand where needed.

Do I think UYI would have included certain groundbreaking songs without Axl? Of course not.
But I don?t believe we?d have them without Slash, Izzy etc either.

I don?t see a scenario in which Slash and Izzy are all of a sudden on board with the squeaky clean production, since that was a major bone of contention when they were together, and seeing what they?ve produced since.

That said I agree with your overall points. We will never know what direction they would have taken had they been able to reach common ground.

[Ow-So7411501]

It was pure coincidence why that particular line-up gelled anyhow as you had all these different bands and line-ups. Most of the members of the appetite band had played together in some formation or another: Hollywood Rose (Axl, Izzy); New Hollywood Rose (Axl, Slash, Adler); Road Crew (Slash, Adler - briefly Duff); Guns (Axl, Izzy, Duff). It took a series of coincidental happenings for all this to fall into place. Presumably if this was all some, masterplan by Axl, it would have fallen into shape far earlier. Reportedly also (and all the members say this) when it truly fell into place was when they bonded on the Hell Tour. There was no reason before playing the Hell Tour to assume that the appetite band would have shortly disbanded like all the previous bands.

It takes a series of coincidental happenings for most things to happen.  That shouldn't take away from how important Axl was to it all.  And I'm not just Axl loving here.  With his drive and passion, I believe he would have been a huge part of any band at that time.....regardless if some of the other members were in it or not.  My one concern would probably be Izzy.  All this talk of 1/5 is bull to me.  I mean I can see how "technically", yes...1/5.  But think outside the box here.  Axl meant so much more to their success than 1/5.  Then I would say Izzy is right behind him.  Axl and Izzy we're going to be successful at that time!  Didn't matter if Duff, Slash or any other member was apart of it.  Yes, those other members played key roles and helped with the success.  But I honestly believe Axl and Izzy would have found success without them.  I don't know if I can say that for the others.   

But it does matter that Duff, Slash, and Steven were there.  None of them (including Axl) were more successful than when they were together (or at least a critical mass of them were together).  That is evident in all of their post-1993 careers. 

Also, you really can't find it within you to see that Slash was going to be successful regardless?  He is widely regarding as one of the greatest rock n roll guitarists of all time.  Pretty sure he (like Axl) would've found success without Guns.

Of course they haven't been.  But just because they haven't been as successful after 1993 doesn't lead me to believe that they ALL need or needed each other to be successful.  Times are different now and things have obviously changed, you can't make that statement.  Even if Axl had formed a band of different members back in the day, had huge success, and then broke up.  The same thing would have happened....they wouldn't have had as much success afterwards.  At that time in their lives (young, energetic, passionate, driven, out to prove the world wrong, etc.), it's my belief that Axl and Izzy were going to be successful, regardless of who they were with.  And I'm not saying Slash or Duff wouldn't have been.  But Axl and Izzy were going to be great!  And in my mind, Slash, Duff, Steven (although doing their part) stepped into a gold mine being with Axl....and Izzy.  

Your argument is totally insulting to Slash, Duff and Steven. The five of them were the right members in the right band at the right time. Chemistry is everything for a band. These five had it. Axl an Izzy were in other bands before Guns. Guess what they didn't make it. They all needed each other. They all came from different backgrounds. They had different influences. But when you brought it all together it created something magical. They have yet to replicate the magic on there own.

You can hire the most talented musicians in the world to be part of your band. Doesn't necessarily mean they will have chemistry when you put them together.

Do you really believe nowadays any former member could replicate the kind of magic GNR had when they were young, energetic, motivated, hungry, careless, etc???  I don't care if they were still together....it wouldn't happen.  And you don't see it with anyone else either.  Yeah, Pearl Jam is still rockin....so are other bands.  But it's not and will never be like it was.  Comparing nowadays to back then is impossible. 

No way to really know if they could replicate past magic. But I'm sure whatever they came up with would be good. They are all very talented musicians who've compiled good stuff on there own.

[jarmo]

I don?t see a scenario in which Slash and Izzy are all of a sudden on board with the squeaky clean production, since that was a major bone of contention when they were together, and seeing what they?ve produced since.

That said I agree with your overall points. We will never know what direction they would have taken had they been able to reach common ground.

Slash has been fine with many things since he quit GN'R that you don't necessarily associate with him. VR was a bit of a departure for him. For example.

I don't see GN'R as an AC/DC kind of band that has been pigeonholed and can't try something different.
Even the old band.




/jarmo

[Ow-So7411501]

You seem to be (incorrectly in my opinion) assigning the Appetite band's excellence solely on their rawness and hunger. Are you saying Slash and Axl could never work together unless they were homeless, living out of a garage while drinking drinking Nightrain. Estranged and Civil War are obviously not a product of those times neither would a hypothetical late '90s album. Plenty of bands express their rawness and desire in their youth, only to mature and still produce greatness later on. Think, The Stones Some Girls, Queen Innuendo, DC Black Ice. Heck, even Metallica's Black album is not exactly a product of a Bay Area garage band any longer and that is that band at their commercial peak. Some bands have a trajectory of slow maturity.

Let's disect Oh-sos comment.  He mentioned how all together, GNR produced magic back in the day and have yet to achieve any of that magic on their own.  What does he mean by magic?  Is he just talking about the albums?  I took it as all of it together.  The albums, the rawness, the care free attitudes, the energy, etc.  I could be wrong, but that's the way I took it.  So yes, I don't think you see other bands matching their "magic" from back in the day either.  I'm not talking about just albums.  Of course bands can put out a good album later in their lives.  But in terms of having everything else....no.  

And if he is talking about albums.  I'm one that argues that if Slash and Duff were still in the band when Chinese Democracy came out....it would have been perceived completely different.  The media and people all over didn't give Axl a fair listen by any means.  And I will stick to those comments till I die.  Chinese to me, was just as much of a transition from the Illusions than the Illusions were from Appetite.  The Illusions were good albums, but when they came out, they were pretty different from Appetite and turned some people off.  Now a days, people clump all that work together just because it was a different lineup.  In my mind, Chinese is another good album.  So what's different from the "magic" on the Illusions to the "magic" on Chinese?

What I meant by magic was in terms of the music that they created. The image and the attitude was who they were. I think a big part of the connection that they had with the public was that they were the real deal. There were a lot of posers out there but these guys were real. Cant fake that because the public will see through it.

In terms of your other point, CD would've sounded considerably different with Slash and Duff in the fold. I agree that the media didn't give CD a fair listen but I don't think it was all to do with Slash and Duff not being in the band. The album became legendary in music circles for being the most expensive album made. It also took a long time to make. So by the time it came out it was built up so much that a lot of people expected nothing short of perfection.