In a perfect world, what would the ideal situation be?

[pilferk]

They both are.

Pearl Jam and Bon Jovi fill basketball/hockey arenas nationwide, every time out.  No problem.

And I'm pretty sure they would both qualify as a rock bands.

Wonder what their secret is?  Maybe pick their brains.

I also probably should have added Dave Matthews.....

[Ginger King]

Only bullet proof rock act is Bon Jovi???  Really.  How about Pearl Jam??  Every show is sold out, probably even more than Bon Jovi.

They both are.

Pearl Jam and Bon Jovi fill basketball/hockey arenas nationwide, every time out.  No problem.

And I'm pretty sure they would both qualify as a rock bands.

Wonder what their secret is?  Maybe pick their brains.

I think Bon Jovi's an easy answer: Their appeal to a very broad demographic.  Have you ever been to a Bon Jovi show? I have (protesting the entire way).

I'd say MOST rock concerts I go to, with some exceptions (Green Day, for instance) skews VERY strongly toward males.  Would you all say that's pretty fair?

With Bon Jovi, I'd say the audience is most definitely much more mixed.  In fact, I'd say that the females were almost certainly in the majority, by a fair bit.

It's also a pretty milquetoast, safe, version of a rock and roll show.  It's like a Disney version of a rock band....I'd take my kids to one of those shows.

Yeah...because who wants to see girls at concerts...

Also, couldn't modern day GnR be considered a safe version of a rock and roll show?  Is there anything dangerous and unpredictable about them (besides the setlist  )?  I'd argue it's more a function of age.  There shouldn't be anything dangerous from guys in their 50's not named Charlie Sheen...

[D-GenerationX]

Also, couldn't modern day GnR be considered a safe version of a rock and roll show?  Is there anything dangerous and unpredictable about them (besides the setlist  )?  I'd argue it's more a function of age.  There shouldn't be anything dangerous from guys in their 50's not named Charlie Sheen...

I would think so.  Older act, older crowd, etc.

[sky dog]

I don't know if safe is the word...certainly not like Bon Jovi. Mr Stinson and Mr Rose still have a little piss and vinegar in them.

[pilferk]

Yeah...because who wants to see girls at concerts...

Also, couldn't modern day GnR be considered a safe version of a rock and roll show?  Is there anything dangerous and unpredictable about them (besides the setlist  )?  I'd argue it's more a function of age.  There shouldn't be anything dangerous from guys in their 50's not named Charlie Sheen...

I'm not complaining about the fact I was surrounded by girls. I'm saying...most rock acts don't have, and probably can't attain, that kind of appeal.  And, quite frankly, given the material Bon Jovi cranks out....I'm not really sure I want most rock acts to go that route, either.

I'd disagree about GnR.  I would not bring my 8 to 10 year old to a GnR show.  The material, alone, is "dangerous".

But add to that the show, itself....I mean, I know Axl's not biting the heads off chickens and stuff...but he's swearing his ass off, flipping the bird, there is a fair bit of sexual connotation (obvious enough to not go over my kids head), and  the crowd is certainly much more "edgy" than at a Bon Jovi show.  The interplay between the band, while hilarious, is certainly not PG (and some of it might push PG-13).  And...we've all heard the rants when shit goes down.  Some not THAT far removed.

And finally...reputations sticks with you long after it's actually relevant.  Witness the complaints about "late shows", even now.  Or references to Axl's old stage antics.  Or old interviews.  Like it or not, those perceptions are still around.  

Look, you want honest and unbridled (and probably offensive) opinions on Bon Jovi: Bon Jovi was, is , and always be a milquetoast pretty boy singing pop-rock backed by a (formerly) pretty band who can play pretty easy chord progressions and keep a beat.  He's easy on the eyes, the material is easy on the ears, doesn't make you think too much, and is sorta sappy. It seems to drive some people nuts (my wife among them).

And it sounds remarkably like the pop music scene, today.......

YMMV.

Don't get me wrong.  They've been ridiculously successful doing it.  They deserve kudos for their success because I'm not sure there is another band who "gets" branding and image as well as they do (OK, maybe KISS).  They draw like flies are drawn to horseshit, for christ's sake, and sell tickets at astronomical prices, to boot.

But, as for "picking their brain"...I'm not sure that's a viable option.  I don't think most bands could do, or would want to do, what Bon Jovi has done to be successful.  

[pilferk]

I don't know if safe is the word...certainly not like Bon Jovi. Mr Stinson and Mr Rose still have a little piss and vinegar in them.

Yeah, again, I'd bring my 8 year old to a Bon Jovi show.  They're almost as "safe" (maybe safer, now) as one of those boy bands my oldest daughter fawns over (One Direction?!).

You might consider GnR "safe" compared to their days as "The worlds most dangerous band"...but they're not THAT kinda "safe".

[D-GenerationX]

I don't know if safe is the word...certainly not like Bon Jovi. Mr Stinson and Mr Rose still have a little piss and vinegar in them.

It's a standard rock show these days.

The only element of danger there would be Axl throwing a tantrum and storming off stage.

But, so long as it hasn't happened in the past 15 minutes, we supposed to pretend it never, ever, ever did.

[pilferk]

I don't know if safe is the word...certainly not like Bon Jovi. Mr Stinson and Mr Rose still have a little piss and vinegar in them.

It's a standard rock show these days.

The only element of danger there would be Axl throwing a tantrum and storming off stage.

But, so long as it hasn't happened in the past 15 minutes, we supposed to pretend it never, ever, ever did.

If GnR are the "standard rock show", then Bon Jovi is the version you'd (almost literally...like, at the Fall Concert series at EPCOT? Nothing in a Bon Jovi show would be out of place there) see at Disney World.

[D-GenerationX]

You might consider GnR "safe" compared to their days as "The worlds most dangerous band"...but they're not THAT kinda "safe".

So let's approach this another way.

Where is the danger?  Where is the risk?

[pilferk]

So let's approach this another way.

Where is the danger?  Where is the risk?

Read the response just before the one you quoted.

[D-GenerationX]

If GnR are the "standard rock show", then Bon Jovi is the version you'd (almost literally...like, at the Fall Concert series at EPCOT) see at Disney World.

I think they are largely the same at this stage of the game.

You just see some sort of value at running down Bon Jovi, while somehow maintaining that a 50 plus year old Axl Rose is a cutting edge wildman.

To each their own, I suppose.

[D-GenerationX]

So let's approach this another way.

Where is the danger?  Where is the risk?

Read the response just before the one you quoted.

Just did.

The questions remain open ones.

[pilferk]

Just did.

The questions remain open ones.

I don't think it can be explained any better than that.  Sorry, it can't.

If your point is you no longer feel like you're physically in danger, due to a riot breaking out...well,no.

But that's not what the rest of us, I think, are talking about when we talk about "dangerous".

How about this: A GnR show would certainly be rated R.  Bon Jovi MIGHT push PG....when he shakes his ass (yes, he does that) to get a reaction from the crowd.

[jarmo]

You're arguing with a Bon Jovi fan boy.



/jarmo

[Ginger King]

Just did.

The questions remain open ones.

I don't think it can be explained any better than that.  Sorry, it can't.

If your point is you no longer feel like you're physically in danger, due to a riot breaking out...well,no.

But that's not what the rest of us, I think, are talking about when we talk about "dangerous".

How about this: A GnR show would certainly be rated R.  Bon Jovi MIGHT push PG....when he shakes his ass (yes, he does that) to get a reaction from the crowd.

Hmm?you raise some interesting points.  Granted, some the lyrics aren?t fitting for kids, and probably the strippers at the Vegas shows are a no-no, but the elements that made them the World?s Most Dangerous Band don?t really exist anymore.  I?m not saying that?s a bad thing, btw.  Just that, age has taken away that element.  

One of your (many) gripes about Bon Jovi is that their lyrics aren?t thought provoking.  Funny, because I?ve never thought of GnR as the thinking man?s band.  ?Turn around bitch I got a use for you? really only has one meaning?although, another point for no kids.

[pilferk]

I think they are largely the same at this stage of the game.

You just see some sort of value at running down Bon Jovi, while somehow maintaining that a 50 plus year old Axl Rose is a cutting edge wildman.

To each their own, I suppose.

I'm not actually trying to run them down.  They've been very successful and deserve kudos for it.   I explained why I think they have appeal.  Then I explained that appeal doesn't "work" for me...and if that's what you have to do to fill arenas for 30 show tours, and charge $200 bucks a ticket....I'm not sure that's going to work for every band out there.  Not every band can, or wants, to do it.  Not with there material, not with their stage act, not with their image and brand.  

If you're saying all bands should be "Bon Jovi"...we'll have to agree to disagree.  

[D-GenerationX]

How about this: A GnR show would certainly be rated R.  Bon Jovi MIGHT push PG....when he shakes his ass (yes, he does that) to get a reaction from the crowd.

So, we're talking profane lyrical content, then.  Or a stripper in a cage, sidestage.

Wow.  Ballsy.

I trust you consider Andrew Dice Clay to be the baddest motherfucking comic to ever walk the Earth, then.

[D-GenerationX]

If you're saying all bands should be "Bon Jovi"...we'll have to agree to disagree.  

They are very different bands and I would not like one to emulate the other, save a few exceptions.

I'd be ecstatic if Axl the artist or his "management" could meet a band like Bon Jovi even halfway there in terms of professionalism, work ethic, respect for their fans and just outright competency.

I'm not telling you I want them to copy the style of material.  But perhaps running their business like they had a fucking clue what they were doing wouldn't be the worst thing that ever happened to us as a fanbase.

[pilferk]

Hmm?you raise some interesting points.  Granted, some the lyrics aren?t fitting for kids, and probably the strippers at the Vegas shows are a no-no, but the elements that made them the World?s Most Dangerous Band don?t really exist anymore.  I?m not saying that?s a bad thing, btw.  Just that, age has taken away that element.  

One of your (many) gripes about Bon Jovi is that their lyrics aren?t thought provoking.  Funny, because I?ve never thought of GnR as the thinking man?s band.  ?Turn around bitch I got a use for you? really only has one meaning?although, another point for no kids.

I think you have to view a lot of GnR's lyrics through the lens of the times.  It's a pretty gritty depiction of life in L.A., on the strip, in the 80's.  In today's world, in parts, it's patently mysogenistic.  The cursing, alone (especially live), gets you an R rating.

I think GnR's lyrics are a LOT deeper than most, if not all, of what we've seen out of Bon Jovi.  Jungle, My Michelle, Brownstone....all gritty depictions of addiction and useary of your fellow human being.  Paradise City, Civil War, Knockin' on Heaven's door (yes, I know...Dylan), and even Estranged are all pretty powerful cultural commentarries.  SCOM, Patience, November Rain...to me, much deeper, and more honest, looks at love (and loss), which are favorite Bon Jovi topics.

As with all things, YMMV.  I'm aware D-X is going to object, given he likes them.  Fair enough.

[D-GenerationX]

I'm a lifelong Bon Jovi fan, but will tell you straight up GNR has better lyrics.

Just way, way, way fewer songs.