In a perfect world, what would the ideal situation be?

[pilferk]

  Its akin to starting your summer reading 3 days before the school year starts.

By the by...going into my freshman year in HS: Anna Karenina, Man of La Mancha, and The Collected Works of Edgar Allen Poe (which, admittedly, I was more than passingly familiar with) in 3 1/2 days...and that includes the write up/essay questions due.

[pilferk]

If its another "up close and personal" tour <wink, wink>, that's probably all they can swing.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I'm pretty sure they can sell out arenas in the biggest markets in the US. If they played a smaller tour including Florida (one city), New York, Chicago, Texas (one city) and Los Angeles, I'm sure they could sell out big arenas in all those places. It will harder for them to sell out arenas if they play 20-30 cities in the US, you'll lose a lot of people traveling in to the bigger cities then.

New York would probably be one of the few places where they still could sell out a big arena as part of a bigger US tour.

And that's the reality for most of what the folks here would consider rock tours, right now (aka, NOT Lourdes, Ed Sheeran, etc):

You're not doing 40 city tours in North America.  You're doing 20 (maybe)..and that includes at least 3-5 stops in Canada (or 8, if you're AC/DC).  New York, LA, Chicago, Boston, Dallas, Miami and Seattle are your go to's.  Detroit and San Fran are possibles.  You can probably pick out 2 to 3 more, where, as a specific band, you might have drawn well (but far enough away from other markets to not canibalize your attendance).

That's not just GnR, guys.  It's now Metallica, AC/DC, and most of the rest of the "untouchables", too.

[D-GenerationX]

  Its akin to starting your summer reading 3 days before the school year starts.

By the by...going into my freshman year in HS: Anna Karenina, Man of La Mancha, and The Collected Works of Edgar Allen Poe (which, admittedly, I was more than passingly familiar with) in 3 1/2 days...and that includes the write up/essay questions due.

Yeah, I'm a fast reader too.  But, not really the point I was going for, Johnny Humblebrag.

[Ginger King]

If its another "up close and personal" tour <wink, wink>, that's probably all they can swing.

I don't think that's necessarily true. I'm pretty sure they can sell out arenas in the biggest markets in the US. If they played a smaller tour including Florida (one city), New York, Chicago, Texas (one city) and Los Angeles, I'm sure they could sell out big arenas in all those places. It will harder for them to sell out arenas if they play 20-30 cities in the US, you'll lose a lot of people traveling in to the bigger cities then.

New York would probably be one of the few places where they still could sell out a big arena as part of a bigger US tour.

And that's the reality for most of what the folks here would consider rock tours, right now (aka, NOT Lourdes, Ed Sheeran, etc):

You're not doing 40 city tours in North America.  You're doing 20 (maybe)..and that includes at least 3-5 stops in Canada (or 8, if you're AC/DC).  New York, LA, Chicago, Boston, Dallas, Miami and Seattle are your go to's.  Detroit and San Fran are possibles.  You can probably pick out 2 to 3 more, where, as a specific band, you might have drawn well (but far enough away from other markets to not canibalize your attendance).

That's not just GnR, guys.  It's now Metallica, AC/DC, and most of the rest of the "untouchables", too.

Except Crue and Van Halen are doing that plus much more.  VH is playing about 40 shows (all in the U.S.) and Crue is all over the place.  I'm assuming these bands are closer to Guns on the rock spectrum than Ed Sheeran.  

[D-GenerationX]

That's not just GnR, guys.  It's now Metallica, AC/DC, and most of the rest of the "untouchables", too.

Do you see "up close and personal" tours in their futures?

I do not.

[Ginger King]

That's not just GnR, guys.  It's now Metallica, AC/DC, and most of the rest of the "untouchables", too.

Do you see "up close and personal" tours in their futures?

I do not.

No.  You play what the market dictates.  Spin it however you want, but it is what it is.

[pilferk]

Yeah, I'm a fast reader too.  But, not really the point I was going for, Johnny Humblebrag.

Yeah, I know, I know.  But...I was going for a wry implication, there, too...along with a little Off topic levity.

What you, and I, and most people would think an insurmountable hurdle, or crazy bit of self-destructive procrastination......isn't for everyone.

I don't know if it is for Axl and the band.....I don't count Axl out of anything, ever.  He's too unpredictable, and has offered up too many surprises (of both types), in the past.

He's exactly the type to rise, like a phoenix, from the ashes....or...not.

[pilferk]

That's not just GnR, guys.  It's now Metallica, AC/DC, and most of the rest of the "untouchables", too.

Do you see "up close and personal" tours in their futures?

I do not.

If they felt like it...sure.

Both have played smaller venue gigs, in the recent past.

The point being: We've seen ONE GnR "up close an personal" tour.  ONE does not a trend, make.

You think it was 'cause they had to.  Fair enough.

There is equal evidence to say it's 'cause that's what they felt like doing.

Both ways can be profitable. Both ways can be fun.  Bands of all shapes and sizes have done it both ways. (wink wink nudge nudge).

[pilferk]

Except Crue and Van Halen are doing that plus much more.  VH is playing about 40 shows (all in the U.S.) and Crue is all over the place.  I'm assuming these bands are closer to Guns on the rock spectrum than Ed Sheeran.  

I'm interested to see how that works out for both bands, in terms of sales and profitability.

If they both do well, maybe it's a good sign for things to come.

I can still find pairs of good seats (13th row, center for one show, fifth row center for another) for VH, for shows 2 weeks away, in a 20k seat arena.

Crue looks in better shape, early....so that's something.  The whole "Final Tour" thing might work wonders for them. We'll see!

Metallica losing money on their tour LAST YEAR was a kick in the teeth, for me.  I didn't think that would/could EVER happen.  AC/DC doing, what...10 U.S. dates? was another.  If you look at most other acts that we'd consider "rock", who have toured the past 3 years....the results are relatively glum (with, maybe, the possible exception of Bon Jovi).

You're seeing really big acts pivot on how they tour, now.  Not all of them...but the one's that aren't are hit and miss (with a lot more misses than hits).

[D-GenerationX]

That's not just GnR, guys.  It's now Metallica, AC/DC, and most of the rest of the "untouchables", too.

Do you see "up close and personal" tours in their futures?

I do not.

No.  You play what the market dictates.  Spin it however you want, but it is what it is.

Very much agreed.

[D-GenerationX]

The point being: We've seen ONE GnR "up close an personal" tour.  ONE does not a trend, make.

You think it was 'cause they had to.  Fair enough.

There is equal evidence to say it's 'cause that's what they felt like doing.

As I said earlier, the next U.S. tour tells the tale, I should think.

Whether UCAP was a lark...or the new reality.

[pilferk]

No.  You play what the market dictates.  Spin it however you want, but it is what it is.

I agree with that middle bit.

But the market effects EVERYONE.  Not JUST GnR. And vice versa.

I'm not saying GnR are Metallica and AC/DC.   I'm saying "If Metallica and AC/DC are feeling the effects, EVERYONE is feeling the effects".

And you apply them all the way down "the list".

[D-GenerationX]

I'm not saying GnR are Metallica and AC/DC.   I'm saying "If Metallica and AC/DC are feeling the effects, EVERYONE is feeling the effects".

And you apply them all the way down "the list".

Neither band will be doing UCAP tours in club type venues.

Not sure why you keep coming back to them, as if that's in their futures.

If you want to tell me that Metallica can't fill the EnormoDome anymore, fine.  Not really sure what that has to do with GNR playing to 2 or 3,000 people.

[pilferk]

Neither band will be doing UCAP tours in club type venues.

Not sure why you keep coming back to them, as if that's in their futures.

If you want to tell me that Metallica can't fill the EnormoDome anymore, fine.  Not really sure what that has to do with GNR playing to 2 or 3,000 people.

Read what I wrote, again.  You want to turn this into a discussion that it's not.

I'm not saying they will be forced to....like I know you think GnR was "forced to", last time.  I mean, both bands could, if they wanted.  Both have done strings of small venue shows before, for one reason or another. It would NOT shock me to see, for example, AC/DC do some historic theaters in the UK come winter time (provided they can get their personel situation sorted to their satisfaction).

I'm saying if THOSE TWO BANDS, who, up until the past couple of years I would have told you were UNTOUCHABLE in the U.S., in terms of ticket sales, are feeling the effects of rock's inability to sell tickets...then everyone else down the pecking list will, too.  THOSE TWO BANDS are the giant, money printing, monolithic entities that have, for decades, pretty much been bulletproof when it comes to live music.

If AC/DC's management and promoters...who, FYI, are amongst THE BEST in the business....told them they would be better doing 10-ish dates in the US, and spending more time in Canada and EU and Oz.....that tells you what they think of the current scene in the US: It's not profitable to do big, 40 show, arena tours touching every city from coast to coast.

Metallica lost money on their tour, LAST YEAR.  And you can't point to any of the factors, other than sheer public interest/economic factors, that people point at when talking about GnR's attendance.  They had new material, they've been in the public eye, they have a relatively stable line up, etc, etc, etc.  They just couldn't sell enough tickets, per venue, to make money.

My point was, is, and will be: If those guys are feeling the effects of the market and the way it's swung heavily toward live POP, TOP 40, acts (cause Taylor Swift, Katy Perry, and their ilk are selling tickets like gangbusters, at prices that make me cringe), then EVERYONE is, to some extent.  You can see it in the Billboard tour numbers that come out.   No matter where you think GnR is down that line....they're going to feel the effects, too.

And, when "judging" their popularity based on their touring options, their ticket sales, or their decisions about where/when/how to tour....you need to view it through that lens.  I don't think anyone, here, thinks it's still 1992.

Now someone, somewhere, somehow, will bemoan that people are always making excuses for GnR.  Whatever.  The above is REALITY.  There is ample evidence to support it.  The only truly "bulletproof" rock act currently active might be Bon Jovi.  We'll get to see, when the numbers come in, if the Stones still are (god, I hope they are). Hell, even they only did 14 dates, in the states.  I chalk that up to endurance, though, more than market...but who knows.

I sometimes, half jokingly, wonder if a reunited Beatles could do 40 shows in the US and sell them all out. It's ALMOST that kinda bad for live rock music, right now. ALMOST.

[jarmo]

Neither band will be doing UCAP tours in club type venues.

When was the last time Metallica toured the US properly? There's your answer.
Remember when they tried to run a festival and it ended up costing them?



/jarmo

[evander1129]

Only bullet proof rock act is Bon Jovi???  Really.  How about Pearl Jam??  Every show is sold out, probably even more than Bon Jovi.

[evander1129]

And much better music and show

[D-GenerationX]

Only bullet proof rock act is Bon Jovi???  Really.  How about Pearl Jam??  Every show is sold out, probably even more than Bon Jovi.

They both are.

Pearl Jam and Bon Jovi fill basketball/hockey arenas nationwide, every time out.  No problem.

And I'm pretty sure they would both qualify as a rock bands.

Wonder what their secret is?  Maybe pick their brains.

[pilferk]

Only bullet proof rock act is Bon Jovi???  Really.  How about Pearl Jam??  Every show is sold out, probably even more than Bon Jovi.

MAYBE. Note my qualifier, too...my whole diatribe is really only related to the U.S.

They did 12 dates in the US (aside from the Bridge School benefit), in 2014.

Granted, they did 23 in 2013.

In that context, they probably are, because I think that's the new reality. Big acts can do 20-ish shows. Smaller can do 10 to 15.

But, I don't know, right now.  I honestly don't.  Maybe.  But I don't see them doing any 30 city US tours any time soon, either.  I just don't.

And I agree on the quality of the music and show, from Pearl Jam.  Saw them in Oct, 2013.  REALLY good show.  FYI: you can read "Bon Jovi", every time I type it, with sarcasm and disgust.  I'm not a fan...

[pilferk]

Only bullet proof rock act is Bon Jovi???  Really.  How about Pearl Jam??  Every show is sold out, probably even more than Bon Jovi.

They both are.

Pearl Jam and Bon Jovi fill basketball/hockey arenas nationwide, every time out.  No problem.

And I'm pretty sure they would both qualify as a rock bands.

Wonder what their secret is?  Maybe pick their brains.

I think Bon Jovi's an easy answer: Their appeal to a very broad demographic.  Have you ever been to a Bon Jovi show? I have (protesting the entire way).

I'd say MOST rock concerts I go to, with some exceptions (Green Day, for instance) skews VERY strongly toward males.  Would you all say that's pretty fair?

With Bon Jovi, I'd say the audience is most definitely much more mixed.  In fact, I'd say that the females were almost certainly in the majority, by a fair bit.

It's also a pretty milquetoast, safe, version of a rock and roll show.  It's like a Disney version of a rock band....I'd take my kids to one of those shows.