In a perfect world, what would the ideal situation be?

[D-GenerationX]

It's so great to come back and read the same stuff about the same topics written by the same people saying the same things.

Especially when so much of it has not only been rehashed into oblivion, but, in some cases, demonstrated to be so wrongheaded based on actual "real world" events, situations, conditions, etc.

Anyway...carry on.

And you figure a post like this is the best way to combat it?

As opposed to, say, pushing an existing conversation in a different direction?  Or starting a new topic altogether?

I guess I'm curious what the roadblocks are that are preventing such courses of action.  But, perhaps once identified, we can all put our heads together and try and find a way forward.

I'm just thinking out loud here, really.  There are no bad ideas in a brainstorming session, people.

Yup, I think it's the best way.

I totally disagree.

Your post reminded me of the guy that calls into the radio station and stays on hold for 45 minutes just to tell the host he doesn't like the day's topic.

Then the host invariably says that the floor is his and he can introduce something else.  At which point, the caller stammers and nothing new is said.

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from pushing things in another direction in any existing thread, or starting a new one altogether.  Those are both proactive solutions.

"Not this again"...but with nothing fresh in it's place?  That's accomplishing something?

[pilferk]

I totally disagree.

Your post reminded me of the guy that calls into the radio station and stays on hold for 45 minutes just to tell the host he doesn't like the day's topic.

Then the host invariably says that the floor is his and he can introduce something else.  At which point, the caller stammers and nothing new is said.

Except:

1) I didn't wait to float my thoughts into the ether.
2) There is no host and this isn't anyone's "show".
3) Introducing a new topic, thought, bent, or opinion hasn't worked previously...so why should I expect it to be any different this time?

So, in essence, your analogy really doesn't have anything to do with what happened, was said, or what's going on here.

This would be a lot more like being in a group, and having the same two guys having the debate over whether Magic Johnson or Larry Bird was the better player. In 2015, for the 30000th time since the late 80's.  And one of the other members of the group saying "It's getting a little stale, guys...lets talk about the Finals that just wrapped up".  And this guy, for 20 years, has been doing the same thing....along with other members of the group.   At some point....when every conversation gets derailed back to Johnson/Bird....you realize introducing new topics doesn't change things.  It's just one more thing to get derailed.  So finally you just point out that it's stale, and stop engaging those members of the group. Right?

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from pushing things in another direction in any existing thread, or starting a new one altogether.  Those are both proactive solutions.

I'm not trying to be proactive, any more than the current discussions are pro- or reactive to anything going on.  They're just the typical derailments.  I'm venting frustration and, truthfully, disgust.

"Not this again"...but with nothing fresh in it's place?  That's accomplishing something?

Yup, and I explained what in the ensuing previous response.

[D-GenerationX]

We simply disagree then, it seems.  Ain't no thing.

[Ginger King]

But that assumes your FACTS are true.  Rock is not dead, although that's used as a convenient excuse to justify not releasing anything.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2014-year-rock-roll-article-1.2126036

Granted, the article takes some liberties into what they classify as rock, but the state of rock isn't as dire as some project it to be.

A LOT of liberties.  Do you consider Ed Sheeran and Lourde rock? 'Cause the charts do. And other artists like them.  The article is, to be perfectly honest, crap.

We discussed this, previously.  The only way you can make "rock" look "good" is by changing it's definition, and who you include under the umbrella.  I'm not willing to do that, just to try to make something look better than it is.

Tranditional rock isn't "dead".  But it's not selling like it was. It's not what it was 5 years ago (which is what I actually SAID, to be clear).  Metallica lost money LAST YEAR touring the U.S.  AC/DC has a super abbreviated NA tour this year...and I suspect that has a lot to do with the economics.  You see other traditional rock acts doing very similar things: Smaller venues, smaller tours, or both.

Those are economic realities.  Bury your head in the sand if you'd like, point to articles that redefine what you, me, and everyone else born prior to 2000 would actually call rock and roll, but none of that really changes things.

And, again, we're rehashing...so I'm out.  Feel free to continue on.

But somehow, someway (any Snoop fans?) AC/DC and Van Halen have released albums in these trying times.  Christ, Judas Priest just did.  Why should it matter if rock is dead or thriving...isn't it all about the quality of the music?  Waiting until rock sales increase isn't really a point in the artistic integrity column.

Look, fewer people go to football games now.  Doesn't mean the Cowboys stop playing (although I wish they would).

Sorry if this all just re-hashes things...believe me, I'd much rather talk about what's next for the band.  However, since the band's on a hiatus, and Dizzy just had his birthday, there's not much in the "new band info." dept. to speak of.

[D-GenerationX]

But somehow, someway (any Snoop fans?)
 

I've often said that you come up with funky ass shit like, every single day.

[pilferk]

But somehow, someway (any Snoop fans?) AC/DC and Van Halen have released albums in these trying times.  Christ, Judas Priest just did.  Why should it matter if rock is dead or thriving...isn't it all about the quality of the music?  Waiting until rock sales increase isn't really a point in the artistic integrity column.

I was (and am) speaking more toward the touring side of things, not the album release side, and discussions of why GnR is doing Vegas (and how it pertains to their popularity vis a vis Slash's popularity).

BUT, on the album release side....you have a limited number of release slots, and a limited number of resources to promote sed releases, and a limited number of resources to promote. schedule, and physically release sed material.

And you have a HUGE, monolithic, label picking and choosing what comes out.

So..while sales might not effect the artists reasoning for release, it might effect their opportunities.

Even in the cases you pointed out above...the sales of those albums were NOT to the level they were 5, 10, 15 years ago.  Part of that is the health of the music industry and album sales in general.  But even considering that...those rock releases didn't remarkably sell well.  The back catalogs sell better.

Again, I want to point out...this isn't GnR specific.  I'm NOT saying "it's all the labels fault"that we don't have a new GnR album.  But there are economic realities that get totally ignored by a good chunk of folks, even when they are pointed out.

And are ignored again when they bring up the same point 3 weeks, 3 months, 3 years later.

Look, fewer people go to football games now.  Doesn't mean the Cowboys stop playing (although I wish they would).

Um...nope.  Not really.  Not to the kind of extent we're talking here.  This would be like the Cowboys going from 60k filled stadiums to 20k attendance.  They'd lose money. The league would lose money.  And they'd have to rethink how and why and when they do things.

Sorry if this all just re-hashes things...believe me, I'd much rather talk about what's next for the band.  However, since the band's on a hiatus, and Dizzy just had his birthday, there's not much in the "new band info." dept. to speak of.

So...why do people feel the need for there to be "noise" if the "noise" is 20 year old rehashes of rehashes of rehashes of rehashes?

I just don't think we need that.  YMMV.

[D-GenerationX]

So...why do people feel the need for their to be "noise" if the "noise" is 20 year old rehashes of rehashes of rehashes of rehashes?

I just don't think we need that.  YMMV.

To play devil's advocate of sorts, isn't this also a rehash?

There are certain topics you aren't happy with.  You haven't exactly been shy about reminding us.  You sure have been repetitive, however.

Is it really necessary for you weigh in with how unhappy you are with the same stuff?  Under your very premise, isn't that an established fact and nothing new?

Seems to me like when certain things bubble back up to the top, we could all sort of mentally say to ourselves "I bet pilferk is not digging this".

One could also argue that your chronic unhappiness over such isn't exactly affecting change either.

[pilferk]

So...why do people feel the need for their to be "noise" if the "noise" is 20 year old rehashes of rehashes of rehashes of rehashes?

I just don't think we need that.  YMMV.

To play devil's advocate of sorts, isn't this also a rehash?

Yup, it sure is. But since I'm the one complaining about rehases...and you guys are all seemingly OK with it...I guess I'm only really annoying myself.  And I call that "Life", so....I'm good.

There are certain topics you aren't happy with.  You haven't exactly been shy about reminding us.  You sure have been repetitive, however.

Is it really necessary for you weigh in with how unhappy you are with the same stuff?  Under your very premise, isn't that an established fact and nothing new?

Not necessary. Cathartic, though.

Seems to me like when certain things bubble back up to the top, we could all sort of mentally say to ourselves "I bet pilferk is not digging this".

Feel free to suffix all such posts exactly that way.

One could also argue that your chronic unhappiness over such isn't exactly affecting change either.

I'm not the Lorax. I don't speak for the Trees.  And I'm certainly under no illusion that it will effect actual change.  The only way that happens is if there are a BUNCH of us, who feel the same way, and we all leave the rehashes devoid of input...no matter how much it pains. Then you've got people screaming into the ether.  Maybe THAT effects change.  I freely admit that, in the past, I've been part of the problem by engaging, and letting the rehashes perpetuate.

I'm committed to not doing that. Only me.

Others can make their own decision.

[D-GenerationX]

Yup, it sure is. But since I'm the one complaining about rehases...and you guys are all seemingly OK with it...I guess I'm only really annoying myself.  And I call that "Life", so....I'm good.

Oh, don't bother me none.  Whatever gets talks about, gets talked about.  You run a (somewhat) open discussion forum, that's just what happens.

[Ginger King]

But somehow, someway (any Snoop fans?)
 

I've often said that you come up with funky ass shit like, every single day.

Ha!  Dare I say (and this certainly won't get me any Karma points) that I think our musical preferences are pretty similar.  I have AFD and The Chronic in my Top 5 albums.

[D-GenerationX]

Ha!  Dare I say (and this certainly won't get me any Karma points) that I think our musical preferences are pretty similar.  I have AFD and The Chronic in my Top 5 albums.

Early Death Row (1992-95, before Dr. Dre bounced) is still my favorite rap stuff ever.

[TheBaconman]

Ha!  Dare I say (and this certainly won't get me any Karma points) that I think our musical preferences are pretty similar.  I have AFD and The Chronic in my Top 5 albums.

Early Death Row (1992-95, before Dr. Dre bounced) is still my favorite rap stuff ever.

Early gangster rap was fun to listen too in its time.   The west/east rap war was fun for a white kid from Canada to witness.  I am looking forward to the new NWA movie that is coming out.   I was a huge Easy-E fan.

What I used to love about early guns was that Axl seemed to be on the cutting edge of new; soon to be trendy bands.   Seemed he would go out of his way to promote smaller artists and show his live to them by wearing some of there swag on stage.  We are talking nin, nirvana, Janes addiction and ice t. 

I remember a interview from the late 90s when Axl said he was into current bands such as limp bizzkat and Lincon park

Then just acopile years ago he gave a interview where he said he mostly listens to older stuff these days.......     He struck me as a artist that was/is influenced from current music as well as stuff he grew up with.   I just hope he wasn't lost that drive to deal out new music and artists.....    There is still lot of great music out there

[D-GenerationX]

Yeah, Axl was the first person I heard talking about Nine Inch Nails.

While I was still listening to Skid Row.

[EmilyGNR]

Ha!  Dare I say (and this certainly won't get me any Karma points) that I think our musical preferences are pretty similar.  I have AFD and The Chronic in my Top 5 albums.

Early Death Row (1992-95, before Dr. Dre bounced) is still my favorite rap stuff ever.

Early gangster rap was fun to listen too in its time.   The west/east rap war was fun for a white kid from Canada to witness.  I am looking forward to the new NWA movie that is coming out.   I was a huge Easy-E fan.

What I used to love about early guns was that Axl seemed to be on the cutting edge of new; soon to be trendy bands.   Seemed he would go out of his way to promote smaller artists and show his live to them by wearing some of there swag on stage.  We are talking nin, nirvana, Janes addiction and ice t. 

I remember a interview from the late 90s when Axl said he was into current bands such as limp bizzkat and Lincon park

Then just acopile years ago he gave a interview where he said he mostly listens to older stuff these days.......     He struck me as a artist that was/is influenced from current music as well as stuff he grew up with.   I just hope he wasn't lost that drive to deal out new music and artists.....    There is still lot of great music out there

A bit off-Topic but I loved old-school rap and bands like Bones, Thugs & Harmony, NWA and Body Count.

NIN too, up until With Teeth.

[TheBaconman]

Ha!  Dare I say (and this certainly won't get me any Karma points) that I think our musical preferences are pretty similar.  I have AFD and The Chronic in my Top 5 albums.

Early Death Row (1992-95, before Dr. Dre bounced) is still my favorite rap stuff ever.

Early gangster rap was fun to listen too in its time.   The west/east rap war was fun for a white kid from Canada to witness.  I am looking forward to the new NWA movie that is coming out.   I was a huge Easy-E fan.

What I used to love about early guns was that Axl seemed to be on the cutting edge of new; soon to be trendy bands.   Seemed he would go out of his way to promote smaller artists and show his live to them by wearing some of there swag on stage.  We are talking nin, nirvana, Janes addiction and ice t. 

I remember a interview from the late 90s when Axl said he was into current bands such as limp bizzkat and Lincon park

Then just acopile years ago he gave a interview where he said he mostly listens to older stuff these days.......     He struck me as a artist that was/is influenced from current music as well as stuff he grew up with.   I just hope he wasn't lost that drive to deal out new music and artists.....    There is still lot of great music out there

A bit off-Topic but I loved old-school rap and bands like Bones, Thugs & Harmony, NWA and Body Count.

NIN too, up until With Teeth.

All good music there!

Nin live performance at Woodstock 94 is is something that opened my eyes to them and most people I think.   Axl was into them years before that.   That's pretty cool

[pilferk]

2 live Crew

Sorry, couldnt resist...

[EmilyGNR]

2 live Crew

Sorry, couldnt resist...

Can't help but think all the controversy they stirred up only served to sell more albums.

Sort of like the PMRC warning stickers on Albums did.

[jarmo]

I would agree if you are talking about anything up to and including, around 2011. Now I see them about on par. These little casinos are fairly embarrassing. There is also that tour which was sexed up as 'up close and personal' to disguise sagging sales. Do you believe Axl could headline another Rio now? You have to admit, his stock has fallen quite drastically the last few years.

Slash's recent gig in Stockholm was at an amusement park.
Are you gonna make a puppet show joke about it?


/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

I would agree if you are talking about anything up to and including, around 2011. Now I see them about on par. These little casinos are fairly embarrassing. There is also that tour which was sexed up as 'up close and personal' to disguise sagging sales. Do you believe Axl could headline another Rio now? You have to admit, his stock has fallen quite drastically the last few years.

Slash's recent gig in Stockholm was at an amusement park.
Are you gonna make a puppet show joke about it?


/jarmo

Did you see the show? 

[draguns]

Well Slash will be playing at a food truck festival in NJ. So it's kinda interesting to see him play there . As far as rap, you can't beat old school Public Enemy.