GN'R has re-entered the Billboard 200

[pilferk]

Anyone notice anything never seems to re-enter the charts?

Despite the increased exposure to 40-50,000 people each night?

I know where you're driving this bus.

But it's not exactly easy to find, right? We can agree on that?  Yes, itunes has it. So does amazon.  But that's a far cry from GH and AFD and UYI (at the very least the compilation of it) being available pretty much everywhere that sells music in the entire country.

You can make whatever point you wanna make here...that's fine. But....we're not comparing apples to apples, exactly, here.

See?

I knew there was an explanation.

(unrelated : who the hell doesn't have AFD at this point?)

Not "an explanation".

Something different to consider.

An explanation would be the sum total of why.

But surely you have to acknowledge there is a difference here that you can't NOT consider. Right?

[D-GenerationX]

But surely you have to acknowledge there is a difference here that you can't NOT consider. Right?

I think the fairest way to put things is that I consider your explanation as vaild as you likely do my rationale that anyone was ever going to dig it already did and it's mark has already been made.

I think that's fair.

[pilferk]

"I wouldn't be surprised if 'Chinese Democracy' experiences something of a resurgence once it gets more exposure to people that may have missed it or never gave it a chance."

All the time.  Some variation of that is said, all the time.

There are no consequence free statements in life.  People follow up.

Except..you didn't actually disprove the first statement.

A resurgance doesn't mean it's going to enter the top 200.  At most, this is getting exposure to a few hundred thousand people.  Some already own the album.  Some aren't going to be interested at all.

But...say 5k people, of 55k, decide to pick up the album based on the few songs they heard at the show.  That's still a resurgance, of sorts. No?  Because given everything we know, you have to think sales of CD are the equivalent of a zero line on a graph right now.  

[pilferk]

I think the fairest way to put things is that I consider your explanation as vaild as you likely do my rationale that anyone was ever going to dig it already did and it's mark has already been made.

I think that's fair.

I think they are two possible scenarios.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying I think mine is any more likely than yours, either.

But absent hard numbers, you sort of have to acknowledge both exist.

[pilferk]

(unrelated : who the hell doesn't have AFD at this point??)

My daugther just bought their whole catalog for her 14th birthday, on itunes.  I offered to rip the CD's for her, but she wanted to "own" them on her account for the future.

There are people out there who have been exposed, but don't own, or replace, their albums. Not everyone does itunes match, or wants to rip cds...and re-buy stuff in digital format.  Or buy it on a different account or platform for transportability.

And people lose track of shit all the time.

So...lots of folks.

[D-GenerationX]

But...say 5k people, of 55k, decide to pick up the album based on the few songs they heard at the show.  That's still a resurgance, of sorts. No?  Because given everything we know, you have to think sales of CD are the equivalent of a zero line on a graph right now.  

Very true.

But GNR has also gotten more exposure in 2016 than in <insert recent past number of years here> combined, correct?

Reviews are everywhere.  All mention the album.  Social media is filled with GNR stuff.  Presumably, it has helped return the band to the public consciousness, certainly more so than any other time recently.  Is it inconceivable this might lead people to checkout the album they missed?

Wasn't that always the theory?

Supplemental question, how many units does it take break into the absolute back end of the top 200?  Seriously, I'm asking.

[pilferk]

Very true.

But GNR has also gotten more exposure in 2016 than in <insert recent past number of years here> combined, correct?

Reviews are everywhere.  All mention the album.  Social media is filled with GNR stuff.  Presumably, it has helped return the band to the public consciousness, certainly more so than any other time recently.  Is it inconceivable this might lead people to checkout the album they missed?

Wasn't that always the theory?

I don't think the expectation was that it would suddenly get every GnR fan, past and present, who passed buying CD (for whatever their reasons) to suddenly fall in love with it and run out and snap it up (especially considering it's not exactly easy to find...so even if it tickles your brain, you're not getting an "ah ha" 3 days later at Wally world when you're picking up milk).

I think the point was more that MORE people would be exposed, and maybe come to appreciate those songs, when they were actually put in front of them with the guys they "like" on stage together.  That the CD era stuff would become less....IDK...apathetically viewed. I don't think anyone thought CD was suddenly going to be AFD. Or even UYI.  But it would get "more" exposure, and sorta grow on folks from there.

I think that might still happen.  We'll see if CD and Better and TIL stick around if the BAND sticks around for awhile.

TIL, fyi, got a HUGE reaction at MetLife.  People might  not have been singing along, but they appreciated the vocals and solo.

Supplemental question, how many units does it take break into the absolute back end of the top 200?  Seriously, I'm asking.

I think it's a moving target.  I think I've seen it as low as 20 or 30k, and as high as 50k-ish, comparing to Soundscan for the Hot 100 (Edited, because I mis-read your first question as the Hot 100, not 200).  But it's been awhile since I actually looked.  Given album sales tanking, those numbers could be lower, now.

Edit: I think when CD reentered the Hot 200 in 2011, it was on sales of about 6k? Something like that? Might have been as low as 3k? To hit 198? So I guess that gives you some idea, above, now, too.

I honestly don't know what "counts" and what doesn't anymore, either, to Billboard.

[Spirit]

(unrelated : who the hell doesn't have AFD at this point??)

Young people I guess. Then, on the other hand, young people really don't buy CD's do they?

[C0ma]

I was wandering around a mall the other day waiting to pickup an iPhone 6 that my wife had fixed. While I was killing time I walked into NME (because I hadn't been in a CD/DVD specific store in forever). They had a display of horrible quality GnR T-Shirts and other merch, but there was a sign saying that you got a free copy of Chinese Democracy with any Guns N Roses purchase. I LOL'd... they had 1 copy in the CD section available for $3.99

[TheBaconman]

Anyone notice anything never seems to re-enter the charts?

Despite the increased exposure to 40-50,000 people each night?

I know where you're driving this bus.

But it's not exactly easy to find, right? We can agree on that?  Yes, itunes has it. So does amazon.  But that's a far cry from GH and AFD and UYI (at the very least the compilation of it) being available pretty much everywhere that sells music in the entire country.

You can make whatever point you wanna make here...that's fine. But....we're not comparing apples to apples, exactly, here.

I'm not saying it would...we all know the album did not sell as well as most of their other albums did.  It's a horse thats been beaten to death. We've argued the why's and what fors and we're NEVER going to get on the same page here.

But I likewise think, given everything involved, comparing it to their other material isn't exactly apt, either.

I by has every topic you do not like.  Been talked to death ?

Yet you comment on it? 

[TheBaconman]

Anyone notice anything never seems to re-enter the charts?

Despite the increased exposure to 40-50,000 people each night?

I know where you're driving this bus.

But it's not exactly easy to find, right? We can agree on that?  Yes, itunes has it. So does amazon.  But that's a far cry from GH and AFD and UYI (at the very least the compilation of it) being available pretty much everywhere that sells music in the entire country.

You can make whatever point you wanna make here...that's fine. But....we're not comparing apples to apples, exactly, here.

I'm not saying it would...we all know the album did not sell as well as most of their other albums did.  It's a horse thats been beaten to death. We've argued the why's and what fors and we're NEVER going to get on the same page here.

But I likewise think, given everything involved, comparing it to their other material isn't exactly apt, either.

The album CD.

Should now be freely available to any market that seas it fit to sell it

Some markets it sold pretty good in how are the ongoing sales?   

[The Wight Gunner]

Anyone notice anything never seems to re-enter the charts?

Despite the increased exposure to 40-50,000 people each night?

I know where you're driving this bus.

But it's not exactly easy to find, right? We can agree on that?  Yes, itunes has it. So does amazon.  But that's a far cry from GH and AFD and UYI (at the very least the compilation of it) being available pretty much everywhere that sells music in the entire country.

You can make whatever point you wanna make here...that's fine. But....we're not comparing apples to apples, exactly, here.

I'm not saying it would...we all know the album did not sell as well as most of their other albums did.  It's a horse thats been beaten to death. We've argued the why's and what fors and we're NEVER going to get on the same page here.

But I likewise think, given everything involved, comparing it to their other material isn't exactly apt, either.

The album CD.

Should now be freely available to any market that seas it fit to sell it

Some markets it sold pretty good in how are the ongoing sales?   

I'd like it to be given away via some publications, with a few bonus tracks on, maybe something with Slash and Duff on.

[FreddieJames]

I don't know if this also has an influence on the Billboard charts but Spotify plays have been up over the last 6 months. SCOM has an average of 2 million plays per WEEK, which is a lot for an almost 30 year old song. Also the rest of their plays on Spotify have definitely increased over the last 6 months. Also, Novermber Rain is the most played rock song on YouTube.

So all in all, the cd sales don't really mean that much anymore UNLESS online plays are part of the Billboard lists. But for a rock band inactive for such a long time they are extremely successful on YouTube and Spotify (way more plays than the average rock band) that hasn't had a hit in 20 years.

[pilferk]

Anyone notice anything never seems to re-enter the charts?

Despite the increased exposure to 40-50,000 people each night?

I know where you're driving this bus.

But it's not exactly easy to find, right? We can agree on that?  Yes, itunes has it. So does amazon.  But that's a far cry from GH and AFD and UYI (at the very least the compilation of it) being available pretty much everywhere that sells music in the entire country.

You can make whatever point you wanna make here...that's fine. But....we're not comparing apples to apples, exactly, here.

I'm not saying it would...we all know the album did not sell as well as most of their other albums did.  It's a horse thats been beaten to death. We've argued the why's and what fors and we're NEVER going to get on the same page here.

But I likewise think, given everything involved, comparing it to their other material isn't exactly apt, either.

I by has every topic you do not like.  Been talked to death ?

Yet you comment on it? 

I'm simply laying out the history of the discussion and providing context to this one.  We've had this same talk, before. Many, many, many times.

It's not that I don't like the topic...it's perfectly fine to discuss.  But the fact is..there are SOOOO many mitigating factors that without hard numbers you come to two cats chasing their own tails.  We'll make the same points, over and over, as we have in the past.  There's not really any new information. And the correlation drawn by DX, while a perfectly fine opinion, wasn't a knock out of the original posters point.

And at the end of all this, we'll end up in the same spot: There's too many plausible "what ifs", that we don't know or control, to ever get a  definitive answer.  Which is fine, so long as everyone on board keeps that in mind.

[pilferk]

The album CD.

Should now be freely available to any market that seas it fit to sell it

Some markets it sold pretty good in how are the ongoing sales?   

Define freely available?

If you work at it, and you're actively trying to buy it...yes, you can make that purchase. Itunes and amazon sell it. And no, I'm not saying it takes herculean effort..but you have to go out of your way to sort of actively try to find it (or get lucky and just want to buy it from one of those two outlets).

But in terms of "Went to a show, heard a couple songs, maybe I'll check it out....ohhh, I'm at Walmart, lets see if I can find it, nope not there, ah too much work" impulse buy type stuff? Nope.  And I'd offer that the % of those 50k fans at shows who might be interested..whatever that is...if they were thinking about buying it...it would probably be that sort of scenario.  Because I'd say, if they don't own CD, are exposed to it, and want to buy it...I would say odds are they were in the more casual (normal??) side of fandom.  It's not the hadcore or long time fans that would find themselves in that position. THEY'VE made their choice, one way or the other.

AFD, UYI, and GH are much more accessible that way.  And yes, one of the reasons is that they're strong sellers.  There is definitely a chicken/egg thing at play here.

Itunes is the great equalizer, obviously, since pretty much anyone can grab the album that way, or buy single tracks (which might be more likely if you dig just the songs you heard at the show).

But I no longer know (and don't pay as much attention) to what is, and isn't, tracked by Billboard as album sales any more. I think they added digital stuff back in 2014 (itunes...not sure about spotify, etc).

[Voodoochild]

There are tons of people who dismiss the album because of the lineup, not because they actually dislked it that much. But the thing is that at the end of the day, Slash is still not on CD. Even with the live performances, its still a hard sell for sure. Its not like the casual fan who heard Double Talkin Jive at the show and thought "wow, I guess I'll look for this one" and then easily find it on iTunes or Spotify on the Illusion next to other classics. The person wouldnt have prejudice and think "hey, this is from THAT album, I bet it sucks".

I dont care if CD didnt sell as much as the others. But I still think those live performances are the best way to expose people to those new songs with a little more open heart. Of all the reviews I read about those several gigs that already happened, I guess only one had anything actually bad to say about CD songs (cant even remember which one). And remember that those stadium gigs are filled with casuals who dont even know Coma (or Perfect Crime, if they ever play it again).

[pilferk]

Just for fun, here's amazon current Sales ranks (Album, Physical Sales Rank, MP3 Sales Rank, MP3 Category..because AZ doesn't bucket GnR the same way across their albums):

GH,         222,       NO MP3,        NO MP3   
AFD,       371,        83,               Rock
UYI 1,   1737,          7,               Hard Rock
CD,       6448,    1603,            Rock
UYI 2,   9793,    2534,               Rock
Lies,      9938,        33,               Hard Rock
TSI,     16261,   3818,               Rock

If I get ambitious, I'll write a script to fill out a spreadsheet and track them every few days (or every week) to see how it trends.

[Voodoochild]

Is this a weekly sales?

The conclusion here is obvious: Duff alone is pushing TSI sales to be the best selling of them all.

[The Wight Gunner]

I don't know if this also has an influence on the Billboard charts but Spotify plays have been up over the last 6 months. SCOM has an average of 2 million plays per WEEK, which is a lot for an almost 30 year old song. Also the rest of their plays on Spotify have definitely increased over the last 6 months. Also, Novermber Rain is the most played rock song on YouTube.

So all in all, the cd sales don't really mean that much anymore UNLESS online plays are part of the Billboard lists. But for a rock band inactive for such a long time they are extremely successful on YouTube and Spotify (way more plays than the average rock band) that hasn't had a hit in 20 years.

I agree, and since the sales of  CD are going to be nominal, that's why I said give it away with bonus tracks added, the publication would pay for this, and recoup the fee via sales from their publication. The bonus material could simply be live versions of songs from CD from the current tour, it fills all boxes; Album gets coverage, the ney sayers get to hear current line-up and confirms some form of validity (that's up to people to sort out, but the fact Slash and Duff are playing can't be denied) of the album....

[pilferk]

Is this a weekly sales?

The conclusion here is obvious: Duff alone is pushing TSI sales to be the best selling of them all.

I'm not sure when they "reset".  I know it can change a couple times a day..I think it's just their overall current rank at the moment you check.

The lower the number, the worse the sales. It's a RANK, not the number of copies.  I should have been clearer.

For Example, GH at 222 means that it is the 222nd highest selling album (of ALL physical album copies being sold) on Amazon.  It is GnR's best selling, currently, album.

Ditto with the MP3 ranks (GH doesn't have an MP3 version on amazon).  The issue there with comparing is that Lies and UYI 1 get bucketed into different categories (Hard Rock) than the other albums (Rock). I have no idea why.