One Man's Plan To Reunite Guns N' Roses (Mini-Doc)

[pilferk]

The issue is this: This only works if you've either given up on using any of that material on a future album OR if you know exactly what's going on that future release, so you can keep it out of the box set.  The one objection I can see the label having is in reducing the demand/market for the future "big" release.  I think we saw some of that with the leaks, and I think the label knows that any "official" release of new tracks is going to mean those tracks are "in the wild".  If 3 or 4 of them were then slated for use on the new "big" release...well, I don't think the label would be on board with that.

I agree.

Axl is claiming they already have "what I'd call the second half of 'Chinese' recorded."  That would have to come out before any box set of leftovers.

I'm not sure it has to be "out"..but they have to know what's going to be on it (generally). More specifically, they have to know what they're NOT going to include in the box set, because it has the potential to be on the next "new" album.

[D-GenerationX]

I'm not sure it has to be "out"..but they have to know what's going to be on it (generally). More specifically, they have to know what they're NOT going to include, because it has the potential to be on it.

True.  But, with his track record, you really think they plan that far down the line?  I rather doubt it.

I imagine they'd take a "walk before you can run" type of stance and tell him to work on getting them even one album to release.  Only been 7 years.

[pilferk]

True.  But, with his track record, you really think they plan that far down the line?  I rather doubt it.

I imagine they'd take a "walk before you can run" type of stance and tell him to work on getting them even one album to release.  Only been 7 years.

It's certainly possible.

Ultimately, I think "thinking that far down the line" would sort of be the mandate from the label if they were listening to this pitch.

They'd make Axl decide: Either this is the burn through of all the old material (and then there are separate conversations about ROI given the cost of the material, etc) OR it's a rarities release, and he has to comb through and anything he releases in the box set is "verboten" for the next album (or any future albums). What happens in the box set stays in the box set.

And I can very clearly see a "well, if this material isn't "good enough" for the new album, and would otherwise just sit in the vault, maybe we can monetize it" POV from the label.  In exactly this kind of format.  BIG bang for your buck. You're getting a premium price for what is essentially vault fodder. THATS the way you pitch it to them. From my limited experience, I think they'd eat that shit up.

[D-GenerationX]

And I can very clearly see a "well, if this material isn't "good enough" for the new album, and would otherwise just sit in the vault, maybe we can monetize it" POV from the label.  In exactly this kind of format.  BIG bang for your buck. You're getting a premium price for what is essentially vault fodder. THATS the way you pitch it to them. From my limited experience, I think they'd eat that shit up.

This is why I could never buy into that narrative that the label would rather never release anything out of...I don't know, spite? 

What sense does that make?  Don't you want to recoup whatever you can from the boatload of cash you sunk into this whole thing?

[pilferk]

Just some quick numbers:

You do 20 to 30 tracks (basically, 2 discs) of rarities, remixes, and "outtakes".  Nice, foil embossed, numbered "interesting" packaging. Hard bound Booklet with some "history" of that period of time (1996 - 2008), nice linear notes, and lyrics to all the songs Include some sort of swag item (a GnR themed flash drive with all the tracks in digital format?), and a hand signed, slightly larger than post card sized, "something" (artwork, band picture, etc).

I think you could get close to $150 for that. That sound fair?

Figure a production run of 25k units (it would probably be more like 50k units, but...)

That's roughly 3.75 million in revenue.

None of those physical items have super high production costs. I've sourced 100 pg hardbound books and flash drives, every year. You're talking maybe $8 a unit, combined. Packaging would depend on what they do. The signed "something" would cost time for the artists, but the physical item would cost a couple pennies. I think you negotiate "signing time" into the split, rather than up front costs.  

I can easily see head room, at that number, to fit the rest of the costs, based on my admittedly limited knowledge.

And I can see the label thinking getting an extra million-ish, in profit, would be worthwhile if the material being used didn't have another way to be monetized.

[pilferk]

This is why I could never buy into that narrative that the label would rather never release anything out of...I don't know, spite? 

What sense does that make?  Don't you want to recoup whatever you can from the boatload of cash you sunk into this whole thing?

Not "spite", necessarily.  It LOOKS like spite, but it's actually very calculated ROI calculations that don't take into account any shred of humanity.

And it happens. Labels have no soul. They are about money. 100%, completely, about money. Not helping the artist, not the artists best interests, not the artists CREATIVE interests.  About monetizing every single thing they have the right to monetize in the biggest way.

Which largely means telling the artist to go fuck off when they don't think the "thing" the artist is bringing to the label is the best, biggest, and most profitable use of that contracted item.

And label EXECUTIVES are, largely, power mad dickheads....but that's another conversation.

[D-GenerationX]

Just some quick numbers:

You do 20 to 30 tracks (basically, 2 discs) of rarities, remixes, and "outtakes".  Nice, foil embossed, numbered "interesting" packaging. Hard bound Booklet with some "history" of that period of time (1996 - 2008), nice linear notes, and lyrics to all the songs Include some sort of swag item (a GnR themed flash drive with all the tracks in digital format?), and a hand signed, slightly larger than post card sized, "something" (artwork, band picture, etc).

I think you could get close to $150 for that. That sound fair?

Figure a production run of 25k units (it would probably be more like 50k units, but...)

That's roughly 3.75 million in revenue.

None of those physical items have super high production costs. I've sourced 100 pg hardbound books and flash drives, every year. You're talking maybe $8 a unit, combined. Packaging would depend on what they do. The signed "something" would cost time for the artists, but the physical item would cost a couple pennies. I think you negotiate "signing time" into the split, rather than up front costs.  

I can easily see head room, at that number, to fit the rest of the costs, based on my admittedly limited knowledge.

And I can see the label thinking getting an extra million-ish, in profit, would be worthwhile if the material being used didn't have another way to be monetized.

I'm not sure if that fetches $150.

But all those extras would require some pretty heavy lifting on the cooperation front from Axl.

[jarmo]

I'm not sure this is directed at me.  

No it wasn't. It wasn't aimed at you, I know you're able to think freely outside of the "this is what makes sense to me so it must be that way" box.


All I've tried is to have a lighthearted conversation about a hypothetical boxset. One thing only. Like one tiny isolated piece of the puzzle. But this guy can't deal with it, he goes on and on about the rest of the puzzle, which isn't the thing I was trying to have a discussion about in the first place.

He can't focus on it. He can't just disregard all his negativity even for a few minutes and have a different look at it. Nope. Not possible.


You on the other hand, thanks for saying what I've been trying to get across for a while. 




/jarmo

[pilferk]

Just some quick numbers:

You do 20 to 30 tracks (basically, 2 discs) of rarities, remixes, and "outtakes".  Nice, foil embossed, numbered "interesting" packaging. Hard bound Booklet with some "history" of that period of time (1996 - 2008), nice linear notes, and lyrics to all the songs Include some sort of swag item (a GnR themed flash drive with all the tracks in digital format?), and a hand signed, slightly larger than post card sized, "something" (artwork, band picture, etc).

I think you could get close to $150 for that. That sound fair?

Figure a production run of 25k units (it would probably be more like 50k units, but...)

That's roughly 3.75 million in revenue.

None of those physical items have super high production costs. I've sourced 100 pg hardbound books and flash drives, every year. You're talking maybe $8 a unit, combined. Packaging would depend on what they do. The signed "something" would cost time for the artists, but the physical item would cost a couple pennies. I think you negotiate "signing time" into the split, rather than up front costs.  

I can easily see head room, at that number, to fit the rest of the costs, based on my admittedly limited knowledge.

And I can see the label thinking getting an extra million-ish, in profit, would be worthwhile if the material being used didn't have another way to be monetized.

I'm not sure if that fetches $150.

But all those extras would require some pretty heavy lifting on the cooperation front from Axl.

$150 would be pretty close to the going rate for other bands similar releases. Pink floyds dark side of the moon immersive anniversary edition was around $140, for example. Granted, it had six discs...but a lot of that is padded with previously released dvds/live shows (though not in dvd or blu ray). And no "new" material (as in, previously unheard songs) at all. There were some remixes and a remaster of the original disc, which were previously unreleased. And the tchotchkes included are lame...scarf, marbles, collector cards (aka pink floyd baseball cards) and coasters? Certailnly no hand signed autographs.

You could add a couple discs to the gnr box set by including appetite for democracy bluray and cd combo. You could also release one of the live shows that gnr online streamed, on a disc, throw in a copy of cd, with "the right cover and booklet". None of that really incurs  much additional cost.

It requires approval, participation in mixing, mastering, and selection.  And 25k signatures.

The first four are no different than any release.

The last is onerous, but...if hulk hogan can manage roughly 500k, across all platforms, for the limited edition of wwe2k15, i trust axl could manage 25k.

[mortismurphy]

You seem to have a habit of replying to innocuous flippant asides with over wrought self indulgent analyse. All this and I still have not recovered from 'riotous' gate!

RIGHT, it's me.  If you think anyone but you is buying that...I got a bridge to sell you. It's a convenient way to try to wiggle out when you're made to look "bad", though. I'll give you that. And it's just as intellectually bent as the words that got you into this.

Maybe it's time for you to wonder why your words get analyzed...and be a little more introspective. Cause trust me...every objective eye here knows it's you, not me. In fact..let me couch that: I think you KNOW why they get analyzed...and you get your jollies off the conflict.  Honestly, my first impression of you was "board warrior troll". I've dropped the board warrior conception...but I'm still not convinced you're not here just trolling for fun.  And none of this conversation has helped that perception.

And you'll never recover. Because each time someone (and it hasn't just been me) actually subjects your words to any sort of scrutiny, they fall apart. And then you try the same tired tactics to get out from under what you said. You backpedal. You twist on the hook.  It's obvious, it shows a complete lack of conviction or willingness to stand behind what you say, and it essentially means you're not to be taken seriously.

Here's a hint: If you don't like being taken to task for saying stupid, funny shit...stop saying stupid, (unintenionally) funny, shit.

But, in any event, Mo Vaughn.  Continue to provide the giggles....and I'll continue to point out where they occur. If you don't like it, tough shit.

Self indulgent nonsense as usual.

[pilferk]

Self indulgent nonsense as usual.

Thanks for further making my point.

Just let me know when you're ready to pay for that bridge....

Until then...feel free to have the last word.  You seem to need it oh so badly.

[jarmo]

This is straight from the Internet message board handbook for Dummies!

Don't you know that's how you win debates? You ignore the points made by the other guy and turn to insults.

 



/jarmo

[pilferk]

This is straight from the Internet message board handbook for Dummies!

Don't you know that's how you win debates? You ignore the points made by the other guy and turn to insults.

 



/jarmo

Yeah, I'm aware.  It's one of the reasons my troll radar goes off, and why I dropped "the board warrior" notion.

[D-GenerationX]

All I've tried is to have a lighthearted conversation about a hypothetical boxset. One thing only. Like one tiny isolated piece of the puzzle. But this guy can't deal with it, he goes on and on about the rest of the puzzle, which isn't the thing I was trying to have a discussion about in the first place.

He can't focus on it. He can't just disregard all his negativity even for a few minutes and have a different look at it. Nope. Not possible.

Yeah, life's hard.

[D-GenerationX]

You could add a couple discs to the gnr box set by including appetite for democracy bluray and cd combo. You could also release one of the live shows that gnr online streamed, on a disc, throw in a copy of cd, with "the right cover and booklet". None of that really incurs  much additional cost.

I'd be more interested in a throw in like that, a live show, then I would liner notes.

Liner notes and packaging never meant much to me anyway, but certainly not since the iPod came on the scene.

[pilferk]

You could add a couple discs to the gnr box set by including appetite for democracy bluray and cd combo. You could also release one of the live shows that gnr online streamed, on a disc, throw in a copy of cd, with "the right cover and booklet". None of that really incurs  much additional cost.

I'd be more interested in a throw in like that, a live show, then I would liner notes.

Liner notes and packaging never meant much to me anyway, but certainly not since the iPod came on the scene.

Yeah, packaging, etc, not my thing either. I mean..don't get me wrong..it's NICE. But it's not what drives me to buy.

But to a LOT of collectors, that IS their thing.  You want to, at the lowest total cost, appeal to as many of that "type" of buyer as you can.

So you get your extra material..they get their packaging, the other guy gets the tchotchkes.  Whatever parts you from the ducats.

[D-GenerationX]

Oh yeah, you'd have to go all out on packaging if you are charging that kind of coin.

I never realized how important packaging and artwork was to people until the whole dust-up with the booklet for CD.  Hearing people say they would buy it all over again, with no new or different material, just for a different cover?

That's dedication.

[jarmo]

Yeah, life's hard.

Not really. What's hard is having a discussion with a brick wall. Or you.
Similar experiences.

Yeah, packaging, etc, not my thing either. I mean..don't get me wrong..it's NICE. But it's not what drives me to buy.

You can copy the music and put in on your device. But looking at a picture on a screen isn't the same as flipping through a proper booklet/book with the artwork. Or even opening up a box, gatefold vinyl or whatever.
You can't recreate that part. Or copy it for everybody to download for free.





/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

This is straight from the Internet message board handbook for Dummies!

Don't you know that's how you win debates? You ignore the points made by the other guy and turn to insults.

 



/jarmo

I have not even got the effort. It is not worth my time. It is rather like when the two of you went completely overboard over the word, 'riotous'. It is not worth my time replying to that sort of anal behaviour. I may as well beat my head against a wall.

[D-GenerationX]

Not really. What's hard is having a discussion with a brick wall. Or you.
Similar experiences.

Who's forcing you to?  Is he armed?

I laid out in detail why I think what I think about the viability of a box set of CD outtakes.  You didn't like it.  Oh well.