The Flashback: #1 - Chinese Democracy

[Spirit]

I thought we could do a series of discussion threads on the Chinese Democracy tracks, starting off with the first one on the record, Chinese Democracy itself.


When did you first hear it? Was it a live version, a leak, on the radio or when you bought the cd?

What did you initially think about the song when you first heard it?

If you heard it years before the release, what do you think of the evolution of the song?

What are your thoughts on the song today, years later? Does it hold up?



These are just some guidelines to steer the conversation. You can give your own thoughts on the song not following any template of questions, but they are there to give you some idea of what to share.






Personally I heard the Las Vegas 010101 version first. Some days after the concert, I downloaded the tracks.

The one thing that stood out was the sound of the guitars I think, very different from the classic GNR stuff. It kinda gave me an idea of what was to come, at least what GNR was planning at the time. I liked it.

The guitars we know from the record, the riff played through the verses was not present in this version. It gave it more of a electronic feel I guess. You could hear the synth playing more, I thought that was a neat sound, although no classic rock sound. I guess it leaned a bit towards a grunge sound as well with the power chords.

Fast forward to later versions of the song. They added the intro, and it soon became quite clear that this was probably the opener of the album, with that build up. I also like Ron's contribution to the song, but if I had to choose, I think I might have gone with the more stripped-down version of the song. It made it slightly more interesting.

One thing that surprised me, this being the title track, I had always pictured it a more epic song maybe. It's a straight forward rocker.

I still listen to it today, and think it's a good song. The song works much much better when played at a high volume. The dynamics come through very well on the song, especially when the guitar kicks in in the middle of the song. They've got real punch to them, I like that a lot.

The weak point of the song must be the chorus. It's not that catchy.

[rebelhipi]

First time i heard Chinese was in 2006 , cant remember which version i heard first.

I really prefer the version on the album. Franks version of the drum beat,little slower tempo, Ron's slide guitar, the solos are my favorite part of the song.  My favorite live versions are any good one from 09-14.

I never liked when Robin  stretched the intro riff in 06-07 versions.

[Sosso]

First time I heard the title song was in 2007 and it was the Rock In Rio III version.

As much as I love the album version - I prefer the earlier live performances.

[sky dog]

In 2001... Rio version...quick paced..liked it but I thought it was missing something. Bucket brought that second something when they added his solo right after Robin's. Ron's additions were good too but may have drowned out Tommy's bass on the CD version. Not my fav CD track but solid nonetheless.

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

Vegas HOB 1/1/01 boot sometime in latter part of that year.  Interesting story about Kundun.  It took me some time to get into this song as it was cleariy a departure and leaned towards the industrial sound we had been hearing about, and admittedly, I wasn't a big fan right away.  But it grew on me, and ultimately I think its a powerful lead off song with how it builds momentum, but true in that it doesn't have a catchy chorus.  That being said, great thing about Guns is that often times the versus are better than the chorus.

[Spirit]

I agree about what you said about the verses often being better than the chorus. That's why I think Chinese Democracy could have had a real cool vibe in the final version if the verses were like the early versions. The synth sounds more audible combined with a real punchy bass sound.

I'm not saying Ron's slide guitar was a bad addition, but it did give the song a different vibe.

[jarmo]

The RIR3 audio stream. That must've been the first time I heard the song.

With all the rumors floating around for years before the performance, it wasn't as big of a departure from the GN'R sound as some rumors made out to be. It wasn't techno! 

First time I heard and saw it live in person must've been Download festival in 2006.




/jarmo

[nick6sic6]

First time i heard it was Rio 2001 (shitty stream) and shortly after the House of Blues bootleg.
I didn't get it at first,it was just another ok track like oh my god.When the now legendary leaks popped up i loved it.As with better and Twat.
In 06,10 and 12 when i experienced it live,first row i got chills.

[D-GenerationX]

First time was RIR III.  Still my favorite version.

I think this one actually gets worse over time.  At RIR III, its a tight 3 minute rocker that really hits you pretty hard.  Its awesome.

I can agree that I did like the solo Bucket adds in the 2002 tour.  But I don't really care for the big long intro that started being added in 2006.  And by the time the album eventually came out...I don't know, it seemed like the song lost a lot of its edge.

[Boromir]

As an opening song, its still one of my fav highlights live.

The excitement it builts with the intro and then the scream, the pyros and the band on stage!

[jarmo]

The excitement it builts with the intro and then the scream, the pyros and the band on stage!

Yeah.

I remember convincing somebody who thought Jungle would be a better opening song with the fact that Chinese into Jungle is like two punches following each other. 




/jarmo

[rebelhipi]

The excitement it builts with the intro and then the scream, the pyros and the band on stage!

Yeah.

I remember convincing somebody who thought Jungle would be a better opening song with the fact that Chinese into Jungle is like two punches following each other. 




/jarmo

The current, Chinese , Jungle, Easy, Brownstone, Estranged combo works perfectly.

[C0ma]

The excitement it builts with the intro and then the scream, the pyros and the band on stage!

Yeah.

I remember convincing somebody who thought Jungle would be a better opening song with the fact that Chinese into Jungle is like two punches following each other. 




/jarmo

After years of the band starting shows with the intro music, followed by Robin's delayed WTTJ intro, then into Axl's 'Do you know where you are?!?'... I was a little slow to pickup on just how strong opening the show with the full intro into CD followed by Jungle is, but I am a convert. Honestly though I think DJ's take in the opening chords of CD won me over a little.

[LIGuns]

HOB 01/01/01 was the 1st time I heard CD...I was in awe the entire show, realizing the significance of this concert...Thankfully months later I was able to get the audio bootleg to relive this historic performance..During the UYI Tour I missed the pre intro Axl was known for, but during the CD noth ng got the crowd up like the opening chords followed by Axl strutting out onstage..But CD is a great opener!

[Spirit]

My memories might be a little bit cloudy I realize.

When did the 010101 bootleg become available on the internet? I thought I remembered correctly when I said that I could listen to the show just some days after. If it was in fact later in the year, then I too heard the RIR 3 version of the song first.   

[HBK]

Rio 2001

 

[Spirit]

It works well as the opener. I guess the intro is the suspension-builder, but I think it would have worked even without that, just starting on the guitar riff.

Next time they start touring, do you guys wish they keep it as the opener, go back to WTTJ, start with another known song or even kicking off with a brand new song?

I think starting the show with a brand new song can be a risk. You want to get the audience going at the start of the show and a song that the people know and can sing along to is the way to go.

I hope they change it up and either goes back to WTTJ or switch to ISE or YCBM.

[LongGoneDay]

I remember being both happy and disappointed upon first listen. Happy that I was hearing new GN?R, Axl material.
Happy it was rock based, and not the techno influenced sound that had been rumored.
Disappointed because it has this drawn out, want to be epic intro that leads into a pretty straight forward, half baked Nirvana sounding B-Side, with some shredding(some of which I enjoy) pasted over the top.
I think the long intro does it a disservice, as it sort of suggests it?s going to be something it never becomes.

Lyrically, I can?t relate to it. I?ve often wondered where Axl?s fascination with it stems from, and how he/they decided it should be the name of the album/possibly trilogy. Not a bad song, just underwhelming I guess, especially when accustomed to epics like WTTJ, RNDTH, Civil War. Probably wouldn?t classify Reckless Life as an epic, but it does make for a great opening track.
Since I Don?t Have You doesn?t seem to fit anywhere on SI, and probably the last song you would guess as an opener. Maybe that?s why it?s there.

Live, I probably enjoy it more, and while I don?t think it works as well as WTTJ by any means, I can appreciate them changing things up.

Had it not already been released on the EOD soundtrack, I think Oh My God would have made for a great opener. Sure it?s a huge departure from the old band?s sound, but Axl?s voice, lyrics, intensity all make for a great in your face opener in my opinion. Other than that, I guess there was no real obvious choice.

[jarmo]

I don't think people (often) use the word epic to describe Right Next Door To Hell.... 



/jarmo

[Spirit]

As an album opener I think CD works just fine. It got good reviews in the media as well. That Axl scream at the beginning has something of a symbolic feeling, marking his comeback.