Ex G N' R manager blames Slash and Axl Rose’s feud on Michael Jackson

[LongGoneDay]

Seemed a better fit to me than Huge, and I thought there were some cool ideas on Pawn Shop Guitars, but I?m not losing any sleep over the fact Gilby wasn?t allowed to contribute to the creative process of GN'R.
Hindsight is 20-20, but it?s clear Izzy was the heartbeat of that band, and no one was/is going to fill his shoes. Again, easy to say with the benefit of hindsight, but the right call would probably have been to make the compromises necessary to get Izzy back on board, take some time off, and get everyone back on the same page. Obviously, to Slash, Duff, & Matt, Huge wasn?t the answer. To Axl, Gilby wasn?t the answer. Clearly there were compromises to be made on all sides, but egos were to big at that point to accommodate any such thing.

[jarmo]

Paul was there to help write songs. Which he has proven to be able to do.

I prefer any of the songs he co-wrote with GN'R over anything Gilby co-wrote with Slash that ended up on the Snakepit album. Sorry all old band and Gilby fans....



/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

Paul was there to help write songs. Which he has proven to be able to do.

I prefer any of the songs he co-wrote with GN'R over anything Gilby co-wrote with Slash that ended up on the Snakepit album. Sorry all old band and Gilby fans....



/jarmo

We have discussed this before ... That is all true... nobody likes Slash Snakepit... at least not a lot of people..

But its HARDLY the point ... If they all wanted to make it work they would have compromised or found the right guy that all were happy with... they didn't want to...

I would have preferred that band never broke up... and I would have preferred that GNR not only have one album out since then. So that band breaking up didn't lead to bigger and better things.

And again you are right about Paul's writing... Gilby would not have made the impact on future GNR songs that Paul did.. Some of those songs are definitely the most impactful on the record...just not the point.

If Axl and Slash really wanted to continue on together... they would have compromised.. neither did... on anything.

If the only point you care to make is that Axl was right in that Paul was better than Gilby... great... but he alienated the entire band in the process.

[LongGoneDay]

Paul was there to help write songs. Which he has proven to be able to do.

I prefer any of the songs he co-wrote with GN'R over anything Gilby co-wrote with Slash that ended up on the Snakepit album. Sorry all old band and Gilby fans....



/jarmo

No need to apologize.
It?s not exactly clash of the titans, but I can appreciate both. Huge had an advantage in the respect he had Axl singing rather than Dover.
I?d probably rank Huge inspired songs like Back off Bitch among the lesser songs in the GN?R catalogue, though I still fucking love it.
CITR had potential to be great, I would say it?s the high point of CD.
Still, I think it?s pretty obvious that bringing him in to write with Slash, when Slash wanted no part of him, was the wrong move.
I don?t think any rational thinking person would pick Huge over Slash, and that?s essentially what it boiled down to.

[mortismurphy]

Paul was there to help write songs. Which he has proven to be able to do.

I prefer any of the songs he co-wrote with GN'R over anything Gilby co-wrote with Slash that ended up on the Snakepit album. Sorry all old band and Gilby fans....



/jarmo

I actually prefer Pawnshop Guitars to Snakepit. Gilby only wrote three songs on Snakepit anyway. Pawnshop Guitars is one of my favourites of the solo records.

[jarmo]

But its HARDLY the point ... If they all wanted to make it work they would have compromised or found the right guy that all were happy with... they didn't want to...

Yeah, but imagine the scenario.

Here's Paul, he'll help us write.
No!
But he'll only help as long as needed, do you have somebody else in mind?
No!
You don't want to work with Paul and you have no other suggestions?
No! Gilby!
Gilby is gone.
No!

I actually prefer Pawnshop Guitars to Snakepit. Gilby only wrote three songs on Snakepit anyway. Pawnshop Guitars is one of my favourites of the solo records.

Always preferred Izzy's solo output to Gilby's.

But the strongest track on his album is probably as strong as the strongest on that Snakepit album. 




/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

But its HARDLY the point ... If they all wanted to make it work they would have compromised or found the right guy that all were happy with... they didn't want to...

Yeah, but imagine the scenario.

Here's Paul, he'll help us write.
No!
But he'll only help as long as needed, do you have somebody else in mind?
No!
You don't want to work with Paul and you have no other suggestions?
No! Gilby!
Gilby is gone.
No!

I actually prefer Pawnshop Guitars to Snakepit. Gilby only wrote three songs on Snakepit anyway. Pawnshop Guitars is one of my favourites of the solo records.

Always preferred Izzy's solo output to Gilby's.

But the strongest track on his album is probably as strong as the strongest on that Snakepit album. 




/jarmo

I realize the guys were not helpful in suggesting somebody else... very clearly.. that was terrible of them.

But when they were told Gilby was out without a say in the matter from the get go... that's started a downward spiral.

[jarmo]

Gilby was probably out way before they even started working on Snakepit.

Duff didn't go play and record with Snakepit, with Slash and Gilby. The material wasn't to his liking either.

So I don't know how much it bothered Duff that Gilby was gone to be honest. Slash was the one that had to work with Gilby and brought him along to do Snakepit. Until that had ran its course and then Gilby was gone from there too.

The bigger issue seemed to be who was gonna replace Gilby....




/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

Gilby was probably out way before they even started working on Snakepit.

Duff didn't go play and record with Snakepit, with Slash and Gilby. The material wasn't to his liking either.

So I don't know how much it bothered Duff that Gilby was gone to be honest. Slash was the one that had to work with Gilby and brought him along to do Snakepit. Until that had ran its course and then Gilby was gone from there too.

The bigger issue seemed to be who was gonna replace Gilby....




/jarmo

I don't really disagree with any of what you are saying...It's just very clear that Slash Duff and Matt didn't want Paul around. So if Axl had hoped to continue with them, it should have died on the vine right there.

No compromise on either end... and the result was inevitable. Funny, that replacing Gilby was such a turning point in the history of GNR, like people have pointed out the only guy capable was Izzy.

[GeorgeSteele]

Gilby was probably out way before they even started working on Snakepit.

Duff didn't go play and record with Snakepit, with Slash and Gilby. The material wasn't to his liking either.

So I don't know how much it bothered Duff that Gilby was gone to be honest. Slash was the one that had to work with Gilby and brought him along to do Snakepit. Until that had ran its course and then Gilby was gone from there too.

The bigger issue seemed to be who was gonna replace Gilby....




/jarmo

Right, firing Gilby and bringing in Paul were 2 different things.  My understanding of the limited information we have, is that, while the impetus to fire Gilby came from Axl, it was discussed with Slash and Duff.  And, at least, based on this quote from Slash, it looks like Duff may have supported firing Gilby too:

"Then, in turn, [Gilby] had words with Duff. And that sort of cemented the, you know, the relationship, the departure. Whatever you wanna call it." (Slash, Canadian Radio, 04/20/95)

Also, I'm not so sure that Axl was not happy with the quality of Gilby's writing ability. I always thought it was more a matter of wanting to modernize Guns' sound and he didn't think Gilby was the right fit, since he was, in his own words, interested in just "a loud version of The Rolling Stones". 

[mortismurphy]

Gilby was probably out way before they even started working on Snakepit.

He almost certainly was. Gilby was sacked in or around June 1994. The recording sessions for It's five o' clock did not take place until September 1994.

Duff didn't go play and record with Snakepit, with Slash and Gilby. The material wasn't to his liking either.

So I don't know how much it bothered Duff that Gilby was gone to be honest.

I know he did not agree with the hiring of Tobias.

[jarmo]

Also, I'm not so sure that Axl was not happy with the quality of Gilby's writing ability. I always thought it was more a matter of wanting to modernize Guns' sound and he didn't think Gilby was the right fit, since he was, in his own words, interested in just "a loud version of The Rolling Stones". 

Yeah, but I think if you want to achieve that, it makes sense to have somebody who can write material that reflects that change. Not necessarily somebody who would write songs that sounds like something from the 1960s.

You could be the best in the world at writing that kind of songs, but it wouldn't be right for a band that wants to explorer other avenues, musically.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

All the minimizing and running down of Gilby in the world is never going to make the idea to bring in Paul, the way it was done, a good idea.

A lot of false equivalency going on here.

Also not sure I'm really buying this whole "but, but, no one else had any suggestions!" bit.

So...if the others came back and said "OK, we got a guy, so Axl...lose your buddy Paul" then Axl was then going to turn to Paul and say "sorry dude, looks like you're out"?

[jarmo]

That's just you assuming you know how things would be because you assume you know that's how Axl works.

Paul left pretty much as soon as they found Richard to be available and there were touring plans.... His work was done.

The question remains. If Gilby was such a great pal to Slash, why wasn't he in Snakepit V2?
If he was so determined to keep him on board, why was he so quick to let Gilby go, even from his own solo career where he made all the shots?

And if he didn't want him there because he wanted to start a new band, maybe that same reason was why Gilby couldn't continue with GN'R!



/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

The question remains. If Gilby was such a great pal to Slash, why wasn't he in Snakepit V2?
If he was so determined to keep him on board, why was he so quick to let Gilby go, even from his own solo career where he made all the shots?

I can think of a number of reasons. Firstly, the second Snakepit was a completely separate band from the first Snakepit band (it was the record company forcing the 'Slash's Snakepit' tag on Slash by the way); for a start, the first band was a side project whereas the second band was intended as a full time project. Secondly, maybe Slash wanted to work with Ryan Roxie? A creative process with Ryan Roxie does not necessarily indicate some slight at Gilby Clarke. Thirdly, Gilby was busy with his own solo career at the time; in the exact same year Ain't Life Grand was recorded (1999), Gilby was busy playing dates in support of his recent solo album, Rubber (1998). We should not necessarily just assume Gilby is at the beck and call of Slash here.

[D-GenerationX]

Slash was also cool with Gilby not continuing on with GNR. 

It wasn't like he wanted him and Axl didn't.  Neither did.

[mortismurphy]

Slash was also cool with Gilby not continuing on with GNR. 

It wasn't like he wanted him and Axl didn't.  Neither did.

I do not think that is true, is it?

[D-GenerationX]

Slash was also cool with Gilby not continuing on with GNR. 

It wasn't like he wanted him and Axl didn't.  Neither did.

I do not think that is true, is it?

Apparently.

If you read that Chinese Whispers site that chronicled all this crazyness in real time, Slash was just as onboard moving on without him.

I was suprised reading that, but these were direct quotes from Slash.

[EmilyGNR]

Slash has shot down as false a former GUNS N' ROSES manager's claim that an argument over the guitarist's collaboration with Michael Jackson is ultimately what fractured the relationship the ex-GN'R axeman and the band's lead singer Axl Rose.

In a recent interview with the Brazilian edition of Rolling Stone magazine, Doug Goldstein ? who managed GUNS N' ROSES from 1991 to 2008 ? said: "In 1991, we were on the road, and Slash went to my office and said, 'I'll be leaving tomorrow to play with Michael Jackson at a tribute concert.' I told him not to do it because Axl was molested by his father when he was two and he believed the charges against Michael Jackson."

He continued: "Everyone knew Eddie Van Halen received $1 million to play in 'Beat It'. So, I asked Slash, 'How much are you receiving?' and he said, 'I'll just get a big-screen TV.'"

Axl was very hurt when he learned about the collaboration. "When Axl found out Slash was going to play with Michael Jackson and that the payment was a big-screen TV, he was devastated," Doug said. "He thought Slash would support him and be against all abuse. From the point of view of Axl, that was the only problem. He could ignore the drugs and the alcohol, but could never the child abuse."

Slash played his final show with GUNS N' ROSES in July 1993, and by October 1996 he announced that he was no longer part of the band.

So what would it take to repair the rift between the guitarist and Axl? "Slash would have to apologize for the episode with Michael Jackson," Goldstein said. "And I really believe ? I'd be the manager to reunite them. I don't think anyone else could do it."

In a brand new interview with "Elliot In The Morning", the morning radio talk show hosted by DJ Elliot Segal, Slash was asked if there is any truth to Goldstein's claims.

"You know what?! I've been hearing a lot about this particular interview from a lot of people that he really pissed off," Slash replied (hear audio below). "And I've heard that. And I don't think there's any truth to that. I mean, obviously, the band stayed together for years after that whole thing. And it wasn't a big deal at the time. And if it did piss anybody off, it was something that went away. So I don't think it had anything to do with the original GUNS N' ROSES' demise."

Slash also explained that he doesn't go out of his way to read any of Goldstein's interviews that have to do with GUNS N' ROSES. "I don't wanna read or hear that guy's B.S., so I just avoid it," he said. "That way I stay sane. [Laughs]"


Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/slash-shoots-down-claim-his-relationship-with-axl-rose-was-torn-over-michael-jackson-collaboration/#jCsxRFpdxBBB4c6k.99

[jarmo]

I can think of a number of reasons. Firstly, the second Snakepit was a completely separate band from the first Snakepit band (it was the record company forcing the 'Slash's Snakepit' tag on Slash by the way); for a start, the first band was a side project whereas the second band was intended as a full time project. Secondly, maybe Slash wanted to work with Ryan Roxie? A creative process with Ryan Roxie does not necessarily indicate some slight at Gilby Clarke. Thirdly, Gilby was busy with his own solo career at the time; in the exact same year Ain't Life Grand was recorded (1999), Gilby was busy playing dates in support of his recent solo album, Rubber (1998). We should not necessarily just assume Gilby is at the beck and call of Slash here.

Of course you can. But you can't think of nay reasons why he had to go from GN'R?

Yes, it was a new band because he wanted something new. So ironically this wasn't an option for GN'R if we ask you. New start for GN'R? Not allowed according to you.
Secondly, maybe Axl wanted to work with somebody who's not Gilby?
Third, yeah and he's been busy since. Didn't stop him from joining that TV supergroup or to play with Heart....




/jarmo