Ex G N' R manager blames Slash and Axl Rose’s feud on Michael Jackson

[mortismurphy]

They were forced to play with Paul? Well, do you remember anybody else being an option? No.

Probably because the lead singer had unceremoniously sacked the prior incumbent without the rest of the band's consent also!

Funny how you fail to mention the Snakepit songs that Slash wanted Axl to sing on and to be the next GN'R album. How come?

Axl has already been found out lying here. The lyrics to the Snakepit songs were largely composed by Eric Dover. This was after the demos had been rejected by Axl. A swift reading of the booklet would verify this.

Yeah, maybe you're not interested in trying to write without the singer present if your idea of the next album is your songs only. That's it.

I am under no illusions that Axl was unaware of the sessions happening between Slash, Gilby and Matt, and that Axl would not have had an invite - if he had turned up?. Axl could not even be bothered to turn up for rehearsals for Rio 3!

And yet you failed to answer the age old question. You don't think it's a legitimate reason to not be friendly about a guy who spent years telling stories to the press that are simply not true.

That is where we differ. I regard most of them as true. I think Axl destroyed the old band.

[D-GenerationX]

I most certainly can not find Axl at fault for showing no interest in that material that became the first Snakepit album.

Could you imagine any of that coming out as a Guns N' Roses product?  Come on.  We'd have freaked out.

And for good reason.  That stuff sucked.

[mortismurphy]

I most certainly can not find Axl at fault for showing no interest in that material that became the first Snakepit album.

Could you imagine any of that coming out as a Guns N' Roses product?  Come on.  We'd have freaked out.

And for good reason.  That stuff sucked.

There are some good riffs and guitar parts there. Hypothetically, with Axl's input, I could envision a few great GN'R songs emerging from it all.

[LongGoneDay]

I most certainly can not find Axl at fault for showing no interest in that material that became the first Snakepit album.

Could you imagine any of that coming out as a Guns N' Roses product?  Come on.  We'd have freaked out.

And for good reason.  That stuff sucked.

I?ll take Beggars and Hangers On, over anything on Chinese Democracy, 7 days a week.
Add Axl?s voice/input into the mix, and he takes it to a new level.

I think both Snakepit records are solid, but Slash has a knack for finding singers(outside of Axl & Scott) that I can only listen to in small doses.
I can?t listen to an entire Dover, Jackson, Kennedy album in one sitting, but musically there is some real interesting stuff going on all of those records.

Axl is clearly in another stratosphere talent wise above that crop, and his input would have no doubt elevated the songs.

Plus if we are playing make believe, and talking about a true Guns N? Roses record, Izzy would have been involved in the songwriting process.

[JAEBALL]

I most certainly can not find Axl at fault for showing no interest in that material that became the first Snakepit album.

Could you imagine any of that coming out as a Guns N' Roses product?  Come on.  We'd have freaked out.

And for good reason.  That stuff sucked.

I?ll take Beggars and Hangers On, over anything on Chinese Democracy, 7 days a week.
Add Axl?s voice/input into the mix, and he takes it to a new level.

I think both Snakepit records are solid, but Slash has a knack for finding singers(outside of Axl & Scott) that I can only listen to in small doses.
I can?t listen to an entire Dover, Jackson, Kennedy album in one sitting, but musically there is some real interesting stuff going on all of those records.

Axl is clearly in another stratosphere talent wise above that crop, and his input would have no doubt elevated the songs.

Plus if we are playing make believe, and talking about a true Guns N? Roses record, Izzy would have been involved in the songwriting process.

The key is in your last point.

If Izz was around to bridge the gap... there is no reason why some of those songs couldn't have turned in to songs some people are voting on every day in that best GNR song poll...

Back to the topic at hand...I've been trying to clarify by re reading some stuff... but can somebody confirm the precise reason Doug was eventually fired?

Did he not get along with Beta? Or is it mostly because of failed touring plans?

[italian queen]

Yes, I agree

[mortismurphy]

Did he not get along with Beta? Or is it mostly because of failed touring plans?

Something to do with that cancelled 2001 tour that Axl first read about ''on the internet''.

[D-GenerationX]

Did he not get along with Beta? Or is it mostly because of failed touring plans?

Something to do with that cancelled 2001 tour that Axl first read about ''on the internet''.

Hahahaha.

I think he was out after that, yes.  Don't think he was around for the 2002 tour.

[jarmo]

Probably because the lead singer had unceremoniously sacked the prior incumbent without the rest of the band's consent also!

Gilby is no Izzy. They needed a song writer. Nobody offered any other options except the easiest one.

Axl has already been found out lying here. The lyrics to the Snakepit songs were largely composed by Eric Dover. This was after the demos had been rejected by Axl. A swift reading of the booklet would verify this.

No, he hasn't. Just because Dover has song writing credits doesn't mean he wrote all the lyrics on all those songs.

Also, why did you ignore the fact that it was Slash's idea for the next GN'R record?
Even Duff agreed with Axl on that one.

And yet you failed to answer the age old question. You don't think it's a legitimate reason to not be friendly about a guy who spent years telling stories to the press that are simply not true.

That is where we differ. I regard most of them as true. I think Axl destroyed the old band.

That's yet another reason why you should go find another fan site to post on.

There are some good riffs and guitar parts there. Hypothetically, with Axl's input, I could envision a few great GN'R songs emerging from it all.

Slash thought they were done and recorded them himself.






/jarmo

[DeN]

that's the thing I don't understand. everyone knows Izzy was a crucial part of the band.
replacing him was probably the hardest thing the guys had to do.

maybe doing the sympathy cover was a mistake, there were no rush, Gilby didn't fit,
Paul Huge was rejected by the others, they could have taken some time to find the
right guy who would have pleased everyone.

[jarmo]

He's got writing credits on several songs on Chinese Democracy that aren't that far off the old band's sound. Street Of Dreams, I.R.S., The Was A Time and Catcher In The Rye.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

maybe doing the sympathy cover was a mistake, there were no rush, Gilby didn't fit,
Paul Huge was rejected by the others, they could have taken some time to find the
right guy who would have pleased everyone.

When one guy says "this is the guy" and the other main members of your band say "over our dead bodies", the answer should then be "well, then we'll have to go in another direction."

Yes, I suppose you could say that another answer would be this guy's champion to tell the others that their opinions didn't matter an if they didn't like it they could leave, but what does that get you?  Gets you what we've had since then.  Hard to call it preferable.  We may all still be rolling with it all, but it ain't our first choice

Kind of have to question Paul's lack of self awareness too.  Are you telling me that at no point did he pull Axl aside and double check this was all still a good idea since it seemed to be causing obvious strife?  Now, maybe he did and Axl assured him it would all work out.  Who knows?  But I'd like to think he at least asked.

I wound up liking Paul's contribution to the album we eventually got 12 years later, but is that the point?  Life is often a cost benefit analysis.  And for as much as I like his contributions, do I like them so much that it was worth all the bullshit?  Nah, not really.

[mortismurphy]

Gilby is no Izzy. They needed a song writer. Nobody offered any other options except the easiest one.

Gilby had written for Candy and Kills for Thrills when he was recruited. His credentials were superior to Tobias, an unknown quantity. And since joining GN'R, Gilby has released five original studio albums. He has actually released more songs than Axl.

Axl has already been found out lying here. The lyrics to the Snakepit songs were largely composed by Eric Dover. This was after the demos had been rejected by Axl. A swift reading of the booklet would verify this.

No, he hasn't. Just because Dover has song writing credits doesn't mean he wrote all the lyrics on all those songs.

He wrote the majority of them. The only one he didn't write was Be the Ball and Gilby's song, Monkey Chow.

Also, why did you ignore the fact that it was Slash's idea for the next GN'R record?
Even Duff agreed with Axl on that one.

Ehh, yes. How else is Slash supposed to provide his ideas for the next Guns album? Or are you wanting to Slash to not provide ideas for a GN'R album, featuring Slash?

That's yet another reason why you should go find another fan site to post on.

Why? I do not have to agree with Axl nor particularly believe the guy in order to listen to his music.

[jarmo]

Yeah, easy to come to such conclusions when you don't even try to look at it from any other angle.

Dave Navarro wasn't a good idea, Zakk Wylde wasn't a good idea, Paul wasn't a good idea... All suggestions by Axl.
And the answer was: Gilby?

If you think of yourself as the lead guitar player and the other one is only supposed to just support your role, it's easy to see why none of those other guys was a good idea. It's like the UN where one guy can veto all suggestions just because he can....  

Look at the guitar players that's been in his bands since he quit GN'R. Not really anybody who would "challenge" him like somebody such as Zakk would.

Also, Duff didn't quit right there and then.

Gilby had written for Candy and Kills for Thrills when he was recruited. His credentials were superior to Tobias, an unknown quantity. And since joining GN'R, Gilby has released five original studio albums. He has actually released more songs than Axl.

Nice try, but Paul had already history writing with Axl. Check your Use Your Illusion booklet!
So not unknown at all.

Quality over quantity. I would take one album by Izzy over all those Gilby albums....

He wrote the majority of them. The only one he didn't write was Be the Ball and Gilby's song, Monkey Chow.

Stop claiming this as a fact!

?He and I wrote lyrics for all twelve tracks and I think it?s pretty easy to tell which songs he wrote and which ones I wrote: all of my songs are directed at one person?though no one picked up on it at the time.?
 

There you go, Slash says he wrote lyrics as well. Now what?
Yes, he didn't write all the lyrics, but to claim he had very little to do with them is wrong.

Ehh, yes. How else is Slash supposed to provide his ideas for the next Guns album? Or are you wanting to Slash to not provide ideas for a GN'R album, featuring Slash?

Well, you can write songs and song ideas. You don't need to present a bunch of Southern Rock and claim that's the songs. No work required by the others.

Why? I do not have to agree with Axl nor particularly believe the guy in order to listen to his music.

This site isn't for people who love AC/DC with a bias against GN'R. Sorry.





/jarmo

[raindogs70]

Jarmo, did you ever meet Paul Tobias?

[jarmo]

Not that I remember..... 



/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

Nice try, but Paul had already history writing with Axl. Check your Use Your Illusion booklet!
So not unknown at all.

Oh dear!! He existed as one name underneath one of Illusion's more embarrassing songs. I think he was also credited for Shadow of Your Love, an obscure b-side! The point is that Tobias had never played for a signed band and  recorded/released an album of which, he had written the majority of the songs - until he was hired. To claim that he had worthier songwriting credentials than Gilby is absurd.

Quality over quantity. I would take one album by Izzy over all those Gilby albums....

Subjective.

But if you must, I prefer Izzy more also. Pawnshop Guitars however is an excellent album and that was released at around the time he was sacked. Seems to be some good ideas on there that Axl could have used.

He wrote the majority of them. The only one he didn't write was Be the Ball and Gilby's song, Monkey Chow.

Stop claiming this as a fact!

?He and I wrote lyrics for all twelve tracks and I think it?s pretty easy to tell which songs he wrote and which ones I wrote: all of my songs are directed at one person?though no one picked up on it at the time.?
 

There you go, Slash says he wrote lyrics as well. Now what?
Yes, he didn't write all the lyrics, but to claim he had very little to do with them is wrong.

Dover's name appears on every song except for Monkey Chow, Be the Ball and the instrumental? Just what is he being credited for here, bongo playing?

Ehh, yes. How else is Slash supposed to provide his ideas for the next Guns album? Or are you wanting to Slash to not provide ideas for a GN'R album, featuring Slash?

Well, you can write songs and song ideas. You don't need to present a bunch of Southern Rock and claim that's the songs. No work required by the others.

This is simply Axl's viewpoint. Slash's is, rather, different. 'Southern rock' was a term used by Duff and is a bit disingenuous considering Duff co-wrote one of the songs.

This site isn't for people who love AC/DC with a bias against GN'R. Sorry.

You are quite obsessed with the DC thing, aren't you. You must have missed the bit in which I said 'I am a bigger GN'R fan than a DC fan'.

[jarmo]

Oh dear!! He existed as one name underneath one of Illusion's more embarrassing songs. I think he was also credited for Shadow of Your Love, an obscure b-side! The point is that Tobias had never played for a signed band and  recorded/released an album of which, he had written the majority of the songs - until he was hired. To claim that he had worthier songwriting credentials than Gilby is absurd.

You make one point, which is wrong. So then you gotta make a new one to try to prove you're right. Funny stuff.
He had a history of writing music that ended up on GN'R releases. Gilby didn't. End of story!

Gilby did a great job touring and recording the cover songs. But songwriting for a band like GN'R maybe wasn't his strong point.

He wrote the majority of them. The only one he didn't write was Be the Ball and Gilby's song, Monkey Chow.

Stop claiming this as a fact!

“He and I wrote lyrics for all twelve tracks and I think it’s pretty easy to tell which songs he wrote and which ones I wrote: all of my songs are directed at one person…though no one picked up on it at the time.”
 

There you go, Slash says he wrote lyrics as well. Now what?
Yes, he didn't write all the lyrics, but to claim he had very little to do with them is wrong.

Dover's name appears on every song except for Monkey Chow, Be the Ball and the instrumental? Just what is he being credited for here, bongo playing?

So you're saying Slash lied? 
Those are his words from his so called autobiography.

Is it possible that.... You're wrong?

This is simply Axl's viewpoint. Slash's is, rather, different. 'Southern rock' was a term used by Duff and is a bit disingenuous considering Duff co-wrote one of the songs.

Axl's viewpoint and Duff's. Two, at the time, sober people.

You are quite obsessed with the DC thing, aren't you. You must have missed the bit in which I said 'I am a bigger GN'R fan than a DC fan'.

Just find it amusing how capable you're of defending AC/DC and yet spend s much time whining about GN'R. Especially Axl.

Funny that.




/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

You make one point, which is wrong. So then you gotta make a new one to try to prove you're right. Funny stuff.
He had a history of writing music that ended up on GN'R releases. Gilby didn't. End of story!

Gilby did a great job touring and recording the cover songs. But songwriting for a band like GN'R maybe wasn't his strong point.

Tobias has an obscure co-credit, on two obscure GN'R songs. Gilby had written and recorded extensively as part of a signed entity. Also, Gilby was already a member of GN'R publicly. What is the logic of bringing in a new band member, featuring him live, including his face on the photos, in the booklets, etc, if you are only going to fire him because you 'do not rate his songwriting?'. If Gilby was recruited as merely a stand-in, it should have been like a Darryl Jones scenario.

Would it not be logical and fair to at least try and write with him. Axl's firing also caused bad blood with Slash and Duff. Should there not have been some element of, consultation here, on both the Gilby firing and the Tobias hiring.

So you're saying Slash lied? 
Those are his words from his so called autobiography.

Is it possible that.... You're wrong?

From that quote, Slash implies there were lyrically some Slash songs and some Eric. Since all of the songwriting credits except for Be the Ball, Gilby's and the instrumental contain Dover's name, that means Eric was also writing on Slash's songs also. Just what is he contributing here, to obtain a songwriting credit? Please tell me? Seeing that Dover wrote the lyrics to the songs Slash says he wrote in your quote, yet also co-wrote the lyrics to Slash's songs, we can assume that Eric wrote a lot of lyrics. Assuming a 50/50 split (and I freely admit, I am assuming a lot here), that would be 75%.

Besides we are splitting hairs here. None of Dover's lyrics existed when the DAT was produced for Axl. Fact. The DAT had 12 songs on it. I think it is fair to say that those 12 correspond with the 12 Slash mentions in your quote. At best, Axl told a half truth, or a half lie.

Axl's viewpoint and Duff's. Two, at the time, sober people.

Here we go again, the old 'sober', 'drug addicts' line. Slash was drinking a bit then but there are enough interviews from that period which shows he was coherent and in control. It is funny but the sobriety issue does not seem to apply to Stinson who is rarely sober!

Just find it amusing how capable you're of defending AC/DC and yet spend s much time whining about GN'R. Especially Axl.

I do not believe I have ever defended DC here to any great extent. I mean if you want me to defend one of their lousier 1980s albums such as Fly on the Wall, it is not going to happen Jarmo.

[Sosso]

Fly on the Wall was actulally not that bad. Really good songs with a wrong production.