New song-writing rights

[mortismurphy]

They all gained publishing royalties. The Illusion booklet credit does not have any impact on the ASCAP credit.

[TheBaconman]

I think it's just the way they decided to put it down in the liner notes of the album. They still got paid equally.

Awwww see there is where I don't think they did 

Maybe not. There's some piece of info we're missing to know for sure.

Yes there is something missing other than our opinion     I still want to know.   And it's 4am here.   And I am being good

[TheBaconman]

Just watched a video by a great band No Doubt, song.... Sunday morning

Actually watched probably 10 times tonight. M. Love it. 


Gwen.  Is my girl.   Thing is.  She left to do her solo career.    I read into it.  The boys made a ton of her blonde ass in the band.    Then she left.   Made mad cash as a solo artist    Then came back to the band

So?


Should would of been the best thing for gnr?

[raindogs70]

No Doubt was around almost as long as GnR were, most of her solo stuff wouldn't have worked as No Doubt songs and all the collaborations she did was a good change of pace from what she had been doing with them. I think it's because they worked through tragedy early on and her brother leaving the band before they hit it big (but still wrote songs with them) and her and Tony having broken up before the band made it big, they put a lot of the drama behind them.

She's in the same position Stevie Nicks is in,  they can choose to work in a band or stay solo, but both found a nice balance in doing either one. Axl's more like Eddie Van Halen when it comes to the band, they don't see a point to doing solo projects. I think he should go the Maynard Keenan route of quirky side projects just to have fun performing, step outside of being "Axl Rose" once in a while and do projects he would never do in GNR.

[Spirit]

They all gained publishing royalties. The Illusion booklet credit does not have any impact on the ASCAP credit.

Are you 100% sure it was like that since 1991. That the ASCAP credits didn't change at any point after the release?

There could be a scenario where the booklet credits and the ASCAP credits were identical at the time of the release, and then years later, it changed.

[sky dog]

I don't think so.....

[Spirit]

I don't think so.....

Yeah, you're right. Just checked the UYI booklets. It's Guns N Roses Music ASCAP, not individual publishing companies.

[Spirit]

The only thing that remains a mystery to me then is Chinese Democracy. The discrepancy between the publishing credits in the booklet and the actual ones in the ASCAP directory.

Could it be anything else than a error-filled booklet?

[mortismurphy]

The only thing that remains a mystery to me then is Chinese Democracy. The discrepancy between the publishing credits in the booklet and the actual ones in the ASCAP directory.

Could it be anything else than a error-filled booklet?

I have not had a look at the CD ASCAP credits but it might even be a scenario of having three credit.

- The 'erroneous' booklet one
- the 'correct' booklet one
- the publishing one

I do know that Robin was the main loser of the erroneous credit, comparing his contributions in the correct booklet,

[jazjme]

The only thing that remains a mystery to me then is Chinese Democracy. The discrepancy between the publishing credits in the booklet and the actual ones in the ASCAP directory.

Could it be anything else than a error-filled booklet?

I have not had a look at the CD ASCAP credits but it might even be a scenario of having three credit.

- The 'erroneous' booklet one
- the 'correct' booklet one
- the publishing one

I do know that Robin was the main loser of the erroneous credit, comparing his contributions in the correct booklet,

and you know this how?

[mortismurphy]

The only thing that remains a mystery to me then is Chinese Democracy. The discrepancy between the publishing credits in the booklet and the actual ones in the ASCAP directory.

Could it be anything else than a error-filled booklet?

I have not had a look at the CD ASCAP credits but it might even be a scenario of having three credit.

- The 'erroneous' booklet one
- the 'correct' booklet one
- the publishing one

I do know that Robin was the main loser of the erroneous credit, comparing his contributions in the correct booklet,

and you know this how?

The correct booklet (the grenade or red hand cover) is easily obtainable online. Have a look for yourself; you will see that Robin is credited for Shackler's and Catcher. Stinson and Reed also get credited for Catcher. Tobias loses a credit for Prostitute.

I already assume you own the erroneous (bike) booklet.

The ASCAP credits, quoting from another forum (because I can not be bothered to go into the ASCAP database),

1. Chinese Democracy
Album credits: Axl, Josh Freese
ASCAP: Axl, Josh Freese, Robin, Tommy, Dizzy, Paul, Eric Caudieux and Caram Costanzo

2. Shackler's Revenge
Album credits: Axl, Buckethead, Caram Costanzo, Brain and Pete Scaturro
ASCAP: Axl, Buckethead, Robin, Caram Costanzo, Brain and Pete Scaturro

3. Better
Album credits: Axl, Robin
ASCAP: Axl, Robin

4. Street of Dreams
Album credits: Axl, Dizzy and Tommy
ASCAP: Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, Robin and Paul

5. If The World
Album credits: Axl, Chris
ASCAP: Axl, Chris

6. There Was A Time
Album credits: Axl, Paul and Dizzy
ASCAP: Axl, Paul, Tommy and Dizzy

7. Catcher in the Rye
Album credits: Axl and Paul
ASCAP: Axl, Paul, Robin, Dizzy and Tommy

8. Scraped
Album credits: Axl, Buckethead and Caram Costanzo
ASCAP: Axl, Buckethead and Caram Costanzo

9. Riad and the Bedouins
Album credits: Axl, Tommy
ASCAP: Axl, Tommy, Robin, Dizzy and Paul

10. Sorry
Album credits: Axl, Buckethead, Brain and Pete Scaturro
ASCAP: Axl, Buckethead, Brain and Pete Scaturro

11. IRS
Album credits: Axl, Paul and Dizzy
ASCAP: Axl, Paul and Dizzy

12. Madagascar
Album credits: Axl, Chris
ASCAP: Axl, Chris and Martin Luther King 14

13. This I Love
Album credits: Axl
ASCAP: Axl

14. Prostitute
Album credits: Axl, Paul
ASCAP: Axl, Paul and Robin

http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=7377&p=1

Three sets of credits for Chinese Democracy.

[jazjme]

No my question was you are saying that Robin wrote the others as per the credit in Ascap, but that doesn't make him songwriter. You are saying you know this because of that? I think you are still hung up on Estranged, in your mind.

[mortismurphy]

No my question was you are saying that Robin wrote the others as per the credit in Ascap, but that doesn't make him songwriter. You are saying you know this because of that? I think you are still hung up on Estranged, in your mind.

Robin was robbed of (booklet) songwriting credits (presumably, not royalties) in the sense that, there were errors in the released booklet, removing his name. I do not really know how they worked out the difference between the ASCAP credit and the (unreleased) booklet credit. If I had to guess, there may have been some scheme of 'main writers' and 'peripheral writers' but I don't know. You would probably have to ask a member of the band (as it was then).

My feelings on Estranged have nothing to do with it.

Just one more thing,

With the ASCAP democracy credit, they have not employed the scheme they used on the old albums whereby all the full time band members had a business arrangement and got credited. But then those were all full time 'partners' (even Adler on Appetite) and there is only one partner left now, Axl. Matt and Dizzy were not getting credits on Illusion either.

[mortismurphy]

If you put 'Chinese Democracy grenade artwork' into google images, and scroll through the various artworks for the listed songs, you will see that,

Chinese Democracy's, Shackler's Revenge's (+ Finck) and Catcher's (+Stinson, Finck, Reed) credit are the same as the ASCAP credit. The alternative booklet is therefore closer to the ASCAP but there are still differences,

Prostitute on the bicycle booklet is 'Rose, Tobias', on the alternative booklet 'Rose', on ASCAP 'Rose, Tobias, Finck'!.

Extra ASCAP 'Finck, Tobias' credit on Streets of Dreams.

Extra ASCAP 'Stinson' credit on TWAT

Extra ASCAP 'Finck, Reed, Tobias' on Riad

ASCAP 'Martin Luther King 14' on Maddy.

I wouldn't be surprised if the alternative artwork had errors also and the ASCAP credit is the bona fide one that would have went out for the booklet also. The removal of Tobias on the alternative booklet seems to support that theory. I would certainly not rule that possibility out.

[sky dog]

band members want credit with ASCAP because that is how they get paid as "writers".....pretty simple. The booklets do not put coin in their pocket.

[nick6sic6]

Perhaps when the whole music industry changed around 1998-2000 there were some changes in the way ASCAP works and credits the artists too.
That was when Geffen was bought by Universal.And that also was when Axl's new boss cut the funds for CD by the way.
So yes,maybe the song-writing credits changed along the way.

[sky dog]

pretty sure they didn't. 

Funds were cut on Axl in 2004...had nothing to do with writing credits. 


'Having exceeded all budgeted and approved recording costs by millions of dollars,' the label wrote in a letter dated Feb. 2, 2004, 'it is Mr. Rose's obligation to fund and complete the album, not Geffen's.'

[sky dog]

Tobias ascap writing credits

1.BACK OFF BITCH Work ID: 320373851

2.CATCHER IN THE RYE Work ID: 334474378

3.CHINESE DEMOCRACY Work ID: 334393698

4.I.R.S. Work ID: 393950199

5.JUNKIE Work ID: 400272308

6.OH MY GOD Work ID: 450485146

7.PROSTITUTE Work ID: 463436497

8.RIAD N' THE BEDOUINS Work ID: 482479334

9.SHADOW OF YOUR LOVE Work ID: 490851844

10.SHOTGUN MARY Work ID: 491520468

11.STREET OF DREAMS Work ID: 497227195

12.THERE WAS A TIME Work ID: 506275776

[EmilyGNR]

band members want credit with ASCAP because that is how they get paid as "writers".....pretty simple. The booklets do not put coin in their pocket.

True, it's nice to get a mention in a booklet or on album credits, but the ASCAP credits are the ones that entitle you to moola and pesos 

[GeorgeSteele]

band members want credit with ASCAP because that is how they get paid as "writers".....pretty simple. The booklets do not put coin in their pocket.

True, it's nice to get a mention in a booklet or on album credits, but the ASCAP credits are the ones that entitle you to moola and pesos 

The opposite situation seems kind of odd though, where someone would have no booklet credits, but has ASCAP credits.  For example, I'm clueless as to why Robin would have ASCAP credit on almost every Chinese Democracy song but was noted in the booklet credits for only some of those songs.  I'm sure he'd rather have the $ than the recognition, but still... why not the recognition?