2015 NFL Season

[faldor]

I know you Pat fans are mad and think the punishment is too much (it is)... and you want to give the golden boy every benefit of the doubt that he might be innocent . (he's not)

But they got caught... and then they denied it and snubbed their noses at the league. When the NFL comes to people and want answers for the "best interest of the league" and you don't comply. They get mad... so they hammered them.

That's really it all is... All the nonsense with the math or circumstantial evidence... all that... its meaningless...

All they had to say was we are sorry , we didn't realize how much an issue this would be. Pay a small fine and that's it.

Instead they went to the mattress...and now they are paying for it. Brady is a keeper for me in fantasy too.... fucking ay !

I've readily admitted if they had apologized right out of the gate that this would've played out a lot differently. Probably a small fine, nothing near the punishment they received. BUT, the story was leaked hours after the game ended. Reportedly at halftime, Mike Kensil who works for the league told a Patriots employee that "we measured the balls, and you're f'ed". The league sent a letter to Kraft saying one ball measured as low as 10.1, which was completely untrue as it turns out.

So right out of the gate, the Patriots were under fire. Leaks to the media made them look guilty and added unnecessary stress in the weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. So again, this isn't like the Falcons pumping in crowd noise and nobody finding out about it until after the season. It wasn't a case of the Vikings and Panthers warming their balls on the sideline and getting a warning. The Patriots integrity (insert laugh here) was being challenged and their name was being dragged through the mud. They were forced to react quickly, since the story broke practically before they even finished annihilating the Colts. Maybe, if given more time, they would've reacted differently. We'll never know since the leaks against them became overwhelming.

As for Brady's guilt or innocence. Out of curiosity, what do you think Brady is guilty of? In your opinion what role did he play based on what you've heard or read? Call me a homer, but there's nothing in the report saying Brady likes the balls below the legal limit. Nothing that says he ever instructed anyone to deflate footballs. So are you assuming he's done something along those lines?

[JAEBALL]

I know you Pat fans are mad and think the punishment is too much (it is)... and you want to give the golden boy every benefit of the doubt that he might be innocent . (he's not)

But they got caught... and then they denied it and snubbed their noses at the league. When the NFL comes to people and want answers for the "best interest of the league" and you don't comply. They get mad... so they hammered them.

That's really it all is... All the nonsense with the math or circumstantial evidence... all that... its meaningless...

All they had to say was we are sorry , we didn't realize how much an issue this would be. Pay a small fine and that's it.

Instead they went to the mattress...and now they are paying for it. Brady is a keeper for me in fantasy too.... fucking ay !

I've readily admitted if they had apologized right out of the gate that this would've played out a lot differently. Probably a small fine, nothing near the punishment they received. BUT, the story was leaked hours after the game ended. Reportedly at halftime, Mike Kensil who works for the league told a Patriots employee that "we measured the balls, and you're f'ed". The league sent a letter to Kraft saying one ball measured as low as 10.1, which was completely untrue as it turns out.

So right out of the gate, the Patriots were under fire. Leaks to the media made them look guilty and added unnecessary stress in the weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. So again, this isn't like the Falcons pumping in crowd noise and nobody finding out about it until after the season. It wasn't a case of the Vikings and Panthers warming their balls on the sideline and getting a warning. The Patriots integrity (insert laugh here) was being challenged and their name was being dragged through the mud. They were forced to react quickly, since the story broke practically before they even finished annihilating the Colts. Maybe, if given more time, they would've reacted differently. We'll never know since the leaks against them became overwhelming.

As for Brady's guilt or innocence. Out of curiosity, what do you think Brady is guilty of? In your opinion what role did he play based on what you've heard or read? Call me a homer, but there's nothing in the report saying Brady likes the balls below the legal limit. Nothing that says he ever instructed anyone to deflate footballs. So are you assuming he's done something along those lines?

I simply just do not believe or ever will that anybody working for the Patriots would take air out of those balls without Brady's instruction, approval or blessing. We all agree that somebody did something to those balls right? If we don't, then... I guess we are at an impasse.

So no... there is no smoking gun where he is on tape or video instructing person A to do B, but I have trouble seeing how he was not involved in the process in some fashion.

Again, no dog in the race. Don't dislike the guy or the team.

[faldor]

Yeah, the fact that Goodell had Wells do the investigation and Troy Vincent hand out the penalties, he's made a conscious effort to distance himself from the situation. Brady will most likely have a strong case in court if the suspension is upheld since Goodell is not a judge or lawyer, and can certainly be viewed as being too vested in the matter.

The first part (judge/lawyer) won't matter.  He's granted, under the CBA, the power to act as arbitrator. The judge can't over rule that, since it's collectively bargained.  In fact, Goodell only relinquishes that power at his discretion (or when forced to by the courts)...everything is supposed to go through him.  That LAST bit (too vested) is their foothold.

And THAT's why the NFL set things up the way they did, IMHO.  If a judge is going to rule that way, they are.  But the NFL has done everything in it's power, in this process, to set the chess board up EXACTLY this way, because I'm sure they feel it gives them the most solid legal ground to withstand exactly that challenge (too vested).  Independant investigation, independant penalty assessment....kept him "above the fray", at least as much as they possibly could.

Goodell could play it 2 ways. He could try to save whatever relationship he has with Kraft and cut the suspension to 2 games. Give him 2 games for lack of full cooperation. Or he could stick to his guns and uphold the 4 games. That's the way I see it going. I don't think the Patriots response to the Wells report doesn't help them in this situation. You could say they're forcing the NFL's hand. But the NFL did the same exact thing to them by instituting such a harsh penalty. Kraft, according to his initial statement, was fully willing to accept a "fair" punishment. They didn't get that, so they responded accordingly.

The difference is: The penalty has to be made public by it's nature.  The report is public because that's the CBA process, once it's complete.

The response does not fit any of that.  It's not their right to do it, especially in public.

They're antagonizing the league by doing that.  The Pats have until the 21st (as an org) to appeal their penalty to Goodell, directly.  The response they have...right there...is the body of what should have been presented DIRECTLY TO HIM.  They chose to end around him, and just try to play it out in the court of public opinion.

Brady filed his appeal yesterday.  Much of the response could have been/should be used as part of his "defense".  Instead, they decided to fight it out in the court of public opinion, too. 

Again, this scorched earth thing for the Pats smacks wildly of the similar tactics taken by Arod.  I'm not going to commesurate the "guilt"...but that process did not make him friends in the MLB front offices, or amongst the other players.  All you're doing is besmirching, and antagonizing, your league.

The OTHER problem with that is, quite frankly, it's horrific strategy.  The Pats/Brady just basically blew their load, in public.  The league now knows pretty much exactly what their defense is going to be...and whoever's presenting that side, in the hearing, now knows EXACTLY which points to assail, and which bits of evidence they need to undermine and call into question.  It's like the defense attorney going out and handing his trial strategy to the press before they even make opening statements.  The prosecutor would LOVE that...because they have extra time to craft their strategy to undermine it.

I think it's doubtful that the Patriots take this to court as an organization. Probably the reason that they decided to release their response to the public. This is all about Brady, as the league has made it that way. They certainly wouldn't have been happy with the million dollar fine and loss of 2 draft picks, but the Brady suspension is the easiest thing to fight. I think that's where the sole focus is from here on out.

One more thing. I still say the penalty would've been a lot less if the Patriots didn't challenge the league. But they were facing some pretty serious (false) allegations. The erroneous report Mortensen gave that 11 of the 12 balls measured 2 psi below the limit and one as low as 10.1 forced the wheels in motion on each side. The NFL had to take the situation seriously based on that report. It wasn't like putting balls in front of a heater. Plus the fact that they were tipped off to this prior to the game. Action had to be taken. It's not so easy to accept wrongdoing when it's perceived to be at THAT level.

[faldor]

I know you Pat fans are mad and think the punishment is too much (it is)... and you want to give the golden boy every benefit of the doubt that he might be innocent . (he's not)

But they got caught... and then they denied it and snubbed their noses at the league. When the NFL comes to people and want answers for the "best interest of the league" and you don't comply. They get mad... so they hammered them.

That's really it all is... All the nonsense with the math or circumstantial evidence... all that... its meaningless...

All they had to say was we are sorry , we didn't realize how much an issue this would be. Pay a small fine and that's it.

Instead they went to the mattress...and now they are paying for it. Brady is a keeper for me in fantasy too.... fucking ay !

I've readily admitted if they had apologized right out of the gate that this would've played out a lot differently. Probably a small fine, nothing near the punishment they received. BUT, the story was leaked hours after the game ended. Reportedly at halftime, Mike Kensil who works for the league told a Patriots employee that "we measured the balls, and you're f'ed". The league sent a letter to Kraft saying one ball measured as low as 10.1, which was completely untrue as it turns out.

So right out of the gate, the Patriots were under fire. Leaks to the media made them look guilty and added unnecessary stress in the weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. So again, this isn't like the Falcons pumping in crowd noise and nobody finding out about it until after the season. It wasn't a case of the Vikings and Panthers warming their balls on the sideline and getting a warning. The Patriots integrity (insert laugh here) was being challenged and their name was being dragged through the mud. They were forced to react quickly, since the story broke practically before they even finished annihilating the Colts. Maybe, if given more time, they would've reacted differently. We'll never know since the leaks against them became overwhelming.

As for Brady's guilt or innocence. Out of curiosity, what do you think Brady is guilty of? In your opinion what role did he play based on what you've heard or read? Call me a homer, but there's nothing in the report saying Brady likes the balls below the legal limit. Nothing that says he ever instructed anyone to deflate footballs. So are you assuming he's done something along those lines?

I simply just do not believe or ever will that anybody working for the Patriots would take air out of those balls without Brady's instruction, approval or blessing. We all agree that somebody did something to those balls right? If we don't, then... I guess we are at an impasse.

So no... there is no smoking gun where he is on tape or video instructing person A to do B, but I have trouble seeing how he was not involved in the process in some fashion.

Again, no dog in the race. Don't dislike the guy or the team.

I agree with you, but how does that equate to guilt exactly? If he tells the ball boy he likes the balls at 12.5 and they take too much air out, is that Tom's fault? If he specifically told them to take air out of the balls after the refs checked them, or that he liked the balls below the legal limit, then we're onto something. But there's no indication of anything like that happening.

[JAEBALL]

I know you Pat fans are mad and think the punishment is too much (it is)... and you want to give the golden boy every benefit of the doubt that he might be innocent . (he's not)

But they got caught... and then they denied it and snubbed their noses at the league. When the NFL comes to people and want answers for the "best interest of the league" and you don't comply. They get mad... so they hammered them.

That's really it all is... All the nonsense with the math or circumstantial evidence... all that... its meaningless...

All they had to say was we are sorry , we didn't realize how much an issue this would be. Pay a small fine and that's it.

Instead they went to the mattress...and now they are paying for it. Brady is a keeper for me in fantasy too.... fucking ay !

I've readily admitted if they had apologized right out of the gate that this would've played out a lot differently. Probably a small fine, nothing near the punishment they received. BUT, the story was leaked hours after the game ended. Reportedly at halftime, Mike Kensil who works for the league told a Patriots employee that "we measured the balls, and you're f'ed". The league sent a letter to Kraft saying one ball measured as low as 10.1, which was completely untrue as it turns out.

So right out of the gate, the Patriots were under fire. Leaks to the media made them look guilty and added unnecessary stress in the weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. So again, this isn't like the Falcons pumping in crowd noise and nobody finding out about it until after the season. It wasn't a case of the Vikings and Panthers warming their balls on the sideline and getting a warning. The Patriots integrity (insert laugh here) was being challenged and their name was being dragged through the mud. They were forced to react quickly, since the story broke practically before they even finished annihilating the Colts. Maybe, if given more time, they would've reacted differently. We'll never know since the leaks against them became overwhelming.

As for Brady's guilt or innocence. Out of curiosity, what do you think Brady is guilty of? In your opinion what role did he play based on what you've heard or read? Call me a homer, but there's nothing in the report saying Brady likes the balls below the legal limit. Nothing that says he ever instructed anyone to deflate footballs. So are you assuming he's done something along those lines?

I simply just do not believe or ever will that anybody working for the Patriots would take air out of those balls without Brady's instruction, approval or blessing. We all agree that somebody did something to those balls right? If we don't, then... I guess we are at an impasse.

So no... there is no smoking gun where he is on tape or video instructing person A to do B, but I have trouble seeing how he was not involved in the process in some fashion.

Again, no dog in the race. Don't dislike the guy or the team.

I agree with you, but how does that equate to guilt exactly? If he tells the ball boy he likes the balls at 12.5 and they take too much air out, is that Tom's fault? If he specifically told them to take air out of the balls after the refs checked them, or that he liked the balls below the legal limit, then we're onto something. But there's no indication of anything like that happening.

I buy the premise... but unfortunately the Pats history make it difficult to buy this is all a big misunderstanding of some sort.

Why did Brady refuse to cooperate at all? Maybe you guys touched on that, so if you did I apologize.

[faldor]

He cooperated for the most part, answered every question asked of him. The only thing he didn't do was provide relevant texts and emails. His reasoning, along with agent, etc. was that he didn't want to set a precedent for future players in similar situations. They also claimed that the Wells would already have all the relevant texts and emails since they already had the phones from McNally and Jastermski. Any conversations with them were already in the report. Steven Gostkowski also refused to hand over his phone but he wasn't reprimanded for that and was ultimately cleared. That's really all they have on Brady. Enough to constitute a 4 game suspension or assume guilt? Obviously some feel it is, others not so much.

I admit that something was probably done to those balls, but I just am not convinced that Tom ordered the code red. He's also a first time offender despite the Patriots checkered past as an organization. Unless you think he was an instrumental part in Spygate.

[faldor]

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4781554/follow-up-thoughts-on-the-patriots-rebuttal

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- A few follow-up thoughts on the Patriots' website, Wellsreportcontext.com, with another day to digest it all:

1. In a letter to attorney Ted Wells detailing their level of cooperation, the Patriots pointed out evidence that Jacksonville personnel had seen Indianapolis ball boys with needles hidden up their sleeves. Our hunch on that one: A former Patriots equipment assistant spent one season in Jacksonville a few years ago and that might explain how that came up in the report.

2. How could someone from the NFL not take possession of the Patriots' footballs the night of the AFC title game? The Patriots ultimately sent the footballs to Wells themselves. Think about that for a moment: The Patriots were fined $1 million, lost a 2016 first-round draft pick, a 2017 fourth-round draft pick and quarterback Tom Brady was suspended for the first four games of the 2016 regular season ... and the NFL didn't even take the primary evidence with them on the night they began the investigation.

3. One area in which the Patriots probably would like a "re-do" is how they initially described their connection to Roderick MacKinnon, the Nobel Prize winner whose scientific conclusions supported the team. The club initially noted that MacKinnon had "no direct business or personal relationship with the Patriots." But about four hours after the website was officially launched, the Patriots added a line for clarity, explaining that prior to MacKinnon's Flex Pharma going public, the investment arm of The Kraft Group made a passive investment as part of a large syndicated investor group.

4. Jim McNally allowed himself to be interviewed by NFL security the night of the AFC title game, doing so without a member of the organization present. That isn't necessarily consistent with someone who has something to hide.

5. Wells report investigators said part of why they didn't believe Tom Brady was that he said he didn't know McNally, which they said was contradicted in testimony from others. But that might have been because Brady only knew McNally by his nickname -- "Bird." Brady actually referred to him as "Burt" when asked by investigators about his nickname, which the Patriots said reflected how little he knew about McNally. That was interesting to me because it ties to how believable Brady was in his testimony.

6. The league didn't give the Patriots the PSI measurements of the footballs at halftime until March 23, which was 64 days after the game. It did so under the condition that the results not be released to the media until the Wells report was issued. It is puzzling why the NFL took this course of action, essentially putting handcuffs on the Patriots from defending themselves from media leaks that were incorrect yet shaped public perception.

[pilferk]

I know you Pat fans are mad and think the punishment is too much (it is)... and you want to give the golden boy every benefit of the doubt that he might be innocent . (he's not)

But they got caught... and then they denied it and snubbed their noses at the league. When the NFL comes to people and want answers for the "best interest of the league" and you don't comply. They get mad... so they hammered them.

That's really it all is... All the nonsense with the math or circumstantial evidence... all that... its meaningless...

All they had to say was we are sorry , we didn't realize how much an issue this would be. Pay a small fine and that's it.

Instead they went to the mattress...and now they are paying for it. Brady is a keeper for me in fantasy too.... fucking ay !

I've readily admitted if they had apologized right out of the gate that this would've played out a lot differently. Probably a small fine, nothing near the punishment they received. BUT, the story was leaked hours after the game ended. Reportedly at halftime, Mike Kensil who works for the league told a Patriots employee that "we measured the balls, and you're f'ed". The league sent a letter to Kraft saying one ball measured as low as 10.1, which was completely untrue as it turns out.

So right out of the gate, the Patriots were under fire. Leaks to the media made them look guilty and added unnecessary stress in the weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. So again, this isn't like the Falcons pumping in crowd noise and nobody finding out about it until after the season. It wasn't a case of the Vikings and Panthers warming their balls on the sideline and getting a warning. The Patriots integrity (insert laugh here) was being challenged and their name was being dragged through the mud. They were forced to react quickly, since the story broke practically before they even finished annihilating the Colts. Maybe, if given more time, they would've reacted differently. We'll never know since the leaks against them became overwhelming.

As for Brady's guilt or innocence. Out of curiosity, what do you think Brady is guilty of? In your opinion what role did he play based on what you've heard or read? Call me a homer, but there's nothing in the report saying Brady likes the balls below the legal limit. Nothing that says he ever instructed anyone to deflate footballs. So are you assuming he's done something along those lines?

I simply just do not believe or ever will that anybody working for the Patriots would take air out of those balls without Brady's instruction, approval or blessing. We all agree that somebody did something to those balls right? If we don't, then... I guess we are at an impasse.

So no... there is no smoking gun where he is on tape or video instructing person A to do B, but I have trouble seeing how he was not involved in the process in some fashion.

Again, no dog in the race. Don't dislike the guy or the team.

The "a few good men" concept. . Tom brady s jack nicholson. They want him on that line...they need him on that line....

[pilferk]

Yeah, the fact that Goodell had Wells do the investigation and Troy Vincent hand out the penalties, he's made a conscious effort to distance himself from the situation. Brady will most likely have a strong case in court if the suspension is upheld since Goodell is not a judge or lawyer, and can certainly be viewed as being too vested in the matter.

The first part (judge/lawyer) won't matter.  He's granted, under the CBA, the power to act as arbitrator. The judge can't over rule that, since it's collectively bargained.  In fact, Goodell only relinquishes that power at his discretion (or when forced to by the courts)...everything is supposed to go through him.  That LAST bit (too vested) is their foothold.

And THAT's why the NFL set things up the way they did, IMHO.  If a judge is going to rule that way, they are.  But the NFL has done everything in it's power, in this process, to set the chess board up EXACTLY this way, because I'm sure they feel it gives them the most solid legal ground to withstand exactly that challenge (too vested).  Independant investigation, independant penalty assessment....kept him "above the fray", at least as much as they possibly could.

Goodell could play it 2 ways. He could try to save whatever relationship he has with Kraft and cut the suspension to 2 games. Give him 2 games for lack of full cooperation. Or he could stick to his guns and uphold the 4 games. That's the way I see it going. I don't think the Patriots response to the Wells report doesn't help them in this situation. You could say they're forcing the NFL's hand. But the NFL did the same exact thing to them by instituting such a harsh penalty. Kraft, according to his initial statement, was fully willing to accept a "fair" punishment. They didn't get that, so they responded accordingly.

The difference is: The penalty has to be made public by it's nature.  The report is public because that's the CBA process, once it's complete.

The response does not fit any of that.  It's not their right to do it, especially in public.

They're antagonizing the league by doing that.  The Pats have until the 21st (as an org) to appeal their penalty to Goodell, directly.  The response they have...right there...is the body of what should have been presented DIRECTLY TO HIM.  They chose to end around him, and just try to play it out in the court of public opinion.

Brady filed his appeal yesterday.  Much of the response could have been/should be used as part of his "defense".  Instead, they decided to fight it out in the court of public opinion, too. 

Again, this scorched earth thing for the Pats smacks wildly of the similar tactics taken by Arod.  I'm not going to commesurate the "guilt"...but that process did not make him friends in the MLB front offices, or amongst the other players.  All you're doing is besmirching, and antagonizing, your league.

The OTHER problem with that is, quite frankly, it's horrific strategy.  The Pats/Brady just basically blew their load, in public.  The league now knows pretty much exactly what their defense is going to be...and whoever's presenting that side, in the hearing, now knows EXACTLY which points to assail, and which bits of evidence they need to undermine and call into question.  It's like the defense attorney going out and handing his trial strategy to the press before they even make opening statements.  The prosecutor would LOVE that...because they have extra time to craft their strategy to undermine it.

I think it's doubtful that the Patriots take this to court as an organization. Probably the reason that they decided to release their response to the public. This is all about Brady, as the league has made it that way. They certainly wouldn't have been happy with the million dollar fine and loss of 2 draft picks, but the Brady suspension is the easiest thing to fight. I think that's where the sole focus is from here on out.

One more thing. I still say the penalty would've been a lot less if the Patriots didn't challenge the league. But they were facing some pretty serious (false) allegations. The erroneous report Mortensen gave that 11 of the 12 balls measured 2 psi below the limit and one as low as 10.1 forced the wheels in motion on each side. The NFL had to take the situation seriously based on that report. It wasn't like putting balls in front of a heater. Plus the fact that they were tipped off to this prior to the game. Action had to be taken. It's not so easy to accept wrongdoing when it's perceived to be at THAT level.

I agree...the penalty would be less.

But, heres the thing, the "level" doesnt matter. The rule says equip tampering is a 20k fine. No matter if its 1 psi or 4 psi. So, the "level" wouldnt effect the fine. It might have been 20k per ball...i'm not sure how the leGue would apply it. But, even then....doesnt matter "the level" of tampering.

[faldor]

The level may not matter in terms of punishment, but in the Patriots minds it matters how the misinformation was reported. If the actual figures came out right away, which were far less inflammatory than what was reported, they may not have felt the need to defend themselves so vehemently. If there were no leaks and things were dealt with behind the scenes, which is what happened in most all other cases of rules violations, they wouldn't have had to go on the defensive.

Through this whole process, I think it's been more about how poorly the situation was handled rather than the infraction itself.

[pilferk]

The level may not matter in terms of punishment, but in the Patriots minds it matters how the misinformation was reported. If the actual figures came out right away, which were far less inflammatory than what was reported, they may not have felt the need to defend themselves so vehemently. If there were no leaks and things were dealt with behind the scenes, which is what happened in most all other cases of rules violations, they wouldn't have had to go on the defensive.

Through this whole process, I think it's been more about how poorly the situation was handled rather than the infraction itself.

Agree.

The first thing any good defense attorney says is: keep your mouth shut. Doesnt matter what the cops say. Doesnt matter what the press says. You get your say during the process.

I'd say the pats would have been better served, no matter how "inflammatory" the information was...considering the potential penalties, and the fact none of it mattered in that respect...by issuing a "we will not comment on an ongoing nfl investigation until such time as the findings are issued".

If you want to say the misinformation baited them into comment....maybe so. But they didnt have to bite in the manner they did.  When they did, they all but forced the NFL to make it into a much bigger deal, or lse credibility.

The other thing  is, in weighing pros and cons, if you stay silent, eventually the league has to issue a mea culpa/correction in the press over the bad info AND it comes much quicker because you dont have the 4 month indie investigation.

I just don't see the benefit....innocent or guilty...of taking such an aggressive stance. Not even in the court of public opinion, which, ultimately, doesnt matter. The Pats were not going to "lose  fans" over this. Those that dont like them might have had further justification for an already held opinion. And those outside looking in mght have been interested in The ult findings.  But its the huge media shitstorm this has brewed up thats done most of the "damage". And, again, i dont think you get that if this is a blip on the radar, and not the deflategate missle crisis.

[Sober_times]

I'm getting tired of this story. It keeps pulling me back in but I think I'll make one more post on my thoughts with it and why I think they reacted so strongly. Then go silent for a bit unless there is a bigger development with the story(of course I say that knowing it will pull me back in ).

First, here's a new piece by Florio.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/17/nfl-should-improve-its-in-house-system-of-justic/

Obviously I agree with Florio here, mostly. I don't think the Patriots, in this particular instance, did anything to the footballs. I think they run a fine line with the rulebook and I don't believe they do stuff that is outright illegal. I think they flirt with what is close and blur the lines at times. Belichick comes from a coaching tree that suggests that was how he was brought up in the game and his most revered head coach was a guy like that(Paul Brown). I think that is what happened with Spy-gate(which reports have stated that Bill tried to argue that the rulebook said he could still run a camera as long as the camerman was at a certain position with Patriots gear and the signals weren't used during that particular game). I believed Brady's post game press conference. I paid attention to the scientific analysis the Patriots did and what has come since from various sources. I don't think the Patriots personnel guy took the balls into the bathroom then took all 11 out and in roughly 90 seconds deflated each one at about .3 - .5 PSI. I say .3 - .5 because that would be the amount lower than the Ideal Gas Law that one of gauges recorded. The other gauge showed the footballs were within range.

I think the Patriots came out so strongly because of Robert Kraft. I think he asked Belichick, Brady and others if they did anything and when they said no, him and Belichick decided to do that press conference. I think Kraft thought that would be enough. That people would believe Belichick and Brady and then the team can move on, prepare for the Superbowl and the story will die down as the league investigates. I think Kraft got more and more upset over the leaks and as time went on his emotion over took him. After his wife died, he's getting older and wants to protect his Legacy(some reports suggest). Kraft saw the media reaction, the continued leaks, saw how the NFL was investigating it and lost it. He didn't like everyone calling Tom Brady a liar and a cheat. He didn't like his team being called cheaters. He thought it was bull shit and wanted to respond harshly and did. Asking for the apology I think supports that. He felt it got personel. That his team and his players were being railroaded. Maybe him being a fan for so many years before buying the team had something to do with it too. Maybe that shapes it a little differently.

I'm glad they came out swinging as a fan of the team. I wanted them to give an explanation. In all honesty I was really disappointed at first. I don't believe I was looking for an explanation to believe, i just wanted one, and the one they gave seemed plausible to me. And I believe the science backs it up. I don't think Brady did anything wrong. And I think the Patriots are paying for a reputation of skirting the rules and not for actually breaking them or skirting them in this particular instance.

[faldor]

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/18/robert-kraft-patriots-owner-nfl-deflategate/

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12910531/new-england-patriots-nfl-working-resolution-issues-deflategate-penalties

[Sober_times]

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/18/robert-kraft-patriots-owner-nfl-deflategate/

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12910531/new-england-patriots-nfl-working-resolution-issues-deflategate-penalties

See? Pulled back in already. 

For some reason I'm thinking those back channel talks are more about trying to shut Kraft up more than anything else. Especially with owner meetings this week. Other owners and league personnel are probably telling him to tone it down. Maybe even some type of veiled threats if he continues down this path. 

[pilferk]

Reports surfacing that Kraft will accept (reluctantly) the Pats punishment, with NO changes/reductions to it.  Will not sue, will not continue "attack" against NFL/investigation, and will (shortly) remove/take down the "wells report context" site.

We'll see.....

Brady's appeal, however, will continue.

Buster Olney's take, via twitter, is kinda funny:
"Kraft/Patriots handled this like most baseball fights play out: "Let me at him! I'll get you! Let me at him! Let me at him! Er, never mind.""

[faldor]

Reports surfacing that Kraft will accept (reluctantly) the Pats punishment, with NO changes/reductions to it.  Will not sue, will not continue "attack" against NFL/investigation, and will (shortly) remove/take down the "wells report context" site.

We'll see.....

Brady's appeal, however, will continue.

Buster Olney's take, via twitter, is kinda funny:
"Kraft/Patriots handled this like most baseball fights play out: "Let me at him! I'll get you! Let me at him! Let me at him! Er, never mind.""

Speculation is they had discussions and Kraft agreed to end the fight as long as Tom's suspension is reduced, or eliminated altogether. Not sure I completely buy that. I think Brady has a pretty good chance at getting a reduction without any back room dealings. And I never thought Kraft wanted to go to court with this. Maybe he took such a hard stance hoping that the league would bend. That too though, was never going to happen. So I'm not sure there was anything more to this, than Kraft realizing he had nowhere else to go except to court, and he wasn't about to go the way of Al Davis and sue the league and the other 31 owners. And I still think Goodell, or whoever he may be forced to appoint, could stick to their guns with the 4 game suspension and leave it up to the courts. That way, they don't get accused of going easy on them or anything.

[Sober_times]

I'll stick with my theory that owners told him to knock it off and he listened. Goodell and him have been close so its entirely possible Goodell told Kraft he would be fair in listening to Brady's appeal. I don't think he would promise anything or Kraft would make some type of deal where the suspension gets knocked down. I can't imagine the NFLPA or Brady being very happy if Kraft comes to him and says, hey accept 2 game or something along those lines. Really, I don't see Brady not going to court unless the entirety of the suspension is lifted.

[pilferk]

Reports surfacing that Kraft will accept (reluctantly) the Pats punishment, with NO changes/reductions to it.  Will not sue, will not continue "attack" against NFL/investigation, and will (shortly) remove/take down the "wells report context" site.

We'll see.....

Brady's appeal, however, will continue.

Buster Olney's take, via twitter, is kinda funny:
"Kraft/Patriots handled this like most baseball fights play out: "Let me at him! I'll get you! Let me at him! Let me at him! Er, never mind.""

Speculation is they had discussions and Kraft agreed to end the fight as long as Tom's suspension is reduced, or eliminated altogether. Not sure I completely buy that. I think Brady has a pretty good chance at getting a reduction without any back room dealings. And I never thought Kraft wanted to go to court with this. Maybe he took such a hard stance hoping that the league would bend. That too though, was never going to happen. So I'm not sure there was anything more to this, than Kraft realizing he had nowhere else to go except to court, and he wasn't about to go the way of Al Davis and sue the league and the other 31 owners. And I still think Goodell, or whoever he may be forced to appoint, could stick to their guns with the 4 game suspension and leave it up to the courts. That way, they don't get accused of going easy on them or anything.

As much as many of us disagree on the whats and wheres and howtofors....that suspension SHOULD be reduced to 2 games, at most. 

[pilferk]

I'll stick with my theory that owners told him to knock it off and he listened. Goodell and him have been close so its entirely possible Goodell told Kraft he would be fair in listening to Brady's appeal. I don't think he would promise anything or Kraft would make some type of deal where the suspension gets knocked down. I can't imagine the NFLPA or Brady being very happy if Kraft comes to him and says, hey accept 2 game or something along those lines. Really, I don't see Brady not going to court unless the entirety of the suspension is lifted.

They were seen sitting down together, hugging beforehand, and chatting "animatedly", at some birthday party yesterday.  I think that's probably where this conversation got done.

I think if they knock the suspension down to 1 or 2 games....Brady takes it without any sort of court appeal.  And he'll give the exact same non-specific mea culpa (these guys took my preferences and did something far beyond what I intended..but ultimately I'm the leader of this team) he probably should have in the first place.  Because if HE doesn't, I don't think the NFL with "deal" and reduce it.  They'll MAKE HIM go to court.  I honestly don't think Brady (or the NFLPA) really wants to do that. Not really.

We'll see.

[faldor]

I'll stick with my theory that owners told him to knock it off and he listened. Goodell and him have been close so its entirely possible Goodell told Kraft he would be fair in listening to Brady's appeal. I don't think he would promise anything or Kraft would make some type of deal where the suspension gets knocked down. I can't imagine the NFLPA or Brady being very happy if Kraft comes to him and says, hey accept 2 game or something along those lines. Really, I don't see Brady not going to court unless the entirety of the suspension is lifted.

They were seen sitting down together, hugging beforehand, and chatting "animatedly", at some birthday party yesterday.  I think that's probably where this conversation got done.

I think if they knock the suspension down to 1 or 2 games....Brady takes it without any sort of court appeal.  And he'll give the exact same non-specific mea culpa (these guys took my preferences and did something far beyond what I intended..but ultimately I'm the leader of this team) he probably should have in the first place.  Because if HE doesn't, I don't think the NFL with "deal" and reduce it.  They'll MAKE HIM go to court.  I honestly don't think Brady (or the NFLPA) really wants to do that. Not really.

We'll see.

That we will. I just don't see the NFL backing down at all here. They believe the Wells report and that the penalties imposed were fair. A lot of people think it has to be all or nothing as far as Brady's suspension goes. I don't think either side is really interested in a compromise.