Richard Fortus Interview To Be Released Monday

[mortismurphy]

I actually agree that the name thing is an old topic in the sense that, if you did not reconcile yourself, somewhere around 2000, to the fact that Axl now had the name and was about to relaunch a new version of the band, you are probably not going to reconcile yourself to it in 2015. You should have decided to, buy into Axl's vision somewhere during that earlier period (or the reverse, ditch ship). Duff, Stradlin, and perhaps to a lesser degree, Slash, seem to have reconciled themselves to the fact.

It is still a topic of historic interest though.

I don?t question for one second that Axl owns the name Guns n Roses.  I question the notion that he, and he alone, came up with the name.  Jarmo, spin it however you want, but you can?t say 100% that he alone created it?you?ll go so far as to say Axl has ?pretty much? said that, but that?s different than it being fact.

Now, the question of who was in the best position to take sole ownership of the name in the 90?s is an entirely different (dead horse) question.  I would say Axl.  I?m just challenging this assumption that it?s rightfully his because he came up with it by himself. 

I would say, Axl and Tracii created the name. The thing is, the creation of the name is inherent in its existence: (Tracii) Guns (a)n(d) (Axl) Rose. Stradlin probably give it the go ahead also.

PS

Further on this point, Guns N' Roses began life as a side project drawn from Tracii's and Axl's respective bands. (LA) Guns (a)n(d) (Hollywood) Rose. The name literally means, an amalgamation of LA Guns and Hollywood Rose.

[jarmo]

Jarmo, spin it however you want, but you can?t say 100% that he alone created it?you?ll go so far as to say Axl has ?pretty much? said that, but that?s different than it being fact.

Now, the question of who was in the best position to take sole ownership of the name in the 90?s is an entirely different (dead horse) question.  I would say Axl.  I?m just challenging this assumption that it?s rightfully his because he came up with it by himself. 

Out of the guys who people consider the old band, I'd say it was Axl's idea. Maybe Tracii had input on it, but he wasn't in that line up anymore. So, all things considered, it's Axl's.
You don't like it, fine. Agreeing about facts is kinda pointless.

I'm still puzzled about the notion some GN'R fans have that Axl lies.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I'm still puzzled about the notion some GN'R fans have that Axl lies.

Everybody lies, as a wise doctor often told us.

I would posit you are more puzzled that some of the fanbase doesn't see him as infallible.

[jarmo]

Don't make generalizations about people you know very little about. 




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Don't make generalizations about people you know very little about. 

I'm basing that comment on your collected body of work.

Whenever just about anything comes up along these lines, you are surprised.  And you comments on such have an air of both "how dare you notice that" mixed in with a  healthy dose of how "real fans wouldn't say such things".

Its all right there on our screens, sport.  And we can all read.

[jarmo]

Yes, I'm surprised that so many of you think of Axl as somebody who lies. I'm sorry if it offends you.

Some of you whine about there not being any updates and when he speaks, it's not a fact or good enough. It's being questioned for years.
It's all ironic.

Some of you have a mission to prove that band members lie, they don't like you (fans) and whatever else you can come up with. You're a fan site. Where does this need to discredit the band at all times come from? What are you afraid of? Somebody will go like Nelson, point and laugh at you for being too supportive?

Free thinking, that's fine. But maybe you should take that somewhere else where negative SPINS are the norm. Not on this fan site.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Yes, I'm surprised that so many of you think of Axl as somebody who lies. I'm sorry if it offends you.

"Lie" is an ugly term.  I would put it more than he puts out his version of events.

Which, to be honest, makes him no different than anyone else on this planet.

Why we, as simple fans of his music, means we have to ignore that basic fact of human nature and insist everything he says is 100% truth with no agenda is a pretty quizzical demand.

[jarmo]

Who's version is he supposed to put out?

Amazing how you are quick to discredit his side of the story, but here you are quoting things from other people as they are facts. Day in and day out.
That's exactly what I'm talking about.

As a supposed GN'R fans, some of you are way more inclined to believe anybody who's not associated with the band than anybody in the band.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Some of you have a mission to prove that band members lie, they don't like you (fans) and whatever else you can come up with. You're a fan site. Where does this need to discredit the band at all times come from? What are you afraid of? Somebody will go like Nelson, point and laugh at you for being too supportive?

That's pretty much done to anyone who posts here in the first place, I've got news for you.  Regardless if you are waving pom-poms or throwing darts while you are here.

So, no, I don't think that's a real concern.  All of us have made our peace with that, evidenced by our continuing to come here every day.  If people think that, they think that.  Not much we can do to combat it.

[D-GenerationX]

Who's version is he supposed to put out?

His. 

Everyone puts their own side out at all time, about everything.  That is what I'm saying.  He's not doing anything else that anyone would not do, every day of their lives.

As a supposed GN'R fans, some of you are way more inclined to believe anybody who's not associated with the band than anybody in the band.

Like most things, its taken on a case by case basis.

But its always going to be a harder sell to convince people to still believe things that are consistently put out there and are proven false time and again.

If DJ tells us they mix up the show because "Axl likes to keep us on our toes"...and someone else responds with "no they don't, look at these setlists", then its the second guy that is going to be believed. 

Are we supposed to sit here like fools and say DJ is speaking the truth when we all know he's not?

Same principle with the same old "we are sorting through the material and hope to get it out.".  Are we supposed to believe that too, despite it being said for YEARS with no hint of it being close to fruition?

That's silly.

[Limulus]

The name issue is a touchy subject still. It wasnt Axl's idea only, Tracci and the girl Axl mentioned in the 2008 online chats played a huge role aswell. Also, it was no brand back then, just a name for a garage band which only made it with Slash and the others of AFD later. So thats why they are considered the classic or original line-up.
Anyway, Axl explained the name issues some more in 12/2008, and it was a great read after all those years of not knowing his point.
But what i'm still not getting is this:

"I still didn?t grasp any other issues until long after I?d left and formed a new partnership which was only an effort to salvage Guns not steal it."

that still needs to be explained, because leaving the GN'R partnership end of 1995 just to form a new one 1 day later looks like a pure power ego strategy making all future members employees, not real partners.

[jarmo]

He's not doing anything else that anyone would not do, every day of their lives.

Yeah, but some put out their version and it's not exactly based on facts. More like wishful thinking.

If DJ tells us they mix up the show because "Axl likes to keep us on our toes"...and someone else responds with "no they don't, look at these setlists", then its the second guy that is going to be believed. 

Funny you bring up the setlist! You of all people? Who knew.

I'm sorry, but they mix it up. I know, it's not up to your liking of % that's mixed, but they do. Maybe you can call me a liar now.

"I still didn?t grasp any other issues until long after I?d left and formed a new partnership which was only an effort to salvage Guns not steal it."

that still needs to be explained, because leaving the GN'R partnership end of 1995 just to form a new one 1 day later looks like a pure power ego strategy making all future members employees, not real partners.

Why? Because the old band has disbanded and Axl was the only captain on the ship? Also, do you think it would've been smart not to do that considering all the legal issues that might have followed?
Look at how many other bands fight over who gets to use the name.




/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

The name issue is a touchy subject still. It wasnt Axl's idea only, Tracci and the girl Axl mentioned in the 2008 online chats played a huge role aswell. Also, it was no brand back then, just a name for a garage band which only made it with Slash and the others of AFD later. So thats why they are considered the classic or original line-up.
Anyway, Axl explained the name issues some more in 12/2008, and it was a great read after all those years of not knowing his point.
But what i'm still not getting is this:

"I still didn?t grasp any other issues until long after I?d left and formed a new partnership which was only an effort to salvage Guns not steal it."

that still needs to be explained, because leaving the GN'R partnership end of 1995 just to form a new one 1 day later looks like a pure power ego strategy making all future members employees, not real partners.

Axl would probably justify that by describing how 'his vision' of what 'Guns N' Roses is', was somehow imperiled by the continuation of the partnership and the continued equality of Slash and Duff (in that partnership). I believe he has insinuated as such, when describing the refusal of the Snakepit material and Slash's inability to work with Tobias.

[D-GenerationX]

If DJ tells us they mix up the show because "Axl likes to keep us on our toes"...and someone else responds with "no they don't, look at these setlists", then its the second guy that is going to be believed. 

Funny you bring up the setlist! You of all people? Who knew.

I'm sorry, but they mix it up. I know, it's not up to your liking of % that's mixed, but they do. Maybe you can call me a liar now.

No, not a liar.  More like a very frustrated message controller.

I think in a situation like this one, you would rather we just all nod along with the inaccurate claim.  And even though we know its not true, we should not say it out loud.

And if we do, we then have some sort of hateful agenda.  Real fans don't ask pesky questions, as you appear to see things.  We take the good, and when it comes to the bad...well, just don't publically acknowledge it.  As if that makes it go away.

If I had to sum up your feelings on stuff like this, it would be a dejected you saying with a heavy sigh "man, why ya gotta break balls?"

[Limulus]

"I still didn?t grasp any other issues until long after I?d left and formed a new partnership which was only an effort to salvage Guns not steal it."

that still needs to be explained, because leaving the GN'R partnership end of 1995 just to form a new one 1 day later looks like a pure power ego strategy making all future members employees, not real partners.

Why? Because the old band has disbanded and Axl was the only captain on the ship? Also, do you think it would've been smart not to do that considering all the legal issues that might have followed?
Look at how many other bands fight over who gets to use the name.




/jarmo

Well, the old band wasnt disbanded by then. Axl made the move on his own, leaving the old partnership only to create a new one. it made Slash and Duff employees not equal partners anymore, cant you see the pure power trip there? it was a HUGE HUGE change in terms of business and also in terms of respect and private matters. In the end that was probably the main reason why Slash, Matt and Duff left, no (more) dictatorship wanted!

[mortismurphy]

"I still didn?t grasp any other issues until long after I?d left and formed a new partnership which was only an effort to salvage Guns not steal it."

that still needs to be explained, because leaving the GN'R partnership end of 1995 just to form a new one 1 day later looks like a pure power ego strategy making all future members employees, not real partners.

Why? Because the old band has disbanded and Axl was the only captain on the ship? Also, do you think it would've been smart not to do that considering all the legal issues that might have followed?
Look at how many other bands fight over who gets to use the name.




/jarmo

Well, the old band wasnt disbanded by then. Axl made the move on his own, leaving the old partnership only to create a new one. it made Slash and Duff employees not equal partners anymore, cant you see the pure power trip there? it was a HUGE HUGE change in terms of business and also in terms of respect and private matters. In the end that was probably the main reason why Slash, Matt and Duff left, no (more) dictatorship wanted!

Certainly.

Although it is more like, he folded the band and created a new one with the same name, then tried to get Duff, Slash (and Matt) to sign on as contractual employees. They all did, although Slash held out longer and was the one most unhappy with the arrangement.

Axl is a student of Bismarkian statecraft.

But as I said, Axl would (and does) have a rational, a list of justifications, for what he did. I am probably the wrong guy to state these reasons. Jarmo is your man, here.

[D-GenerationX]

Although it is more like, he folded the band and created a new one with the same name, then tried to get Duff, Slash (and Matt) to sign on as contractual employees. They all did, although Slash held out longer and was the one most unhappy with the arrangement.

Seems that way.

[jazjme]

This thread has completely gone to shit and dead horse ..

[jarmo]

No, not a liar.  More like a very frustrated message controller.

Frustrated? 

If somebody's frustrated, look in the mirror.

I think in a situation like this one, you would rather we just all nod along with the inaccurate claim.  And even though we know its not true, we should not say it out loud.

The inaccuracy exist in your mind because you want it to.

Real fans don't ask pesky questions, as you appear to see things.  

Real fans don't have a need to try to prove a band member to be wrong at all times.

If I had to sum up your feelings on stuff like this, it would be a dejected you saying with a heavy sigh "man, why ya gotta break balls?"

Why would you even feel the need to try to figure out my feelings?
Creepy.

Well, the old band wasnt disbanded by then. Axl made the move on his own, leaving the old partnership only to create a new one. it made Slash and Duff employees not equal partners anymore, cant you see the pure power trip there? it was a HUGE HUGE change in terms of business and also in terms of respect and private matters. In the end that was probably the main reason why Slash, Matt and Duff left, no (more) dictatorship wanted!

Power trip? Like I said, that's your spin because you have an agenda. Somebody else would say that's just protecting yourself.

You failed to address the cases where band members were fighting in courts about who owned a name and you might see more than one band with a similar name on tour.




/jarmo

[pilferk]

If I had to sum up your feelings on stuff like this, it would be a dejected you saying with a heavy sigh "man, why ya gotta break balls?"

Why would you even feel the need to try to figure out my feelings?
Creepy.

/jarmo

Your feelings and my reading list.....