2015 Baseball season/Off Season Discussion

[GeorgeSteele]

Jon Morosi ‏@jonmorosi  2m2 minutes ago
Jason Heyward's contract with #Cubs is eight years and $184 million, with two opt-outs, sources confirm. @FOXSports

Lackey, Zobrist, Heyward... Cubs are not fucking around are they... I hope they choke on those contracts just as they choke in the playoffs.

[tim_m]

Cueto has signed with the Giants.

[GeorgeSteele]

Cueto has signed with the Giants.

Has an opt-out after 2 years.  Seems that teams are being strategic about giving these pitchers opt-outs.  I can't imagine any scenario under which the Giants do not hope that Cueto exercises that opt-out.  He could be Cy Young those first 2 years, I'm sure they would hope that another team would snatch him up and so letting them off the hook on the back-end of that contract.

[JAEBALL]

Cueto has signed with the Giants.

Has an opt-out after 2 years.  Seems that teams are being strategic about giving these pitchers opt-outs.  I can't imagine any scenario under which the Giants do not hope that Cueto exercises that opt-out.  He could be Cy Young those first 2 years, I'm sure they would hope that another team would snatch him up and so letting them off the hook on the back-end of that contract.

The opt out is interesting.. could benefit both parties a lot of the time.

[TheBaconman]

Just watched the sports misplays off the year and I am featured in two games.  The Jays for both.  The triple play against them in Seattle and when the stupid fan in front of me grabbed a live ball in Toronto, costing us 3 runs against the Rays.

Also watched the jays season in review.  A two our special, where they aired that one inning in the playoffs against Texas in almost in almost in full.   Looking back...  What a come back, what a series, what a year!!

It was such a great year to be a Jays fan.  From July till Nov, I was in some kind of love drunk fan haze....    If I don't see that again for 20 years it will still be worth it.

Go Jays!

[faldor]

Just watched the sports misplays off the year and I am featured in two games.  The Jays for both.  The triple play against them in Seattle and when the stupid fan in front of me grabbed a live ball in Toronto, costing us 3 runs against the Rays.

Also watched the jays season in review.  A two our special, where they aired that one inning in the playoffs against Texas in almost in almost in full.   Looking back...  What a come back, what a series, what a year!!

It was such a great year to be a Jays fan.  From July till Nov, I was in some kind of love drunk fan haze....    If I don't see that again for 20 years it will still be worth it.

Go Jays!

Jays should still be a factor next year. Lineup is still top notch. Losing Price obviously hurts, but having Stroman for a full year at a fraction of the cost should ease the pain. After all, the Jays gave him the ball when it mattered most over Price, so that says something.

The AL East is still a bit of a crapshoot. Red Sox made some big improvements but they still have some obvious questions and weaknesses. The Yankees somehow stayed competitive last year, so you can't count them out. Tampa's pitching is always a factor. The O's still have some work to do. A few months to go before pitchers and catchers report though. A lot can happen.

[faldor]

The AL East gets even more competitive as the Yanks have acquired Aroldis Chapman, reportedly for 4 non elite prospects.

Do they hang onto Miller and use him in the 7th, Betances in the 8th, and Chapman to close? Or try to deal Miller for a SP? Keeping him would take a lot of pressure off of the rotation, that's for sure.

[Falcon]

The AL East gets even more competitive as the Yanks have acquired Aroldis Chapman, reportedly for 4 non elite prospects.

Do they hang onto Miller and use him in the 7th, Betances in the 8th, and Chapman to close? Or try to deal Miller for a SP? Keeping him would take a lot of pressure off of the rotation, that's for sure.

The price fell so low on Chapman the temptation just could not be resisted.

Far for me to take the moral high ground but sometimes you just gotta say no, and Chapman (for me) was a definite "no" - regardless of how cheap he came.

[faldor]

The AL East gets even more competitive as the Yanks have acquired Aroldis Chapman, reportedly for 4 non elite prospects.

Do they hang onto Miller and use him in the 7th, Betances in the 8th, and Chapman to close? Or try to deal Miller for a SP? Keeping him would take a lot of pressure off of the rotation, that's for sure.

The price fell so low on Chapman the temptation just could not be resisted.

Far for me to take the moral high ground but sometimes you just gotta say no, and Chapman (for me) was a definite "no" - regardless of how cheap he came.

It certainly is a risk as far as reputation goes. Reward outweighed that risk in their minds though I guess. And it does appear they got him real cheap. 2 top 15 organizational prospects, 2 outside the top 30. The Reds certainly did not fare well with their two big trades this off-season. At least not at first glance.

[GeorgeSteele]

The AL East gets even more competitive as the Yanks have acquired Aroldis Chapman, reportedly for 4 non elite prospects.

Do they hang onto Miller and use him in the 7th, Betances in the 8th, and Chapman to close? Or try to deal Miller for a SP? Keeping him would take a lot of pressure off of the rotation, that's for sure.

The price fell so low on Chapman the temptation just could not be resisted.

Far for me to take the moral high ground but sometimes you just gotta say no, and Chapman (for me) was a definite "no" - regardless of how cheap he came.

If the domestic violence accusations against him are true, I'm right there with you, but if all there are are accusations, coupled with the fact that the police decided not to pursue charges (noting inconsistencies in the stories), think it's fine for the Yankees, barring anything further coming out.  I'm sure the Yankees did they're own further investigating as well; I don't think they would have gone through with this deal if they determined that the allegations were likely to be true.  I would hope that an organization that has issues with facial hair and personal grooming would at least be equally vigilant against their players beating women. 

[faldor]

The AL East gets even more competitive as the Yanks have acquired Aroldis Chapman, reportedly for 4 non elite prospects.

Do they hang onto Miller and use him in the 7th, Betances in the 8th, and Chapman to close? Or try to deal Miller for a SP? Keeping him would take a lot of pressure off of the rotation, that's for sure.

The price fell so low on Chapman the temptation just could not be resisted.

Far for me to take the moral high ground but sometimes you just gotta say no, and Chapman (for me) was a definite "no" - regardless of how cheap he came.

If the domestic violence accusations against him are true, I'm right there with you, but if all there are are accusations, coupled with the fact that the police decided not to pursue charges (noting inconsistencies in the stories), think it's fine for the Yankees, barring anything further coming out.  I'm sure the Yankees did they're own further investigating as well; I don't think they would have gone through with this deal if they determined that the allegations were likely to be true.  I would hope that an organization that has issues with facial hair and personal grooming would at least be equally vigilant against their players beating women. 

The Dodgers thought enough of the allegations to back out of the deal they had agreed upon and didn't seem to make a hard push to get back to the negotiating table for him.

[pilferk]

The AL East gets even more competitive as the Yanks have acquired Aroldis Chapman, reportedly for 4 non elite prospects.

Do they hang onto Miller and use him in the 7th, Betances in the 8th, and Chapman to close? Or try to deal Miller for a SP? Keeping him would take a lot of pressure off of the rotation, that's for sure.

Cash says the Yanks plan is to keep all 3 guys. Speculation is Betances 7th, Miller 8th, Chapman closing...on days when all 3 are available.  REALLY, though...you saw Miller and Betances get ridden hard last season, and it showed, late.  I think that there will be SOME days you have all 3 ready to go, but lots of days when you're looking at sort of a rotating 8th and 9th, depending on recent workload, so those guys are shot by the end of the year.

[pilferk]

The price fell so low on Chapman the temptation just could not be resisted.

Far for me to take the moral high ground but sometimes you just gotta say no, and Chapman (for me) was a definite "no" - regardless of how cheap he came.

If they were more than allegations, yes.  And if they turn out to be more than allegations, the guy deserves whatever he gets..suspension, legal trouble, etc.

But you also can't rob a guy of a career simply because of accusations, either.  Have you read the actual reports?

His (ex?) girlfriend found "something" on his phone she didn't like.  She confronted him about it. She SAYS he held her by her neck (choking her) and pushed her down.

HE says he poked her in the shoulder, to back her off, when she got in his face about it.  Then he got into it with her brother.  Then he got pissed off and (and this is the part there's really no forgiving) decided to take pot shots with his hand gun at his garage walls, while he was alone, there.

Witnesses (except for her, and her brother) seemingly all corroborated Chapmans story.

She called the cops....from the bushes outside the house.  After investigating the scene, and taking reports from both, police didn't arrest anyone.  They say they saw no signs of violence on her person (bruising, redness, edema, or otherwise) or signs of a struggle at the residence. Given the different accounts from witnesses, and the lack of physical evidence, they didn't think there was enough to go on to do anything.

The case was pretty much CLOSED until the media reports surfaced, and then the ADA's office says they were "looking into it".  To date, no arrests, no charges, and no word from the DA's office.  And it's been MONTHS (it happened in October).

To add, this is the same woman who (prior to all this, in September) allegedly stole a house key, and broke in to the residence while he was out of town, and was caught removing furniture and "stuff" from the house (because she set off the house alarm, and was caught by the cops). Stuff that apparently wasn't all hers, but she thought she was entitled to because they were "breaking up". Chapman refused to press charges and, when alerted, and told the police to remove her from the premises, but not to detain her.

None of this sounds great in terms of his relationship status, and the potential drama and distraction they might bring going forward.  But I'm not sure there is enough there to say the guy was 100% guilty. I'd hope someone in either the Cincy or Yanks (or MLB...Torre's office, maybe?) would give the kid a stern talking to and advise him that some relationships are toxic and to get the fuck out, because stuff like this will ruin your career, and land your ass in jail.

Trust me: I'm take domestic violence VERY seriously.  And if the guy did it, I'd be the first one to tell you to throw the book...hell, ALL the books...at him.  But I also think that, if you read through the reports (and the police report..it's on line), there's a decent chance the guy didn't do anything.

You'd also think Cash would have kicked the tires a bit, to make sure everything was kosher with the league office.  Though, given my faith in Cash...maybe not and it all bites the Yanks in the ass.  I will say this, though..the Yanks gave up the equivalent of 3 magic beans, here.  They didn't exactly lose anything of any really significant organizational value to make this trade.  I know 2 of these guys were top 15 org prospects, but, honestly, they're not guys that the Yanks are going to miss, in terms of organizational needs.

[JAEBALL]

The AL East gets even more competitive as the Yanks have acquired Aroldis Chapman, reportedly for 4 non elite prospects.

Do they hang onto Miller and use him in the 7th, Betances in the 8th, and Chapman to close? Or try to deal Miller for a SP? Keeping him would take a lot of pressure off of the rotation, that's for sure.

Cash says the Yanks plan is to keep all 3 guys. Speculation is Betances 7th, Miller 8th, Chapman closing...on days when all 3 are available.  REALLY, though...you saw Miller and Betances get ridden hard last season, and it showed, late.  I think that there will be SOME days you have all 3 ready to go, but lots of days when you're looking at sort of a rotating 8th and 9th, depending on recent workload, so those guys are shot by the end of the year.

What's not to like about this ? legal issues aside...

Could be epic.

[Falcon]

The price fell so low on Chapman the temptation just could not be resisted.

Far for me to take the moral high ground but sometimes you just gotta say no, and Chapman (for me) was a definite "no" - regardless of how cheap he came.

But you also can't rob a guy of a career simply because of accusations, either. 

Of course not, I never insinuated that.

His career could have continued with the Reds - that was never in jeopardy.

I just don;t take the chance if I'm the Yanks (or anyone else) - let the process play out then see how things shake out.

Until then - just say no.

[JAEBALL]

The price fell so low on Chapman the temptation just could not be resisted.

Far for me to take the moral high ground but sometimes you just gotta say no, and Chapman (for me) was a definite "no" - regardless of how cheap he came.

But you also can't rob a guy of a career simply because of accusations, either. 

Of course not, I never insinuated that.

His career could have continued with the Reds - that was never in jeopardy.

I just don;t take the chance if I'm the Yanks (or anyone else) - let the process play out then see how things shake out.

Until then - just say no.

It actually helps the Yankees if he is suspended more than 40 games... it would push back his free agency clock.

[faldor]

The price fell so low on Chapman the temptation just could not be resisted.

Far for me to take the moral high ground but sometimes you just gotta say no, and Chapman (for me) was a definite "no" - regardless of how cheap he came.

But you also can't rob a guy of a career simply because of accusations, either. 

Of course not, I never insinuated that.

His career could have continued with the Reds - that was never in jeopardy.

I just don;t take the chance if I'm the Yanks (or anyone else) - let the process play out then see how things shake out.

Until then - just say no.

The fact that the Yanks gave up next to nothing in the deal shows how much his value has dropped due to the allegations mixed in with his impending free agency. On talent alone, there's about 30 other teams who would have matched or blown the Yankees offer out of the water. I think it's worth the risk, but apparently nearly every other team didn't feel that way. That has to say something.

[pilferk]

Of course not, I never insinuated that.

His career could have continued with the Reds - that was never in jeopardy.

I just don;t take the chance if I'm the Yanks (or anyone else) - let the process play out then see how things shake out.

Until then - just say no.

So you punish the Reds, then.

He has value, now.  They don't need him in Cincy...and he really HAD to move, now, to bring them any value.

The process, really, HAD played out (the case was closed until the media started talking about it...almost 2 months later).  The legal case was closed.  And since being "re looked at" (which, honestly, sounds like media lip service, to me), has gone no where.

He was going somewhere, or he was going nowhere.  You either punish the reds...or you rob him of his career by not letting him maximize his FA value on the field.  Those were the two realistic options.

[GeorgeSteele]

The price fell so low on Chapman the temptation just could not be resisted.

Far for me to take the moral high ground but sometimes you just gotta say no, and Chapman (for me) was a definite "no" - regardless of how cheap he came.

But you also can't rob a guy of a career simply because of accusations, either. 

Of course not, I never insinuated that.

His career could have continued with the Reds - that was never in jeopardy.

I just don;t take the chance if I'm the Yanks (or anyone else) - let the process play out then see how things shake out.

Until then - just say no.

The fact that the Yanks gave up next to nothing in the deal shows how much his value has dropped due to the allegations mixed in with his impending free agency. On talent alone, there's about 30 other teams who would have matched or blown the Yankees offer out of the water. I think it's worth the risk, but apparently nearly every other team didn't feel that way. That has to say something.

Sure, it says something, it says that even on the allegations alone, any team that takes him on will take a hard PR hit.  Most teams don't want to deal with that.  Here in NY, there's already someone in the NYC Council that wants to organize a Yankee boycott over this.  So it's understandable that the Reds had trouble getting fair value for him.  The point I was making, and maybe Pilferk too, is that there doesn't appear to be merit to this based on facts we have to judge this from a morality perspective.

[pilferk]

Sure, it says something, it says that even on the allegations alone, any team that takes him on will take a hard PR hit.  Most teams don't want to deal with that.  Here in NY, there's already someone in the NYC Council that wants to organize a Yankee boycott over this.  So it's understandable that the Reds had trouble getting fair value for him.  The point I was making, and maybe Pilferk too, is that there doesn't appear to be merit to this based on facts we have to judge this from a morality perspective.

Exactly.

If you want to say they might take a PR hit due to perceptions....sure, maybe.  But NYC is probably the best market to deal with that in, since there is so much general noise in the market.  And that's been true of many, many, many players before, and deals get done...so I'm not sure how this would be any different.

But from a pure morality stance....I don't see enough there to get worked up over.  Not yet, and, given how long it's been and what we know from the police reports, I'm not sure if ever.

The "risk" is that, if it turns out to be true, THEN you have a larger issue to deal with.  I'd peg that risk, given what we know, to be pretty low.  And certainly worth taking from the Yanks side.