2015 Baseball season/Off Season Discussion

[pilferk]

And for an outside looking in, no dog in the hunt view on Pedro..

Absolute first ballot guy, Koufax like dominance over that 6 year period.

That's the thing for me, though.

You have 6 seasons of Koufax in his prime (-ish...Koufax stretch of 6 seasons was actually the stretch I was thinking of when I said, earlier, Pedro had ONE of the best stretches in MLB history...Koufax's might be just a bit better).

And 12 seasons of Andy Pettitte (who, I think we both agree, probably isn't getting in).

It's such a HUGE juxtaposition of numbers. And there's huge demarkation lines right before, and right after.

Though I guess the point that Pedro and Koufax's career aren't that far off in terms of comparative numbers/longevity/period of dominance is well taken.

I think Koufax gets more of a pass for a few reasons. 
1) The number of no-nos and other pitching related "feats" (perfect game, mult 18 strike out games, etc)
2) His relative position compared to his peers at the time (even with his short career, when he retired, he was 7th in strike outs, all time, for example)
3) His "firsts" (ie: He was the first pitcher to do a lot of stuff...win multiple cy youngs, etc).

I guess that amounts to a little more "gravitas" for me.

But again...the point is well taken.

[JAEBALL]

Hello Gentlemen

I never post in non GNR sections... but I'm going to give it a shot...

Big Yankee fan... I despise what the Yankees have done with this team this winter. Any other Yankee fans?

I'm very anti Headley. I would have preferred to play Prado at third and let Refsnyder play second....Take that Headley money and make a super bullpen with Robertson AND Miller

[faldor]

What do you think of the Yankees going with a lefty heavy lineup to counter all the right handed pitching in the AL East, and seemingly take advantage of the short porch? Will it make a difference or are the hitters just not good enough regardless of what side they hit from? I think their lineup has potential if they all click. But that's asking a lot. Rarely does every question get answered positively. Though it did happen for the Sox in 2013, so it is possible. They have built themselves a real solid bullpen it looks like. And they may need it with the question marks in their rotation.

I think their off season moves are non-sensical, unless the ultimate goal is to dump payroll, rebuild for a couple years, and try to rebuild their farm system from the floor up.

I think their lineup is unimpressive, unproven, and largely is going to be inneffective.  I expect this to be a cellar season for them, honestly.  From 1-9, you literally have 2 guys who have proven, in recent years, that they can hit: Ellsbury (the forever broken) and Gardner.  Neither of those guys hit for power, either.

The rest of them are .220 to .250 hitters, at best, of late.  I don't think that's enough, no matter the matchups, to put together an effective offense.

I think their defense (esp their infield defense) got better.  I think their pen got better (hard to believe considering the loss of Robinson).  I think their rotation (assuming a couple arms don't fall off...one in particular) is solid, with a couple question marks toward the bottom (because, lets face it, CC is now the #3 pitcher on that staff).  If Nova comes back in June....and looks remotely what he was....they've got a solid run of guys there.  Durability, as per usual, is the biggest question.

I think stockpiling a bunch of young, and mostly "project", flamethrowers this offseason is an interesting concept.  I'm not sure I like it, but it's interesting.

I also think.....they've decided to pretty much rebuild until they can shed the A-rod (FYI: I expect release by May, unless he's actually able to hit), Tex, and CC money on the books.  Basically, the next couple years.  They went young, cheap, and unproven in pretty much all their moves.  They signed (or are in the process of signing) Stephan Drew JUST IN CASE one of their 2b prospects cant' tie their shoes out of Spring Training.

And they seem bent on throwing that young talent into an ineffective lineup, with no protection, and very little proven veteran presence/leadership, and expecting them to succeed.  I think that's a very, very, very tall order (and probably unrealistic).  Which means.....IMHO....they end up burning those guys out.

But, we'll see.  It's ugly, IMHO.

Any hope for Beltran and McCann bouncing back? McCann hit better down the stretch after a disappointing start. Beltran isn't getting any younger so maybe there's less optimism there. Tex is what he is at this point. Injured often, pretty good pop, .250 hitter or less. Headley was decent for them last year. I don't know if he'll return to his form a few seasons ago when he had a career year though. And who knows what to expect from A-Rod. I expect an ugly season for him, at least as far as his reception. I don't expect Yankee fans to be too supportive either.

[JAEBALL]

What do you think of the Yankees going with a lefty heavy lineup to counter all the right handed pitching in the AL East, and seemingly take advantage of the short porch? Will it make a difference or are the hitters just not good enough regardless of what side they hit from? I think their lineup has potential if they all click. But that's asking a lot. Rarely does every question get answered positively. Though it did happen for the Sox in 2013, so it is possible. They have built themselves a real solid bullpen it looks like. And they may need it with the question marks in their rotation.

I think their off season moves are non-sensical, unless the ultimate goal is to dump payroll, rebuild for a couple years, and try to rebuild their farm system from the floor up.

I think their lineup is unimpressive, unproven, and largely is going to be inneffective.  I expect this to be a cellar season for them, honestly.  From 1-9, you literally have 2 guys who have proven, in recent years, that they can hit: Ellsbury (the forever broken) and Gardner.  Neither of those guys hit for power, either.

The rest of them are .220 to .250 hitters, at best, of late.  I don't think that's enough, no matter the matchups, to put together an effective offense.

I think their defense (esp their infield defense) got better.  I think their pen got better (hard to believe considering the loss of Robinson).  I think their rotation (assuming a couple arms don't fall off...one in particular) is solid, with a couple question marks toward the bottom (because, lets face it, CC is now the #3 pitcher on that staff).  If Nova comes back in June....and looks remotely what he was....they've got a solid run of guys there.  Durability, as per usual, is the biggest question.

I think stockpiling a bunch of young, and mostly "project", flamethrowers this offseason is an interesting concept.  I'm not sure I like it, but it's interesting.

I also think.....they've decided to pretty much rebuild until they can shed the A-rod (FYI: I expect release by May, unless he's actually able to hit), Tex, and CC money on the books.  Basically, the next couple years.  They went young, cheap, and unproven in pretty much all their moves.  They signed (or are in the process of signing) Stephan Drew JUST IN CASE one of their 2b prospects cant' tie their shoes out of Spring Training.

And they seem bent on throwing that young talent into an ineffective lineup, with no protection, and very little proven veteran presence/leadership, and expecting them to succeed.  I think that's a very, very, very tall order (and probably unrealistic).  Which means.....IMHO....they end up burning those guys out.

But, we'll see.  It's ugly, IMHO.

Any hope for Beltran and McCann bouncing back? McCann hit better down the stretch after a disappointing start. Beltran isn't getting any younger so maybe there's less optimism there. Tex is what he is at this point. Injured often, pretty good pop, .250 hitter or less. Headley was decent for them last year. I don't know if he'll return to his form a few seasons ago when he had a career year though. And who knows what to expect from A-Rod. I expect an ugly season for him, at least as far as his reception. I don't expect Yankee fans to be too supportive either.

I treat A Rod the same as any other steroid player... I don't care... If he can still drive in runs... that's all I care about...

When the pitchers are juicing, and the hitters are juicing, they are on the same playing field as far as I'm concerned.

Baseball is going to be very hard for me... AT 31.. I basically grew up with Derek jeter... watching the Yankees without him is going to be an adjustment for me

[GeorgeSteele]

Just to toss in my 2 cents on Pedro, agreed he crossed the line too many times with the hit batsmen, but prime or no prime, there was none then and haven't been since any pitcher I enjoyed watching more than him (other than maybe Maddux).  Pure artistry.  

As far as the Don Zimmer thing, not proud to admit this, but knowing that Zimmer was not injured when it happened, watching that clip now makes me laugh.  Pedro was still a dick to do it... but everything about it was just so absurd, I can't help giggling as I'm watching it.  Even the head-grab takedown... of all options he had, why do that?  Wild stuff.

[pilferk]

What do you think of the Yankees going with a lefty heavy lineup to counter all the right handed pitching in the AL East, and seemingly take advantage of the short porch? Will it make a difference or are the hitters just not good enough regardless of what side they hit from? I think their lineup has potential if they all click. But that's asking a lot. Rarely does every question get answered positively. Though it did happen for the Sox in 2013, so it is possible. They have built themselves a real solid bullpen it looks like. And they may need it with the question marks in their rotation.

I think their off season moves are non-sensical, unless the ultimate goal is to dump payroll, rebuild for a couple years, and try to rebuild their farm system from the floor up.

I think their lineup is unimpressive, unproven, and largely is going to be inneffective.  I expect this to be a cellar season for them, honestly.  From 1-9, you literally have 2 guys who have proven, in recent years, that they can hit: Ellsbury (the forever broken) and Gardner.  Neither of those guys hit for power, either.

The rest of them are .220 to .250 hitters, at best, of late.  I don't think that's enough, no matter the matchups, to put together an effective offense.

I think their defense (esp their infield defense) got better.  I think their pen got better (hard to believe considering the loss of Robinson).  I think their rotation (assuming a couple arms don't fall off...one in particular) is solid, with a couple question marks toward the bottom (because, lets face it, CC is now the #3 pitcher on that staff).  If Nova comes back in June....and looks remotely what he was....they've got a solid run of guys there.  Durability, as per usual, is the biggest question.

I think stockpiling a bunch of young, and mostly "project", flamethrowers this offseason is an interesting concept.  I'm not sure I like it, but it's interesting.

I also think.....they've decided to pretty much rebuild until they can shed the A-rod (FYI: I expect release by May, unless he's actually able to hit), Tex, and CC money on the books.  Basically, the next couple years.  They went young, cheap, and unproven in pretty much all their moves.  They signed (or are in the process of signing) Stephan Drew JUST IN CASE one of their 2b prospects cant' tie their shoes out of Spring Training.

And they seem bent on throwing that young talent into an ineffective lineup, with no protection, and very little proven veteran presence/leadership, and expecting them to succeed.  I think that's a very, very, very tall order (and probably unrealistic).  Which means.....IMHO....they end up burning those guys out.

But, we'll see.  It's ugly, IMHO.

Any hope for Beltran and McCann bouncing back? McCann hit better down the stretch after a disappointing start. Beltran isn't getting any younger so maybe there's less optimism there. Tex is what he is at this point. Injured often, pretty good pop, .250 hitter or less. Headley was decent for them last year. I don't know if he'll return to his form a few seasons ago when he had a career year though. And who knows what to expect from A-Rod. I expect an ugly season for him, at least as far as his reception. I don't expect Yankee fans to be too supportive either.

I treat A Rod the same as any other steroid player... I don't care... If he can still drive in runs... that's all I care about...

When the pitchers are juicing, and the hitters are juicing, they are on the same playing field as far as I'm concerned.

Baseball is going to be very hard for me... AT 31.. I basically grew up with Derek jeter... watching the Yankees without him is going to be an adjustment for me

If he hits .333 and 15 dingers by mid june...i think the boos go away AT HOME.

That being said...i think the chances of that happening are roughly the chances of a small ball of frozen water in beelzebubs home town.  I expect sonething much closer to .230 with 3 dingers...and a possible release...by june.

I'm also with you, especially with this crew, on "i dont care if he used if he can produce". Not now, anyway. I mean, hes not at the top of my fav player list, and i aint buying his jersey, but....

[faldor]

Just to toss in my 2 cents on Pedro, agreed he crossed the line too many times with the hit batsmen, but prime or no prime, there was none then and haven't been since any pitcher I enjoyed watching more than him (other than maybe Maddux).  Pure artistry.  

As far as the Don Zimmer thing, not proud to admit this, but knowing that Zimmer was not injured when it happened, watching that clip now makes me laugh.  Pedro was still a dick to do it... but everything about it was just so absurd, I can't help giggling as I'm watching it.  Even the head-grab takedown... of all options he had, why do that?  Wild stuff.

Poor Zim. RIP. I don't think there was a right move in that situation. It was going to be ugly regardless of any decisions that may have been made.

The Mets future is looking pretty bright for the first time in a long time. Still could use a little more on the offensive side I'd say, but the young arms they have can't be overlooked. Plus it helps them that the rest of the division is down, except for the Nats of course. But they could make some noise.

[pilferk]

What do you think of the Yankees going with a lefty heavy lineup to counter all the right handed pitching in the AL East, and seemingly take advantage of the short porch? Will it make a difference or are the hitters just not good enough regardless of what side they hit from? I think their lineup has potential if they all click. But that's asking a lot. Rarely does every question get answered positively. Though it did happen for the Sox in 2013, so it is possible. They have built themselves a real solid bullpen it looks like. And they may need it with the question marks in their rotation.

I think their off season moves are non-sensical, unless the ultimate goal is to dump payroll, rebuild for a couple years, and try to rebuild their farm system from the floor up.

I think their lineup is unimpressive, unproven, and largely is going to be inneffective.  I expect this to be a cellar season for them, honestly.  From 1-9, you literally have 2 guys who have proven, in recent years, that they can hit: Ellsbury (the forever broken) and Gardner.  Neither of those guys hit for power, either.

The rest of them are .220 to .250 hitters, at best, of late.  I don't think that's enough, no matter the matchups, to put together an effective offense.

I think their defense (esp their infield defense) got better.  I think their pen got better (hard to believe considering the loss of Robinson).  I think their rotation (assuming a couple arms don't fall off...one in particular) is solid, with a couple question marks toward the bottom (because, lets face it, CC is now the #3 pitcher on that staff).  If Nova comes back in June....and looks remotely what he was....they've got a solid run of guys there.  Durability, as per usual, is the biggest question.

I think stockpiling a bunch of young, and mostly "project", flamethrowers this offseason is an interesting concept.  I'm not sure I like it, but it's interesting.

I also think.....they've decided to pretty much rebuild until they can shed the A-rod (FYI: I expect release by May, unless he's actually able to hit), Tex, and CC money on the books.  Basically, the next couple years.  They went young, cheap, and unproven in pretty much all their moves.  They signed (or are in the process of signing) Stephan Drew JUST IN CASE one of their 2b prospects cant' tie their shoes out of Spring Training.

And they seem bent on throwing that young talent into an ineffective lineup, with no protection, and very little proven veteran presence/leadership, and expecting them to succeed.  I think that's a very, very, very tall order (and probably unrealistic).  Which means.....IMHO....they end up burning those guys out.

But, we'll see.  It's ugly, IMHO.

Any hope for Beltran and McCann bouncing back? McCann hit better down the stretch after a disappointing start. Beltran isn't getting any younger so maybe there's less optimism there. Tex is what he is at this point. Injured often, pretty good pop, .250 hitter or less. Headley was decent for them last year. I don't know if he'll return to his form a few seasons ago when he had a career year though. And who knows what to expect from A-Rod. I expect an ugly season for him, at least as far as his reception. I don't expect Yankee fans to be too supportive either.

MAYBE McCann? But, honestly, not optimistic.

No nobody else , other than those previously mentioned, on this roster inspires me with confidence. Def not headly...i think he turned a good partial season into a real good contract thst he will never live up to.

Just no offense. And i dont think trying to be the royals of 2015 is going to work out for them...either in terms of win % or in sellng those pricey tix at the stadium.

[faldor]

What do you think of the Yankees going with a lefty heavy lineup to counter all the right handed pitching in the AL East, and seemingly take advantage of the short porch? Will it make a difference or are the hitters just not good enough regardless of what side they hit from? I think their lineup has potential if they all click. But that's asking a lot. Rarely does every question get answered positively. Though it did happen for the Sox in 2013, so it is possible. They have built themselves a real solid bullpen it looks like. And they may need it with the question marks in their rotation.

I think their off season moves are non-sensical, unless the ultimate goal is to dump payroll, rebuild for a couple years, and try to rebuild their farm system from the floor up.

I think their lineup is unimpressive, unproven, and largely is going to be inneffective.  I expect this to be a cellar season for them, honestly.  From 1-9, you literally have 2 guys who have proven, in recent years, that they can hit: Ellsbury (the forever broken) and Gardner.  Neither of those guys hit for power, either.

The rest of them are .220 to .250 hitters, at best, of late.  I don't think that's enough, no matter the matchups, to put together an effective offense.

I think their defense (esp their infield defense) got better.  I think their pen got better (hard to believe considering the loss of Robinson).  I think their rotation (assuming a couple arms don't fall off...one in particular) is solid, with a couple question marks toward the bottom (because, lets face it, CC is now the #3 pitcher on that staff).  If Nova comes back in June....and looks remotely what he was....they've got a solid run of guys there.  Durability, as per usual, is the biggest question.

I think stockpiling a bunch of young, and mostly "project", flamethrowers this offseason is an interesting concept.  I'm not sure I like it, but it's interesting.

I also think.....they've decided to pretty much rebuild until they can shed the A-rod (FYI: I expect release by May, unless he's actually able to hit), Tex, and CC money on the books.  Basically, the next couple years.  They went young, cheap, and unproven in pretty much all their moves.  They signed (or are in the process of signing) Stephan Drew JUST IN CASE one of their 2b prospects cant' tie their shoes out of Spring Training.

And they seem bent on throwing that young talent into an ineffective lineup, with no protection, and very little proven veteran presence/leadership, and expecting them to succeed.  I think that's a very, very, very tall order (and probably unrealistic).  Which means.....IMHO....they end up burning those guys out.

But, we'll see.  It's ugly, IMHO.

Any hope for Beltran and McCann bouncing back? McCann hit better down the stretch after a disappointing start. Beltran isn't getting any younger so maybe there's less optimism there. Tex is what he is at this point. Injured often, pretty good pop, .250 hitter or less. Headley was decent for them last year. I don't know if he'll return to his form a few seasons ago when he had a career year though. And who knows what to expect from A-Rod. I expect an ugly season for him, at least as far as his reception. I don't expect Yankee fans to be too supportive either.

I treat A Rod the same as any other steroid player... I don't care... If he can still drive in runs... that's all I care about...

When the pitchers are juicing, and the hitters are juicing, they are on the same playing field as far as I'm concerned.

Baseball is going to be very hard for me... AT 31.. I basically grew up with Derek jeter... watching the Yankees without him is going to be an adjustment for me

If he hits .333 and 15 dingers by mid june...i think the boos go away AT HOME.

That being said...i think the chances of that happening are roughly the chances of a small ball of frozen water in beelzebubs home town.  I expect sonething much closer to .230 with 3 dingers...and a possible release...by june.

I'm also with you, especially with this crew, on "i dont care if he used if he can produce". Not now, anyway. I mean, hes not at the top of my fav player list, and i aint buying his jersey, but....

If any player produces, the fans will overlook the negatives. But there's a lot more to dislike about A-Rod aside from the steroids. He may be a decent guy in real life. But he comes off as pompous and arrogant. Some questionable antics on the field with slapping the ball out of Arroyo's glove and yelling "I got it" when rounding 3rd on a pop up. Those things stick with me more than the steroids. I cheered for Manny for years and he was less than clean. Ortiz? Nomar? The list is probably very lengthy.

Plus, as pilf pointed out, A-Rod is nowhere near the player he once was. He WAS awesome. The best player in the game for awhile. But last we saw of him he was a shadow of his former self. We'll see what he has left in the tank. I'm not ashamed to say that I hope it's not much.

[pilferk]

What do you think of the Yankees going with a lefty heavy lineup to counter all the right handed pitching in the AL East, and seemingly take advantage of the short porch? Will it make a difference or are the hitters just not good enough regardless of what side they hit from? I think their lineup has potential if they all click. But that's asking a lot. Rarely does every question get answered positively. Though it did happen for the Sox in 2013, so it is possible. They have built themselves a real solid bullpen it looks like. And they may need it with the question marks in their rotation.

I think their off season moves are non-sensical, unless the ultimate goal is to dump payroll, rebuild for a couple years, and try to rebuild their farm system from the floor up.

I think their lineup is unimpressive, unproven, and largely is going to be inneffective.  I expect this to be a cellar season for them, honestly.  From 1-9, you literally have 2 guys who have proven, in recent years, that they can hit: Ellsbury (the forever broken) and Gardner.  Neither of those guys hit for power, either.

The rest of them are .220 to .250 hitters, at best, of late.  I don't think that's enough, no matter the matchups, to put together an effective offense.

I think their defense (esp their infield defense) got better.  I think their pen got better (hard to believe considering the loss of Robinson).  I think their rotation (assuming a couple arms don't fall off...one in particular) is solid, with a couple question marks toward the bottom (because, lets face it, CC is now the #3 pitcher on that staff).  If Nova comes back in June....and looks remotely what he was....they've got a solid run of guys there.  Durability, as per usual, is the biggest question.

I think stockpiling a bunch of young, and mostly "project", flamethrowers this offseason is an interesting concept.  I'm not sure I like it, but it's interesting.

I also think.....they've decided to pretty much rebuild until they can shed the A-rod (FYI: I expect release by May, unless he's actually able to hit), Tex, and CC money on the books.  Basically, the next couple years.  They went young, cheap, and unproven in pretty much all their moves.  They signed (or are in the process of signing) Stephan Drew JUST IN CASE one of their 2b prospects cant' tie their shoes out of Spring Training.

And they seem bent on throwing that young talent into an ineffective lineup, with no protection, and very little proven veteran presence/leadership, and expecting them to succeed.  I think that's a very, very, very tall order (and probably unrealistic).  Which means.....IMHO....they end up burning those guys out.

But, we'll see.  It's ugly, IMHO.

Any hope for Beltran and McCann bouncing back? McCann hit better down the stretch after a disappointing start. Beltran isn't getting any younger so maybe there's less optimism there. Tex is what he is at this point. Injured often, pretty good pop, .250 hitter or less. Headley was decent for them last year. I don't know if he'll return to his form a few seasons ago when he had a career year though. And who knows what to expect from A-Rod. I expect an ugly season for him, at least as far as his reception. I don't expect Yankee fans to be too supportive either.

I treat A Rod the same as any other steroid player... I don't care... If he can still drive in runs... that's all I care about...

When the pitchers are juicing, and the hitters are juicing, they are on the same playing field as far as I'm concerned.

Baseball is going to be very hard for me... AT 31.. I basically grew up with Derek jeter... watching the Yankees without him is going to be an adjustment for me

If he hits .333 and 15 dingers by mid june...i think the boos go away AT HOME.

That being said...i think the chances of that happening are roughly the chances of a small ball of frozen water in beelzebubs home town.  I expect sonething much closer to .230 with 3 dingers...and a possible release...by june.

I'm also with you, especially with this crew, on "i dont care if he used if he can produce". Not now, anyway. I mean, hes not at the top of my fav player list, and i aint buying his jersey, but....

If any player produces, the fans will overlook the negatives. But there's a lot more to dislike about A-Rod aside from the steroids. He may be a decent guy in real life. But he comes off as pompous and arrogant. Some questionable antics on the field with slapping the ball out of Arroyo's glove and yelling "I got it" when rounding 3rd on a pop up. Those things stick with me more than the steroids. I cheered for Manny for years and he was less than clean. Ortiz? Nomar? The list is probably very lengthy.

Plus, as pilf pointed out, A-Rod is nowhere near the player he once was. He WAS awesome. The best player in the game for awhile. But last we saw of him he was a shadow of his former self. We'll see what he has left in the tank. I'm not ashamed to say that I hope it's not much.

To be honest....i hope its caregorically one or the other. And i wouldnt mind much if it was "not much".

Release him, aka the single hit to the wallet, and free up the soft cap space for next year.

I almost wonder if thats really their plan. Chalk this one up to a test season, with the thought you can see what the youngsters have for you. See how tanaka manages. And then get rid of arod around june, so you can go into 2016 and load up for bear.

Idk. None of it makes total sense to me... Every time i think i might have figured it out, i realize i don't. Cashman seems to have suddenly decided this team is the royals....young, good defense, descent pitching, no payroll. Its the weirdest fucking thing...

[JAEBALL]

What do you think of the Yankees going with a lefty heavy lineup to counter all the right handed pitching in the AL East, and seemingly take advantage of the short porch? Will it make a difference or are the hitters just not good enough regardless of what side they hit from? I think their lineup has potential if they all click. But that's asking a lot. Rarely does every question get answered positively. Though it did happen for the Sox in 2013, so it is possible. They have built themselves a real solid bullpen it looks like. And they may need it with the question marks in their rotation.

I think their off season moves are non-sensical, unless the ultimate goal is to dump payroll, rebuild for a couple years, and try to rebuild their farm system from the floor up.

I think their lineup is unimpressive, unproven, and largely is going to be inneffective.  I expect this to be a cellar season for them, honestly.  From 1-9, you literally have 2 guys who have proven, in recent years, that they can hit: Ellsbury (the forever broken) and Gardner.  Neither of those guys hit for power, either.

The rest of them are .220 to .250 hitters, at best, of late.  I don't think that's enough, no matter the matchups, to put together an effective offense.

I think their defense (esp their infield defense) got better.  I think their pen got better (hard to believe considering the loss of Robinson).  I think their rotation (assuming a couple arms don't fall off...one in particular) is solid, with a couple question marks toward the bottom (because, lets face it, CC is now the #3 pitcher on that staff).  If Nova comes back in June....and looks remotely what he was....they've got a solid run of guys there.  Durability, as per usual, is the biggest question.

I think stockpiling a bunch of young, and mostly "project", flamethrowers this offseason is an interesting concept.  I'm not sure I like it, but it's interesting.

I also think.....they've decided to pretty much rebuild until they can shed the A-rod (FYI: I expect release by May, unless he's actually able to hit), Tex, and CC money on the books.  Basically, the next couple years.  They went young, cheap, and unproven in pretty much all their moves.  They signed (or are in the process of signing) Stephan Drew JUST IN CASE one of their 2b prospects cant' tie their shoes out of Spring Training.

And they seem bent on throwing that young talent into an ineffective lineup, with no protection, and very little proven veteran presence/leadership, and expecting them to succeed.  I think that's a very, very, very tall order (and probably unrealistic).  Which means.....IMHO....they end up burning those guys out.

But, we'll see.  It's ugly, IMHO.

Any hope for Beltran and McCann bouncing back? McCann hit better down the stretch after a disappointing start. Beltran isn't getting any younger so maybe there's less optimism there. Tex is what he is at this point. Injured often, pretty good pop, .250 hitter or less. Headley was decent for them last year. I don't know if he'll return to his form a few seasons ago when he had a career year though. And who knows what to expect from A-Rod. I expect an ugly season for him, at least as far as his reception. I don't expect Yankee fans to be too supportive either.

I treat A Rod the same as any other steroid player... I don't care... If he can still drive in runs... that's all I care about...

When the pitchers are juicing, and the hitters are juicing, they are on the same playing field as far as I'm concerned.

Baseball is going to be very hard for me... AT 31.. I basically grew up with Derek jeter... watching the Yankees without him is going to be an adjustment for me

If he hits .333 and 15 dingers by mid june...i think the boos go away AT HOME.

That being said...i think the chances of that happening are roughly the chances of a small ball of frozen water in beelzebubs home town.  I expect sonething much closer to .230 with 3 dingers...and a possible release...by june.

I'm also with you, especially with this crew, on "i dont care if he used if he can produce". Not now, anyway. I mean, hes not at the top of my fav player list, and i aint buying his jersey, but....

If any player produces, the fans will overlook the negatives. But there's a lot more to dislike about A-Rod aside from the steroids. He may be a decent guy in real life. But he comes off as pompous and arrogant. Some questionable antics on the field with slapping the ball out of Arroyo's glove and yelling "I got it" when rounding 3rd on a pop up. Those things stick with me more than the steroids. I cheered for Manny for years and he was less than clean. Ortiz? Nomar? The list is probably very lengthy.

Plus, as pilf pointed out, A-Rod is nowhere near the player he once was. He WAS awesome. The best player in the game for awhile. But last we saw of him he was a shadow of his former self. We'll see what he has left in the tank. I'm not ashamed to say that I hope it's not much.

To be honest....i hope its caregorically one or the other. And i wouldnt mind much if it was "not much".

Release him, aka the single hit to the wallet, and free up the soft cap space for next year.

I almost wonder if thats really their plan. Chalk this one up to a test season, with the thought you can see what the youngsters have for you. See how tanaka manages. And then get rid of arod around june, so you can go into 2016 and load up for bear.

Idk. None of it makes total sense to me... Every time i think i might have figured it out, i realize i don't. Cashman seems to have suddenly decided this team is the royals....young, good defense, descent pitching, no payroll. Its the weirdest fucking thing...

He wants to run the team like hes a small market GM going forward.... BUT he already has so much tied up in guys way past their prime that it's not going to work...The team needs the Beltrans and Teixeras to produce in order to compete.

I also think A Rod needs to tear the cover off the ball from the get go otherwise they are not going to put up with his distractions and bite the bullet.

As for pedro... as a Yankee fan... how could you not love to hate him? He was the perfect enemy! He was simply one of the best I have ever seen to boot.

Him serving up shots to Godzilla in game 6 vs the Phils was pretty sweet too!

[tim_m]

And I'd love for you to elaborate on your Pettitte views, I have a feeling they coincide with mine.

To regurgitate a classic HOF clich?, "The only way he's gettin' in is buyin' a ticket."

I think his chances are slim. They exist..based almost solely on his post-season numbers (which are amongst the best, if not the best, in MLB history). But I just don't think that's enough.

If you balance that post season success (which might have squeeked him in toward the end of his eligibility, maybe) with the PED use and....unless the voters suddenly change their tune...you're left on the outside looking in. The vets might get him in, because he is VERY well liked by other players (and, heck, by the media, too).

His regular season numbers definitely do not warrant, IMHO, election.  He was a slightly above average lefty, with great durability (mostly) in a season, during the regular season.  He didn't compile enough wins to give you pause, his ERA isn't great, his Sabermetric stats aren't noteworthy.  He'll probably make the ballot, and sit there until his eligibility is up. 

I love the guy, but, yeah....I think chances are the only way he's getting in is when he visits a couple times for Mo and Jeter's induction ceremonies in a few years.

Had he kept playing right until he retired the second time his numbers could've made it much harder.

[faldor]

I saw an interview on the Sunday night sports show on the Boston CBS affiliate last night with Pedro. He was asked about the Zimmer incident and he said that it was the one thing he regretted in his career and if he could do it all over again he would run the other way. He said he was just reacting in the moment but certainly seemed remorseful looking back at it. He also said he takes a lot of pride for competing clean while many others succumbed to the temptation of PED's. He said he didn't take the short cuts for recovery, and that's the reason he'd miss 4 or 5 starts a year, to let his arm heal. He also said he can't blame people for questioning if he truly was clean, considering the era in which he played in. But he's stressed his clean work ethic a number of times FWIW.

[GeorgeSteele]

Just to toss in my 2 cents on Pedro, agreed he crossed the line too many times with the hit batsmen, but prime or no prime, there was none then and haven't been since any pitcher I enjoyed watching more than him (other than maybe Maddux).  Pure artistry.  

As far as the Don Zimmer thing, not proud to admit this, but knowing that Zimmer was not injured when it happened, watching that clip now makes me laugh.  Pedro was still a dick to do it... but everything about it was just so absurd, I can't help giggling as I'm watching it.  Even the head-grab takedown... of all options he had, why do that?  Wild stuff.

Poor Zim. RIP. I don't think there was a right move in that situation. It was going to be ugly regardless of any decisions that may have been made.

The Mets future is looking pretty bright for the first time in a long time. Still could use a little more on the offensive side I'd say, but the young arms they have can't be overlooked. Plus it helps them that the rest of the division is down, except for the Nats of course. But they could make some noise.

Agreed about the Mets' bats, the lineup is just not very good.  David Wright is a shell of his former self but he's still probably their best hitter, which says it all really.

[Falcon]

Just saw Jeff Passan tweet this:

Five richest estimated payrolls for 2015: Dodgers ($262.6M), Yankees ($210.9M), Red Sox ($180.5M), Tigers ($168.8M) and Giants ($160.7M).

Tim, pilf, - yikes.

[GeorgeSteele]

Just saw Jeff Passan tweet this:

Five richest estimated payrolls for 2015: Dodgers ($262.6M), Yankees ($210.9M), Red Sox ($180.5M), Tigers ($168.8M) and Giants ($160.7M).

Tim, pilf, - yikes.

Here's Passan's article on that:  http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mlb-on-course-to-spend-more-than--4-billion-in-2015-190039420.html

I think part of the reason those 5 teams are perennial contenders is that ownership reinvests so much of their earnings into team.  The Yankees basically print money these days, it would be criminal to spend any less than they do on talent.  In contrast, you have clowns like the Wilpons, who have the Mets' payroll well under $100M, which is beyond embarrassing.  That's less than KC, Cincinnati, Milwaukee and Minnesota. 

[pilferk]

Just saw Jeff Passan tweet this:

Five richest estimated payrolls for 2015: Dodgers ($262.6M), Yankees ($210.9M), Red Sox ($180.5M), Tigers ($168.8M) and Giants ($160.7M).

Tim, pilf, - yikes.

If you mean "Yikes..that's lousy value for their dollar."...yup.

But most of that money is going to 5 guys: Tex (23.1 million), CC (23 million), Arod (22 million), Ellsbury (21.1 million) and Tanaka (22 million).  There's 111.2 million, right there (or just over half their payroll).

McCann is good for ANOTHER 17 million, too. Beltran for another 15 million....now you're at 145-ish? 

So, working backwards and assuming the projected number is right...thats 65 million for the rest of the team (so, the other 18 guys). And even that's misleading..since Gardner's taking 12.5 of that 65.  So, really, 52.5 million for 17 guys.  That's ALMOST KC Royals/Miami Marlins/Tampa Bay of years past" levels of cheap.

AND I think, of those 7 guys I mentioned initially....2 guys (Ellsbury and Tanaka) are producing like "high paid players"?  And both are fragile....

Yup, not looking so hot....

[faldor]

Just saw Jeff Passan tweet this:

Five richest estimated payrolls for 2015: Dodgers ($262.6M), Yankees ($210.9M), Red Sox ($180.5M), Tigers ($168.8M) and Giants ($160.7M).

Tim, pilf, - yikes.

If you mean "Yikes..that's lousy value for their dollar."...yup.

But most of that money is going to 5 guys: Tex (23.1 million), CC (23 million), Arod (22 million), Ellsbury (21.1 million) and Tanaka (22 million).  There's 111.2 million, right there (or just over half their payroll).

McCann is good for ANOTHER 17 million, too. Beltran for another 15 million....now you're at 145-ish? 

So, working backwards and assuming the projected number is right...thats 65 million for the rest of the team (so, the other 18 guys). And even that's misleading..since Gardner's taking 12.5 of that 65.  So, really, 52.5 million for 17 guys.  That's ALMOST KC Royals/Miami Marlins/Tampa Bay of years past" levels of cheap.

AND I think, of those 7 guys I mentioned initially....2 guys (Ellsbury and Tanaka) are producing like "high paid players"?  And both are fragile....

Yup, not looking so hot....

the Tigers have a similar salary structure with more than half of their payroll going to a handful of players, and that's with Scherzer as a free agent still. Most of the big market teams spend top dollar on a few core group and try to build around them with cheaper vets or better yet, cheap young players who they have under control for years to come. The key is, spending that money wisely. We've seen of late, even the Yankees seem to have a limit as to how effectively they can cover up bad contracts.

[tim_m]

Some breaking news. It appears Max Scherzer is likely headed to the Nats with a 7 year deal.

[tim_m]

It's now final. 7 year deal north of 180M.