Videos of Richard Fortus guitar workshop in Sydney (November 20, 2014)

[jarmo]

Yeah, but we've known that for years.  I didn't even think that warranted real discussion as its not remotely new.  Ron has been telling us that himself for how long now?

He's been saying they haven't gotten together to work. Richard's saying he has worked on stuff with Dj.
People took Ron's comments over the years to mean that nothing has been done by anybody. Which turns out to be false.



/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

Yeah, but we've known that for years.  I didn't even think that warranted real discussion as its not remotely new.  Ron has been telling us that himself for how long now?

He's been saying they haven't gotten together to work. Richard's saying he has worked on stuff with Dj.
People took Ron's comments over the years to mean that nothing has been done by anybody. Which turns out to be false.



/jarmo

So doesnt that beg the question why is ron left out of the process?

[jarmo]

So doesnt that beg the question why is ron left out of the process?

Possibly. Maybe his parts are done?

People kept bashing Dj and Richard for their comments... Yet none of the comments said by any of them invalidate any other comments.




/jarmo

[HBK]

Yeah, but we've known that for years.  I didn't even think that warranted real discussion as its not remotely new.  Ron has been telling us that himself for how long now?

He's been saying they haven't gotten together to work. Richard's saying he has worked on stuff with Dj.
People took Ron's comments over the years to mean that nothing has been done by anybody. Which turns out to be false.



/jarmo

So doesnt that beg the question why is ron left out of the process?

Out Of What Process ?

[D-GenerationX]

So doesnt that beg the question why is ron left out of the process?

I'd think so.

Then you think about he stories about how they haze him pretty hard, couped with the fact no one from management will even return his calls for weeks...it doesn't paint a picture they value him all that much, does it?

[jarmo]

You're painting a one sided picture there.

Didn't he record more guitar parts than what appeared on Chinese Democracy? Or maybe the tracks they want to use already have enough guitars...




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

You're painting a one sided picture there.

Didn't he record more guitar parts than what appeared on Chinese Democracy? Or maybe the tracks they want to use already have enough guitars...

Maybe.  Or maybe its the stuff I said.

You may well be right.  But so might I.  I am only basing what I said on what I've been told.  Not taking what I've been told and looking for an alternative spin that puts things in a better light.

Sometimes, the bad light is how things are. 

[jarmo]

But so might I.  I am only basing what I said on what I've been told.  Not taking what I've been told and looking for an alternative spin that puts things in a better light.

Sometimes, the bad light is how things are. 

You've only heard one side. And because it's painting a certain kind of picture, you choose run with it.... If you were even remoltely objective, you'd think "Hey, so he says that, but maybe there's more to the story....".


"Three albums worth of material. Easy"


/jarmo

[Ginger King]

You're painting a one sided picture there.

Didn't he record more guitar parts than what appeared on Chinese Democracy? Or maybe the tracks they want to use already have enough guitars...

Maybe.  Or maybe its the stuff I said.

You may well be right.  But so might I.  I am only basing what I said on what I've been told.  Not taking what I've been told and looking for an alternative spin that puts things in a better light.

Sometimes, the bad light is how things are. 

Ron certainly appears to be, for lack of a better term, the red-headed stepchild (which I hate, btw).

Richard saying that no one has worked with him kind of reinforces the notion that he's on the outside looking in.  I don't think you can just assume that the next sentence is "But he has made valuable contributions on his own and is an integral part of the process."  

[D-GenerationX]

You're painting a one sided picture there.

Didn't he record more guitar parts than what appeared on Chinese Democracy? Or maybe the tracks they want to use already have enough guitars...

Maybe.  Or maybe its the stuff I said.

You may well be right.  But so might I.  I am only basing what I said on what I've been told.  Not taking what I've been told and looking for an alternative spin that puts things in a better light.

Sometimes, the bad light is how things are. 

Ron certainly appears to be, for lack of a better term, the red-headed stepchild (which I hate, btw).

Richard saying that no one has worked with him kind of reinforces the notion that he's on the outside looking in.  I don't think you can just assume that the next sentence is "But he has made valuable contributions on his own and is an integral part of the process."  

I'd agree.  That's a leap, and one you only make if you are very emotionally invested in having that be true.

[D-GenerationX]

But so might I.  I am only basing what I said on what I've been told.  Not taking what I've been told and looking for an alternative spin that puts things in a better light.

Sometimes, the bad light is how things are. 

You've only heard one side. And because it's painting a certain kind of picture, you choose run with it.... If you were even remoltely objective, you'd think "Hey, so he says that, but maybe there's more to the story....".

I have no reason to think Ron is flat out lying to us.  What's in it for him?

Then again, as you are so anxious to remind us, you are there and we are not.  Perhaps we should couple your access and your skepticism as a foundation to call some shenanigans on what he says?

[GeorgeSteele]

Could be wrong, but my feeling is that, in terms of creative input, writing, etc, neither Buckethead nor Ron were taken seriously by the other band members (other than Axl).  Robin had referred to Buckethead in an interview as a 'stunt guitarist', Tommy had said "Buckethead going away is the best thing that could've happened to the band", so perhaps unfairly, Ron may have inherited that disdain, coming in as the shredder/virtuoso guitarist. 

[jarmo]

It's not a case of lying. It's like you're looking a a painting but you can only see the bottom left corner. You try to judge the whole painting based on that....

I don't know about his issues with anybody. Band, management or anything. I read the same comments you read. But I'm more careful about thinking that's the way it is.
I'll give you an example. Remember a few years ago the band was rehearsing and Bumblefoot had a live stream of it? Well, he managed to stream part of Estranged. Surprise spoiled. Maybe it wasn't his intention, but maybe others become a bit wary of telling that person details far in advance?

Could be wrong, but my feeling is that, in terms of creative input, writing, etc, neither Buckethead nor Ron were taken seriously by the other band members (other than Axl).  Robin had referred to Buckethead in an interview as a 'stunt guitarist', Tommy had said "Buckethead going away is the best thing that could've happened to the band", so perhaps unfairly, Ron may have inherited that disdain, coming in as the shredder/virtuoso guitarist. 

Or Ron kept waiting for the band to get together instead of doing what the others did? And when he realized that, they already had enough ideas....




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Could be wrong, but my feeling is that, in terms of creative input, writing, etc, neither Buckethead nor Ron were taken seriously by the other band members (other than Axl).  Robin had referred to Buckethead in an interview as a 'stunt guitarist', Tommy had said "Buckethead going away is the best thing that could've happened to the band", so perhaps unfairly, Ron may have inherited that disdain, coming in as the shredder/virtuoso guitarist. 

Very solid point here.  Could well be.

[Ginger King]

Could be wrong, but my feeling is that, in terms of creative input, writing, etc, neither Buckethead nor Ron were taken seriously by the other band members (other than Axl).  Robin had referred to Buckethead in an interview as a 'stunt guitarist', Tommy had said "Buckethead going away is the best thing that could've happened to the band", so perhaps unfairly, Ron may have inherited that disdain, coming in as the shredder/virtuoso guitarist. 

Look, if you spend your time in the studio in a chicken coop watching hard core porn in a mask with a bucket on your head, then it's not hard to see why the other members didn't exactly relate to him.

Bucket and Ron are two totally different people.  There may be some parallels with playing styles, but that's it.

[GeorgeSteele]

Could be wrong, but my feeling is that, in terms of creative input, writing, etc, neither Buckethead nor Ron were taken seriously by the other band members (other than Axl).  Robin had referred to Buckethead in an interview as a 'stunt guitarist', Tommy had said "Buckethead going away is the best thing that could've happened to the band", so perhaps unfairly, Ron may have inherited that disdain, coming in as the shredder/virtuoso guitarist. 

Or Ron kept waiting for the band to get together instead of doing what the others did? And when he realized that, they already had enough ideas....

Could be 'and' instead of 'or'... both of our points could be right.  For example, Richard said he and DJ worked together on stuff, but not with Ron, indicating a line of communication among them that didn't exist with Ron.  Maybe I was harsh in thinking they don't respect what Ron brings to the table from a creative standpoint, but could be his style of playing is not something they relate to and would have difficulty collaborating with directly. 

[D-GenerationX]

Could be wrong, but my feeling is that, in terms of creative input, writing, etc, neither Buckethead nor Ron were taken seriously by the other band members (other than Axl).  Robin had referred to Buckethead in an interview as a 'stunt guitarist', Tommy had said "Buckethead going away is the best thing that could've happened to the band", so perhaps unfairly, Ron may have inherited that disdain, coming in as the shredder/virtuoso guitarist. 

Look, if you spend your time in the studio in a chicken coop watching hard core porn in a mask with a bucket on your head, then it's not hard to see why the other members didn't exactly relate to him.

Bucket and Ron are two totally different people.  There may be some parallels with playing styles, but that's it.

But maybe its like the pro golfer that doesn't respect the long drive guy.

[jarmo]

Or he adds some parts later once there's an almost finished song.



/jarmo

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

My thought is perhaps Ron had the opportunity to contribute, but chose not to.  Sounds like the other guys worked on stuff and submitted it to Axl.  Maybe Ron feels that as a band they should all write together and doesn't want to see his parts chopped up and put back together without his input. 

[JAEBALL]

My thought is perhaps Ron had the opportunity to contribute, but chose not to.  Sounds like the other guys worked on stuff and submitted it to Axl.  Maybe Ron feels that as a band they should all write together and doesn't want to see his parts chopped up and put back together without his input. 

That sounds very plausible.