GUNS N' ROSES: 'Reckless Road' Biography To Be Turned Into Movie

[Princess Leia]

With all due respect, you don't have your own image of him?

Sure you do.  The perpetually wronged and continually put upon crusader for all that is right and just. 

Are you under the impression we couldn't throw that back in your face every time?  Of course we could.  But what does it serve?  Would just make us look like whiners, which, I'm afraid also means...

Do I have an image of him based on interviews, Youtube clips and his albums? No.

Because you wouldn't concede that at gunpoint and have been arguing for...how many pages now, that they should be acknowledged along side the people that actually did the work being honored?

Do you type stuff and then immediately forget it?  Seems it, sometimes.

You seem to not understand that's going on here. Nobody has a problem with the old band being honored. Nobody said the Chinese era has the same impact as let's say Appetite. Nobody said that.

The issue is, some bands get honored for their whole career, others not.
You can't seem to understand this part, since all you can reply with is "other bands don't matter, it's GN'R".

Jarmo, I also said that the new band has been a revolving door. You can?t risk inducting a guy who might be gone the next day. Besides I said if the HOF gives a special right to Axl then they have to give it to anyone who request a special right as well. The HOF can?t do that. So my comment was not based only on the golden era.

We're not talking about inducting anybody. We're talking about how they could've handled it a bit differently and made Axl more welcome.
Some of the band guys have been in the band for more than a decade.

Did you even check out any of the other bands who have been inducted and how their former/current members got in?



/jarmo

Once again you can?t give a special right to one person. Then you have to give it to everyone else who wants something in particular.. It doesn?t matter how long Dizzy, Tommy or Pittman have been in the band. They could be gone tomorrow

[jarmo]

Well, to the rest of the world that doesn't get to pal around with him over chicken salad, that's what we go on.

Not really, you have the other side of the coin, but those people get labeled as ass kissers and whatnot.

What I also understand is that no one gives a shit about what happened after they broke up.   

Obviously some do since they bought Chinese Democracy and went to the shows. Or go to fan sites to post about how Axl should've done this or that.

How about some suggestion how this might be done?

How you acknowledge that the band didn't end in 1991?
All it would take is to have someone who doesn't limit themselves to thinking that the band ended in 1991 to induct the band. That's a start.

Once again you can´t give a special right to one person. Then you have to give it to everyone else who wants something in particular.. It doesn´t matter how long Dizzy, Tommy or Pittman have been in the band. They could be gone tomorrow

Yeah, and Steven Adler was replaced too. And Izzy.... And...




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

How you acknowledge that the band didn't end in 1991?
All it would take is to have someone who doesn't limit themselves to thinking that the band ended in 1991 to induct the band. That's a start.

For the purposes of this induction, it did.

And how do you even word that?  Does Billie Joe tack on some bit at the end how they are still "going strong" with a cast of characters none of you know?  Should one of the CD tunes been in the performance?

[D-GenerationX]

Jarmo...question.

You seem real big on how the band didn't end in the 90s, how Axl kept it all going.  You then reference all the people that still go to shows.

If CD had never come out, and Axl was just touring with this same band as GNR playing GNR tunes.....what changes?  Aren't all the people that are still buying tickets still doing so?

[jarmo]

First of, Bilie Joe shouldn't have been there.  

Some of the induction speeches I've seen are by people who actually respect the ones getting inducted.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsXrsmNjmYc

Jarmo...question.

You seem real big on how the band didn't end in the 90s, how Axl kept it all going.  You then reference all the people that still go to shows.

If CD had never come out, and Axl was just touring with this same band as GNR playing GNR tunes.....what changes?  Aren't all the people that are still buying tickets still doing so?

Apparently people go to the shows because of the new music. That's what I've been reading.
Yes, some people go to the shows to hear the hits. It's true for most bands. Do people go see Metallica only because of Death Magnetic?




/jarmo

[faldor]

Of course the HOF do it in their own terms! All the HOF in sports or whatever work the same way. Can you imagine the NFL HOF doing things according to Bill Belichick terms one year and Jerry Jones terms the following year?

I understand disagreements. Hey I disagree with many things about The Oscars. But They can?t do things according to what Quentin Tarantino or Angelina Jolie want. And I don?t think Tarantino feels insulted.

It becomes an issue when their "terms" are inconsistent and all over the place. I'll admit there probably isn't a perfect formula when choosing which band members get inducted. It's a case by case basis. For some bands they seem to get it right in the eyes of most. In others, not so much. Sports HOF's are much different, so there's no real comparison there. Individuals are inducted in sports, not entire teams. The Rock Hall inducts certain members of the bands that get in and the way they choose is secretive in a way. In sports they vote on the individual players. You can go look up what % of the vote each player gets. Again, not a perfect system, but it's easier to explain. Maybe they could adopt a system like that. It may not change anything, but at least we'd have a comparison of sorts. Sports HOF's are also WAY MORE revered and less criticized than the Rock Hall. So again, not a good comparison. Are you going to start to leave guys out of the Rock Hall because of drug use? You'd have a pretty empty Hall.  

Good or bad you have to respect everyone?s particular system of selection. We all know nothing is perfect yet they can?t go out there giving special rights to one person. Once you go that path you have to give it to anyone else who wants a special right. Then you end up with anarchy and unfairness regardeless.

I don?t know why it is so hard to understand that new GN?R and CD didn?t make the same impact than the old band with AFD and UYI made. On top of that the new band is a revolving door. Imagine if BBF would?ve been inducted. It is clear that it wasn?t worthy. Any current member could be out at some point. We could even have a reunion in a couple of years. It?s not likely but never say never. With so much uncertanty you have to go with what was the golden era.

I think it would've been a little weird if Axl showed up and they failed to at least reference that The band has continued on with Axl at the helm for the last decade plus. Regardless of what impact they've had. Thats not even broaching the subject of who should or shouldn't be inducted. To honor a band like they stopped existing in the early 90's undermines everything Axl has tried to do since then. Again, you can argue he's done damage to the brand, he's wasted his prime years, etc. That's besides the point. The fact is, Chinese Democracy was released, and the band toured over the course of the last decade. If the Hall was unwilling to recognize that in SOME way, I could see why Axl could get a little upset.

[D-GenerationX]

First of, Bilie Joe shouldn't have been there.  

Some of the induction speeches I've seen are by people who actually respect the ones getting inducted.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsXrsmNjmYc

Billie Joe was a goofy choice.  Not going to get an argument from me on that.

But perhaps they had trouble getting people?  I could never figure out how Slash or Duff, guys with actual friends the industry, couldn't have come up with a better name.

Jarmo...question.

You seem real big on how the band didn't end in the 90s, how Axl kept it all going.  You then reference all the people that still go to shows.

If CD had never come out, and Axl was just touring with this same band as GNR playing GNR tunes.....what changes?  Aren't all the people that are still buying tickets still doing so?

Apparently people go to the shows because of the new music. That's what I've been reading.
Yes, some people go to the shows to hear the hits. It's true for most bands. Do people go see Metallica only because of Death Magnetic?

I contend 10 out of every 10 people in every people are there because they are monster fans of Axl Rose and will roll with whatever he's doing with whoever he's doing it with.

I also contend that attendance would not be down one bit if CD never came out.

I do not believe there is one person there in those buildings that is there for CD material, but is simply willing to endure the old hits.  That this is some sort of Twilight Zone where they are up rocking during 'Better', but sitting on their hands bored during 'Sweet Child O' Mine'.

[jarmo]

I also contend that attendance would not be down one bit if CD never came out.

I do not believe there is one person there in those buildings that is there for CD material, but is simply willing to endure the old hits.  That this is some sort of Twilight Zone where they are up rocking during 'Better', but sitting on their hands bored during 'Sweet Child O' Mine'.

But you guys have been arguing that there needs to be a new album before the next tour. 



/jarmo

[faldor]

I don?t know why it is so hard to understand that new GN?R and CD didn?t make the same impact than the old band with AFD and UYI made. On top of that the new band is a revolving door. Imagine if BBF would?ve been inducted. It is clear that it wasn?t worthy. Any current member could be out at some point. We could even have a reunion in a couple of years. It?s not likely but never say never. With so much uncertanty you have to go with what was the golden era.

Yep.

And just to touch on some of the other stuff.

"Maybe he wanted the new band to be acknowledged in some way"

OK...how does that go, exactly?  Does Billie Joe finish with :

"And then, after everyone quit, Axl soldiered on and eventually put out 'Chinese Democracy' 16 years later."  Then we pan to the current guys at the table, half of whom aren't even in the group of people Billie Joe is talking about.  Come on.  I seriously meant it when I said the current guys likely didn't want any part of that.  It's awkward and weird.

"Maybe Axl wanted the current guys to be able to perform."

Be serious.  He's inviting that comparison?  How would that work?  The rest of GNR and Myles go, and then the current band goes?  Does the current band play any of the old songs?

It was going to be an awkward situation regardless. IF Axl showed up, what harm would it have done to reference that they are still active? They don't have to give an annual rundown of the last 10 years, but at least acknowledge that The band is still active. I doubt people would have booed, if Axl and Slash were in the same room together.

[D-GenerationX]

But you guys have been arguing that there needs to be a new album before the next tour. 

Yeah, to be considered a serious and viable band, which we are constantly assured they are.

The very second they just come out and say "you know what, we're just going to tour and that's all there is, that's who we are", people will stop asking about a new album.

But they have to make a choice on that.  We can't do it for them. 

[jarmo]

Well, some people need daily reaffirmation.

Some like to be told they are loved by their favorite band. Others apparently need to be told that the band wants to release new music.
The fact that the lead singer has talked about it on numerous occasions isn't evidence enough. They need to hear it more, and more often.



I've been to shows when the Internet connection went down so I couldn't post any updates and some started to think there was a riot or the show didn't happen.

Everybody's different.
People assume different things.


/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Well, some people need daily reaffirmation.

Surely there is a happy medium between daily affirmation and 7-10 year intervals though, right?

[jarmo]

Considering he talked about new music last year, there's a while still left before we get to that point.
Keep holding your breath! 


/jarmo

[Limulus]

yes, Jarmo, Axl tricked out the name. it was an ego power move all of his own. Alan Niven, Slash, Duff and lots of others said this multiple times. even the attorneys back then didnt dare to touch the brand name subject like that. also he didnt come up with the name all on his own, he kinda took it from Tracii (who still is called "Guns"), Hollywood Rose and the girl he mentioned in his 12/08 chats. besides that it was just a little name back then, like every garage band has to pick at a point, no brand from the beginning but he twisted it like that, its part of his weird view of reality.
But.....it was also a group effort with splitted rights to the name up until middle of the UYI tours. by the way thats also when Steph came in and it all went more and more nuts.

[D-GenerationX]

Considering he talked about new music last year, there's a while still left before we get to that point.

We're getting close.

1994 : Last original GNR release

2001 : Holy shit, he actually has new songs

2008 : Holy shit, he actually put out an album

Now its 2015.  Getting tight.

[jarmo]

Considering he talked about new music last year, there's a while still left before we get to that point.

We're getting close.

1994 : Last original GNR release

2001 : Holy shit, he actually has new songs

2008 : Holy shit, he actually put out an album

Now its 2015.  Getting tight.

You forgot 1999.
How could you?




/jarmo

[Princess Leia]

Well, to the rest of the world that doesn't get to pal around with him over chicken salad, that's what we go on.

Not really, you have the other side of the coin, but those people get labeled as ass kissers and whatnot.

What I also understand is that no one gives a shit about what happened after they broke up.   

Obviously some do since they bought Chinese Democracy and went to the shows. Or go to fan sites to post about how Axl should've done this or that.

How about some suggestion how this might be done?

How you acknowledge that the band didn't end in 1991?
All it would take is to have someone who doesn't limit themselves to thinking that the band ended in 1991 to induct the band. That's a start.

Once again you can?t give a special right to one person. Then you have to give it to everyone else who wants something in particular.. It doesn?t matter how long Dizzy, Tommy or Pittman have been in the band. They could be gone tomorrow

Yeah, and Steven Adler was replaced too. And Izzy.... And...




/jarmo

Then we go back to impact that Izzy Adler, Slash and Duff made despite the fact they left. In all honesty I don?t think it was the right time to induct GN?R. But they got the votes. And those who voted wanted the original line up. Axl could?ve shown up and thank all the line ups just like he did when he got the Revolver Magazine Award last year. The saddest thing is that now Axl will never get inducted when he really deserves it

[JAEBALL]

Well, to the rest of the world that doesn't get to pal around with him over chicken salad, that's what we go on.

Not really, you have the other side of the coin, but those people get labeled as ass kissers and whatnot.

What I also understand is that no one gives a shit about what happened after they broke up.   

Obviously some do since they bought Chinese Democracy and went to the shows. Or go to fan sites to post about how Axl should've done this or that.

How about some suggestion how this might be done?

How you acknowledge that the band didn't end in 1991?
All it would take is to have someone who doesn't limit themselves to thinking that the band ended in 1991 to induct the band. That's a start.

Once again you can?t give a special right to one person. Then you have to give it to everyone else who wants something in particular.. It doesn?t matter how long Dizzy, Tommy or Pittman have been in the band. They could be gone tomorrow

Yeah, and Steven Adler was replaced too. And Izzy.... And...




/jarmo

Then we go back to impact that Izzy Adler, Slash and Duff made despite the fact they left. In all honesty I don?t think it was the right time to induct GN?R. But they got the votes. And those who voted wanted the original line up. Axl could?ve shown up and thank all the line ups just like he did when he got the Revolver Magazine Award last year. The saddest thing is that now Axl will never get inducted when he really deserves it

I'm almost positive that he WAS inducted despite his request not to be.....

[D-GenerationX]

You forgot 1999.
How could you?

That's right, 'Oh My God'.

I did forget.  I really like that tune too.

[Bridge]

Then we go back to impact that Izzy, Adler, Slash, and Duff made despite the fact they left.

Was just gonna say that.  The years they were in the band etched Guns N Roses in stone, something that nobody after them will ever be able to claim, regardless of the length of tenure.

Axl could?ve shown up and thank all the line ups just like he did when he got the Revolver Magazine Award last year.

Just watched that.  He said it all as quickly as he could.   

I'm almost positive that he WAS inducted despite his request not to be.....

Axl was indeed inducted into the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame.  I knew they would anyway, despite his request for exclusion.  Billie Joe described and paid tribute to Axl but just didn't mention Axl's name out loud whilst doing it.