GUNS N' ROSES: 'Reckless Road' Biography To Be Turned Into Movie

[jarmo]

I disagree.  I don't think insults factor into this at all.

Of course you don't because it's Axl!

However, if you want to go down that road, I think a better case is made that its an insult to the guys that did the work being honored to have other guys stand up there with them who did not contribute anything to the reason they are there that night.

Yeah, and having Axl stand up there with some people who wanted the band to end isn't insulting to him at all. You make no sense.

The knee jerk is to say that 15 years, why, that's half of the band's career!  Yeah...in calendar days maybe.  But the past 15 years have netted you 15 songs. 

Robert Trujillo had been in Metallica for about six years and played on one studio album when he was inducted. Nothing to do with the past success or their legacy as pioneers of a genre.


You can twist it anyway you want, but the fact remains, their decisions make no fucking sense. They make sense to the "it's not GN'R" crowd, obviously.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I disagree.  I don't think insults factor into this at all.

Of course you don't because it's Axl!

That's just you doing your usual defender of his feelings bit.  Projecting slights that aren't there, to then rail against, thus showing your "loyalty".

There's no insult here.

Yeah, and having Axl stand up there with some people who wanted the band to end isn't insulting to him at all. You make no sense.

If anything doesn't make sense here, its that statement.

Robert Trujillo had been in Metallica for about six years and played on one studio album when he was inducted. Nothing to do with the past success or their legacy as pioneers of a genre.

You can twist it anyway you want

So can you, it seems.

But what did or did not happen in Metallica, or what did or did not happen in any other band you want to try and use to change the subject, has zero bearing on what the current guys or the last album means to the GNR legacy.

Your beef is with the wasted years of inactivity.  Not the evil bastards at the HOF out to get Axl Rose.

[jarmo]

The legacy?

Many bands have had highs and lows. Are you saying Metallica with Trujillo on bass has had the same impact as they did with their albums in the 1980s or 1991? Of course not.
If they were inducted based on their legacy, they should've only inducted them until about 1993?
Red Hot Chili Peppers get former members inducted that didn't even play on any major hits. What about their legacy?

You see, some bands get members inducted who joined the bands AFTER their had their most popular era. In GN'R's case, that's just ignored in order to facilitate that reunion.
And people championing that idea, or who think this band isn't GN'R,  don't see anything wrong, or even insulting, with this.

If you think the band ended in the 1990s, of course you agree. The RNRHOF is giving you evidence that your idea of the band ending is valid. Unfortunately for you, not all fans agree and the fact remains, the band didn't end.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Jesus Fucking Christ, Jarmo.

What did or did not happen in some other band has nothing to do with the 'Chinese Democracy' saga or its lack of impact on GNR's standing with 95 plus percent of the world.

Deal with it.

[jarmo]

I'm dealing with people who have no understanding of why Axl didn't feel welcome at this museum.

Green Day inducted GN'R. Green Day? 



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I found them to be an odd pick as well.

[JAEBALL]

I found them to be an odd pick as well.

They should have had Art of Anarchy do it 

[faldor]

Of course the HOF do it in their own terms! All the HOF in sports or whatever work the same way. Can you imagine the NFL HOF doing things according to Bill Belichick terms one year and Jerry Jones terms the following year?

I understand disagreements. Hey I disagree with many things about The Oscars. But They can?t do things according to what Quentin Tarantino or Angelina Jolie want. And I don?t think Tarantino feels insulted.

It becomes an issue when their "terms" are inconsistent and all over the place. I'll admit there probably isn't a perfect formula when choosing which band members get inducted. It's a case by case basis. For some bands they seem to get it right in the eyes of most. In others, not so much. Sports HOF's are much different, so there's no real comparison there. Individuals are inducted in sports, not entire teams. The Rock Hall inducts certain members of the bands that get in and the way they choose is secretive in a way. In sports they vote on the individual players. You can go look up what % of the vote each player gets. Again, not a perfect system, but it's easier to explain. Maybe they could adopt a system like that. It may not change anything, but at least we'd have a comparison of sorts. Sports HOF's are also WAY MORE revered and less criticized than the Rock Hall. So again, not a good comparison. Are you going to start to leave guys out of the Rock Hall because of drug use? You'd have a pretty empty Hall.  

[faldor]

Jesus Fucking Christ, Jarmo.

What did or did not happen in some other band has nothing to do with the 'Chinese Democracy' saga or its lack of impact on GNR's standing with 95 plus percent of the world.

Deal with it.

But it does matter when discussing why Axl didn't agree with the Hall's decision and how they come up with it. You HAVE to look at other bands to get some sort of comparison. You can't live in a vacuum where GNR is the only band ever inducted. If that was the case you'd have no argument. But if other bands have guys who appeared on one album or were in the band for a few years who get inducted. Well there's some sort of comparison there where people, Axl included, could scratch their heads and wonder why he gets in but he doesn't, etc.

[D-GenerationX]

Yeah, but would any of those other bands have to interact with Slash for a few minutes of their lives?

[Limulus]

Yeah, but would any of those other bands have to interact with Slash for a few minutes of their lives?

you hit the nail! 
the main reason of Axl not attending (still) is his Slash psychosis.

as people are speculating in this thread, lets pull out an idea not being discussed yet:
imagine Axl could or did not trick out the the GN'R brand name back then, so the name GN'R really were buried in mid 90s, and they left each other as bitter and hurt as they did in reality. now answer this:

would he then have gone to the HOF in 2012?

[D-GenerationX]

you hit the nail! 
the main reason of Axl not attending (still) is his Slash psychosis.

Yep.

as people are speculating in this thread, lets pull out an idea not being discussed yet:
imagine Axl could or did not trick out the the GN'R brand name back then, so the name GN'R really were buried in mid 90s, and they left each other as bitter and hurt as they did in reality. now answer this:

would he then have gone to the HOF in 2012?

Nope.

[Princess Leia]

Of course the HOF do it in their own terms! All the HOF in sports or whatever work the same way. Can you imagine the NFL HOF doing things according to Bill Belichick terms one year and Jerry Jones terms the following year?

I understand disagreements. Hey I disagree with many things about The Oscars. But They can?t do things according to what Quentin Tarantino or Angelina Jolie want. And I don?t think Tarantino feels insulted.

It becomes an issue when their "terms" are inconsistent and all over the place. I'll admit there probably isn't a perfect formula when choosing which band members get inducted. It's a case by case basis. For some bands they seem to get it right in the eyes of most. In others, not so much. Sports HOF's are much different, so there's no real comparison there. Individuals are inducted in sports, not entire teams. The Rock Hall inducts certain members of the bands that get in and the way they choose is secretive in a way. In sports they vote on the individual players. You can go look up what % of the vote each player gets. Again, not a perfect system, but it's easier to explain. Maybe they could adopt a system like that. It may not change anything, but at least we'd have a comparison of sorts. Sports HOF's are also WAY MORE revered and less criticized than the Rock Hall. So again, not a good comparison. Are you going to start to leave guys out of the Rock Hall because of drug use? You'd have a pretty empty Hall.  

Good or bad you have to respect everyone?s particular system of selection. We all know nothing is perfect yet they can?t go out there giving special rights to one person. Once you go that path you have to give it to anyone else who wants a special right. Then you end up with anarchy and unfairness regardeless.

I don?t know why it is so hard to understand that new GN?R and CD didn?t make the same impact than the old band with AFD and UYI made. On top of that the new band is a revolving door. Imagine if BBF would?ve been inducted. It is clear that it wasn?t worthy. Any current member could be out at some point. We could even have a reunion in a couple of years. It?s not likely but never say never. With so much uncertanty you have to go with what was the golden era.

[jarmo]

as people are speculating in this thread, lets pull out an idea not being discussed yet:
imagine Axl could or did not trick out the the GN'R brand name back then, so the name GN'R really were buried in mid 90s, and they left each other as bitter and hurt as they did in reality. now answer this:

would he then have gone to the HOF in 2012?

Trick? That alone speaks volumes of your mentality regarding this.
It's his band name. He came up with it before many of those other guys were in the band. You don't like that? Too bad.


You mean, if he didn't get his band name, would he have gone in 2012?
Maybe he would've gotten it some other way. There's evidence the name Guns N' Roses existed before that show in June 1985. Just stating facts.

IF GN'R had ended in 1993 or whatever, I'm sure he'd feel different about the whole situation. Then it's celebrating a band he was in for a while. Similar to The Beatles, Nirvana or any other band that ceased to exist.


He knew Slash was gonna be there in 2011, but he didn't just say "no". Obviously for you guys this is all part of the evil master plan Axl had. Fits the image you have of him.

I don?t know why it is so hard to understand that new GN?R and CD didn?t make the same impact than the old band with AFD and UYI made.

Nobody even claims anything like that!
Other bands have gotten members inducted, members who had little to do with the band's so called legacy. It's been mentioned many times, yet you guys who defend the right for the RNRHOF to dictate who's important and who's not in bands, never acknowledge that with anything other than "other bands don't matter".




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I don?t know why it is so hard to understand that new GN?R and CD didn?t make the same impact than the old band with AFD and UYI made. On top of that the new band is a revolving door. Imagine if BBF would?ve been inducted. It is clear that it wasn?t worthy. Any current member could be out at some point. We could even have a reunion in a couple of years. It?s not likely but never say never. With so much uncertanty you have to go with what was the golden era.

Yep.

And just to touch on some of the other stuff.

"Maybe he wanted the new band to be acknowledged in some way"

OK...how does that go, exactly?  Does Billie Joe finish with :

"And then, after everyone quit, Axl soldiered on and eventually put out 'Chinese Democracy' 16 years later."  Then we pan to the current guys at the table, half of whom aren't even in the group of people Billie Joe is talking about.  Come on.  I seriously meant it when I said the current guys likely didn't want any part of that.  It's awkward and weird.

"Maybe Axl wanted the current guys to be able to perform."

Be serious.  He's inviting that comparison?  How would that work?  The rest of GNR and Myles go, and then the current band goes?  Does the current band play any of the old songs?

[D-GenerationX]

IF GN'R had ended in 1993 or whatever, I'm sure he'd feel different about the whole situation. Then it's celebrating a band he was in for a while. Similar to The Beatles, Nirvana or any other band that ceased to exist.

He knew Slash was gonna be there in 2011, but he didn't just say "no". Obviously for you guys this is all part of the evil master plan Axl had. Fits the image you have of him.

With all due respect, you don't have your own image of him?

Sure you do.  The perpetually wronged and continually put upon crusader for all that is right and just. 

Are you under the impression we couldn't throw that back in your face every time?  Of course we could.  But what does it serve?  Would just make us look like whiners, which, I'm afraid also means...

I don?t know why it is so hard to understand that new GN?R and CD didn?t make the same impact than the old band with AFD and UYI made.

Nobody even claims anything like that!

Really?

Because you wouldn't concede that at gunpoint and have been arguing for...how many pages now, that they should be acknowledged along side the people that actually did the work being honored?

Do you type stuff and then immediately forget it?  Seems it, sometimes.

[Princess Leia]

 Jarmo, I also said that the new band has been a revolving door. You can?t risk inducting a guy who might be gone the next day. Besides I said if the HOF gives a special right to Axl then they have to give it to anyone who request a special right as well. The HOF can?t do that. So my comment was not based only on the golden era.

But yes, there were bands like Van Halen and both David Lee Roth and Sammy Haggar were there. But they didn?t change their singer 100 times.

[D-GenerationX]

But yes, there were bands like Van Halen and both David Lee Roth and Sammy Haggar were there. But they didn?t change their singer 100 times.

And there is your problem.  Well, a big part of it.

Its not a case of inducting 2 singers.  Or inducting 2 lead guitarists.  This is a case of inducting the band everyone knows...along with a shout out to the revolving cast of people Axl has tried to make of a go of it with since.

We are quick to laud to Axl for all the bravery and defiance of continuing on, but then we never seem to want to acknowledge any of the problems that bought him.  Or if we do, we have countless caveats why its not his fault.

[jarmo]

With all due respect, you don't have your own image of him?

Sure you do.  The perpetually wronged and continually put upon crusader for all that is right and just. 

Are you under the impression we couldn't throw that back in your face every time?  Of course we could.  But what does it serve?  Would just make us look like whiners, which, I'm afraid also means...

Do I have an image of him based on interviews, Youtube clips and his albums? No.

Because you wouldn't concede that at gunpoint and have been arguing for...how many pages now, that they should be acknowledged along side the people that actually did the work being honored?

Do you type stuff and then immediately forget it?  Seems it, sometimes.

You seem to not understand that's going on here. Nobody has a problem with the old band being honored. Nobody said the Chinese era has the same impact as let's say Appetite. Nobody said that.

The issue is, some bands get honored for their whole career, others not.
You can't seem to understand this part, since all you can reply with is "other bands don't matter, it's GN'R".

Jarmo, I also said that the new band has been a revolving door. You can?t risk inducting a guy who might be gone the next day. Besides I said if the HOF gives a special right to Axl then they have to give it to anyone who request a special right as well. The HOF can?t do that. So my comment was not based only on the golden era.

We're not talking about inducting anybody. We're talking about how they could've handled it a bit differently and made Axl more welcome.
Some of the band guys have been in the band for more than a decade.

Did you even check out any of the other bands who have been inducted and how their former/current members got in?



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Do I have an image of him based on interviews, Youtube clips and his albums? No.

Well, to the rest of the world that doesn't get to pal around with him over chicken salad, that's what we go on.

Anecdotal evidence tends to be overlooked as it can rarely be proven or disproven.

The issue is, some bands get honored for their whole career, others not.
You can't seem to understand this part, since all you can reply with is "other bands don't matter, it's GN'R".

Oh, I understand it.

What I also understand is that no one gives a shit about what happened after they broke up.  That's the part YOU don't understand.  Or, at best, understand people might think that, but they are wrong and cruel and not respectful of Axl's feelings.

But its how it is, bro.  Outside of diehards that are never leaving his side, (as in, all of us) no one cares what he's done since the break-up.  This is highly unlikely to ever change.

You when you attempt that taunt towards me about not considering this current crop GNR?  Its not much of a taunt.  Well, its certainly not specific to me, nor some sort of statement how I am all alone on some island thinking that.

We're not talking about inducting anybody. We're talking about how they could've handled it a bit differently and made Axl more welcome.
Some of the band guys have been in the band for more than a decade.

You've thrown this out there a few times.  How about some suggestion how this might be done?

I just did a post a few up the page stating how this would be quite difficult to do.  Why don't you set me straight, if I am wrong?