GUNS N' ROSES: 'Reckless Road' Biography To Be Turned Into Movie

[TheBaconman]

It's largely an eye test, no question about it.  It ain't scientific.

But, I can't help feeling that some here are playing a bit intentionally dense to spare themselves having to admit certain realities.

I think it comes down to 3 criteria :

- who was the driving force in the creation of their best known stuff
- who was in the band when they did their most classic material
- who is the band in the eyes of the general public

This is why I can't put any of the post 1994 guys in, because they don't even meet one of those.  Or really, even come close on one of them.

I get the feeling that the overwhelming reason for pushback on that is having to concede the post 1994 guys don't match-up on any level.  Personally, I don't see how that's a diss.  Its a fact, but not an insult.

So I would argue that Chinease D was there most hyped anticipated and talked about album.  How could you say that album would not be classified as one of there most reconized albums.  Everyone knows about it. It has sold more copies than 2 of guns other records.   I think the ranking goes, afd yui 1/2 lies great hits chinease then the other ones.  So it sold ok

Guns is a very. Unique band.  The hall treated the band like they stopped in 1994.  When in fact some of there best work came years later

[D-GenerationX]

So I would argue that Chinease D was there most hyped anticipated and talked about album.  How could you say that album would not be classified as one of there most reconized albums.  Everyone knows about it.

Do they? 

Or is "Chinese Democracy" the catch all most people use to describe what Axl has done with the band since people stopped paying attention?  Which they couldn't tell you a thing about. 

Are any of these things ever heard :

- "Coming up, we got some Guns N' Roses for you guys"....<commercial break>...."Alright, as promised, its Guns N' Roses with <insert any Chinese Democracy song here>."
- "Guns N' Roses, the legendary rock band known for such songs as 'Welcome To The Jungle', 'November Rain', and 'Better'."
- "Hey, did you hear that Robin Finck is out of Guns N' Roses?  Yeah, DJ Ashba took his spot."

Keep in mind we are talking public perception, here.  Not that any of us lifelong, never going to lose us, diehard fans think TWAT is a great jam.

You would seriously argue those three examples are plausible things one might hear?  Ever??

[jarmo]

I get the feeling that the overwhelming reason for pushback on that is having to concede the post 1994 guys don't match-up on any level.  Personally, I don't see how that's a diss.  Its a fact, but not an insult.

I think it's insulting to Axl.

You can disregard whether or not you think any of those guys should have been inducted. Doesn't matter.

But obviously you have to be able to see that it's insulting to Axl for them to disregard anything relating to the spent 15+ years of his life that he kept going between the old band breaking up and the induction. Even if you're one of those fans who don't think the band is GN'R and you only love anything that happened before member X left the band. Even if those are your feelings about GN'R, surely you'll be able to see how it's disrespectful to act like those 15+ years never happened and they don't matter at all.




/jarmo

[TheBaconman]

So I would argue that Chinease D was there most hyped anticipated and talked about album.  How could you say that album would not be classified as one of there most reconized albums.  Everyone knows about it.

Do they? 

Or is "Chinese Democracy" the catch all most people use to describe what Axl has done with the band since people stopped paying attention?  Which they couldn't tell you a thing about. 

Are any of these things ever heard :

- "Coming up, we got some Guns N' Roses for you guys"....<commercial break>...."Alright, as promised, its Guns N' Roses with <insert any Chinese Democracy song here>."
- "Guns N' Roses, the legendary rock band known for such songs as 'Welcome To The Jungle', 'November Rain', and 'Better'."
- "Hey, did you hear that Robin Finck is out of Guns N' Roses?  Yeah, DJ Ashba took his spot."

Keep in mind we are talking public perception, here.  Not that any of us lifelong, never going to lose us, diehard fans think TWAT is a great jam.

You would seriously argue those three examples are plausible things one might hear?  Ever??

The same argument could be made nobody new Matt. Gilby or dizzy right? 

Most of the public can only name a hand full of gun n roses songs from the early era anyways.  So I am not to worried the general public cant name any songs off of CD.  It had no hits.  Sure most of the general public doesnt even know guns even has a live offical album!

Fact ia the hall of fame acted loke guns just stopped in 1994 and thats not right.   

[faldor]

It's largely an eye test, no question about it.  It ain't scientific.

But, I can't help feeling that some here are playing a bit intentionally dense to spare themselves having to admit certain realities.

I think it comes down to 3 criteria :

- who was the driving force in the creation of their best known stuff
- who was in the band when they did their most classic material
- who is the band in the eyes of the general public

This is why I can't put any of the post 1994 guys in, because they don't even meet one of those.  Or really, even come close on one of them.

I get the feeling that the overwhelming reason for pushback on that is having to concede the post 1994 guys don't match-up on any level.  Personally, I don't see how that's a diss.  Its a fact, but not an insult.

But don't you see how that might not sit well with Axl.? We're making a lot of assumptions here. Are we assuming he wanted all members post 1994 inducted? We don't really know that. Maybe he simply wanted them acknowledged and the Hall said no. With some bands they let guys who aren't all that high on the importance list get inducted. Or they let ex members perform with current members. We don't know what Axl expected of them, if anything at all. But he's hardly the only person to not show up to receive the honor. People have their reasons. They wanted that "reunion" because it would've been huge news. But they wanted it on their terms. I can't blame Axl for not wanting to appease their bloated egos.

[Princess Leia]

Of course the HOF do it in their own terms! All the HOF in sports or whatever work the same way. Can you imagine the NFL HOF doing things according to Bill Belichick terms one year and Jerry Jones terms the following year?

I understand disagreements. Hey I disagree with many things about The Oscars. But They can?t do things according to what Quentin Tarantino or Angelina Jolie want. And I don?t think Tarantino feels insulted.

[jarmo]

But They can?t do things according to what Quentin Tarantino or Angelina Jolie want. And I don?t think Tarantino feels insulted.

If they gave him an award based on Pulp Fiction alone today, maybe he would.




/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

But They can?t do things according to what Quentin Tarantino or Angelina Jolie want. And I don?t think Tarantino feels insulted.

If they gave him an award based on Pulp Fiction alone today, maybe he would.




/jarmo

We will be debating this till the end of time...

Is the HOF voting process absurd? 100 percent it is....

Did Axl feel slighted and does he have a right to feel that way ? Yeah of course he does

Was Matt or Dizzy's inclusion questionable? Yes (and no they're not big stars , so the argument thats why people get in is weak)

But the argument that Tommy deserves induction in to it under the GNR name because he has been on board for 17 years.... with all due respect...what are you guys smoking? The guy doesn't even fucking like the music that the band was inducted for creating !!!!

Forget people from other bands... we are just debating the GNR aspect of it.

I think they got it right with GNR's induction as terms of who they picked... Axl has the right to feel slighted about "disregarding" the 20 years it took to make Chinese Democracy but they were still honoring 90 percent of his career on the first year he was eligible... not exactly a disturbing insult either...

[JAEBALL]

GNR has such a crazy unique history...

No matter what they were not going to appease everybody... and eventually it's like where do you draw the line....

Should Brain AND Frank be inducted? Paul Huge? Josh Freese?

If you contend that the CD era of Guns N Roses belongs... do you induct all 15 guys involved ?

It's like.... as I said... crazy and unique...

So maybe Axl wanted them all included, maybe he didn't... but it's not an easy conclusion to come to

[jarmo]

Many bands who were inducted had a definite end. So it makes sense to celebrate their (short) history or whatever.

I get that some of you see it as GN'R ended in 1993. I get that part. But it didn't end. No matter how much you want the opposite to be true.
To suggest to Axl that he should go there to celebrate the band up until 1991 is kinda ridiculous.

Some people are into that. Like Al Bundy. 



/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

Many bands who were inducted had a definite end. So it makes sense to celebrate their (short) history or whatever.

I get that some of you see it as GN'R ended in 1993. I get that part. But it didn't end. No matter how much you want the opposite to be true.
To suggest to Axl that he should go there to celebrate the band up until 1991 is kinda ridiculous.

Some people are into that. Like Al Bundy. 



/jarmo

Please show nothing but respect for Al Bundy...

It's not about the band ending or not... but the band DID completely change .. the members, the sound, the impact... all of it...

There is nothing to compare it to... but logically... does a Tommy or a Frank or anybody else who only contributed to one record that came out 7 years ago belong in the Hall of Fame?

if you think so.... great i guess.... I don't ... just like i don't think the Metallica bassist or any other new member of any band should get in... they have a 25 year wait period to judge a persons work over time... the new GNR that was created... we cant judge them yet in terms of their legacy...it had only just started when the "GNR" induction was taking place

Axl... its his deal .. he has the right to feel any way he wants...

[jarmo]

Great, so you don't agree with the weird decisions the RNRHOF has made. 




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I get the feeling that the overwhelming reason for pushback on that is having to concede the post 1994 guys don't match-up on any level.  Personally, I don't see how that's a diss.  Its a fact, but not an insult.

I think it's insulting to Axl.

I disagree.  I don't think insults factor into this at all.

However, if you want to go down that road, I think a better case is made that its an insult to the guys that did the work being honored to have other guys stand up there with them who did not contribute anything to the reason they are there that night.

But obviously you have to be able to see that it's insulting to Axl for them to disregard anything relating to the spent 15+ years of his life that he kept going between the old band breaking up and the induction. Even if you're one of those fans who don't think the band is GN'R and you only love anything that happened before member X left the band. Even if those are your feelings about GN'R, surely you'll be able to see how it's disrespectful to act like those 15+ years never happened and they don't matter at all.

I think this argument only works with next to no context.  But once context is introduced, it rather falls apart.

The knee jerk is to say that 15 years, why, that's half of the band's career!  Yeah...in calendar days maybe.  But the past 15 years have netted you 15 songs. 

If over those past 15 years, the new band put out 3-4 albums, yes, I do think you'd have to put them all in.  Even if nothing the new band did was ever any sort of hit.  If you wound up with 3 albums of original material, an EP and a cover album from the old band...and 3 albums from the new band, you couldn't ignore that.

But that didn't happen.  The numbers are not on your side.  And numbers would have been your only saving grace, because measuring impact is a total losing cause.

[D-GenerationX]

The same argument could be made nobody new Matt. Gilby or dizzy right?

Pre-UYI (or in Gilby's case, UYI videos and tour), no.

But I wouldn't include Gilby anyway.  Matt and Dizzy I would, because they played on a large chuck of the music that got them there. 

Fact ia the hall of fame acted loke guns just stopped in 1994 and thats not right.   

To us, maybe. 

And really, not even all of us.  Only to those of us that insist to the point of threatening to cut a motherfucker that this has been all on continuous operation.

The general public obviously doesn't see it that way.  Not even all GNR fans see it that way.  Hell, even those of us still sticking with it all this time don't all think that.

You are talking about a niche of a niche of a niche at that point.

[JAEBALL]

Great, so you don't agree with the weird decisions the RNRHOF has made. 




/jarmo

But I do agree about who they inducted for GNR 

[D-GenerationX]

But the argument that Tommy deserves induction in to it under the GNR name because he has been on board for 17 years.... with all due respect...what are you guys smoking? The guy doesn't even fucking like the music that the band was inducted for creating !!!!

That was an extremely damning comment that does cast something of a shadow over all of this.  I still can't believe he said that publically.

Forget people from other bands... we are just debating the GNR aspect of it.

That's misdirection as a coping mechanism.

Face it, if the case for the new guys was strong enough on its own merit, are we talking about other bands?  Of course not.

But since that case is weak as shit, we then have to look elsewhere.  We attack this just confounding process and use other examples.  How could <insert player here> go in with <insert band here> but not <insert other player here>?  Its madness!!  

Does any of this have to do with the current GNR line-up's impact on their legacy?  Well...no.  But if we can start talking about other bands, we change the subject and hopefully that point gets lost.

[D-GenerationX]

With some bands they let guys who aren't all that high on the importance list get inducted. Or they let ex members perform with current members.

That tends to fall on the band themselves.

The other surviving members of CCR were banned from the stage on Fogerty's say so, not the Hall. 

Same think with Blondie, who didn't want certain people up there.  That was their call.

[D-GenerationX]

Great, so you don't agree with the weird decisions the RNRHOF has made. 

But I do agree about who they inducted for GNR 

Hahahahaha

Yep.

[JAEBALL]

But the argument that Tommy deserves induction in to it under the GNR name because he has been on board for 17 years.... with all due respect...what are you guys smoking? The guy doesn't even fucking like the music that the band was inducted for creating !!!!

That was an extremely damning comment that does cast something of a shadow over all of this.  I still can't believe he said that publically.

Forget people from other bands... we are just debating the GNR aspect of it.

That's misdirection as a coping mechanism.

Face it, if the case for the new guys was strong enough on its own merit, are we talking about other bands?  Of course not.

But since that case is weak as shit, we then have to look elsewhere.  We attack this just confounding process and use other examples.  How could <insert player here> go in with <insert band here> but not <insert other player here>?  Its madness!!  

Does any of this have to do with the current GNR line-up's impact on their legacy?  Well...no.  But if we can start talking about other bands, we change the subject and hopefully that point gets lost.

More disturbing to me is people don't seem to care that he said that.... I'll never understand that... I dont care how much he may like Axl personally and how loyal he may be to him... the fact that he said that about GNR music...

Without trying to take shots at people who disagree with me on this... I do think ur right....

Well just because the Hall let those undeserving guys get in... our undeserving guys should get in too !!!!

[D-GenerationX]

More disturbing to me is people don't seem to care that he said that.... I'll never understand that... I dont care how much he may like Axl personally and how loyal he may be to him... the fact that he said that about GNR music...

Yeah, we just gloss over that.

Yet they can produce something Axl said back in 2002 on a moment's notice if they think it'll show you and show you good.  So, its not like the search feature is broken.

I don't happen to think that all these guys are just in this for the paycheck.  But a comment like that doesn't help that argument.