GNR albums and Warrant

[GypsySoul]

I make no illusions that this is not my type of place. I absolutely loath censorship and have a rather ironic 'British' sense of humour which, you would label, 'overtly negative' no doubt, and see as a sign of some moral or professional weakness on my part, but I would label as simply, 'pulling the piss'. To summarize: I am not a regular poster here so you do not have to worry, Sesame Street is saved. We all live in a land of daisies and violets and overwhelming positivity, in which no negativity may dwell. At the end of the day, if all the type of posting you desire is this,

''That was a good gig''

''That was certainly a good gig''

''Isn't Axl good''

''He is wonderful'.

''Cannot wait for the next bunch of Vegas gigs''

''Rad dude. Rawk on for the next bunch of Vegas gigs''

(repeated between two-three people)

then good luck with that. We obviously have completely different concepts of what it is to be a 'fan' but I am sure, these type of discussions will continue to provide you with a source of amusement, well into the future.

Now, back to the real world.

So you can dish it out but you can't take it?

I mean, grow a backbone.

Again, follow your own advice.

[mortismurphy]

I make no illusions that this is not my type of place. I absolutely loath censorship and have a rather ironic 'British' sense of humour which, you would label, 'overtly negative' no doubt, and see as a sign of some moral or professional weakness on my part, but I would label as simply, 'pulling the piss'. To summarize: I am not a regular poster here so you do not have to worry, Sesame Street is saved. We all live in a land of daisies and violets and overwhelming positivity, in which no negativity may dwell. At the end of the day, if all the type of posting you desire is this,

''That was a good gig''

''That was certainly a good gig''

''Isn't Axl good''

''He is wonderful'.

''Cannot wait for the next bunch of Vegas gigs''

''Rad dude. Rawk on for the next bunch of Vegas gigs''

(repeated between two-three people)

then good luck with that. We obviously have completely different concepts of what it is to be a 'fan' but I am sure, these type of discussions will continue to provide you with a source of amusement, well into the future.

Now, back to the real world.

So you can dish it out but you can't take it?

I mean, grow a backbone.

Again, follow your own advice.

Pardon? I will continue debating as long as you want (I am ill in bed by the way, hence the fact that I have a lot of free time).

Well firstly Gypsy you claimed that I,

just keep repeating the same negative/tired/boring/tedious argument over and over

Considering the fact that I only started re-posting, 27th August 2014, I do not believe I have posted quantifiably sufficient enough posts for one to judge whether they are, 'tired/boring/tedious'. For someone to have become, 'tired/boring/tedious' you presumably require enough posts, over a certain period of time, for them to become so. To be 'tired' of something, one inherently requires, continuous exposure to that item that they are, tired of. I have not provided that. I think I must have posted about fifteen or so times, and each post has been sufficiently varied enough to not be considered, 'tired/boring/tedious'. You are basically judging me without any sort of knowledge of me, because I, A/ admit negativity in forum discussions (and see nothing bad in that!),  and, B/ hate censorship.

It rather sums up, HTGTH!

[GypsySoul]

Pardon? I will continue debating as long as you want (I am ill in bed by the way, hence the fact that I have a lot of free time).

First off, I'm sorry you're ill and hope you're feeling better soon.
Second, I hope we can have constructive debates about whatever GNR is doing for a very long time to come.
 

Well firstly Gypsy you claimed that I,

just keep repeating the same negative/tired/boring/tedious argument over and over

Considering the fact that I only started re-posting, 27th August 2014, I do not believe I have posted quantifiably sufficient enough posts for one to judge whether they are, 'tired/boring/tedious'. For someone to have become, 'tired/boring/tedious' you presumably require enough posts, over a certain period of time, for them to become so. To be 'tired' of something, one inherently requires, continuous exposure to that item that they are tired of. I have not provided that. I think I must have posted about fifteen or so times, and each post has been sufficiently varied enough to not be considered, 'tired/boring/tedious'. You are basically judging me without any sort of knowledge of me, because I, A/ admit negativity in forum discussions (and see nothing bad in that!), and, B/ hate censorship.

It rather sums up, HTGTH!

My mistake.
A bit of criticism never hurt anyone when you're British and you absolutely loath censorship because you're pulling the piss here at Sesame Street. 



What do you say we all get back to talking about GNR?

I tried before to get opinions on this...

Sort of on the topic of does GNR just consider themselves a touring band:   Dj's solos, specifically Ballad of Death... was that written just for GNR shows (as opposed to Ron or Tommy's solos which appear on their individual solo albums)?  Watching the evolution of that song being played live, other than Axl and Chris, the contributions to that song by the other guys has grown into an epic performance.  I have no clue how the process works but wouldn't this be concrete evidence that GNR are actively writing songs together?

Also, if lyrics are added for Axl to sing and some synth for Chris to play, should GNR add BOD to CD II along with the re-recorded "new" songs from the previous line-ups?  Or should BOD be saved for CD III that would contain ONLY material written by the current line-up?

[D-GenerationX]

"But that is not a rebuttal to someone that produces a clip from that show where Vince sounds spotty.  Did I notice it at the time?  Hell no.  "

But that right there is my point.  Isn't the purpose of the concert to deliver that good time and not produce youtube clips to be scrutinized.  People seem to forget that during their critiques sometimes.  The performance is meant for the audience, not the folks at home or on the net.

But when the clip is played for you, and you are asked about the quality of the singer's perfromance, the answer is never ever, ever, "all I know is that people around me had fun."

Know who says that?  People who know god damn well the clip they are being played doesn't sound good, but feel is "disloyal" to say so.  I'm not here for that.

I saw the Crue 15 years ago.  Vince was missing words and out of puff, THEN.  I knew going to see him last week that situation had likely not improved.  I have since looked up clips from the show, and I am correct.

Great time at the show?  Yep.  A solid recording I think would make a good addition to my iPod?  No.

That's where I'm coming from.

[D-GenerationX]

Do you mean "grow a backbone" like don't kowtow down to a few who are in the minority thinking that someone should change the way they've been doing something successfully for the past 18 years? 

You would argue this has been a successfully run operation, lo these past 18 years?

[mortismurphy]

Successful exodus perhaps.

[LongGoneDay]

I think the never ending debate here stems from two completely different trains of thought.
Two sides that have no desire to budge. One side has been described as negative by most, realistic, objective by some.
The other as positive by most, delusional by some.

I can understand to an extent where both sides are coming from.
Myself, I love the GN?R I grew up with. Tough for me to find many negative things to say about the ?87-?93 era.
Since then there have been some amazing highs, some cool moments, and some incredible lows. Not necessarily in that order.
Hearing Axl?s voice again for the first time in years on The Blues, and again on bootlegs/leaks, and the 2006 shows I attended made for some truly amazing memories.
Other than that, if I?m being nice, I?d sum post ?93 GN?R as a big missed opportunity.
If I?m being blunt, a trainwreck. That?s what my eyes and ears tell me. I?m certainly not happy about it. I?d much rather be jacked up about the future of my favorite band.
Just isn?t the case. Doesn?t change what those first 4 albums mean to me.
My stance now is that I have no expectations. If a new record materializes I will be first in line to buy it, and I am rooting for my all time favorite frontman to regain his form.

If it?s not to be, well, Ive had a long time to come to terms with the fact that that prospect is a distinct possibility.

I?m not trying to push my negative thoughts on anyone else. If other posters here think that Axl sounds great these days, who am I to say they are wrong?
I hear what I hear and don?t need anyone to validate my opinion.
If other posters are still excited, and enthusiastic about GN?Rs future, well that?s great. I don?t quite understand the fascination some people here have with trying to change others minds.
It?s not gonna happen. The fact that we are posting on a GN?R fan forum in 2014 means we are stubborn as fuck.

I don?t take this that seriously. If someone doesn?t agree with me, and most don?t, cool. I?ve got a bit of a twisted sense of humor, so making light of the situation that is current GN?R does appeal to me if it?s in good fun.
That can get out of hand though, and this forum has a more serious feel to it, which it?s cool.
If the majority of posters here choose to focus on the positives and don?t want to beat the negatives to death, it?s not too bizarre of a concept seeing that this is a GN?R fan forum.

[D-GenerationX]

I can understand to an extent where both sides are coming from.
Myself, I love the GN?R I grew up with. Tough for me to find many negative things to say about the ?87-?93 era.
Since then there have been some amazing highs, some cool moments, and some incredible lows. Not necessarily in that order.
Hearing Axl?s voice again for the first time in years on The Blues, and again on bootlegs/leaks, and the 2006 shows I attended made for some truly amazing memories.
Other than that, if I?m being nice, I?d sum post ?93 GN?R as a big missed opportunity.
If I?m being blunt, a trainwreck. That?s what my eyes and ears tell me. I?m certainly not happy about it. I?d much rather be jacked up about the future of my favorite band.
Just isn?t the case. Doesn?t change what those first 4 albums mean to me.
My stance now is that I have no expectations. If a new record materializes I will be first in line to buy it, and I am rooting for my all time favorite frontman to regain his form.

If it?s not to be, well, Ive had a long time to come to terms with the fact that that prospect is a distinct possibility.

Well said, I'm right with you.

'87-'93 was so excellent, its bought goodwill and benefit of the doubt with me for life.  I think it has with just about all of us that were fans in their prime and still keep our ear to the ground to see what's going on with what is likely our favorite singer ever.

I don?t take this that seriously. If someone doesn?t agree with me, and most don?t, cool. I?ve got a bit of a twisted sense of humor, so making light of the situation that is current GN?R does appeal to me if it?s in good fun.
That can get out of hand though, and this forum has a more serious feel to it, which it?s cool.

I could do with a bit more levity, to be honest.  Things are so serious around here a lot of the time.

Its a rock band, not anything serious.  So gallows humor is appropriate sometimes if its helps break the tension, I say.  You have to be able to laugh at life.

I know this place will always be glass WAY half full, and I know that before I log on.  I just think we could have some more fun with it all.

Life is too short to be wound so tight and ready to Thunderdome over every damn thing.

[GypsySoul]

You would argue this has been a successfully run operation, lo these past 18 years?

Most definitely!!!
HTGTH is where most GNR fans come to when they want the real deal.
How many people can say they've spent 18 years doing something they enjoy and doing it on their own terms?
IMO, that's what success is all about.

[D-GenerationX]

You would argue this has been a successfully run operation, lo these past 18 years?

Most definitely!!!
HTGTH is where most GNR fans come to when they want the real deal.
How many people can say they've spent 18 years doing something they enjoy and doing it on their own terms?
IMO, that's what success is all about.

Oh...the site.

I thought you meant the band.  Haha.

[Ginger King]

But I will say this, I don't put too much importance or weight on peoples' opinion on live shows based on concert recordings on Youtube.

A concert is something you enjoy there and then. Not something you sit and analyze frame by frame and compare to how the songs sound on the records.

It's always kinda amusing reading people "review" performances they didn't attend after you went to that show and saw fans leaving with smiles on their faces...



/jarmo

I negatively reviewed some shows I attended years ago and they were deleted.  Still never got an answer as to why they were deleted

Don't you know? It is physically impossible for Axl to have a bad night. You must have been lying then, hence the deletion. Just goes to show how much better Guns N' Roses are, to other bands. I mean, The Stones, Metallica and basically, everybody else who has ever played live (except Guns N' Roses of course), all produce dreadful shows on occasions.

Asking rhetorically, isn't there already an abundance of this kind of negative sarcasm and snark aimed at the band in every other GNR forum and the mainstream media in general?  Aren't there already enough outlets for the criticism, be it objective or malicious?  Why does it need to be brought here, the one single place where GNR fans can come to focus primarily on what's positive about the band? 

I think this site does ?focus primarily on what?s positive about the band.?  The problem is that some people want to focus exclusively on what?s positive?and not even that, but to pretend that negativity doesn?t exist, and anyone who offers something other than sunshine is a misinformed, constantly complaining, Axl-hating troll demanding new music to fill the empty void in their life.

I?d argue that everyone who posts on this site focuses primarily on what?s positive about the band?but that?s not good enough for some.

[Ginger King]

I think the never ending debate here stems from two completely different trains of thought.
Two sides that have no desire to budge. One side has been described as negative by most, realistic, objective by some.
The other as positive by most, delusional by some.

I can understand to an extent where both sides are coming from.
Myself, I love the GN?R I grew up with. Tough for me to find many negative things to say about the ?87-?93 era.
Since then there have been some amazing highs, some cool moments, and some incredible lows. Not necessarily in that order.
Hearing Axl?s voice again for the first time in years on The Blues, and again on bootlegs/leaks, and the 2006 shows I attended made for some truly amazing memories.
Other than that, if I?m being nice, I?d sum post ?93 GN?R as a big missed opportunity.
If I?m being blunt, a trainwreck. That?s what my eyes and ears tell me. I?m certainly not happy about it. I?d much rather be jacked up about the future of my favorite band.
Just isn?t the case. Doesn?t change what those first 4 albums mean to me.
My stance now is that I have no expectations. If a new record materializes I will be first in line to buy it, and I am rooting for my all time favorite frontman to regain his form.

If it?s not to be, well, Ive had a long time to come to terms with the fact that that prospect is a distinct possibility.

I?m not trying to push my negative thoughts on anyone else. If other posters here think that Axl sounds great these days, who am I to say they are wrong?
I hear what I hear and don?t need anyone to validate my opinion.
If other posters are still excited, and enthusiastic about GN?Rs future, well that?s great. I don?t quite understand the fascination some people here have with trying to change others minds.
It?s not gonna happen. The fact that we are posting on a GN?R fan forum in 2014 means we are stubborn as fuck.

I don?t take this that seriously. If someone doesn?t agree with me, and most don?t, cool. I?ve got a bit of a twisted sense of humor, so making light of the situation that is current GN?R does appeal to me if it?s in good fun.
That can get out of hand though, and this forum has a more serious feel to it, which it?s cool.
If the majority of posters here choose to focus on the positives and don?t want to beat the negatives to death, it?s not too bizarre of a concept seeing that this is a GN?R fan forum.

No, but it?s bizarre when the majority of posters only want people to talk about the positives, and act like everything is on the up and up at all times, and that nothing negative has ever happened to the band. 

There are people here that act like Ron?s current situation is no big deal (the band is just on hiatus, nothing to see here).  Clearly, some behind the scenes shit is going on.  His status is, at best, in limbo.  You can acknowledge that and still be an A+, super-duper fan.

[Ja5oN]

"There are people here that act like Ron?s current situation is no big deal"....

BECAUSE....no one on here KNOWS the current situation.  Poor guy uses the wrong tense in a sentence and everyone jumps on it.

Some people would rather just chill, enjoy what we have and deal with things as they become fact and NOT internet fiction.

[Ginger King]

"There are people here that act like Ron?s current situation is no big deal"....

BECAUSE....no one on here KNOWS the current situation.  Poor guy uses the wrong tense in a sentence and everyone jumps on it.

Some people would rather just chill, enjoy what we have and deal with things as they become fact and NOT internet fiction.

How do you know he used the wrong tense?  Also, pretty sure there are more signs than that which point to something is wrong (his tweets, interviews, etc.). 

Waiting until a final resolution (i.e. they go on tour and he's not there, or there is an official announcement) kind of defeats the purpose of the forum...and stifles any real conversation on the issue.

[D-GenerationX]

"There are people here that act like Ron?s current situation is no big deal"....

BECAUSE....no one on here KNOWS the current situation.  Poor guy uses the wrong tense in a sentence and everyone jumps on it.

Some people would rather just chill, enjoy what we have and deal with things as they become fact and NOT internet fiction.

But why is that your job?  I think that's the disconnect here.

A guitarist potentially leaving your band is a big deal.  Why is talking about it filed under treason & sedition?

Who is affected by this all this supposed reckless and dangerous speculation?  Does any outside GNR fandom give a flying fuck about this story?  Hell, I'd parse it down even further and say only the online contingent of GNR fandom cares about this story.

The reason its brought up at places like this is because we are, quite literally, the only group of people on the planet who care about this.  So we kick it around.  And speculation about the fate of a guitarist in a rock band ain't exactly the Kennedy assassination.  No one is harmed if some of the speculation turns out wrong.

It's just something to talk about to pass the time.

[GeorgeSteele]

Asking rhetorically, isn't there already an abundance of this kind of negative sarcasm and snark aimed at the band in every other GNR forum and the mainstream media in general?  Aren't there already enough outlets for the criticism, be it objective or malicious?  Why does it need to be brought here, the one single place where GNR fans can come to focus primarily on what's positive about the band? 

I think this site does ?focus primarily on what?s positive about the band.?  The problem is that some people want to focus exclusively on what?s positive?and not even that, but to pretend that negativity doesn?t exist, and anyone who offers something other than sunshine is a misinformed, constantly complaining, Axl-hating troll demanding new music to fill the empty void in their life.

I?d argue that everyone who posts on this site focuses primarily on what?s positive about the band?but that?s not good enough for some.

Well, I don't disagree with the preference for 'primarily' instead of 'exclusively' (which is why I used that word), but it takes effort to keep things that way.  The Internet is a toilet, you know that, so negativity will always drown out the good vibes if left unchecked.  All the other forums are proof of that.  
  

[GeorgeSteele]

You would argue this has been a successfully run operation, lo these past 18 years?

Most definitely!!!
HTGTH is where most GNR fans come to when they want the real deal.
How many people can say they've spent 18 years doing something they enjoy and doing it on their own terms?
IMO, that's what success is all about.

Oh...the site.

I thought you meant the band.  Haha.

As far as the band, maybe the most difficult management aspect is touring, especially when traveling internationally.  That part has gone relatively well since 2006, no?

[D-GenerationX]

Well, I don't disagree with the preference for 'primarily' instead of 'exclusively' (which is why I used that word), but it takes effort to keep things that way.  The Internet is a toilet, you know that, so negativity will always drown out the good vibes if left unchecked.  All the other forums are proof of that.  

But what are the "good vibes" of the Ron situation though?

By all appearances, seems most of the vibes are bad ones.  So we just ignore them?

[D-GenerationX]

As far as the band, maybe the most difficult management aspect is touring, especially when traveling internationally.  That part has gone relatively well since 2006, no?

Comparatively speaking, absolutely.

But taking the past 15 years of this operation, even including better functioning touring, I don't think any other bands are going to be Xeroxing this one's overall business plan.

[GeorgeSteele]

Well, I don't disagree with the preference for 'primarily' instead of 'exclusively' (which is why I used that word), but it takes effort to keep things that way.  The Internet is a toilet, you know that, so negativity will always drown out the good vibes if left unchecked.  All the other forums are proof of that.  

But what are the "good vibes" of the Ron situation though?

By all appearances, seems most of the vibes are bad ones.  So we just ignore them?

I think Ron is an incredible guitarist, would suck if he left, but still no confirmation of that, so that's good.  

Also, I've always liked how Ron is a bit of a wildcard.  The fact that he is the way he is, but hasn't been kicked to the curb is evidence of how much he's valued by the band for his abilities.  

That said, the band has survived the loss of a guitarist who was a main songwriter, a superstar guitarist who many believe defined their sound, and a couple more good ones after that.  As great as Ron is, if they can survive losing those guys, they would find a way to manage without him too.