GNR albums and Warrant

[GypsySoul]

Let's say the reviews are different then. Reviewer One gives the band an excellent review, an A+. Reviewer One's previous 4 reviews also consisted of, A+, A+, A+, A+. Reviewer Two givers the band, a mediocre C. Two's previous four reviews consisted of, B, A+, D, A. There is simply no way, One can be considered a credible reviewer as he obviously has been compromised somehow, whether that be through fandom, hero worship, personal access (to the band). Two however seems to be merely reacting on a, show by show basis. Two therefore must be the more reliable reviewer. Two also, in my opinion, is the superior fan.

I really dislike the term "superior fan" used to describe either.

I truly understand the point you're trying to make but again my response is going to be that most people reading both sets of reviews will base whom they feel gave the more credible review by what/how they are or are not criticizing.

Using my Bela Legosi voice example:  some "fans" tend to be exceptionally critical because they absolutely HATE some of the inflections or pitch or whatever that Axl uses during his live performances.  They refuse to take into consideration that IT IS A LIVE performance with all the variables going on or that maybe Axl likes singing certain songs live that way or maybe even Axl's just having fun with his voice or whatever. 

If your "fan #2" is known for their hatred of Axl's inflections and that's why they gave that show a 'D' then most of us aren't going to take that reviewer as credible. 

I do not totally disagree with you about the live spectator being the more credible witness. I would tend to give them the benefit of the doubt myself. I merely think that, for although videos of various descriptions may have their limitations, nobody could call them biased. The same, can occasionally be applied to fans. The thing is, you have to judge the medium just as much as the item the medium contains. What if you capture an 'excellent' GN'R performance, and a 'terrible' GN'R performance, on the exact same phone from, roughly, the same location in a crowd. If the 'terrible' show is 'untrustworthy' because it was recorded on a phone, then can we trust the apparent 'excellence' of the first show, also recorded on a phone? Why do the years, 2006-07, or even 2010, just happen to throw forth so many excellent phone recorded Youtube clips (of Guns N' Roses) whereas, the years 2012-14 have not been, so fortunate (even considering the Vegas DVD)? Has phone technology somehow deteriorated, since 2006?

Go watch any of the 2014 Vegas residency youtubes.



P.S.  For the record: 
A.  I absolutely love Axl's Bela Lugosi voice and how he does that both on the record and in live performances.
B.  I absolutely love the 2012 Vegas DVD but would have preferred if the director kept the camera on Axl more!!!  Axl moves around the stage so much that all the other guys would've gotten enough screen time with that and their solos!!!  (See!!!  Even a "blind worship" fan like me can find fault.) 


Anyways ....
Sort of on the topic of does GNR just consider themselves a touring band:  Dj's solos, specifically Ballad of Death... was that written just for GNR shows (as opposed to Ron or Tommy's solos which appear on their individual solo albums)?  Watching the evolution of that song being played live, other than Axl and Chris, the contributions to that song by the other guys has grown into an epic performance.  I have no clue how the process works but wouldn't this be concrete evidence that GNR are actively writing songs together?

[mortismurphy]

Are you not allowing room for, Axl having a 'bad day at the office'. Has it got to come down to, 'inflections' or 'pitch'. You cannot seem to admit that Axl can have an awful gig (even he probably admits this in his, more introspective moments). The Stones have had whole decades where they have stunk to high heaven, and no Stones fan is going to challenge this conclusion. Old GN'R had some awful gigs and admitted as such; the Texas Jam thing that Slash often mentions, after which, people were sending the band their Appetite cassettes, such was its awfulness.

[GypsySoul]

Are you not allowing room for, Axl having a 'bad day at the office'. Has it got to come down to, 'inflections' or 'pitch'. You cannot seem to admit that Axl can have an awful gig (even he probably admits this in his, more introspective moments).

Absolutely not.  As I said, it's a live performance and there are many variables to take into consideration... including Axl and/or the band having bad nights. 

My example was to show how some fans, as you just did, will ONLY focus on possible negatives.  Using your reply, you took ONE thing I said and turned it into that I think Axl could never do wrong.  Why should anyone take anything you say as anything other than you dismissing any possible positive scenarios and you looking ONLY for negative things about the band?

[mortismurphy]

See, where we differ is, I feel the people who are negative sort of, have a point. There are actual reasons for this, i.e. it is not just vacuous trolling.

[GypsySoul]

See, where we differ is, I feel the people who are negative sort of, have a point. There are actual reasons for this, i.e. it is not just vacuous trolling.

We definitely disagree.  I feel some people vacuously troll to specifically focus on negatives.

[mortismurphy]

Do you believe this is an unique phenomenon to Guns N' Roses? If yes, then why?

[GypsySoul]

Do you believe this is an unique phenomenon to Guns N' Roses? If yes, then why?

Trolling?  No.  I do NOT believe trolling is a unique phenomenon to GNR.
GNR is the only band I "follow" on the internet so I don't really know what is or isn't said on other band's forums but I know from following other people/topics that trolling is definitely NOT unique to GNR.   

I do however believe that some 'fans' will specifically troll HTGTH in an attempt to turn focus on any or all GNR discussions into a negative direction or to deliberately break the site rules so they can go to other GNR forums to whine about how they were wronged by the admin/mods here.

[GNR2014]

The elephant in the room here is:
one album of original material in 23 years(!!),
touring lineup of players not personally responsible for live material, and
rapidly deteriorating abilities of fabled frontman.

this really has nothing to do with youtube, cell phone recordings screen resolution, or connection speed

[GypsySoul]

The elephant in the room here is:
one album of original material in 23 years(!!),
touring lineup of players not personally responsible for live material, and
rapidly deteriorating abilities of fabled frontman.

this really has nothing to do with youtube, cell phone recordings screen resolution, or connection speed

And yet you're still here. 

[Ginger King]

The elephant in the room here is:
one album of original material in 23 years(!!),
touring lineup of players not personally responsible for live material, and
rapidly deteriorating abilities of fabled frontman.

this really has nothing to do with youtube, cell phone recordings screen resolution, or connection speed

And yet you're still here. 

We're still here because GnR is still our favorite band...and that doesn't change (or at least not easily).  As long as Axl is still around, I'll always be interested in what he does, how he sounds, etc.  From hearing him this year, and reading his interview, it seems there's still gas in the tank, which is encouraging.  However, that's not to deny that things aren't always awesome, or that at times he sounds bad/the band sounds bad (e.g. DJ's patience interpretation).

You don't just have to be a devout believer to be here...how boring would that be?

[Ginger King]

Go watch any of the 2014 Vegas residency youtubes.



P.S.  For the record: 
A.  I absolutely love Axl's Bela Lugosi voice and how he does that both on the record and in live performances.
B.  I absolutely love the 2012 Vegas DVD but would have preferred if the director kept the camera on Axl more!!!  Axl moves around the stage so much that all the other guys would've gotten enough screen time with that and their solos!!!  (See!!!  Even a "blind worship" fan like me can find fault.) 


Anyways ....
Sort of on the topic of does GNR just consider themselves a touring band:  Dj's solos, specifically Ballad of Death... was that written just for GNR shows (as opposed to Ron or Tommy's solos which appear on their individual solo albums)?  Watching the evolution of that song being played live, other than Axl and Chris, the contributions to that song by the other guys has grown into an epic performance.  I have no clue how the process works but wouldn't this be concrete evidence that GNR are actively writing songs together?

Wait...your "fault" is that Axl isn't on camera enough?  Sorry, that doesn't count. 

And I really like BOD, IMO the best thing DJ has played. 

[mortismurphy]

Do you believe this is an unique phenomenon to Guns N' Roses? If yes, then why?

Trolling?  No.  I do NOT believe trolling is a unique phenomenon to GNR.
GNR is the only band I "follow" on the internet so I don't really know what is or isn't said on other band's forums but I know from following other people/topics that trolling is definitely NOT unique to GNR.   

I do however believe that some 'fans' will specifically troll HTGTH in an attempt to turn focus on any or all GNR discussions into a negative direction or to deliberately break the site rules so they can go to other GNR forums to whine about how they were wronged by the admin/mods here.

Other band's forums are different because they have albums and stuff to talk about.

Returning to the object of discussion, I do not see anyone here who could be labelled a troll; I am not disputing the fact that 'trolls' exist, merely that they are, not present here. If you go on the other Guns boards, you will swiftly come in contact with trolls - trust me. I do think there are a significant amount of Guns N' Roses fans however who are not, 'trolls', but are frustrated and vocal in their frustrations. These fans do have a point in my opinion.

[Ginger King]

Do you believe this is an unique phenomenon to Guns N' Roses? If yes, then why?

Trolling?  No.  I do NOT believe trolling is a unique phenomenon to GNR.
GNR is the only band I "follow" on the internet so I don't really know what is or isn't said on other band's forums but I know from following other people/topics that trolling is definitely NOT unique to GNR.   

I do however believe that some 'fans' will specifically troll HTGTH in an attempt to turn focus on any or all GNR discussions into a negative direction or to deliberately break the site rules so they can go to other GNR forums to whine about how they were wronged by the admin/mods here.

Other band's forums are different because they have albums and stuff to talk about.

Returning to the object of discussion, I do not see anyone here who could be labelled a troll; I am not disputing the fact that 'trolls' exist, merely that they are, not present here. If you go on the other Guns boards, you will swiftly come in contact with trolls - trust me. I do think there are a significant amount of Guns N' Roses fans however who are not, 'trolls', but are frustrated and vocal in their frustrations. These fans do have a point in my opinion.

Agree.  There's a rush here to lump anyone that utters an ounce of criticism as a perpetually negative, constantly complaining troll.  It's very easy to distinguish between the actual trolls, and those who support the band but have independent opinions that may at times (gasp) be critical.

[EmilyGNR]

The elephant in the room here is:
one album of original material in 23 years(!!),
touring lineup of players not personally responsible for live material, and
rapidly deteriorating abilities of fabled frontman.

this really has nothing to do with youtube, cell phone recordings screen resolution, or connection speed

And yet you're still here. 

Some of these people have made a quantum leap from fan to fault-finder  

[Ginger King]

Do you believe this is an unique phenomenon to Guns N' Roses? If yes, then why?

I do however believe that some 'fans' will specifically troll HTGTH in an attempt to turn focus on any or all GNR discussions into a negative direction or to deliberately break the site rules so they can go to other GNR forums to whine about how they were wronged by the admin/mods here.

Is this really a thing, or another way to lump all of us together as one hating, troll-mongering group?  I find it pretty far-fetched that people would come here to "stir up trouble" just so they can go to another forum and (brag?) talk about how they were scolded here.  If that really happens, pardon my ignorance...and people have way too much time on their hands.

[GypsySoul]

We're still here because GnR is still our favorite band...and that doesn't change (or at least not easily).  As long as Axl is still around, I'll always be interested in what he does, how he sounds, etc.  From hearing him this year, and reading his interview, it seems there's still gas in the tank, which is encouraging.  However, that's not to deny that things aren't always awesome, or that at times he sounds bad/the band sounds bad (e.g. DJ's patience interpretation).

You don't just have to be a devout believer to be here...how boring would that be?

I'm not saying we all need to be 'devout believers' but IMO some of you have a very masochistic view of your FAV band.


Concert promoter trying to choose which band should headline a major music festival decides to put it out there for the fans to vote.

Concert promoter:  Tell us who is your FAV band and why.
GNR2014:  Guns N' Roses!!! 
..... one album of original material in 23 years(!!),
..... touring lineup of players not personally responsible for live material, and
..... rapidly deteriorating abilities of fabled frontman.

Concert promoter:  Say what??   

[Ja5oN]

Why is it that everyone who shits on this lineup has not attended the 2014 residency shows?  If there is someone who attended those shows and has harsh criticism....then I would like to hear from them.  I LOVED the 2014 shows....even more that the DVD (2012) shows.  All too often I hear WAAAYYYYY too much whinning is by people who havent even seen this band or talked to them.

These residencies are a fans dream come true.  Fuck get off your asses and go.  The band gives you unprecedented access.  I've stood in line for coffee with Frank, talked to Ron in the Casino, met Dizzy at the circle bar, etc.

 

[Ginger King]

Why is it that everyone who shits on this lineup has not attended the 2014 residency shows?  If there is someone who attended those shows and has harsh criticism....then I would like to hear from them.  I LOVED the 2014 shows....even more that the DVD (2012) shows.  All too often I hear WAAAYYYYY too much whinning is by people who havent even seen this band or talked to them.

These residencies are a fans dream come true.  Fuck get off your asses and go.  The band gives you unprecedented access.  I've stood in line for coffee with Frank, talked to Ron in the Casino, met Dizzy at the circle bar, etc.

 

Who's shitting on the Vegas shows?  I don't think anyone (at least anyone here) was complaining about the latest residency.  I think they sounded great, and you can definitely hear the improvement form the SA tour. 

I think what we're shitting on (really just debating) is what comes next/what's the status of the band?  Some here are of the opinion that everything's fine, the band is just on hiatus, nothing to see here, everything is fine (actually, awesome, because things are always awesome)...others (myself included) think that things aren't exactly squeaky clean, that Ron's status is up in the air, and the the current lineup acts more as a touring act than a band.

And yes, I have seen the current lineup multiple times (was not able to get to Vegas this year).  Why do you have to be at the shows to have an opinion?  Are people's opinions on the band less valid, or if they're not spending money on tickets they shouldn't get to comment?  I always confused by that one.

[Ja5oN]

"rapidly deteriorating abilities of fabled frontman" = shitting

And yes someone who went to the latest Vegas residency has a more valid opinion on the current status of the band than someone who saw the concerts in 2006 (or whenever in the past).  The Vegas shows is the most recent information on how GNR is currently "working".  If I asked about buying your car, I would want to test drive it today versus 6 years ago.  And showing me pictures of it 6 years ago or video of it running then isn't going to change my mind about test driving it today before purchase.

[mortismurphy]

"rapidly deteriorating abilities of fabled frontman" = shitting

And yes someone who went to the latest Vegas residency has a more valid opinion on the current status of the band than someone who saw the concerts in 2006 (or whenever in the past).  The Vegas shows is the most recent information on how GNR is currently "working".  If I asked about buying your car, I would want to test drive it today versus 6 years ago.  And showing me pictures of it 6 years ago or video of it running then isn't going to change my mind about test driving it today before purchase.

I do not agree.