Goodbye Ron (???)

[D-GenerationX]

I think Ron wanted them to operate in a very specific way, creatively, and wanted a bigger part in the creative process at large (which goes part and parcel with doing it "his way").  His comments seem to indicate that.

But...GnR largely hasn't operated the way RON seems to have wanted them to work (together, locked in a studio) since AFD.  And I think OTHER members of the band were comfortable with the status quo.

I know this is the popular narrative lately : "Ron wanted to run the show!"  "Ron thinks its his band!"  "Ron insisted on mandatory studio time!"

But are things that extreme?  Or was he just dumbfounded that entire years go by with no progress and not the least bit of a sense of urgency?

Now, touching on your earlier point, yes, you could also say that none of this was news when he joined.  But isn't there some space between knowing things move slowly and realizing that they don't move at all?

[JAEBALL]

I think Ron wanted them to operate in a very specific way, creatively, and wanted a bigger part in the creative process at large (which goes part and parcel with doing it "his way").  His comments seem to indicate that.

But...GnR largely hasn't operated the way RON seems to have wanted them to work (together, locked in a studio) since AFD.  And I think OTHER members of the band were comfortable with the status quo.

I know this is the popular narrative lately : "Ron wanted to run the show!"  "Ron thinks its his band!"  "Ron insisted on mandatory studio time!"

But are things that extreme?  Or was he just dumbfounded that entire years go by with no progress and not the least bit of a sense of urgency?

Now, touching on your earlier point, yes, you could also say that none of this was news when he joined.  But isn't there some space between knowing things move slowly and realizing that they don't move at all?

I agree.. I don't think he thought his opinions on how the band should work should take in to affect... I think he just got tired of it not changing ever combined with how he FELT his involvement held him back from doing other things.

[D-GenerationX]

I tend to not believe that so long as an album came out sometime in the past 7 years, and there were tangible signs of progress, he's still quit over things not being done "his way".

[jarmo]

I tend to not believe that so long as an album came out sometime in the past 7 years, and there were tangible signs of progress, he's still quit over things not being done "his way".

If that had happened, he still could've been going on about how the band hadn't sat together to write a song....




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I tend to not believe that so long as an album came out sometime in the past 7 years, and there were tangible signs of progress, he's still quit over things not being done "his way".

If that had happened, he still could've been going on about how the band hadn't sat together to write a song....

Maybe.

But at that point, he's talking about a next album he would be more involved in helping create.  He can't even get to that point though.

Ron's problem is that this band is five years away from being five years away.

[jarmo]

I think the problem was making his complaints in public.
Obviously it didn't seem to help. Didn't make him happier.

There's no guarantees that even if he was in the band for 20 years he'd have writing credits. We don't know.



/jarmo

[pilferk]

I know this is the popular narrative lately : "Ron wanted to run the show!"  "Ron thinks its his band!"  "Ron insisted on mandatory studio time!"

I think it's the popular fan fiction because it jives with what he's actually said, in interviews.  He's expressed strong opinions about how the band worked, how he thinks it should of worked, and his frustration with the juxtaposition.

And now he's weighed in, in that translated interview, and said "he talked to other band mates" about those frustrations.  IDK how else to take that, other than "he wanted some say in how the band was being run".

I mean, I'm perfectly willing to allow that's NOT the case...this is all a big game of "what if", but it's what makes logical sense to me.

But are things that extreme?  Or was he just dumbfounded that entire years go by with no progress and not the least bit of a sense of urgency?

He came in, you assume, knowing the deal.  If he didn't, that's on him for accepting a gig and not asking the right questions. Google is your friend.

He didn't like the way things were working, so he vented/suggested changes/talked to people.

When things didn't change, he took his ball and went home.

I don't know if I'd call that "extreme", but I'm not sure how we get from point a to point b, using RON'S own words, otherwise.

Again, that's my fan fiction.....I'd entertain another set that hit the high lights

Now, touching on your earlier point, yes, you could also say that none of this was news when he joined.  But isn't there some space between knowing things move slowly and realizing that they don't move at all?

I think we're back to who's writing the fan fiction influence the direction of that fiction.

First up, if Ron didn't realize that there was a chance for an extended period of time between album releases, that things moved "slow" (compared to how he might want them to move), and that there were fits and starts to the activity level of the band....he's either been living in a monestary or he didn't Google "Guns n Roses" before signing his contract.

And heres the thing: Ron left pretty much right after, or right as, we were seeing potential signs of "progress" on the album.  That's what WE were seeing.  If HE wasn't seeing it, but Chris, DJ, Axl, and Dizzy WERE seeing it (and maybe Tommy...I can't remember his comments clearly enough to say)....you have to wonder why that is.

He was either being shut out...and you have to wonder why....or he was aware of the progress potentially being made and he was unhappy that the progress was being made counter to his suggestions.  And I don't mean he was bitter that it was "working".  More that he didn't like the way it WAS working, and since it was, there was no need to move in his suggested direction, thus he decided he'd be happier on the outside, looking in.

And all that would be well and good.  If he wants to take his ball and go home...go.  The issue is the grousing about it, and airing the dirty laundry, afterwards.  That's where I assign and extract some bitterness and hostlity to him, in my version of this fan fiction creation/game of what if.

[LongGoneDay]

I don't know for sure, but don't think it's any great mystery.
I think the cat?s out of the bag, and has been for a while.
Musicians with a desire to produce/release new material aren?t long for Guns N? Roses.

Buckethead has a ridiculous amount of records since leaving GN?R.
Izzy, 11.
Slash, 6.
Ron is about to release his 2nd already.

Some are content with the money, touring and getting that creative release through ?side? projects.
Clearly Ron wasn?t.

If he wasn?t tight with the band members, what?s there to hold onto?

[pilferk]

I tend to not believe that so long as an album came out sometime in the past 7 years, and there were tangible signs of progress, he's still quit over things not being done "his way".

He left JUST as we saw sign of potential progress. Progress that could be continuing...fact is, we don't know.

CD was announced in late Sept/early Oct of 2008 and released in November. It's nowhere NEAR too late in this year to rule out a release.

We didn't hear a whole lot of whispers about a release date, mixing work, mastering work, or production....or ANYTHING...prior to that.

I'm just sayin...he up and left as we started to get signs and comments about new music/new album/etc progress.

[pilferk]

I don't know for sure, but don't think it's any great mystery.
I think the cat?s out of the bag, and has been for a while.
Musicians with a desire to produce/release new material aren?t long for Guns N? Roses.

Buckethead has a ridiculous amount of records since leaving GN?R.
Izzy, 11.
Slash, 6.
Ron is about to release his 2nd already.

Some are content with the money, touring and getting that creative release through ?side? projects.
Clearly Ron wasn?t.

If he wasn?t tight with the band members, what?s there to hold onto?

Completely, 100%, plausible.

My problem with that is, then...that's what you say.  "I need to be making music, and releasing music, to be happy and feel productive. I feel I couldn't do that, in the way I wanted, as quickly as I wanted, and with the input I wanted, in that situation".

Instead, he has really painted a picture of himself as someone who walked away feeling bitter and hostile.  He's aired the dirty laundry for no good reason.  His OWN WORDS make it look like it was a bit more than the above.

[D-GenerationX]

If he wasn?t tight with the band members, what?s there to hold onto?

Yeah, this probably plays a bigger role than we realize.

[jarmo]

Musicians with a desire to produce/release new material aren?t long for Guns N? Roses.

Dj has managed to do both, Tommy as well. Richard and Dizzy.....

While Ron as in the band, he managed to release music and produce Poc (anybody remember her?).



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

That disconnect might be why Ron never bonded with the other guys.

Think about it.  If they have all made their peace with the prolonged inactivity and glacier like place things move, would they really want to listen to a guy go on and on about how things could, should, or ever will be any different?

Perhaps a good bit of eye rolling amongst the others when he left the room.

[pilferk]

That disconnect might be why Ron never bonded with the other guys.

Think about it.  If they have all made their peace with the prolonged inactivity and glacier like place things move, would they really want to listen to a guy go on and on about how things could, should, or ever will be any different?

Perhaps a good bit of eye rolling amongst the others when he left the room.

It's like corporate culture....and the new guy who thinks they know better, and wants to rock the boat.

Sometimes, the new guy is a breath of fresh air, and can change the way a company does business. It's a new dawn, it's a new day...

Sometimes, the other guys look at him and say "Kid, we've been doing this for 30 years (jesus christ, it's been 30 fucking years, almost). That stuff you're suggesting? We tried it 28 years ago.  It didn't work. This works for everyone else involved.  Pull with us, or get the fuck off the rope".

It's the way it is.

The thing is...if that new kid goes out looking for another job, and badmouths his employer in every interview, he looks like a dick. Be looks bitter, hostile, and sorta like a know it all.  Whether he WAS one, in the confines of the board room or not...we don't know.  But he sure sets himself up to look like one. And there's a good chance his prospective employers are going to assume he IS one.

[sky dog]

One Man Mutiny by Tommy was written around the time of a little inner band dust up I believe....don't know who it was between or any details but the song is about an incident on the bus between band members. I think....Jarmo?

[D-GenerationX]

Sometimes, the other guys look at him and say "Kid, we've been doing this for 30 years (jesus christ, it's been 30 fucking years, almost). That stuff you're suggesting? We tried it 28 years ago.  It didn't work. This works for everyone else involved.  Pull with us, or get the fuck off the rope".

Yep.

I imagine as with any culture, you give the new guy some leeway to burn off some of that exuberance.

But, as you say, after awhile I think the others expect you to fall in line. 

[jarmo]

One Man Mutiny by Tommy was written around the time of a little inner band dust up I believe....don't know who it was between or any details but the song is about an incident on the bus between band members. I think....Jarmo?

I recorded it with Richard Fortus and Dizzy Reed in Brussels, Belgium. The song kind of came from an incident that we had on our Guns N' Roses tour. We had an inner-bus conflict going and by the time we got off the bus that morning I was like, "Man if you guys are having a mutiny, don't include me just 'cause you've gotta bitch. When I got my issues I'm a one man mutiny!" And it just kind of stuck in my head.

One of our managers, Del James, was laughing at it; he thought it was really funny. I had the words written by the time I got to Brussels. It just seemed like something to do to get some time off, so we got a piano in the Conrad Hotel restaurant and I just set up my portable studio and we did it live. It was fun, and that was the point where I made the record from.

http://www.guitarworld.com/interview-guns-n-roses-bassist-tommy-stinson-talks-new-solo-album-one-man-mutiny

That disconnect might be why Ron never bonded with the other guys.

Think about it.  If they have all made their peace with the prolonged inactivity and glacier like place things move, would they really want to listen to a guy go on and on about how things could, should, or ever will be any different?

Perhaps a good bit of eye rolling amongst the others when he left the room.

I don't think so.
Yeah, if you're nagging about the same thing every day. Then maybe.

Ron is the guy who made a comment about trying to stab people on stage in 2006..... Obviously there's been issues before 2014.



/jarmo

[rebelhipi]

One Man Mutiny by Tommy was written around the time of a little inner band dust up I believe....don't know who it was between or any details but the song is about an incident on the bus between band members. I think....Jarmo?

I recorded it with Richard Fortus and Dizzy Reed in Brussels, Belgium. The song kind of came from an incident that we had on our Guns N' Roses tour. We had an inner-bus conflict going and by the time we got off the bus that morning I was like, "Man if you guys are having a mutiny, don't include me just 'cause you've gotta bitch. When I got my issues I'm a one man mutiny!" And it just kind of stuck in my head.

One of our managers, Del James, was laughing at it; he thought it was really funny. I had the words written by the time I got to Brussels. It just seemed like something to do to get some time off, so we got a piano in the Conrad Hotel restaurant and I just set up my portable studio and we did it live. It was fun, and that was the point where I made the record from.

http://www.guitarworld.com/interview-guns-n-roses-bassist-tommy-stinson-talks-new-solo-album-one-man-mutiny

That disconnect might be why Ron never bonded with the other guys.

Think about it.  If they have all made their peace with the prolonged inactivity and glacier like place things move, would they really want to listen to a guy go on and on about how things could, should, or ever will be any different?

Perhaps a good bit of eye rolling amongst the others when he left the room.

I don't think so.
Yeah, if you're nagging about the same thing every day. Then maybe.

Ron is the guy who made a comment about trying to stab people on stage in 2006..... Obviously there's been issues before 2014.



/jarmo

Apparently he tried to stab three band members

From a 2010 interview
''RT: Exactly, which I tend to do often. Nah man, I don't think we have any nicknames. I started to think of a bunch, like Frank could be Frizzy because he's bald and the FR is in Frank. At one point Axl was calling me Shank.

WI: Really? Where'd that come from?

RT: Because I tried to stab three people on stage at a show in 2006.

WI: How'd that come about?

RT: How do things like that happen? They just happen.''

From a live chat ''"Sebastian tells me the next day, "Dude, I got a text from Axl that said.....Bumble just tried to kill half the band. I finally feel like I'm in a rock band again."

Any other info on that incident?

[Gavgnr]

I remember reading about this. Didn't Ron say the guys were, according to him, giving him (as the new guy) a fair bit of stick and he decided to take action in terms of berating them?

I think he said he saw red, but it quickly blew over.

[eyemojo]

Usually I don't like to weigh in on such matters, but here's 2? for what its worth: I had seen him perform twice with the band, first at a Hammerstein show and the second at MSG. He so brilliantly intricate but my personal opinion is that perhaps they need to find someone who has the training in either jazz or classical who's caught a taste and has been laying low for a while and is open to what Mr. Rose is accomplishing.


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