Goodbye Ron (???)

[mortismurphy]

Some relevant points but can I just add that the Black Ice Tour lasted nearly three years and included three North American legs.

You can. But it's 2015 and Metallica lost money LAST year in the US.

AC/DC and Metallica would both have been on my short list, up until VERY recently, of rock bands that could tour the US "normally" (as in, the way they all used to) and still make money.

All bets are off, and 5 years ago was a LONG time ago, in terms of this discussion.

Well, we will see what happens then.

[pilferk]

Some relevant points but can I just add that the Black Ice Tour lasted nearly three years and included three North American legs.

You can. But it's 2015 and Metallica lost money LAST year in the US.

AC/DC and Metallica would both have been on my short list, up until VERY recently, of rock bands that could tour the US "normally" (as in, the way they all used to) and still make money.

All bets are off, and 5 years ago was a LONG time ago, in terms of this discussion.

Well, we will see what happens then.

We sure will.

But, as currently constructed.....it's another piece of compelling evidence that AC/DC's promoters and advisors are telling them very similar things to what's being discussed here.

[D-GenerationX]

I don't recall making statements about how it's gonna be "structured". I pointed out the faults in your personal opinion and your disregard for facts that go against that opinion.

Motion : DENIED

We pretty clearly have a difference of opinion on all this.

I contend they are playing smaller and smaller places in fewer and fewer places domestically because there is a lack of demand for current day GNR.  That's pretty obviously out the window if the next tour is not in clubs, and is a true nationwide tour.  I'm not going to be able to say I'm right if they wind up on a true nationwide tour in larger venues.

If it does go that way, however (small venues, few places) I am not under any sort of delusion you would ever concede the point.  But it will be funny to see you try and explain it all away.  And I'm sure I could make some hay out of that.  I have a knack. 

Yeah, pointing out to you that there's evidence of there being a demand for GN'R is filler to somebody who wants the opposite to be true.
So much for being interested in discussion. Silly.

When we are talking about their ability to draw as an act, and you try and piggyback onto a festival crowd that only a true simpleton would try and claim are all there to see Guns N' Roses and only Guns N' Roses...that's the act of a desperate man.

Me not drawing further attention to that desperation is actually doing you a favor, sport.  So much for gratitude.

The fact the you didn't go see GN'R play an hour away from where you live is interesting to paint a picture of how people think. This is also "filler" since you don't want to be used as an example of a so called "hardcore fan" who skips their favorite band's show for whatever reason(s).

Probably would have been a different story if that show came after the Vegas ones where he sounded good.

Since at the time those tickets went on sale all I had to go on was the South American shows, where he sound just god damn horrendous, it wasn't such a slam dunk.  I had real concerns at that point in time that I would never go seem them live again if that was the caliber of performance I'd be getting.

Yes, yes, I know you think he sounded just fine.  No need to rehash all that again.  We know where you stand.  Right on the side of stage, with hearts around your head, just like Mickey Mouse when he looks at Minnie.

[TheBaconman]

Thank you. I do like being loved.  And I am a good choice so thanks haha

I will consider that there are more events in U.S. markets that could cause people to spend there money in other areas than in seeing live music/guns n roses.  I would be crazy not to say this. BUT....  The amount of events does not offset the population differnt in the two countries and can not be used as an excuse as to why people in the  United states choose not to see events

It does offset when you consider distribution.

It explains why there is a NEED to prioritize.  The different musical tastes (and preference for other types of live entertainment, like sports) is definitely "on us", as a whole.

If you want to say that, as a whole, the US musical tastes suck....I probably won't disagree.  What sells, and the acts that sell gobs of tickets around the country...not my cup of tea.

Also just because most of the Canadian pollution lives close to its major cities isn't always a plus when it comes to seeing events.  In a lot of parts of Canada unless u live in the downtown areas you are driving to these events.  Because the public fransportaion stinks.  I live about 45 mins away from the downtown area and have to drive to events    Which should be a factor in people staying home and not attending.  But it's not. We still manage to get out.   I wish we had a public fransportaion system like New York or some other U.S. city.  

Yeah, really good public transportation systems aren't as common as you think in the US. New York has a good one, Boston's is OK (when not inundated by 9 feet of snow)..but largely you'll find that the US population is driving into the city to see shows, too.  Some of us driving 2 to 3 hours to get there (me to NYC or Boston).

I'm not sure if the NY area has a good transportation system. It could actually be much BETTER. I live 30 minutes away from NYC and it takes me an hour and half to get back to NJ in the evening.

It can always be better.....   I tell this the girl friend of the weekend all the time

But here, where I am. I cant even take public transit to work...  So no matter how long it may take you, at least you have it

[jarmo]

Motion : DENIED

Who made you the judge? Nothing like being a self appointed judge...  

I contend they are playing smaller and smaller places in fewer and fewer places domestically because there is a lack of demand for current day GNR.  That's pretty obviously out the window if the next tour is not in clubs, and is a true nationwide tour.  I'm not going to be able to say I'm right if they wind up on a true nationwide tour in larger venues.

I explained why it happened in 2013 and 2014. You didn't pay attention to that.
Now, if it happened for those reasons in 2013 and 2014, it's possible it might happen again in the future! Common sense. And it's got nothing to do with you and your opinion!

If it does go that way, however (small venues, few places) I am not under any sort of delusion you would ever concede the point.  But it will be funny to see you try and explain it all away. 

Like I said.... You're funny.
You don't look at anything as an adult. You've made up your mind and refuse to look at it again. So much for open eyes and the other bullshit about free thinking.


GN'R played clubs in 1991. Oh no! It must mean there was no demand a few weeks before the proper tour!

Me not drawing further attention to that desperation is actually doing you a favor, sport.  So much for gratitude.

Stick your so called favors some place else.

The only one you want to do favors for is yourself. You constantly ignore points and try to ridicule them.

We know where you stand.  Right on the side of stage, with hearts around your head, just like Mickey Mouse when he looks at Minnie.

Another veiled insult.

Pretty soon you're out of time here.

Also, jealous?


This from a guy who gets upset that I'm "mean" to him and he has to, once again, try to insult me.... Ironic.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

The only one you want to do favors for is yourself. You constantly ignore points and try to ridicule them.

I take what the defense gives me. 

You just tried to use festival attendance as support for one act on the bill's drawing power in the present day.

Under that rationale, everyone that went to Woodstock 1999 was there to see the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

What's that?  They were only one act on a multi-act bill and its literally impossible to gauge what any one act was responsible for in terms of tickets sold?

Well...you don't say.

[jarmo]

I said, if a band has little demand, they don't get OFFERED to headline major festivals.
You disagree? Fine.

Why does a festival book a certain headliner like GN'R? Pretty please, answer that one!



Also, when are you gonna acknowledge that not everything is GN'R related? How about all the posts pointing out that other hard rock acts aren't touring the way they used to in the USA? Is that even registering over there?




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I said, if a band has little demand, they don't get OFFERED to headline major festivals.
You disagree? Fine.

Why does a festival book a certain headliner like GN'R? Pretty please, answer that one!

I totally agree.

That's why I have said about a million times Axl would have been nuts to ditch the name.  Every time anyone tries to sell how Axl should have "done the right thing" and retired the name, I mock them. 

Are you nuts?  The others are the fools on that one, not Axl.

Also, when are you gonna acknowledge that not everything is GN'R related? How about all the posts pointing out that other hard rock acts aren't touring the way they used to in the USA? Is that even registering over there?

I think its valid, to a point.

if you want to tell me that the days of multiple nights in areans are over, not just for GNR, but for other rock bands...I can sign on.

But, is that the only way to tour?  Are arenas the only venues in cities all across this great nation?  Hardly.  Just because you can't move 40,000 seats over 2 nights, I trust you could still fill smaller places all across the country playing Guns N' Roses songs, no?

[pilferk]

I said, if a band has little demand, they don't get OFFERED to headline major festivals.
You disagree? Fine.

Why does a festival book a certain headliner like GN'R? Pretty please, answer that one!

I totally agree.

That's why I have said about a million times Axl would have been nuts to ditch the name.  Every time anyone tries to sell how Axl should have "done the right thing" and retired the name, I mock them. 

Are you nuts?  The others are the fools on that one, not Axl.

Also, when are you gonna acknowledge that not everything is GN'R related? How about all the posts pointing out that other hard rock acts aren't touring the way they used to in the USA? Is that even registering over there?

I think its valid, to a point.

if you want to tell me that the days of multiple nights in areans are over, not just for GNR, but for other rock bands...I can sign on.

But, is that the only way to tour?  Are arenas the only venues in cities all across this great nation?  Hardly.  Just because you can't move 40,000 seats over 2 nights, I trust you could still fill smaller places all across the country playing Guns N' Roses songs, no?

The below is not specifically geared toward gnr:

1) not just mult nights, same city is done...but 35+ city, play every arena that has 2 doors and 12k seats in the u.s., days are over. They just are, at least for now.

2) there are other ways to tour, but smaller venues might not be it. Not given the economies involved. i dont think theres enough on that steak to keep a promoter happy. Less cities, same size venues, near larger populatio centers...say 10 to 15 dates...seems to work ok, right now.  Smaller venues work for resdencies/same city type stuff, because no travel is really involved.

3) IF smaller venues worked, economically, you'd get a drastically different kind of show. I'm not sure how that would play to most rock and roll audiences, who sort of enjoy/expect the spectacle

[jarmo]

I said, if a band has little demand, they don't get OFFERED to headline major festivals.
You disagree? Fine.

Why does a festival book a certain headliner like GN'R? Pretty please, answer that one!

I totally agree.

That's why I have said about a million times Axl would have been nuts to ditch the name.  Every time anyone tries to sell how Axl should have "done the right thing" and retired the name, I mock them. 

Are you nuts?  The others are the fools on that one, not Axl.

Sorry, but you danced around the question.

if you want to tell me that the days of multiple nights in areans are over, not just for GNR, but for other rock bands...I can sign on.

But, is that the only way to tour?  Are arenas the only venues in cities all across this great nation?  Hardly.  Just because you can't move 40,000 seats over 2 nights, I trust you could still fill smaller places all across the country playing Guns N' Roses songs, no?

I'm not saying multiple nights or certain venues are off limits. I don't know.
All I've tried to say is that there's something going on and it's a valid explanation for things being the way they are. It's not about the typical generic lazy "it's bad because GN'R is bad" answer.

Sometimes it's as simple as timing. You might be able to get 15,000-20,000 during the summer, but then less in the winter. Or vice versa!
Or if there's multiple tours hitting the same city within weeks, that could affect the tour. There's all kinds of things that you need to take into account.




/jarmo

[raindogs70]

Festivals are a nice moneymaker and a challenge to a band to play to an audience that's not theirs.

[D-GenerationX]

3) IF smaller venues worked, economically, you'd get a drastically different kind of show. I'm not sure how that would play to most rock and roll audiences, who sort of enjoy/expect the spectacle

This is a fair point.  I like that sort of stuff too, always have.  I would rather expect it, I think.

Which is why I could never get onboard with mortis ripping the Las Vegas set-up.  I not only like that sort of thing, that's pretty much who this band has always been.  There has always been something of a dynamic stage show.

My other favorite band is Pearl Jam.  Amazing band live.  But the visual presentation, have to be honest, kind of...eh. 

[D-GenerationX]

Festivals are a nice moneymaker and a challenge to a band to play to an audience that's not theirs.

Which I think helps make the 2006 Download show awesome.

That crowd is NOT digging Guns N Roses for like, the first 10 songs of that thing.  But, they keep at it, and they are rocking by the end. 

One of my favorite 2006 performances.  Strong night from Axl.

[TheBaconman]

3) IF smaller venues worked, economically, you'd get a drastically different kind of show. I'm not sure how that would play to most rock and roll audiences, who sort of enjoy/expect the spectacle

This is a fair point.  I like that sort of stuff too, always have.  I would rather expect it, I think.

Which is why I could never get onboard with mortis ripping the Las Vegas set-up.  I not only like that sort of thing, that's pretty much who this band has always been.  There has always been something of a dynamic stage show.

My other favorite band is Pearl Jam.  Amazing band live.  But the visual presentation, have to be honest, kind of...eh. 

As a fan that actually goes to the shows   Both local, both hours road trip, and both flying to other countries to see them...  That's a lot of boths....

Anyways.. 

I prefer smaller venues...   I prefer a bar settting....  Hate festivals.    and any show you would see in a stadium looks better in a arena

That Said

When I watch my concert blue rays....  Nothing sounds or looks better then a huge festival show....

[jarmo]

Seems like I'm here asking somebody to answer my question for the third time.
Not really surprised.

Making claims like the one about there not being demand for GN'R. But failing to answer a simple question related to that: Why do festivals book a band like GN'R to headline?
It's got very little to do with what you think of other bands or what you think of a festival GN'R played in the past.




/jarmo

[reayj2003]

Festivals are a nice moneymaker and a challenge to a band to play to an audience that's not theirs.

Which I think helps make the 2006 Download show awesome.

That crowd is NOT digging Guns N Roses for like, the first 10 songs of that thing.  But, they keep at it, and they are rocking by the end. 

One of my favorite 2006 performances.  Strong night from Axl.

I was at Download and it was my worst ever GN'R experience. Awful.

Sadly I think GN'R have blown it with UK festivals.

[dolphins]

So does this mean there's no news on Ron yet?   

[GNR2014]

GNR's performance at Governors Ball is already the stuff of legend.
They killed.

[reayj2003]

GNR's performance at Governors Ball is already the stuff of legend.
They killed.

They adapted the set to suit which is what they should of done at Reading in 2010.

[D-GenerationX]

I was at Download and it was my worst ever GN'R experience. Awful.

Sadly I think GN'R have blown it with UK festivals.

The first half of it seems rough, based on the Youtube clips I've seen.  Crowd is not super cooperative.

But I thought the situation had righted itself by show's end.  Is that not right?