Goodbye Ron (???)

[Sosso]

I would actually say that if DC are hitting 60,000 in stadia which can seat a maximum 70,000-80,000 plus, that would be regarded as a 'triumph'. Nobody is arguing that ACDC are Michael Jackson here, just that Jarmo's argument seems the wrong argument to make in light of the fact that, yes there is one less gig than Canada but you have six mammoth stadiums here!

The Black Ice tour was more an arena tour. That might be it for the US in the sense that ACDC have hedged their bets on a shorter tour with much bigger venues. Also, the States does not have the festival scene that Europe has. I still expect, at a minimum, another European festival leg. Not sure about further US legs?

Well, it's just the tour has not even started yet so I would say that more legs are coming soon.

[mortismurphy]

Obviously I meant in addition to the ones already booked!

[Sosso]

Yeah, same here.

[pilferk]

I find it very funny that the country of 300 million people had to find excuses as to not attend live music concerts.   Especially guns n roses

There are just as many things here to spend money on as there and if something is t here we travel to find it.   

Bacon...I love you, man.  But, what you're saying/implying? It's just not true.

Canada does NOT have remotely the same population distribution or nearly as many live events.  You just don't.  And I'm not trying to say Canada is the suxor or that you are inferior to the good ole US of A.  But the facts are the facts.

Yes, we have 300 million people, with a geographic population distribution that's VERY different.  About 80% of Canada's population of 35+ million lives within an hours drive one (or more) of it's 14 major cities, which means access is largely easier and you have a larger pool of people to draw from in each geographic locale....and a smaller NUMBER of those locales.

GnR does quite well in the major population center (LA, NYC, Boston, etc) where they have similar access to large numbers of people.

In Canada, you have 11 indoor arenas, in the whole country, that can hold 15k+ people (I have at least 11 within a 4 hour drive of my house).  You have 12 additional major stadiums that hold 12k+ people (I have at least 10 within a 4 hour drive of my house).  You have 9 major league sports franchises, most of them hockey (I have at least within a 4 hour drive of my house). The US has more venues and CHOICES, even per capita.

It's just not comparable.  No matter how much you want it to be, no matter how much you insist it is...it's not. Demonstrably NOT.  Yes, you have lots of stuff to do, given your population.  You don't have the same length and breadth of choices offered in the US.  And you shouldn't...your geographic distribution and population isn't the same.  But even per capita.....nope.

How well do you think GnR would draw in, say, Whitehorse, or YellowKnife, or Fort Smith, or Churchill?  Because THAT (with maybe slightly more population to draw from) is what you're looking at in the Midwest in the US.  Lots of smaller cities, whose musical tastes are going to tend away from rock (and, in many cases, toward country).  And those cities have been some of the hardest hit, economically, too.

It's not an excuse.  It's context. You can't simply ignore what's going on, and what is, and say "it shouldn't be that way".

Edit: Look, I'm the first to admit...musical tastes are definitely a factor...and I know Canada's a lot more supportive of the rock genre, in general!  You guys and gals have that in spades.

You're also more economically stable (thanks idiot politicians from both parties), which helps you all out, too.  You probably are able to CONSUME more live entainment, both because of that and, maybe, more reasonable prices (in CA dollars).

I'll give Canada it's due.  For sure.  But on the subject of "competition for your dollar", in terms of offerings and availability....US holds a lead by a wide margin.  Even per capita.

[pilferk]

It's almost like people are pushing a false premise in an attempt to put a good face on a situation, huh?

Except...simply SAYING it's false doesn't make it so.

If you disagree, please, by all means...make a case.  I'm all ears.

[pilferk]

These are all massive stadia. Dodger Stadium: 56,000. Gillette Stadium: 68,000! I honestly do not see a single rhetorical point to be made, simply because the United States has one - I repeat, one - less date than Canada, when we are discussing venues of such proportions. If anything, I would argue the reverse, that the fact that DC can play these mammoth stadia highlights the strength of rock n' roll there.

Those stadiums are central to HUGE population centers.

And the 6 shows does exactly what I suggest rock can do to be successful, touring: Create scarcity so you can draw from the various population centers, rather than do 60 shows around the country.

Pop acts, R&B acts, country acts...thats how they tour.  And the big ones, especially, sell out every show.  Sometimes 2 in a state.

There aren't many, if ANY, "traditional" rock (as in, not within the redefinition that includes acts like Lourde and Ed Sheeran) acts that could do that today in the US.  That speaks to the relatively weakness of the genre, here.

Because, at one time, they could.  Every fly by night band could...because rock was the top genre.

[pilferk]

Ehh, August?

Guns n Roses, Metallica, Faith no More sold out Foxboro (which is now replaced by Gillette) in something like 30 minutes back in 1992.

The big pop acts sell out 20k seats in minutes (if not seconds), now.

So, the fact the show isn't til August? Yeah, doesn't matter.

[pilferk]

I would actually say that if DC are hitting 60,000 in stadia which can seat a maximum 70,000-80,000 plus, that would be regarded as a 'triumph'. Nobody is arguing that ACDC are Michael Jackson here, just that Jarmo's argument seems the wrong argument to make in light of the fact that, yes there is one less gig than Canada but you have six mammoth stadiums here!

The Black Ice tour was more an arena tour. That might be it for the US in the sense that ACDC have hedged their bets on a shorter tour with much bigger venues. Also, the States does not have the festival scene that Europe has. I still expect, at a minimum, another European festival leg. Not sure about further US legs?

7 shows in Canada, to service roughly 35 million people.

6 shows in the US to service roughly 350 million.

Even if the US arenas are roughly 3x to 4x the capacity of the Canadian shows, it's still not roughly equivalent. Not even close.

[JAEBALL]

I would actually say that if DC are hitting 60,000 in stadia which can seat a maximum 70,000-80,000 plus, that would be regarded as a 'triumph'. Nobody is arguing that ACDC are Michael Jackson here, just that Jarmo's argument seems the wrong argument to make in light of the fact that, yes there is one less gig than Canada but you have six mammoth stadiums here!

The Black Ice tour was more an arena tour. That might be it for the US in the sense that ACDC have hedged their bets on a shorter tour with much bigger venues. Also, the States does not have the festival scene that Europe has. I still expect, at a minimum, another European festival leg. Not sure about further US legs?

7 shows in Canada, to service roughly 35 million people.

6 shows in the US to service 350 million.

Even if the US arenas are roughly 3x to 4x the capacity of the Canadian shows, it's still not roughly equivalent. Not even close.

Which is why any comparison doesn't work.

[D-GenerationX]

It's almost like people are pushing a false premise in an attempt to put a good face on a situation, huh?

Except...simply SAYING it's false doesn't make it so.

If you disagree, please, by all means...make a case.  I'm all ears.

Come on, man.

This is hardly the first argument made around here that is used to explain away GNR's current status.  And works so long as you never take 2 seconds to ask why its a situation that only seem to apply to GNR.  And is only argued on GNR boards.  By GNR fans to other GNR fans.

The lack of demand for GNR in this country in 2015 is not due to a bunch of unfavorable trends, forces conspiring against them, and a public that isn't interested in rock, going to concerts, etc.  Its because there just isn't much demand for the current version of the product.

Don't church it up.  

[pilferk]

Come on, man.

This is hardly the first argument made around here that is used to explain away GNR's current status.  And works so long as you never take 2 seconds to ask why its a situation that only seem to apply to GNR.  And is only argued on GNR boards.  By GNR fans to other GNR fans.

The lack of demand for GNR in this country in 2015 is not due to a bunch of unfavorable trends, forces conspiring against them, and a public that isn't interested in rock, going to concerts, etc.  Its because there just isn't much demand for the current version of the product.

Don't church it up.  

I actually made the argument pretty broadly, both in terms of album sales and ticket sales. The factors aren't (and don't seem to be) specific to GnR, but to all of what most people posting here would consider "traditional" rock. So, I pretty much didn't make an excuse targeted toward GnR.  I made one targeted toward the genre.

So, in essence, you don't actually have a counterargument.  Fair enough.

[TheBaconman]

I find it very funny that the country of 300 million people had to find excuses as to not attend live music concerts.   Especially guns n roses

There are just as many things here to spend money on as there and if something is t here we travel to find it.   

Bacon...I love you, man.  But, what you're saying/implying? It's just not true.

Canada does NOT have remotely the same population distribution or nearly as many live events.  You just don't.  And I'm not trying to say Canada is the suxor or that you are inferior to the good ole US of A.  But the facts are the facts.

Yes, we have 300 million people, with a geographic population distribution that's VERY different.  About 80% of Canada's population of 35+ million lives within an hours drive one (or more) of it's 14 major cities, which means access is largely easier and you have a larger pool of people to draw from in each geographic locale....and a smaller NUMBER of those locales.

GnR does quite well in the major population center (LA, NYC, Boston, etc) where they have similar access to large numbers of people.

In Canada, you have 11 indoor arenas, in the whole country, that can hold 15k+ people (I have at least 11 within a 4 hour drive of my house).  You have 12 additional major stadiums that hold 12k+ people (I have at least 10 within a 4 hour drive of my house).  You have 9 major league sports franchises, most of them hockey (I have at least within a 4 hour drive of my house). The US has more venues and CHOICES, even per capita.

It's just not comparable.  No matter how much you want it to be, no matter how much you insist it is...it's not. Demonstrably NOT.  Yes, you have lots of stuff to do, given your population.  You don't have the same length and breadth of choices offered in the US.  And you shouldn't...your geographic distribution and population isn't the same.  But even per capita.....nope.

How well do you think GnR would draw in, say, Whitehorse, or YellowKnife, or Fort Smith, or Churchill?  Because THAT (with maybe slightly more population to draw from) is what you're looking at in the Midwest in the US.  Lots of smaller cities, whose musical tastes are going to tend away from rock (and, in many cases, toward country).  And those cities have been some of the hardest hit, economically, too.

It's not an excuse.  It's context. You can't simply ignore what's going on, and what is, and say "it shouldn't be that way".

Edit: Look, I'm the first to admit...musical tastes are definitely a factor...and I know Canada's a lot more supportive of the rock genre, in general!  You guys and gals have that in spades.

You're also more economically stable (thanks idiot politicians from both parties), which helps you all out, too.  You probably are able to CONSUME more live entainment, both because of that and, maybe, more reasonable prices (in CA dollars).

I'll give Canada it's due.  For sure.  But on the subject of "competition for your dollar", in terms of offerings and availability....US holds a lead by a wide margin.  Even per capita.

Thank you. I do like being loved.  And I am a good choice so thanks haha

I never made a come to on the sprawl affect of the American population of how the canadian population is very close to major cities.  But I will agree most of the canadian population is located close to its major cities.  And in fact most of the Canadian population is located very close to the u Jfed statss border   Or as I like to say the American border is located close to the majority of the Canadian population    Haha

I will consider that there are more events in U.S. markets that could cause people to spend there money in other areas than in seeing live music/guns n roses.  I would be crazy not to say this. BUT....  The amount of events does not offset the population differnt in the two countries and can not be used as an excuse as to why people in the  United states choose not to see events

Also just because most of the Canadian pollution lives close to its major cities isn't always a plus when it comes to seeing events.  In a lot of parts of Canada unless u live in the downtown areas you are driving to these events.  Because the public fransportaion stinks.  I live about 45 mins away from the downtown area and have to drive to events    Which should be a factor in people staying home and not attending.  But it's not. We still manage to get out.   I wish we had a public fransportaion system like New York or some other U.S. city.  

[TheBaconman]

I would actually say that if DC are hitting 60,000 in stadia which can seat a maximum 70,000-80,000 plus, that would be regarded as a 'triumph'. Nobody is arguing that ACDC are Michael Jackson here, just that Jarmo's argument seems the wrong argument to make in light of the fact that, yes there is one less gig than Canada but you have six mammoth stadiums here!

The Black Ice tour was more an arena tour. That might be it for the US in the sense that ACDC have hedged their bets on a shorter tour with much bigger venues. Also, the States does not have the festival scene that Europe has. I still expect, at a minimum, another European festival leg. Not sure about further US legs?

7 shows in Canada, to service roughly 35 million people.

6 shows in the US to service roughly 350 million.

Even if the US arenas are roughly 3x to 4x the capacity of the Canadian shows, it's still not roughly equivalent. Not even close.

An arena in Canada is the same size as a arena in the u ites states  14-20 gs

A stadium is roughly the same size as a stadium in the states  40-60 gs

There is not some weird stadium conversion factor to use here hahaa

[pilferk]

An arena in Canada is the same size as a arena in the u ites states  14-20 gs

A stadium is roughly the same size as a stadium in the states  40-60 gs

There is not some weird stadium conversion factor to use here hahaa

Are the 7 Canadian shows all in stadiums, too?  I think that was the point....that the US was getting huge stadium shows while Canada was getting arena shows.  I'm not sure (which is why I said "even if the US arenas"), as I'm not up on the Canadian leg of the AC DC tour.

[jarmo]

I would actually say that if DC are hitting 60,000 in stadia which can seat a maximum 70,000-80,000 plus, that would be regarded as a 'triumph'. Nobody is arguing that ACDC are Michael Jackson here, just that Jarmo's argument seems the wrong argument to make in light of the fact that, yes there is one less gig than Canada but you have six mammoth stadiums here!

7 shows in Canada, to service roughly 35 million people.

6 shows in the US to service roughly 350 million.

Even if the US arenas are roughly 3x to 4x the capacity of the Canadian shows, it's still not roughly equivalent. Not even close.

Exactly. Thanks.

But you know, we're dealing with an AC/DC fan here. Who likes GN'R, sometimes.

No, it says that the band hasn't done a very good job of selling itself to the people since the relaunch.

So you're saying they did a better job in countries outside the USA? Places where fans go see the show for what it is, instead of staying home because they've been told "it's not GN'R"?
Why didn't you go see GNR in 2014?

The lack of demand for GNR in this country in 2015 is not due to a bunch of unfavorable trends, forces conspiring against them, and a public that isn't interested in rock, going to concerts, etc.  Its because there just isn't much demand for the current version of the product.

Don't church it up. 

The lack of demand?
It's just been pointed out to you many times that there's a lack of demand for multiple hard rock bands. Yet you live in your little Bon Jovi fantasy bubble and think GN'R is the only one dealing with this.

Stop pretending that everything is bad in the world of GN'R only. Doesn't make it a fact just because you think so. Ask your mom!

Your answer to everything is: It's only GN'R and it's because they didn't listen to me.





/jarmo

[TheBaconman]

An arena in Canada is the same size as a arena in the u ites states  14-20 gs

A stadium is roughly the same size as a stadium in the states  40-60 gs

There is not some weird stadium conversion factor to use here hahaa

Are the 7 Canadian shows all in stadiums, too?  I think that was the point....that the US was getting huge stadium shows while Canada was getting arena shows.  I'm not sure (which is why I said "even if the US arenas"), as I'm not up on the Canadian leg of the AC DC tour.

I ou know of the one show here in edmonton. That will be in our football stadium and too a sell out have 60000 people there.  And rumors are they may announce a second date

[pilferk]

Thank you. I do like being loved.  And I am a good choice so thanks haha

I will consider that there are more events in U.S. markets that could cause people to spend there money in other areas than in seeing live music/guns n roses.  I would be crazy not to say this. BUT....  The amount of events does not offset the population differnt in the two countries and can not be used as an excuse as to why people in the  United states choose not to see events

It does offset when you consider distribution.

It explains why there is a NEED to prioritize.  The different musical tastes (and preference for other types of live entertainment, like sports) is definitely "on us", as a whole.

If you want to say that, as a whole, the US musical tastes suck....I probably won't disagree.  What sells, and the acts that sell gobs of tickets around the country...not my cup of tea.

Also just because most of the Canadian pollution lives close to its major cities isn't always a plus when it comes to seeing events.  In a lot of parts of Canada unless u live in the downtown areas you are driving to these events.  Because the public fransportaion stinks.  I live about 45 mins away from the downtown area and have to drive to events    Which should be a factor in people staying home and not attending.  But it's not. We still manage to get out.   I wish we had a public fransportaion system like New York or some other U.S. city.  

Yeah, really good public transportation systems aren't as common as you think in the US. New York has a good one, Boston's is OK (when not inundated by 9 feet of snow)..but largely you'll find that the US population is driving into the city to see shows, too.  Some of us driving 2 to 3 hours to get there (me to NYC or Boston).

[pilferk]

An arena in Canada is the same size as a arena in the u ites states  14-20 gs

A stadium is roughly the same size as a stadium in the states  40-60 gs

There is not some weird stadium conversion factor to use here hahaa

Are the 7 Canadian shows all in stadiums, too?  I think that was the point....that the US was getting huge stadium shows while Canada was getting arena shows.  I'm not sure (which is why I said "even if the US arenas"), as I'm not up on the Canadian leg of the AC DC tour.

I ou know of the one show here in edmonton. That will be in our football stadium and too a sell out have 60000 people there.  And rumors are they may announce a second date

If that's the case, the disparity is even larger.

7 stadium shows for 35 million vs 6 stadium shows for 350 million.

And I absolutely understand why....I think we've been hashing that out over the past couple pages.

Edited for typo: arena vs stadium!

[jarmo]

If that's the case, the disparity is even larger.

7 arena shows for 35 million vs 6 arena shows for 350 million.

Pilferk, haven't you listened? They'll be back playing for the rest!
They just don't have time to do more shows on the first leg.... Nothing to do with demand... Nothing. To even suggest it is crazy! Not possible!


Only GN'R has "problems". All these other bands release new albums and do everything according to the rulebook!
Metallica not making a profit on their US festival is probably because of GN'R!




/jarmo

[pilferk]

If that's the case, the disparity is even larger.

7 stadium shows for 35 million vs 6 stadium shows for 350 million.

Pilferk, haven't you listened? They'll be back playing for the rest!
They just don't have time to do more shows on the first leg.... Nothing to do with demand... Nothing. To even suggest it is crazy! Not possible!


Only GN'R has "problems". All these other bands release new albums and do everything according to the rulebook!
Metallica not making a profit on their US festival is probably because of GN'R!

/jarmo

Yeah....I saw it all.

I'm just having trouble reconciling it with annual album sales, best selling tour numbers, and tour gross numbers that have been published over the past 5+ years or so.

And last year's Metallica numbers were real eye openers.  Because, prior to that, they were on the short list of "we can tour the US and make money" rock acts.  Even they might have slipped off.

Given AC/DC's dates...I don't think they're coming back to the US to do any more STADIUM shows.  Maybe arena shows come winter...we'll see.  I doubt that though. Highly.