Goodbye Ron (???)

[pilferk]

Because there are no compelling reason to believe there is a 'lack of demand'. DC could easily extend their two UK dates to four-five and sell those dates out. You are going to look incredibly silly if DC do add subsequent legs, Jarmo.

How so?

I don't see him saying they shouldn't, or couldn't.

I see him looking at the different way YOU interpret the information.

In one case, it's about "possibly planning for a second leg".  In other words, you're giving them the benefit of the doubt, and the speculation you're engaging in is largely "positive".

On the other hand, with GnR, the speculation has largely been of the type "they have fewer shows because they can't sell more tickets".  I'd say that speculation has largely a "negative" spin.

YOU are going to argue they are both reality...I'm sure....so therefore that's why the difference.

But it's notable that it seems to be a "prevailing wind" in many of your posts....pretty much every other band you are able to "explain away" or "justify" a much more positive outlook, while the same tactics/pov is not applied to GnR.   I don't know if it's relevant or not (I'll leave that to you and jarmo to hash out). But it's hard to deny that it's there.

What I said to Jarmo equally applies to this. You both have a thoroughly erroneous preconceived belief on how I see rock bands.

No...again..you should read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote.  All of it.

It's undeniably there, so it's notable.  It's up to you to explain it away and rationalize it I(if you feel the need)....and, quite frankly, I don't care one way or the other. Personally, I don't need an explanation.  I'm just pointing out it's why he's making the point that he is.

I'm simply explaining his argument to you, because you seem not to understand it.

And if you think he has an erroneously preconceived belief on how you see rock bands..you only have yourself to blame for it.  It's what you're putting on the page....

[pilferk]

OK...levity time:

Every time I see the thread title...Elton John's "Candle in the Wind" plays in my head.  I just can't NOT tell everyone that, anymore.

You're all very welcome for putting that in your heads, and forcing the same affliction on you.

[mortismurphy]

Jarmo said, 'I am giving ACDC the benefit of the doubt here'. I am not. I am hoping (for my own personal reasons) and predicting (based on an educated analyse of the itinerary and prior practices) that there are subsequent touring legs, not exonerating ACDC. There is nothing really there to exonerate if DC book subsequent legs in the markets they missed.

Would it help you two if I said, 'if there are no further UK dates I would actually be quite disappointed'? Would that help?

[pilferk]

Jarmo said, 'I am giving ACDC the benefit of the doubt here'. I am not. I am hoping (for my own personal reasons) and predicting (based on an educated analyse of the itinerary and prior practices) that there are subsequent touring legs, not exonerating ACDC. There is nothing really there to exonerate if DC book subsequent legs in the markets they missed.

Would it help you two if I said, 'if there are no further UK dates I would actually be quite disappointed'? Would that help?

Again, I've got no horse in the race.  I'm simply explaining his point to you.  You're not having the argument with me.

It's not just AC/DC.  It's just about every other band you mention, in context of categorizing or comparing with GnR (or anyone else). 

It's fine...I could care less.  But I'm just pointing out to you, aware of it or not, it's there...and that's what he's talking about.

[jarmo]

Well then it is all based on an erroneous reading of me. I interpret every move a band does on an item by item basis.

Yeah, sure. And for some odd reason 99% of GN'R relating moves are interpreted negatively!
It's your bias talking. Nothing more, nothing less.




/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

Well then it is all based on an erroneous reading of me. I interpret every move a band does on an item by item basis.

Yeah, sure. And for some odd reason 99% of GN'R relating moves are interpreted negatively!
It's your bias talking. Nothing more, nothing less.




/jarmo

Probably because I have not been impressed with much they have done since around 2011 (Rio 4 disaster). If they got a new album out and went on an arena tour in support of that album I might think differently. I am not really a fan of golden oldies, 'rock like it is 1987', acts. I tend to admire bands that are prolific in the album department.

[jarmo]

Allrighty then. Come back when that happens!




/jarmo

[TheBaconman]

The current lineup is the best lineup of GNR ever. Fact.

Definitely...

Pilferk...I respect ur opinion on topics like this .. you think the declining ticket sales in the US has much to do with just having a lot of choices to spend your dollar? more than some other places around the world?

I find it very funny that the country of 300 million people had to find excuses as to not attend live music concerts.   Especially guns n roses

There are just as many things here to spend money on as there and if something is t here we travel to find it.   

[D-GenerationX]

I find it very funny that the country of 300 million people had to find excuses as to not attend live music concerts.   Especially guns n roses

There are just as many things here to spend money on as there and if something is t here we travel to find it.   

It's almost like people are pushing a false premise in an attempt to put a good face on a situation, huh?

[JAEBALL]

The current lineup is the best lineup of GNR ever. Fact.

Definitely...

Pilferk...I respect ur opinion on topics like this .. you think the declining ticket sales in the US has much to do with just having a lot of choices to spend your dollar? more than some other places around the world?

I find it very funny that the country of 300 million people had to find excuses as to not attend live music concerts.   Especially guns n roses

There are just as many things here to spend money on as there and if something is t here we travel to find it.   

I find ur anti USA bias to be very funny...We have gone over this a bunch of times now... the USA is just very much less accepting than others of GNR without Slash.. accept it, it's ok.

[jarmo]

I find ur anti USA bias to be very funny...We have gone over this a bunch of times now... the USA is just very much less accepting than others of GNR without Slash.. accept it, it's ok.

Some of that is because people like to follow others. If you're told something over and over again, you might agree.

A bunch of people like to blame GN'R for all this. Like "they're not popular enough to tour arenas" or whatever. Well maybe that says more about you and your country than it says about GN'R? I'm not trying to bash the country, I love the USA in many regards. But there are differences between how certain countries or continents see a band or rock music in general.

I used AC/DC as an example of things not looking that great in USA for hard rock. I knew that other genres of music are very popular there and when I saw the AC/DC dates I just thought it was weird with "only" six shows. While Canada has seven. Is it demand? Is it because the Canadian promoter did a better job? I don't know...

But they're not the only rock band who has trouble touring the USA. Metallica is another band I've mentioned. They haven't toured the USA in years but do tours outside of the USA every year. They only do one offs in the US. And their festival was not a success.

And these are bands with allegedly great managers who do everything right and are the envy of certain GN'R fans.





/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

I find ur anti USA bias to be very funny...We have gone over this a bunch of times now... the USA is just very much less accepting than others of GNR without Slash.. accept it, it's ok.

Some of that is because people like to follow others. If you're told something over and over again, you might agree.

A bunch of people like to blame GN'R for all this. Like "they're not popular enough to tour arenas" or whatever. Well maybe that says more about you and your country than it says about GN'R? I'm not trying to bash the country, I love the USA in many regards. But there are differences between how certain countries or continents see a band or rock music in general.

I used AC/DC as an example of things not looking that great in USA for hard rock. I knew that other genres of music are very popular there and when I saw the AC/DC dates I just thought it was weird with "only" six shows. While Canada has seven. Is it demand? Is it because the Canadian promoter did a better job? I don't know...

But they're not the only rock band who has trouble touring the USA. Metallica is another band I've mentioned. They haven't toured the USA in years but do tours outside of the USA every year. They only do one offs in the US. And their festival was not a success.

And these are bands with allegedly great managers who do everything right and are the envy of certain GN'R fans.





/jarmo

Well.. I have never criticized management for their handling of the US touring schedule..

Like we discussed rock is just far down the list of our musical taste at the moment...sadly and the economics presently as Pilferk accurately described is also a big factor.

As far as GNR... I THINK a lot of fans here viewed GNR as our Stones and Zeppelin..as the premier american band... ever. So the entire band changing.. was just harder for us to accept as a whole. Kinda like our home town team.

But I am by no means saying that it's only GNR whose sales here have gone down...it is pretty much universal for the entire genre. Minus a couple of acts.

[mortismurphy]

These are all massive stadia. Dodger Stadium: 56,000. Gillette Stadium: 68,000! I honestly do not see a single rhetorical point to be made, simply because the United States has one - I repeat, one - less date than Canada, when we are discussing venues of such proportions. If anything, I would argue the reverse, that the fact that DC can play these mammoth stadia highlights the strength of rock n' roll there.

[D-GenerationX]

Some of that is because people like to follow others. If you're told something over and over again, you might agree.

A bunch of people like to blame GN'R for all this. Like "they're not popular enough to tour arenas" or whatever. Well maybe that says more about you and your country than it says about GN'R? I'm not trying to bash the country, I love the USA in many regards. But there are differences between how certain countries or continents see a band or rock music in general.

No, it says that the band hasn't done a very good job of selling itself to the people since the relaunch.

They were never going to be what they once were, even under the most optimistic of forecasts.  But on name and back catalog alone, they could be doing better than they are doing.

But that was going to take a pretty serious commitment and a lot of hard work on Axl's end, and for whatever reason, he was not interested.  There are many opinions on just why that was.  Its not like you are interested in hearing any of them, because no matter which one you pick, it ends up with Axl having to take some responsibility for the situation.

You could either go all out and bust your ass, basically re-selling yourself all over again.  Or, you could sit around and do next to nothing on that front, and just be happy with whatever you get.

He chose the latter.  That's why they are where they are in this country.  Its not all a big conspiracy.

[D-GenerationX]

As far as GNR... I THINK a lot of fans here viewed GNR as our Stones and Zeppelin..as the premier american band... ever. So the entire band changing.. was just harder for us to accept as a whole. Kinda like our home town team.

Some of that, sure.

It was going to require a hell of a lot of work from Axl.  Props to him for trying all this, I suppose.  But I can really only totally respect it if he was committed not just in changing literally everything, but doing the work necessary to give it the best chance at success.  This was going to be very hard.

He did not go that route.  So we are where we are.

[mortismurphy]

August 26th, New Jersey, Metlife Stadium: 82,566.

Rock is dead they say, long live rock!

[jazjme]

August 26th, New Jersey, Metlife Stadium: 82,566.

Rock is dead they say, long live rock!

And Tix for this have onsale for awhile now, and no where near sold out by a long shot atm. Easy to get floor(field) and lower 100 section tix still. So its not as rosy as you seem to think.And the same goes for all the other stadiums no where near sold out.

[mortismurphy]

August 26th, New Jersey, Metlife Stadium: 82,566.

Rock is dead they say, long live rock!

And Tix for this have onsale for awhile now, and no where near sold out by a long shot atm. Easy to get floor(field) and lower 100 section tix still. So its not as rosy as you seem to think.And the same goes for all the other stadiums no where near sold out.

Ehh, August?

[D-GenerationX]

August 26th, New Jersey, Metlife Stadium: 82,566.

Rock is dead they say, long live rock!

And Tix for this have onsale for awhile now, and no where near sold out by a long shot atm. Easy to get floor(field) and lower 100 section tix still. So its not as rosy as you seem to think.And the same goes for all the other stadiums no where near sold out.

Stadiums are a tall order. I can't imagine they have any delusions they will ever sell it out.

I assume they went stadium because they knew they could draw a crowd bigger than an arena.  They aren't suggesting they'll fill that place entirely.

[mortismurphy]

I would actually say that if DC are hitting 60,000 in stadia which can seat a maximum 70,000-80,000 plus, that would be regarded as a 'triumph'. Nobody is arguing that ACDC are Michael Jackson here, just that Jarmo's argument seems the wrong argument to make in light of the fact that, yes there is one less gig than Canada but you have six mammoth stadiums here!

The Black Ice tour was more an arena tour. That might be it for the US in the sense that ACDC have hedged their bets on a shorter tour with much bigger venues. Also, the States does not have the festival scene that Europe has. I still expect, at a minimum, another European festival leg. Not sure about further US legs?