Goodbye Ron (???)

[D-GenerationX]

So, do you really think it's likely he'll make his way back into the fold?

I honestly think the more time that goes on, the more he makes these kind of passive aggressive comments, the less likely it becomes.

I agree.

If I'm them, I've already seen and heard enough to move on.  Who needs this bullshit?

But then I think about their live show.  DJ can't cover Ron's parts.  Shit, DJ sometimes struggles with his own parts.  Part of me wonders if perhaps they have not said anything because, even with all his bullshit, they now he still works for their live shows and are willing to put up with all his nonsense.

[Ali]

So, do you really think it's likely he'll make his way back into the fold?

I honestly think the more time that goes on, the more he makes these kind of passive aggressive comments, the less likely it becomes.

I agree.

If I'm them, I've already seen and heard enough to move on.  Who needs this bullshit?

But then I think about their live show.  DJ can't cover Ron's parts.  Shit, DJ sometimes struggles with his own parts.  Part of me wonders if perhaps they have not said anything because, even with all his bullshit, they now he still works for their live shows and are willing to put up with all his nonsense.

Certainly, there are certain songs, like "Shackler's Revenge" that would be hard to pull off without someone of Ron's skill level.

However, I think that can be worked around to some extent by cutting out that song, in particular.

Honestly, I've always been of the opinion that Richard is a great lead player and he can do much more of that than he's been asked to do thus far.  I think he could handle playing lead on "Chinese Democracy" and "There Was A Time", and even a newly revisited UYI song like "Yesterdays".

I'm not all that worried about GN'R being able to work around and cope without Ron in a live setting.  I hope, if nothing else, it gives Richard even more of a chance to shine.

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

You do wonder if Ron is out if maybe they see if they can go with just 2 guitarists.

[Ali]

You do wonder if Ron is out if maybe they see if they can go with just 2 guitarists.

I think they COULD provided Richard takes a more active role as lead guitar player.  But, Axl could have also gone with two in 2006, but chose not to.  Maybe this time will be different, but I wouldn't be surprised if a third guitar player was brought on.

Ali

[jarmo]

Well, they are people with eyes.  And can see what's been done with the band/brand over the past 15 years.

It speaks for itself.  Not sure anyone has to be a business savant to find it all underwhelming.

Your whole beef is the "real fans" are not supposed to notice that.  Or, if they do, just keep it to themselves.  Maybe if we don't talk about it, it will all go away.

Not sure what that's accomplishing.  Never been a real believer in self delusion.

They have eyes? Aren't these the same people with eyes who use their free thinking to post thins such as "they have a reputation of canceling shows"? If they have eyes, they would've known things have gotten better in that regard since 2002. This is just one example of people assuming shit.

If you want to dislike something, you will be able to do so by ignoring what's in front of you. That's what the problem is.

If you are confused why I am more lenient on DC than Guns, the answer is very simple: AC/DC release albums (occasionally), about two per decade. As a fan I look to two criteria for a reasonably big signed band to be considered a functioning band. I look firstly to albums of original studio material and secondly to live shows. Those are the two moments that I interact with the band, listening to the album and attending the live shows. If the albums did not exist, I would not have been a fan in the first place. When one of those avenues is cut off, as in Axl's case, you are left with a vacuum.

I'm not confused at all. You're a fan of something that doesn't exist so you spend your free time whining about it. Your little rule book for what a band needs to be. GN'R isn't following your rules, so you're a grumpy AC/DC fan lost on a GN'R fan site.
Move on. Go Google some AC/DC site.

He just needs to come to terms with that nobody is going to want to interview him UNLESS they can ask about Axl... that's all.

Like I said earlier, I don't think that site AlternativeNAtion would interview him without the Scott and/or GN'R connection....




/jarmo

[pilferk]

(we were in a semantic debate on the word, 'band').

No, we're not.  We've clearly demonstrated that GnR are a band, using your favorite method.

[D-GenerationX]

They have eyes? Aren't these the same people with eyes who use their free thinking to post thins such as "they have a reputation of canceling shows"? If they have eyes, they would've known things have gotten better in that regard since 2002. This is just one example of people assuming shit.

Still on that, huh?  12 months later, 15 months later.  Whatever it winds up being.

You can take or leave me though.  You couldn't be more chill about me.  You're breezy.

If you want to dislike something, you will be able to do so by ignoring what's in front of you. That's what the problem is.

What's in front of me is an underwhelming body of work in 15 years time.  That's what's in front of me.

Sorry it steams your clams.  If you are going to get salty at everyone that sees it that way, I trust you don't talk to many other human beings about this band.

[FunkyMonkey]

So I don't know if Ron ever thought he would get things to change during his tenure... just now he's no longer willing to put GNR first if they come calling last minute. I see nothing wrong with that. It's his life...
 

I agree that seems to be what's happened.  And yes, if that's his decision it's his life.

I would love a brief statement from GNR...

We just want to thank Ron Thal for his years of service to the GNR brand... we wish him well in the future.

Short n Sweet

That would go a long way to end all the speculation.

[D-GenerationX]

I would love a brief statement from GNR...

We just want to thank Ron Thal for his years of service to the GNR brand... we wish him well in the future.

Short n Sweet

That would go a long way to end all the speculation.

Yep.

And failure to do so is only fueling speculation they are OK with all this.

[Sosso]

He should focus on his own solo stuff and close the GN'R chapter in his life - that's my point of view

[jarmo]

Still on that, huh?  12 months later, 15 months later.  Whatever it winds up being.

You can take or leave me though.  You couldn't be more chill about me.  You're breezy.

Yeah, it's funny what those people with eyes choose to see and what they choose to ignore!
Yet they are quick to point out how business "works".

Please.

What's in front of me is an underwhelming body of work in 15 years time.  That's what's in front of me.

That's your opinion. Not a fact.

Go listen to Bon Jovi. 




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

He should focus on his own solo stuff and close the GN'R chapter in his life - that's my point of view

Seems best for all.  If he's truly frustrated and unhappy, its about things unlikely to change.

And from the band's point of view, why keep someone around that takes all these little shots at you?  He can cash your checks, but then rip you when you aren't around?

Piss on that.

[D-GenerationX]

What's in front of me is an underwhelming body of work in 15 years time.  That's what's in front of me.

That's your opinion. Not a fact.

No, its a fact.

Again, don't even go back to 1993.  Start in 2000 or 2001.

Here you have an operation that starts out with :

- one of the most recognizable and popular names in rock
- millions, literally millions of established fans
- the built in ability to sell out arenas (and stadiums in some places) just by announcing they are showing up

What the hell other band starts out with that?  Its unheard of.

And in that time, through countless missed opportunities, inaction, and general malaise, they have :

- diminished the status of that recognizable and popular name in rock
- shed millions, literally millions of fans
- playing smaller and smaller venues

If this band's body of work was reviewed like an employee was given a performance review over the past 15 years, you'd fire them based on those results.

That's just the way it is.  There are other rosier and vaguer spins you can put on it, sure.  Undefinable stuff about how they are happy and content.  Fine, do that. 

You can even get snitty about it and say anyone that wants to focus on the raw numbers should fuck off.  If that makes you feel better, have at it.

But those raw numbers and indisputable facts are what they are.  GNR 2.0 started out on third base with a healthy lead...and they have yet to score.  In 15 years time.

Doesn't mean I'm not a fan.  Doesn't mean I'm not still all in.  Doesn't mean I will ever leave.

Does mean I will not insult the intelligence of anyone within earshot and laughably try to argue that this has all been some screaming success.  That's foolishness.

[Sosso]

He should focus on his own solo stuff and close the GN'R chapter in his life - that's my point of view

Seems best for all.  If he's truly frustrated and unhappy, its about things unlikely to change.

And from the band's point of view, why keep someone around that takes all these little shots at you?  He can cash your checks, but then rip you when you aren't around?

Piss on that.

Gilby was fired for saying less "passive agressive" things

[jarmo]

Underwhelming: fail to impress or make a positive impact on (someone); disappoint.

It's not a fact. Please. Your opinion that the music released since 2000 has been underwhelming is not a fact.

You take yourself way too seriously.


Also, this again?
I'm surprised you didn't bring up the setlist.


Your favorite things you like to discuss about GN'R:

How bad it's been since 2000 and how you know what's best for the band.
How the setlist isn't good enough for you to watch on Youtube.
The lack of promotion in 2008.
How much you dislike the current management.
Anything else that's negative so you can show everybody what a real fan you are.



Move on. Find a band you like. Not one you like to whine about.
Toodles.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Gilby was fired for saying less "passive aggressive" things

That's a good point.

Although, in rereading that Chinese Whispers site, I don't think many people are as aware that was as much Slash as Axl. Neither man really saw much potential in Gilby as a writer or full time member.  He truly was a live concert fill in.

[D-GenerationX]

It's not a fact. Please. Your opinion that the music released since 2000 has been underwhelming is not a fact.

Never said a thing about the music itself.  You can't find one sentence about the music itself in any of that post.  Not a peep.

What you will find, is a description of how they have run their business.  And I stand by all of it, and would welcome any discussion from anyone that wanted to have it.

You don't seem to want to talk about that, and I don't blame you.  Its like being dealt 5 unmatched cards and being told you have to win a poker hand. I'd fold too.

Who wouldn't?

[Sosso]

Gilby was fired for saying less "passive aggressive" things

That's a good point.

Although, in rereading that Chinese Whispers site, I don't think many people are as aware that was as much Slash as Axl. Neither man really saw much potential in Gilby as a writer or full time member.  He truly was a live concert fill in.

And I don't doubt that. But both situations are not totally different. The main difference is that Ron stil uses GN'R sometimes to make his solo stuff more popular among possible new fans.

[D-GenerationX]

I always kind of liked Gliby.

I don't really know what he might have brought to the table songwriting wise, but he seemed like a good enough guitar player and good enough guy.

I guess I assumed he and Slash were tighter than I thought.

[JAEBALL]

I always kind of liked Gliby.

I don't really know what he might have brought to the table songwriting wise, but he seemed like a good enough guitar player and good enough guy.

I guess I assumed he and Slash were tighter than I thought.

You know what his biggest problem was ? He wasn't Izzy...

Izzy's song writing = the glue