Goodbye Ron (???)

[pilferk]

It's clearly not a band, bands write together in the same room and "jam" that cannot variate from my personal preference and definition.

Bands write, record, and release music.

Or, at least start to take a serious look at what they are doing in that regard.

Sorry, no.  That might be what you (we) want specific bands to do, but...it's not really what a band does.

Bands play music together.  Technically (and yes, we're playing the semantic game), that's it.

[JAEBALL]

I realize now I was late to game on this

of course he should expect to hear GNR questions... but if he was under the impression the guy was advised not to ask... then I certainly understand his frustration.

[pilferk]

No, I had the same reaction.  I'm just not sure how realistic that all is. 

When you played with one of the most famous people in rock for 8 years, its going to be brought up.  All due respect, anything he can tell you about Axl Rose or GNR is going to be far more interesting to far more people than anything about a solo album few will ever hear.

Oh, I agree...not realistic.

But when the first batch of questions were GNR and AOA related.....(and there WERE Ron-specific questions in there..not just Axl and Scott questions)...he got pissed, interjected his own "question" about his solo album, and bolted.

I'll tell you this: If he imposes the same "rules" to every interviewer, via his publicist.....he's going to get a lot fewer interview opportunities to promote his stuff.  Because Ron Thal's solo album, current release or not, isn't THE MOST INTERESTING topic, that's going to drive magazine buys or web hits.  It's just not.....

[pilferk]

I realize now I was late to game on this

of course he should expect to hear GNR questions... but if he was under the impression the guy was advised not to ask... then I certainly understand his frustration.

Sure. But it should be directed at your publicist.  Not the guy asking the questions.

[D-GenerationX]

Bands write, record, and release music.

Or, at least start to take a serious look at what they are doing in that regard.

Sorry, no.  That might be what you (we) want specific bands to do, but...it's not really what a band does.

Bands play music together.  Technically (and yes, we're playing the semantic game), that's it.

We sure are.

[pilferk]

Bands write, record, and release music.

Or, at least start to take a serious look at what they are doing in that regard.

Sorry, no.  That might be what you (we) want specific bands to do, but...it's not really what a band does.

Bands play music together.  Technically (and yes, we're playing the semantic game), that's it.

We sure are.

Yeah, but...it's no less a valid point because it's based on semantics.

There are TONS of bands that play live music together who don't write/record/release music.  At all levels of the "fame" spectrum. From the local dads Sunday garage band who plays a couple shows a year at the local dive bar to the "one hit wonder" rock band still touring on the laurels from the late 80's.

True?

They are still bands. 

Now, you can argue any one of those bands coulda, shoulda, woulda.....but they're all still bands.

GnR are still a band.  So we can drop that negative connotation pretty much straight away. It IS what they are.  If you're looking for an economy of language, here...it's just a poor one.

If you want to argue whether they are a commercially productive entity...that's different and have at it.

[D-GenerationX]

There are TONS of bands that play live music together who don't write/record/release music.  At all levels of the "fame" spectrum. From the local dads Sunday garage band who plays a couple shows a year at the local dive bar to the "one hit wonder" rock band still touring on the laurels from the late 80's.

True?

They are still bands.

Dude...seriously?

[pilferk]

Dude...seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Saying "GnR isn't a band"....I mean..are YOU serious? 

[jarmo]

Of course he's serious. He's a fan. Remember? 



/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

That is a big climb down though, from a band which released four original albums in their heyday, one of which is commonly regarded as one of the greatest albums of all time. In a semantic sense you are correct but, are you admitting that Guns have completely resigned themselves to being a 'golden oldies' act?

[D-GenerationX]

Dude...seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Saying "GnR isn't a band"....I mean..are YOU serious? 

I can't believe I'm having this conversation.

There is tapdancing around an inconvenient issue you'd rather not address.  That's one thing.  Taking it to completely absurd levels is quite another.

Any discussion of GNR is discussion of a (theoretically) professional operation.  Its a business at this level.  These are not 5 guys playing the corner bar for $50 a head and all the beer they can drink.  Not the same ballpark, not the same league, not even the same fuckin' sport, as a wise man from Inglewood once said.

Comparisons to guys in bars and one hit wonders from the 80s is laughable.  First off, since when is it an acceptable comparison to compare GNR to a nostalgia act touring off past laurels?  We have people here we need to peel off he fucking ceiling when those worlds are spoken.  Now you want to make them GNR's peers?

All to avoid having to address that this particular band doesn't have much productivity?  

[pilferk]

That is a big climb down though, from a band which released four original albums in their heyday, one of which is commonly regarded as one of the greatest albums of all time. In a semantic sense you are correct but, are you admitting that Guns have completely resigned themselves to being a 'golden oldies' act?

I'm not saying anything about their level of productivity.  I'll leave others to debate what they think should and shouldn't be an acceptable level of commercially released material to be considered a commercially successful entity.

I'm saying that saying, implying, or leaving to inference that GnR isn't a band is incorrect.

[mortismurphy]

If we changed the term to, 'signed band', would that help?

[GNR2014]

What's the problem? They released Chinese Democracy in 2008.
They just released a live album a few months ago... did any of you "fans" even buy it?
Next up is the second half of Chinese, and then the remix album.
That's 4 albums right there.
The band post-Slash has been just as productive as the classic-era formation.

[pilferk]

I can't believe I'm having this conversation.

There is tapdancing around an inconvenient issue you'd rather not address.  That's one thing.  Taking it to completely absurd levels is quite another.

I agree..you took it to an absurd level.  Thus, the discussion.

Any discussion of GNR is discussion of a (theoretically) professional operation.  Its a business at this level.  These are not 5 guys playing the corner bar for $50 a head and all the beer they can drink.  Not the same ballpark, not the same league, not even the same fuckin' sport, as a wise man from Inglewood once said.

Then properly label the point of discussion you're trying to make.

You can't say they're not a band.

You can't say they're not a professional band (they get paid to play music....thus professional).

You can argue their success as a business outfit (they seem profitable, though, based on their touring #'s).

You can argue their level of "prolificness" at which they release material.

Have at it.

You can't argue they aren't a band.  Don't make me pull a mortis and post the definition, here.  

Comparisons to guys in bars and one hit wonders from the 80s is laughable.  First off, since when is it an acceptable comparison to compare GNR to a nostalgia act touring off past laurels?  We have people here we need to peel off he fucking ceiling when those worlds are spoken.  Now you want to make them GNR's peers?

I'm not comparing them to anyone.  I'm giving you acceptable definitions of a band, and actually showing you that GnR far exceed them.

All to avoid having to address that this particular band doesn't have much productivity?  

I'm not making any such comparisons.  I'm giving you various definitions of bands that ignore commercial productivity. And demonstrating GnR exceeds them.

Just own up to the fact you were wrong...GnR is a band...and we're done.  Simple as that.

I'm also not avoiding.  The discussion in question is so old, and has been done for so long, I don't think there's much new to add to it.  I've said it before.....and I've taken a bent with my postings not to play "Lets repeat the same argument over and over again".

If YOU want to enter into that discussion, have at it. But beginning it with "GnR isn't a band"....you're jumping off point sucks. Because it's demonstrably untrue.

[pilferk]

If we changed the term to, 'signed band', would that help?

Nope. Plenty of those not actually making/writing/recording/publishing/releasing music, but still touring as a band (and they are signed to a label) too.

Recording artist might.

[mortismurphy]

What's the problem? They released Chinese Democracy in 2008.
They just released a live album a few months ago... did any of you "fans" even buy it?
Next up is the second half of Chinese, and then the remix album.
That's 4 albums right there.
The band post-Slash has been just as productive as the classic-era formation.

Lol.

We also have a boxset to look forward to, followed by a remastered appetite, followed by some archival dvds, that lost Del James documentry for example....

[pilferk]

What's the problem? They released Chinese Democracy in 2008.
They just released a live album a few months ago... did any of you "fans" even buy it?
Next up is the second half of Chinese, and then the remix album.
That's 4 albums right there.
The band post-Slash has been just as productive as the classic-era formation.

Twice.

Once just as the Blu-Ray (3D!!!) combo. And again to get the CD's.

[JAEBALL]

What's the problem? They released Chinese Democracy in 2008.
They just released a live album a few months ago... did any of you "fans" even buy it?
Next up is the second half of Chinese, and then the remix album.
That's 4 albums right there.
The band post-Slash has been just as productive as the classic-era formation.

Really? I understand not liking somebody stating they don't think this is a "band".. but really?

[mortismurphy]

If we changed the term to, 'signed band', would that help?

Nope. Plenty of those not actually making music, but still touring as a band (and they are signed to a label) too.

Recording artist might.

Fair enough. So are we accepting the fact that gnr are no longer 'recording artists'?