Goodbye Ron (???)

[D-GenerationX]

So putting everything available together, and totally leaping to my own completely speculative conclusion, it looks to me like Ron wanted to be more than a hired gun.  He played on CD, but it wasn't HIS music, and expected that he would have input on new music/next album. As DJ Dizzy and Fortus talked about writing and working with Axl, BBF's discontent started to show in his comments.  His sstatementsabout writing a song a month seemed aimed at Axl in some sort of passive agressive play to force productivity. I was holding out hope...the dude is great, and was a great fit...but its all too much, and I have moved into the "goodbye" camp.

Dude's only human. 

And that is hardly some out there, crazy position : I'd like the band I'm in to do stuff that involves me.

[Sosso]

Just because someone new becomes a band member it doesn't mean that all the songs the band had recorded before him shouldn't be used anymore. I think that Ron couldn't deal with that.

[jarmo]

And that is hardly some out there, crazy position : I'd like the band I'm in to do stuff that involves me.

But the way he wants it. Even though it's not the band does things.
That's been the one thing he kept going on and on about. How the band didn't sit together in a room writing songs.

Ironically, that's not how his super group recorded and wrote their album either.... The singer did his parts on the opposite coast of the country.

It's somewhat telling that once he had a bigger chance of doing things his way in a band setting, they still didn't go for it.
You're telling the whole world how GN'R should do things, but then your super group does the opposite? 




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Just because someone new becomes a band member it doesn't mean that all the songs the band had recorded before him shouldn't be used anymore. I think that Ron couldn't deal with that.

Very true.

But I think going into this, he knew he had to wait out at least one more album before he had any hopes of getting some of his own stuff in the mix.

But 7 years into the adventure, the only thing they have released is the stuff that was largely done before he even arrived on the scene.  And where are we on the next one?

I assume he's have rolled with CD II (or whatever it might be called) coming out in like 2012 and then maybe a new effort by the current band 5 years or so after.

But he couldn't roll with this.

[D-GenerationX]

But the way he wants it. Even though it's not the band does things.
That's been the one thing he kept going on and on about. How the band didn't sit together in a room writing songs.

Ironically, that's not how his super group recorded and wrote their album either.... The singer did his parts on the opposite coast of the country.

It's somewhat telling that once he had a bigger chance of doing things his way in a band setting, they still didn't go for it.
You're telling the whole world how GN'R should do things, but then your super group does the opposite? 

I just don't think he sees much in the way of progress.

By any objective standard, he's right.  There will always be qualifiers, but if you are going to say he left because things weren't moving, its hard to argue they were.

A lot of people make all sorts unreasonable demands in this business.  "Hey, how come we never seem to do anything?" is not really one of them though.

Saying that things don't have be done is some traditional way is fine...if they still get done.  If nothing ever happens, quibbling about the process is meaningless.  You have no results.  It should be done this way vs. no, it can be done this way, etc.  Who cares?  Nothing is ever done any damn way.

[EmilyGNR]

But the way he wants it. Even though it's not the band does things.
That's been the one thing he kept going on and on about. How the band didn't sit together in a room writing songs.

Ironically, that's not how his super group recorded and wrote their album either.... The singer did his parts on the opposite coast of the country.

It's somewhat telling that once he had a bigger chance of doing things his way in a band setting, they still didn't go for it.
You're telling the whole world how GN'R should do things, but then your super group does the opposite? 

I just don't think he sees much in the way of progress.

By any objective standard, he's right.  There will always be qualifiers, but if you are going to say he left because things weren't moving, its hard to argue they were.

A lot of people make all sorts unreasonable demands in this business.  "Hey, how come we never seem to do anything?" is not really one of them though.

Saying that things don't have be done is some traditional way is fine...if they still get done.  If nothing ever happens, quibbling about the process is meaningless.  You have no results.  It should be done this way vs. no, it can be done this way, etc.  Who cares?  Nothing is ever done any damn way.

Who said he left because things weren't moving?

It is silly and entitled to assume nothing is going on or getting done simply because you have no information. 

[jarmo]

I just don't think he sees much in the way of progress.

He knew the deal. He knew there were material that was recoded before he joined. If he wasn't aware of how the process works, maybe he could've asked somebody in the band before talking about how GN'R doesn't sit together and write?

In reality, who joins a bigger band and expects them to change to their liking?




/jarmo

[mortismurphy]

Are you assuming that Ron would have still been as unhappy with Guns N' Roses if, CD2 came out with Buckethead/Finck era songwriting credits? I think Ron's most overriding complaint was, nothing happens on the new material front, old or new. Also, if enough of the Bucket era material were released that would logically make a clean sweep of the vault, making room for new songwriting with Bumblefoot. I am sure he was aware of that fact.

[D-GenerationX]

Who said he left because things weren't moving?

It is silly and entitled to assume nothing is going on or getting done simply because you have no information. 

If you want to make the argument that he left because everything was humming along nicely, you are free to do so.

I couldn't do it with a straight face.  Perhaps you can.

[jarmo]

I think there's more to the picture than just "nothing happens".

Richard mentioned in an Q&A last year that he had worked with Dj on something, but that nobody had worked with Ron.
So it seems like things did happen, but he wasn't involved. For whatever reason.

Ron even mentioned in some interview in 2013 that they had hoped to work on something, but then he left for one of his solo tours.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

He knew the deal. He knew there were material that was recoded before he joined. If he wasn't aware of how the process works, maybe he could've asked somebody in the band before talking about how GN'R doesn't sit together and write?

In reality, who joins a bigger band and expects them to change to their liking?

You are really hung up on that sitting together in a room and writing part of this, as if that's the point.

If these guys were simply e-mailing each other stuff, sending it by carrier pigeon, fuckin' smoke signals...whatever.  If an album still came out, you are saying he would be THAT concerned with the process?

He's concerned because there is no progress, and that's cause...there ain't.  There is literally no point in talking about the various ways it can be accomplished when the reality is that nothing gets accomplished.  Sitting at the piano like Lennon or McCartney, or sending tapes to each other across the country.  Who cares?  Regardless of process, there are no results.

[D-GenerationX]

Are you assuming that Ron would have still been as unhappy with Guns N' Roses if, CD2 came out with Buckethead/Finck era songwriting credits? I think Ron's most overriding complaint was, nothing happens on the new material front, old or new. Also, if enough of the Bucket era material were released that would logically make a clean sweep of the vault, making room for new songwriting with Bumblefoot. I am sure he was aware of that fact.

Agreed.

He knew he's have to wait out at least one more album from the CD sessions.  7 years later, the best he can get is that they are seriously starting to take a look at what they are doing in that regard.

Considering all past history, even right now, today, he is *best case* looking at a new album of new material he'd be involved in creating in 5-7 years.  And that's if the next album came out tomorrow, which its not.

[D-GenerationX]

I think there's more to the picture than just "nothing happens".

I think this would have validity if the album did come out this year.

Then, it would be a like a Robin type situation.  You would ask Ron why he stayed so long, they bolted so close to the end of the line.

But if nothing comes out this year (or hell, even next) I think that argument dies.  You would say Ron left in 2014 because he knew things were still years away, and as it turned out, he was right.

At that point, it becomes the Buckethead argument.  He left in 2004 because he saw no finish line in sight, and he was right.

[jarmo]

You are really hung up on that sitting together in a room and writing part of this, as if that's the point.

I do recall reading those comments about how they hadn't done it.

He's concerned because there is no progress, and that's cause...there ain't.  There is literally no point in talking about the various ways it can be accomplished when the reality is that nothing gets accomplished.  Sitting at the piano like Lennon or McCartney, or sending tapes to each other across the country.  Who cares?  Regardless of process, there are no results.

Do you believe what you type?

The guy himself knows stuff has been recorded that remains unreleased. Talking about not writing together, hoping to write together, whatever. It doesn't change the fact that stuff exists that's yet to be released.
So bringing that kind of stuff up in interviews, what's the point? Unless you're hoping to change something by making it a public thing. But that's not necessarily how to change things. Considering it's not your band and there are other people involved.

Do you honestly think this is the issue? And why is it an issue? He has a solo career. He can make all the albums he wants as a solo artist. If he misses song writing, that whole creating a song from nothing thing, he has all kinds of opportunities to do so as a solo artist or with whoever pays him. Why is it an issue that GN'R doesn't go out of their way to allow him to write with them? This is an issue with GN'R? Why? It's not enough to be the guitar player and play in front of thousands of people every night all over the world?


Anyway, I'm glad he has found progress and released his solo album where he could do everything to his liking. I hope you're enjoying it.


Edited to add: Your comparisons between former members to this is faulty. One happened at a time when nothing was happening, the other happened twice when another band called. In this situation, the band has toured around the world and been active for years.



By the way, I thought you said you took the weekends off. 





/jarmo


 

[D-GenerationX]

By the way, I thought you said you took the weekends off. 

Sometimes, you get lucky.

I agree with you that I think Ron's tactics were ill conceived.  They weren't going to change anything.  His fault lies in the fact he went it to an openly known dysfunctional situation, and is now expressing surprise things are dysfunctional. 

Pretty disingenuous gripe, if you ask me.

[jarmo]

There's guys in the band who have been there longer than him and yet he's the only one doing this kind of thing.
Does that mean nobody else would hope there would be have been more music out by now? Of course not.





/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I would agree with that.

Ron took a shot at the big time.  Made some loot, got some exposure. 

I think both sides made out alright, really.

[mortismurphy]

Ron is the only honest outspoken member of that band. To be a new gnr member you have to, clam up and shut up. You have to adopt their politics.

[EmilyGNR]

Ron is the only honest outspoken member of that band. To be a new gnr member you have to, clam up and shut up. You have to adopt their politics.

That is your delusion talking. You have zero inside knowledge about the band, you just like to whine.

Nothing wrong with being loyal to your band, loyalty is a commendable and seemingly rare quality in people.

[mortismurphy]

He is the only member who treats the fanbase with decency. Stand up guy.