Goodbye Ron (???)

[D-GenerationX]

Because then you announce there's a problem without a solution to it.

Like: The refrigerator is broken so all your food is now spoiled.
But if you say: The fridge broke, we replaced it and nothing was spoiled. Then you've addressed it and fixed it.

That's a ridiculous analogy.  When they replace the refrigerator in a year or whatever and announce it, the food will have spoiled.

On the other hand, its a decent analogy when you consider that they are dating their material by sitting on it for years at a time.

[D-GenerationX]

And you think GNR fans would shit on this move?  I don't.

Of course. Track record. But then again, I'm using the phrase GN'R fans were liberally here.

If there's no release date or update on the album for everybody's liking, there'll be lots of this:   from certain so called fans.

Woe is Jarmo.  Woe is GNR.  Woe is everything.

It's such a cruel world we live in.

[D-GenerationX]

I assume near everyone here is in both camps.  I can only think of literally a few that are not.

There are also "old fans" who developed deep attachment to players from CD... I am not one of them... Robin would be my favorite of the group tho.

But as many of said, even yourself earlier today, its a collective shoulder shrug when any of them leave.  That sort of undercuts the argument there is this great attachment.

When Slash left, literally hundreds of thousands of fans left.  Who left over Robin?

[jarmo]

On the other hand, its a decent analogy when you consider that they are dating their material by sitting on it for years at a time.

At least it's not from the 1970s (hello Van Halen!).



I have very little faith that the vocal minority who spend their time whining about a band they claim to like will do a happy dance if the band announced a guitarist had left. I don't see these people as the kind who are happy about getting an update, more about whining and Bungholio2000 trying to impress his pals Cletus and MyParentsGaveMeAComputer.




/jarmo

[TheBaconman]

I'm quite sure he meant that people outside the forums for the most part do not care who is in the current band if it's not Slash and Duff... who is in their stead does not matter  ... they go to the shows to see Axl Rose sing Guns n Roses songs.

Because... people like Axl Rose a lot...

Exactly.

I don't agree with this at all.  Just two quick points I will make

1). The unwashed masses/mainstream people still care quiet a big what Axl is doing and then just by default they care about what guns n roses are doing....   Like you have said, if Axl was to pick u the phone and do a rolling stone interview.  He would instantly be on the cover.  People would read  

2).  As per the mainstream not caring about the band members now......   Mb that's true for some of the members, but look at the established fan base DJ has.   I ahave been at concerts were people have been there just to see him!!   Just the run GNR gets from his fan base makes him being in the band worth it.  Other band members have other bands they play in that also have a great fan base.  Look at tommy in the replaments...   People care about him

Bonus point round

3). Also some of guns n roses biggest fan bases are in developing/third world countries.  Or just countries that the Internet is availbable everywhere.   To say that the only people that care about this band are on the Internet is complete garbage   When a large magority of there fans probably don't even have the Internet

I think you are missing the point that... if Dj and or Tommy get replaced tomorrow... the same people are still going to pay to see Axl Rose play... no matter who the new guys are.

Not saying there are not people who don't like those individuals.

I see that point but do not agree with it

Now if DJ was to leave the band.  Those people that I ran into at a guns n roses show just to see DJ would not be there at a guns show if DJ left.   Or mb since they had such a good time at the show they would be a show without him in the future....  but, they never would of been there in the first place.  If it was not for him

Now if guns can't bring back one of the older guy to two over guitar duties.  There next bet for success would be to get a guy with an established fan base like a Dj etc....    Guns gets the run of bringing in new fans.  And if guns does a good enough job, they may just make some new fans and keep them

With all due respect... does he really have that big of a following?  How many people go to a GNR show because they are a fan of ONLY him?

I am sure you met a few at ur show... but let's be real.

I was shocked by the amount of pure DJ fans I have met   

A coworker of mine, came on a road trip with me a few years ago to see gnr.  Just because he was a fan of DJ.   

So these fans are out there......   

Now would anyone bat an eye if Frank was to leave the band and we got another drummer again....   Doubt it.  Same with a few other players in the band.   However, that whats makes DJ that more popular.

[D-GenerationX]

On the other hand, its a decent analogy when you consider that they are dating their material by sitting on it for years at a time.

At least it's not from the 1970s (hello Van Halen!).

I kind of liked that album.  Though I appeared to be in the pretty serious minority.

I looked at it basically the same way I do any future GNR release.  Even if recorded many moons ago, still new to me.  And if it sounds good, who cares?

I have very little faith that the vocal minority who spend their time whining about a band they claim to like will do a happy dance if the band announced a guitarist had left.

I think they'd be applauded for stepping up as competent management for the first time in, well....give me a sec on that.  I'll need to consult some notes.

[TheBaconman]

I assume near everyone here is in both camps.  I can only think of literally a few that are not.

There are also "old fans" who developed deep attachment to players from CD... I am not one of them... Robin would be my favorite of the group tho.

But as many of said, even yourself earlier today, its a collective shoulder shrug when any of them leave.  That sort of undercuts the argument there is this great attachment.

When Slash left, literally hundreds of thousands of fans left.  Who left over Robin?

I could argue that no fans of gnr left when slash left.  

I think the mainstream fans had already left   Slash leaving did nothing to sway the needle

Examples of this are

Record sales where already down with slash either in the band or just leaving   Tsi and the live era cd are example

When Axl debuted the new band at Rock in rio the place was a massive sell out crowd.   Who didn't show up there because slash wasn't there

The arenas played in the us in 2002 were not sold out and about half full in some areas.   Even with slash in the band the arena would have been the exact same.  

Now if slash was to come back now, crowds would be huge.  With the right type of marketing.  

So in short.  The fans had already left before slash, but are willing to come back now

Shit ac/dc tickets just went on sale here in edmonton for a summer concert at an outdoor stadium.  50000 tickets sold in 45 mins.  

There is crazy demand right now for rock music    If it is marketed right

[D-GenerationX]

I could argue that no fans of gnr left when slash left.

Not credibly.  Be serious.

Let's have a gander at this here list :

Record sales where already down with slash either in the band or just leaving   Tsi and the live era cd are example

A cover album released at the height of grunge, and a live album released after Slash was already out and people moved on.

When Axl debuted the new band at Rock in rio the place was a massive sell out crowd.   Who didn't show up there because slash wasn't there

Fesitval crowd.  The same number of people would have been there if GNR was not even on the bill.

The arenas played in the us in 2002 were not sold out and about half full in some areas.   Even with slash in the band the arena would have been the exact same.

All speculation, obviously.  But if I had to bet a significant amount of money I would not want to lose, it would be on an Axl/Slash/Duff GNR selling tickets just fine.

[JAEBALL]

I assume near everyone here is in both camps.  I can only think of literally a few that are not.

There are also "old fans" who developed deep attachment to players from CD... I am not one of them... Robin would be my favorite of the group tho.

But as many of said, even yourself earlier today, its a collective shoulder shrug when any of them leave.  That sort of undercuts the argument there is this great attachment.

When Slash left, literally hundreds of thousands of fans left.  Who left over Robin?

I could argue that no fans of gnr left when slash left.  

I think the mainstream fans had already left   Slash leaving did nothing to sway the needle

Examples of this are

Record sales where already down with slash either in the band or just leaving   Tsi and the live era cd are example

When Axl debuted the new band at Rock in rio the place was a massive sell out crowd.   Who didn't show up there because slash wasn't there

The arenas played in the us in 2002 were not sold out and about half full in some areas.   Even with slash in the band the arena would have been the exact same.  

Now if slash was to come back now, crowds would be huge.  With the right type of marketing.  

So in short.  The fans had already left before slash, but are willing to come back now

Shit ac/dc tickets just went on sale here in edmonton for a summer concert at an outdoor stadium.  50000 tickets sold in 45 mins.  

There is crazy demand right now for rock music    If it is marketed right

I could not disagree more lol... particularly how the half full arenas in 2002 would have been half full with Slash in the band...

maybe you know something I don't

[EmilyGNR]

I'm quite sure he meant that people outside the forums for the most part do not care who is in the current band if it's not Slash and Duff... who is in their stead does not matter  ... they go to the shows to see Axl Rose sing Guns n Roses songs.

Because... people like Axl Rose a lot...

Still playing cheerleader? And now you have an additional job as DGX's translator, super!

He speaks fluent haterese and faux expertese, not sure a translator is necessary.

[EmilyGNR]

And you think GNR fans would shit on this move?  I don't.

Of course. Track record. But then again, I'm using the phrase GN'R fans were liberally here.

If there's no release date or update on the album for everybody's liking, there'll be lots of this:   from certain so called fans.

Woe is Jarmo.  Woe is GNR.  Woe is everything.

It's such a cruel world we live in.

Jarmo isn't the one constantly complaining and whining about all things GNR, that would be you- 

[TheBaconman]

I assume near everyone here is in both camps.  I can only think of literally a few that are not.

There are also "old fans" who developed deep attachment to players from CD... I am not one of them... Robin would be my favorite of the group tho.

But as many of said, even yourself earlier today, its a collective shoulder shrug when any of them leave.  That sort of undercuts the argument there is this great attachment.

When Slash left, literally hundreds of thousands of fans left.  Who left over Robin?

I could argue that no fans of gnr left when slash left.  

I think the mainstream fans had already left   Slash leaving did nothing to sway the needle

Examples of this are

Record sales where already down with slash either in the band or just leaving   Tsi and the live era cd are example

When Axl debuted the new band at Rock in rio the place was a massive sell out crowd.   Who didn't show up there because slash wasn't there

The arenas played in the us in 2002 were not sold out and about half full in some areas.   Even with slash in the band the arena would have been the exact same.  

Now if slash was to come back now, crowds would be huge.  With the right type of marketing.  

So in short.  The fans had already left before slash, but are willing to come back now

Shit ac/dc tickets just went on sale here in edmonton for a summer concert at an outdoor stadium.  50000 tickets sold in 45 mins.  

There is crazy demand right now for rock music    If it is marketed right

I could not disagree more lol... particularly how the half full arenas in 2002 would have been half full with Slash in the band...

maybe you know something I don't

Hahaa well this is a tough point for me to defend.  

I truely think the mainstream fans had already left the band while slash was in it

It took slash years to re-establish his carreer and build the slash brand.

Snake pit albums were not setting the world on fire in sales and he was not playing large concerts

So let's play the game slash is still in the band.  

They release a album in 1996 that is mostly slash songs

I say the album would sell around what CD sold.   Probably even less...    Unless there was a hit written song

If no hit was written the mainstream public was burnt out from being guns fans    The interest had moved on to other thinhs and different types of music

[EmilyGNR]

I'm quite sure he meant that people outside the forums for the most part do not care who is in the current band if it's not Slash and Duff... who is in their stead does not matter  ... they go to the shows to see Axl Rose sing Guns n Roses songs.

Because... people like Axl Rose a lot...

Exactly.

I don't agree with this at all.  Just two quick points I will make

1). The unwashed masses/mainstream people still care quiet a big what Axl is doing and then just by default they care about what guns n roses are doing....   Like you have said, if Axl was to pick u the phone and do a rolling stone interview.  He would instantly be on the cover.  People would read  

2).  As per the mainstream not caring about the band members now......   Mb that's true for some of the members, but look at the established fan base DJ has.   I ahave been at concerts were people have been there just to see him!!   Just the run GNR gets from his fan base makes him being in the band worth it.  Other band members have other bands they play in that also have a great fan base.  Look at tommy in the replaments...   People care about him

Bonus point round

3). Also some of guns n roses biggest fan bases are in developing/third world countries.  Or just countries that the Internet is availbable everywhere.   To say that the only people that care about this band are on the Internet is complete garbage   When a large magority of there fans probably don't even have the Internet

I think you are missing the point that... if Dj and or Tommy get replaced tomorrow... the same people are still going to pay to see Axl Rose play... no matter who the new guys are.

Not saying there are not people who don't like those individuals.

I see that point but do not agree with it

Now if DJ was to leave the band.  Those people that I ran into at a guns n roses show just to see DJ would not be there at a guns show if DJ left.   Or mb since they had such a good time at the show they would be a show without him in the future....  but, they never would of been there in the first place.  If it was not for him

Now if guns can't bring back one of the older guy to two over guitar duties.  There next bet for success would be to get a guy with an established fan base like a Dj etc....    Guns gets the run of bringing in new fans.  And if guns does a good enough job, they may just make some new fans and keep them

With all due respect... does he really have that big of a following?  How many people go to a GNR show because they are a fan of ONLY him?

I am sure you met a few at ur show... but let's be real.

I was shocked by the amount of pure DJ fans I have met   

A coworker of mine, came on a road trip with me a few years ago to see gnr.  Just because he was a fan of DJ.   

So these fans are out there......   

Now would anyone bat an eye if Frank was to leave the band and we got another drummer again....   Doubt it.  Same with a few other players in the band.   However, that whats makes DJ that more popular.

You are right, I have overheard many people post-show making great comments about how impressed they were with DJ, and he has a wonderful attitude.

[JAEBALL]

I'm quite sure he meant that people outside the forums for the most part do not care who is in the current band if it's not Slash and Duff... who is in their stead does not matter  ... they go to the shows to see Axl Rose sing Guns n Roses songs.

Because... people like Axl Rose a lot...

Still playing cheerleader? And now you have an additional job as DGX's translator, super!

He speaks fluent haterese and faux expertese, not sure a translator is necessary.

Well if you are going to jump down anybodys throat and be wrong about it... I will point it out.. whether it's him or anybody else...

I have nothing against you'r opinions .. it's ur bullshit online persona that copies and pastes the same attacks that nobody likes.

And how about this... even if I agree with DX ... i admit I think he repeats the same gripes over and over just for the hell of it.. which isn't good. But I have never seen him go after you personally or any other poster... have some class ... for once.

[JAEBALL]

I assume near everyone here is in both camps.  I can only think of literally a few that are not.

There are also "old fans" who developed deep attachment to players from CD... I am not one of them... Robin would be my favorite of the group tho.

But as many of said, even yourself earlier today, its a collective shoulder shrug when any of them leave.  That sort of undercuts the argument there is this great attachment.

When Slash left, literally hundreds of thousands of fans left.  Who left over Robin?

I could argue that no fans of gnr left when slash left.  

I think the mainstream fans had already left   Slash leaving did nothing to sway the needle

Examples of this are

Record sales where already down with slash either in the band or just leaving   Tsi and the live era cd are example

When Axl debuted the new band at Rock in rio the place was a massive sell out crowd.   Who didn't show up there because slash wasn't there

The arenas played in the us in 2002 were not sold out and about half full in some areas.   Even with slash in the band the arena would have been the exact same.  

Now if slash was to come back now, crowds would be huge.  With the right type of marketing.  

So in short.  The fans had already left before slash, but are willing to come back now

Shit ac/dc tickets just went on sale here in edmonton for a summer concert at an outdoor stadium.  50000 tickets sold in 45 mins.  

There is crazy demand right now for rock music    If it is marketed right

I could not disagree more lol... particularly how the half full arenas in 2002 would have been half full with Slash in the band...

maybe you know something I don't

Hahaa well this is a tough point for me to defend.  

I truely think the mainstream fans had already left the band while slash was in it

It took slash years to re-establish his carreer and build the slash brand.

Snake pit albums were not setting the world on fire in sales and he was not playing large concerts

So let's play the game slash is still in the band.  

They release a album in 1996 that is mostly slash songs

I say the album would sell around what CD sold.   Probably even less...    Unless there was a hit written song

If no hit was written the mainstream public was burnt out from being guns fans    The interest had moved on to other thinhs and different types of music

Hahaha it's cool... Bacon... i agree that a GNR record with slash wouldn't necessarily outsell CD... but as far as touring... I believe they would sell out any bball arenas anywhere throughout the years.. Can I prove that? No... but I think its definitely closer to a sell out than half full! haha

[TheBaconman]

I assume near everyone here is in both camps.  I can only think of literally a few that are not.

There are also "old fans" who developed deep attachment to players from CD... I am not one of them... Robin would be my favorite of the group tho.

But as many of said, even yourself earlier today, its a collective shoulder shrug when any of them leave.  That sort of undercuts the argument there is this great attachment.

When Slash left, literally hundreds of thousands of fans left.  Who left over Robin?

I could argue that no fans of gnr left when slash left.  

I think the mainstream fans had already left   Slash leaving did nothing to sway the needle

Examples of this are

Record sales where already down with slash either in the band or just leaving   Tsi and the live era cd are example

When Axl debuted the new band at Rock in rio the place was a massive sell out crowd.   Who didn't show up there because slash wasn't there

The arenas played in the us in 2002 were not sold out and about half full in some areas.   Even with slash in the band the arena would have been the exact same.  

Now if slash was to come back now, crowds would be huge.  With the right type of marketing.  

So in short.  The fans had already left before slash, but are willing to come back now

Shit ac/dc tickets just went on sale here in edmonton for a summer concert at an outdoor stadium.  50000 tickets sold in 45 mins.  

There is crazy demand right now for rock music    If it is marketed right

I could not disagree more lol... particularly how the half full arenas in 2002 would have been half full with Slash in the band...

maybe you know something I don't

Hahaa well this is a tough point for me to defend.  

I truely think the mainstream fans had already left the band while slash was in it

It took slash years to re-establish his carreer and build the slash brand.

Snake pit albums were not setting the world on fire in sales and he was not playing large concerts

So let's play the game slash is still in the band.  

They release a album in 1996 that is mostly slash songs

I say the album would sell around what CD sold.   Probably even less...    Unless there was a hit written song

If no hit was written the mainstream public was burnt out from being guns fans    The interest had moved on to other thinhs and different types of music

Hahaha it's cool... Bacon... i agree that a GNR record with slash wouldn't necessarily outsell CD... but as far as touring... I believe they would sell out any bball arenas anywhere throughout the years.. Can I prove that? No... but I think its definitely closer to a sell out than half full! haha

Haha it's really hard to debate an opinion..... 

Last thing I will say on it is guns today, with slash would sell out arenas mb even stadiums with the right marketing

Guns in roses with slash in 1996 or 2002, without any recents hits, would play to concerts the exact size that guns did play to in 2002


It would be in guns best interest to announce plans to either hire a new guitar player now or announce a search for one or anounce that ron is still in the band.

It would be good for the fans as well.  Go forbid we get to actually bond with a member of the band.  Get to read up on them and get emotionally invested in someone in the band.  So when if that person does eventually go there own way, there just isn't a nation wide shrug of the shoulders.   There could be an outcry from the fans that are invested in a certain player.   

[JAEBALL]

and another thing... I don't always agree with Jarmo.. and I don't really look to debate with him either.. because it's his site and he is never going to say anything to put a negative light on the band.. even if he did think they were in the wrong

but he's not an asshole... and I have stated that on other sites... that he seems to be a really good loyal guy, and that I appreciate his efforts with this site and I see why Axl values him


so even tho you latch on to his every word and opinion.. the difference in approach is a football field long

[D-GenerationX]

And how about this... even if I agree with DX ... i admit I think he repeats the same gripes over and over just for the hell of it.. which isn't good. But I have never seen him go after you personally or any other poster... have some class ... for once.

Its poor form, in my opinion.

I think you look like a child when you go down that road.  It also makes it easier to dismiss a legit point you may have buried between pissy little personal shots.

I also see it as a huge tell.  The minute it becomes about you the poster and not the original disagreement, you've beaten them, for the most part.  It's all over but the shouting.

[EmilyGNR]

I'm quite sure he meant that people outside the forums for the most part do not care who is in the current band if it's not Slash and Duff... who is in their stead does not matter  ... they go to the shows to see Axl Rose sing Guns n Roses songs.

Because... people like Axl Rose a lot...

Still playing cheerleader? And now you have an additional job as DGX's translator, super!

He speaks fluent haterese and faux expertese, not sure a translator is necessary.

Well if you are going to jump down anybodys throat and be wrong about it... I will point it out.. whether it's him or anybody else...

I have nothing against you'r opinions .. it's ur bullshit online persona that copies and pastes the same attacks that nobody likes.

And how about this... even if I agree with DX ... i admit I think he repeats the same gripes over and over just for the hell of it.. which isn't good. But I have never seen him go after you personally or any other poster... have some class ... for once.

Gee, and I was only here to impress you, the perpetual little cheerleader 

I'm here for GNR, and seeing Jarmo ripping the idiots a new one everyday is always great.

[jarmo]

Woe is Jarmo.  Woe is GNR.  Woe is everything.

It's such a cruel world we live in.

No. But I got this so called track record to look back on.
Your usual response. Instead of admitting the fact, you try to ridicule it.

I think they'd be applauded for stepping up as competent management for the first time in, well....give me a sec on that.  I'll need to consult some notes.

Did these same people give credit for the interviews, the concert movie or any of the shows?

I'm not talking about the majority, I'm talking about the whiny minority who are more concerned about "looking cool" than actually enjoying something.



/jarmo