Goodbye Ron (???)

[D-GenerationX]

I like everything Ron did on the album except 'Catcher'.

It's just a god damn mess.

[mortismurphy]

I favour a 2001 or 02 release for CD, after the Rio 3 hype, keeping Buckethead in the band. I honestly do not know what happened in those years, 2003-05. What a waste.

I am not sure I am following today's battle.....

Leaks.... former members.... the label..... former managers.......

Up until 2007 when by all accounts the label was being particularly difficult with the release....

does anybody who follows this actually think the time it took to release the record was anything but Axl being on Axl time?

The record was ready when Axl was ready... (again.. 'til 2007)

And the same will go for this next record... whatever it's called. I don't grasp how any leak would ever dictate how quick or slow the album came after the leak.

Well yes, but if you have demos and choose to sit on them for seven-eight years, you should not be surprised when they start leaking out.

[jarmo]

Kinda pointless to try to introduce a certain idea into a discussion when the best "comeback" is, it didn't happen in the past.
The original post was about getting annoyed regarding a leak. But that was twisted into something more convenient. Critical reception and whatnot. Wasn't the point to begin with.

Was that worth the delay?

I say nope.   

Another assumption. Show me the proof that the album was delayed because those guys recorded their parts in 2006-7.
The recording for the album was completed in early 2007. It came out in 2008.





/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Another assumption. Show me the proof that the album was delayed because those guys recorded their parts in 2006-7.
The recording for the album was completed in early 2007. It came out in 2008.

Well, I can't show you proof of a hypothetical situation in the past tense.  But stay with me here.

The clock is ticking once those leaks come out.  The leaks don't sound all *that* different than the stuff we eventually got years later.

But, Bucket has left and now you have Ron.  You ant to get Ron on there to give the illusion of collaboration.  Thus, you not only don't double your efforts to get it out, you've now made a decision to further delay.

It's an iffy move anyway.  But then when viewed in terms of the leaks versus finished products...what that worth 2 more years?  Don't know.  Hard to argue though.

***Disclaimer : Though a world renowned expert on how the music business works, DX makes no claims of being an artist, and, as such, is not passing any sort of judgment of artistic merit of the songs found on, but not limited to, the album 'Chinese Democracy' and all subsequent sessions and leaks, authorized or unauthorized.***

[jarmo]

Your assumption is valid if you see things in a linear way like this:
Recording of album is 100% finished -> BBF & Frank adds parts = delay -> negotiations with label begins -> release

BUT! If that wasn't the case and they added their parts WHILE there were still issues that needed to be fixed, then your assumption is faulty.
Axl wanted the album out in March 2007. He said so in December 2006. Bumblefoot recorded parts in January 2007. This was all in Axl's letter. He didn't say "Oh, we'll record some additional drums and guitar, so it'll be out  in 2008".

The record is done in early 2007 and then "delayed" so they can add parts that were already done? 
Makes no sense.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I'm more arguing you might have finished it in 2006 without Ron and Frank.

Whatever time it took, I'm saying cut off that time.

[TheBaconman]

Your assumption is valid if you see things in a linear way like this:
Recording of album is 100% finished -> BBF & Frank adds parts = delay -> negotiations with label begins -> release

BUT! If that wasn't the case and they added their parts WHILE there were still issues that needed to be fixed, then your assumption is faulty.
Axl wanted the album out in March 2007. He said so in December 2006. Bumblefoot recorded parts in January 2007. This was all in Axl's letter. He didn't say "Oh, we'll record some additional drums and guitar, so it'll be out  in 2008".

The record is done in early 2007 and then "delayed" so they can add parts that were already done? 
Makes no sense.



/jarmo

Your right its all assumptions. But thats not bad

Question though.  If bucket never left and brain never stayed home.  Would the album have come out sooner?   Would Axl brought in another guitar player to add more layers?  Or asked bucket to add more parts?  Or just release it as is

I think he would of just released it as is.  If the line up was steady.   Just a guess though

[mortismurphy]

The album was done when Axl said so. Don't you people realise that? Axl first had to annoy Buckethead enough for him to quit, replacing him with a guitarist who fitted his original vision - which, coincidentally turned out to be BF - to complete his magnum opus. Everything happened as originally planned in 1999.

[TheBaconman]

The album was done when Axl said so. Don't you people realise that? Axl first had to annoy Buckethead enough for him to quit, replacing him with a guitarist who fitted his original vision - which, coincidentally turned out to be BF - to complete his magnum opus. Everything happened as originally planned in 1999.

I just hope with the new guitar player they get to replace Ron, if he is out. Doesnt come in and start his over dubs like Ron did.  Sometimes enough is enough and just get it out there.   

Songs evolve over time.  They are not supposed to evolve before being released!   Tweek them and play them different live when new people are playing them.  Release them when they are done! 

And no I dont want to start another argument about what "done" means

[gunnersince94]

I'm more arguing you might have finished it in 2006 without Ron and Frank.

Whatever time it took, I'm saying cut off that time.

Well Axl is a very talented frontman but he can't just go back in time and release Chinese Democracy in 2001.

The album was released in 2008. It's a great record. Period.

[jarmo]

I'm more arguing you might have finished it in 2006 without Ron and Frank.

Whatever time it took, I'm saying cut off that time.

I think they added their parts once they realized the plan for 2006 wasn't possible. I don't believe that it delayed the album at all.



/jarmo

[GNR2014]

February 22, 2007

Del James has posted the following regarding Guns N' Roses' long awaited Chinese Democracy.

"The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed. Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt.

There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along."

[sky dog]

An album isn't "done" until it is mixed and mastered. Just sayin'....I believe the album was mastered in October 2008. 

[D-GenerationX]

I'm more arguing you might have finished it in 2006 without Ron and Frank.

Whatever time it took, I'm saying cut off that time.

Well Axl is a very talented frontman but he can't just go back in time and release Chinese Democracy in 2001.

The album was released in 2008. It's a great record. Period.

If Axl could go back in time, releasing Chinese Democracy in 2001 is not the first thing I would hope he did.

[D-GenerationX]

I'm more arguing you might have finished it in 2006 without Ron and Frank.

Whatever time it took, I'm saying cut off that time.

I think they added their parts once they realized the plan for 2006 wasn't possible. I don't believe that it delayed the album at all.

Well, then that's different.

[D-GenerationX]

February 22, 2007

Del James has posted the following regarding Guns N' Roses' long awaited Chinese Democracy.

"The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed. Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt.

There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along."

Yeah, seamless as a bad toupee.

[TheBaconman]

I'm more arguing you might have finished it in 2006 without Ron and Frank.

Whatever time it took, I'm saying cut off that time.

I think they added their parts once they realized the plan for 2006 wasn't possible. I don't believe that it delayed the album at all.



/jarmo

Ya I hope this was the case. 

[GNR2014]

Straight from the horse's mouth, Del said it right there ^ "There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing"

[EmilyGNR]

I'm more arguing you might have finished it in 2006 without Ron and Frank.

Whatever time it took, I'm saying cut off that time.

Well Axl is a very talented frontman but he can't just go back in time and release Chinese Democracy in 2001.

The album was released in 2008. It's a great record. Period.

This, end of subject. Time travel the last I heard was empirically impossible yet some seemingly fault GNR for not finding a way around this.

They are so mistreated by GNR, poor them.

[jarmo]

Straight from the horse's mouth, Del said it right there ^ "There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing"

Exactly. There's no evidence to back up the notion that the album was delayed because of the additional recording that was done in January 2007.



/jarmo