Goodbye Ron (???)

[jarmo]

The only time I saw Axl caring about bands issues was during the 1989 RS shows. But beyond that public rant to get their attention because there was a serious problem that they needed to address as a band.Then the next day like here nothing happened. And never again Axl seemed concerned and worried about his band mates.

Are you serious? 
Have you ever read anything nice said about him or are all the articles that say anything good not worth reading?

If he didn't care, why did he get upset when people quit? That's not "not caring".





/jarmo

[dolphins]

The only time I saw Axl caring about bands issues was during the 1989 RS shows. But beyond that public rant to get their attention because there was a serious problem that they needed to address as a band.Then the next day like here nothing happened. And never again Axl seemed concerned and worried about his band mates.

Are you serious? 
Have you ever read anything nice said about him or are all the articles that say anything good not worth reading?

If he didn't care, why did he get upset when people quit? That's not "not caring".





/jarmo

If it's true what I've read in books Axl spent time with Duff when he nearly died when his pancreas was shot to pieces due to his drinking. He said Axl came to stay with him & look after him for a time when he left hospital. This was despite issues within the band happening, or there was nothing going on with the band at the time.

If Steven's book is true (& people don't seem to think it's written by Steven) it states that Axl sat by his bedside while he was in a coma after an overdose of drugs - the others were appearing in a movie which Axl made an appearance after Steven was awake. Yet Steven was still in the band for a while after until it really got out of hand, Axl gave up his time from the film to be with Steven.


Does he need to make a list of things he does for the others & read it out at each concert so fans know what he does?   

[NaturalLight]

The only time I saw Axl caring about bands issues was during the 1989 RS shows. But beyond that public rant to get their attention because there was a serious problem that they needed to address as a band.Then the next day like here nothing happened. And never again Axl seemed concerned and worried about his band mates.

Are you serious? 
Have you ever read anything nice said about him or are all the articles that say anything good not worth reading?

If he didn't care, why did he get upset when people quit? That's not "not caring".





/jarmo

If it's true what I've read in books Axl spent time with Duff when he nearly died when his pancreas was shot to pieces due to his drinking. He said Axl came to stay with him & look after him for a time when he left hospital. This was despite issues within the band happening, or there was nothing going on with the band at the time.

If Steven's book is true (& people don't seem to think it's written by Steven) it states that Axl sat by his bedside while he was in a coma after an overdose of drugs - the others were appearing in a movie which Axl made an appearance after Steven was awake. Yet Steven was still in the band for a while after until it really got out of hand, Axl gave up his time from the film to be with Steven.


Does he need to make a list of things he does for the others & read it out at each concert so fans know what he does?   

Didn't Slash make some comment in this book that Axl was one of the first ones to his bedside after he OD'd?

[Princess Leia]

Axl gets upset because people don?t want to play HIS GAME UNDER HIS SET OF RULES. And because of that they quit.

 Yes Axl spent time with Duff and care about him. But keep in mind that was after Duff nearly dies. Too bad Axl didn?t do much when Duff was drinking half a gallon or more of Vodka everyday.

I haven?t read Adler?s book. So I don?t know about that episode in question.

When Slash ODed in San Francisco apparently all Axl told Slash afterwards was something like they were scared. And that they thought they needed to find another guitar player.

But besides these health episodes. There were work related issues. For example. It was Axl?s idea to bring Dizzy to the band. So he just brought him to the studio one day. BUT he never consulted with his band mates. That?s not how a band has to operate. Later he did the same thing with Paul Tobias. I think we all know how that ended up.

[mortismurphy]

Axl gets upset because people don?t want to play HIS GAME UNDER HIS SET OF RULES. And because of that they quit.

 Yes Axl spent time with Duff and care about him. But keep in mind that was after Duff nearly dies. Too bad Axl didn?t do much when Duff was drinking half a gallon or more of Vodka everyday.

I haven?t read Adler?s book. So I don?t know about that episode in question.

When Slash ODed in San Francisco apparently all Axl told Slash afterwards was something like they were scared. And that they thought they needed to find another guitar player.

But besides these health episodes. There were work related issues. For example. It was Axl?s idea to bring Dizzy to the band. So he just brought him to the studio one day. BUT he never consulted with his band mates. That?s not how a band has to operate. Later he did the same thing with Paul Tobias. I think we all know how that ended up.

Cannot disagree. Axl had a different vision of GN'R from the one formally. The Appetite band was a democratic set up with five virtual equals. By the 1990s Axl wanted to switch this to a band in which he had the controlling legal and creative power. The answer to, 'why the old band broke up?' is actually very obvious. It was a conflict of interest between two different visions of 'Guns N' Roses'.

[dolphins]

Axl gets upset because people don?t want to play HIS GAME UNDER HIS SET OF RULES. And because of that they quit.

 Yes Axl spent time with Duff and care about him. But keep in mind that was after Duff nearly dies. Too bad Axl didn?t do much when Duff was drinking half a gallon or more of Vodka everyday.

I haven?t read Adler?s book. So I don?t know about that episode in question.

When Slash ODed in San Francisco apparently all Axl told Slash afterwards was something like they were scared. And that they thought they needed to find another guitar player.

But besides these health episodes. There were work related issues. For example. It was Axl?s idea to bring Dizzy to the band. So he just brought him to the studio one day. BUT he never consulted with his band mates. That?s not how a band has to operate. Later he did the same thing with Paul Tobias. I think we all know how that ended up.

To be fair Axl isn't a trained counsellor to be able to help Duff, even rehab with all the training they have don't always succeed getting people dry.

I don't know about the Slash overdosing in San Francisco part, I'd have to go back to Slash and Duff's books to see what Axl told Slash afterwards. Plus even then you don't know where the truth lies in their books.

It does seem to have a band run smoothly things need to be under discussion as a band and not just one person. It seems most people have always seen Axl as the 'boss' of the band, perhaps he feels he is. From reading the 3 books (and you have read 2 of them?) everything points to the others being scared of upsetting Axl so what he said & did was final. If they had stood up to him as they decided and not then backed down as they seemed to do when it came to the crunch I wonder what the reaction would have been.

[EmilyGNR]

The only time I saw Axl caring about bands issues was during the 1989 RS shows. But beyond that public rant to get their attention because there was a serious problem that they needed to address as a band.Then the next day like here nothing happened. And never again Axl seemed concerned and worried about his band mates.

Are you serious? 
Have you ever read anything nice said about him or are all the articles that say anything good not worth reading?

If he didn't care, why did he get upset when people quit? That's not "not caring".





/jarmo

Bingo- great point.

People seem to have invented some fantasies in their head that suit their narrative but are far removed from any semblance to reality.

[jarmo]

Yes Axl spent time with Duff and care about him. But keep in mind that was after Duff nearly dies. Too bad Axl didn?t do much when Duff was drinking half a gallon or more of Vodka everyday.

In his book he mentions that Axl told him it was a bad idea for him to go out in solo tour in 1993. Why would Axl say that?
Your making statements as facts without anything to back them up.




/jarmo
 

[mortismurphy]

I think all the evidence points to Axl doing a fair amount about the drug abuse. It was band decisions, which certainly included Axl, that got Slash checked into that rehabilitation place - I think it was in Hawaii but do not quote me on that. They all, collectively, tried everything with the Adler situation. Axl is guilty of a lot of things but I do not think you can pin that on him.

[Gunsguy]

No one can sit here and claim Axl doesn't care.  I know a few of us know he truly does care.  You think someone leaving doesn't upset him?  You would be dead wrong.

[Princess Leia]

Yes Axl spent time with Duff and care about him. But keep in mind that was after Duff nearly dies. Too bad Axl didn?t do much when Duff was drinking half a gallon or more of Vodka everyday.

In his book he mentions that Axl told him it was a bad idea for him to go out in solo tour in 1993. Why would Axl say that?
Your making statements as facts without anything to back them up.




/jarmo
 

Why Axl didn?t say that during or before the UYI Tour? I?m afraid Axl was too late. I?m not asking Axl to play doctor. I wonder why Axl was so careless or so blind.  But since you read Duff book. What was Axl reaction when Duff told him he was leaving? They just shook hands. Sure that?s amicable. But Axl didn?t express sadness or regrets. Axl didn?t tell that Duff he was gonna be missed. Axl didn?t tell Duff that the door was open if Duff changed his mind. Axl said nothing. Now that sounds like Axl care that Duff was leaving? how do I know that Axl didn?t express any feelings of sadness? because Duff didn?t print it in his book. Keep in mind that when Duff wrote his book he was in good terms with Axl. We know this because of the way the book ends

[JAEBALL]

You know, the Duffman made some claims in his book too, as I recall.  We just looking the other way on that now, given the reconciliation?

Duff's book starts with an important message.  





/jarmo

Uhh yeah but even tho Duff starts off the book by saying that the following was his truth... his recollection of events still don't vibe with Axl's...I'm glad those two made their peace, but it still doesn't make much sense to forgive and forget with one and not the other.

Obviously there was always a more deep rooted hatred for Slash.

[JAEBALL]

No one can sit here and claim Axl doesn't care.  I know a few of us know he truly does care.  You think someone leaving doesn't upset him?  You would be dead wrong.

Agreed... if he didn't care... he wouldn't still spout so much venom when speaking of "old guns"

in contrast, he has been pretty tight lipped when it comes to Bucket and Robin leaving.

[LongGoneDay]

I don?t think their egos allowed them to take into account that what they had was special, and not to be replicated.
They treated GN'R (Axl still does) like a car, replacing faulty parts just to keep it on the road.

[JAEBALL]

I don?t think their egos allowed them to take into account that what they had was special, and not to be replicated.
They treated GN'R (Axl still does) like a car, replacing faulty parts just to keep it on the road.

Agreed...take in to account the story that Axl always wanted Dave navarro in the band... Yeah that would be nice but...

You can bring Gary Payton and Karl Malone to play for the Lakers... First ballot hall of famers... but the chemistry was not the same.

In 2015... I don't think any departure would affect him much... maybe Dizzy : )

Like you said... it's his life and career...whatever he has to do tog et the car back on the road to sell tickets at GNR shows... doesnt matter who is with him.

[D-GenerationX]

The only time I saw Axl caring about bands issues was during the 1989 RS shows. But beyond that public rant to get their attention because there was a serious problem that they needed to address as a band.Then the next day like here nothing happened. And never again Axl seemed concerned and worried about his band mates.

I think that is one of his best moments, hands down.

"I really hate to do this onstage, but I have tried every other fucking way..."

You can hear the frustration in his voice, but also the genuine concern.  His band was fucking up and he wanted things back on track.

Great moment for him.

[D-GenerationX]

Axl gets upset because people don?t want to play HIS GAME UNDER HIS SET OF RULES. And because of that they quit.

Its the common denominator in every departure the band has suffered, other than Adler.  To deny that is insanity.

But besides these health episodes. There were work related issues. For example. It was Axl?s idea to bring Dizzy to the band. So he just brought him to the studio one day. BUT he never consulted with his band mates. That?s not how a band has to operate. Later he did the same thing with Paul Tobias. I think we all know how that ended up.

The Paul Tobias things was just totally a dick move. 

Not only trying to shoehorn him in there to begin with.  Once you see how poorly he is being received by the rest of the gang, you have to pull him aside and tell him it just won't work.  You don't break up your whole band over a guy no one has ever heard of.  I was surprised by how involved Paul wound up being in creating 'Chinese', and I like a lot of what he did.  But that that price?  Wasn't THAT great.  Come on now.

The 'Sympathy' thing is not just a dick move, its one of the most unprofessional things I have ever heard an artist do.  Talk about no respect for anyone.

Not his finest hour.

[D-GenerationX]

No one can sit here and claim Axl doesn't care.  I know a few of us know he truly does care.  You think someone leaving doesn't upset him?  You would be dead wrong.

All due respect, that is anecdotal and totally unverifiable.

If you have some path to the inner circle, hey, good on ya.  But never been a fan of using that to try and big time someone into silence if you don't like what they are saying.  It might be different if you were willing to lay whatever you know on the table. 

But "Trust me, you are wrong.  Can't tell you how wrong you are.  But I can't go into it."  Nah.  Sorry.  That does not move the conversation forward.

[jarmo]

Yes Axl spent time with Duff and care about him. But keep in mind that was after Duff nearly dies. Too bad Axl didn´t do much when Duff was drinking half a gallon or more of Vodka everyday.

In his book he mentions that Axl told him it was a bad idea for him to go out in solo tour in 1993. Why would Axl say that?
Your making statements as facts without anything to back them up.




/jarmo
 

Why Axl didn´t say that during or before the UYI Tour? I´m afraid Axl was too late. I´m not asking Axl to play doctor. I wonder why Axl was so careless or so blind.  But since you read Duff book. What was Axl reaction when Duff told him he was leaving? They just shook hands. Sure that´s amicable. But Axl didn´t express sadness or regrets. Axl didn´t tell that Duff he was gonna be missed. Axl didn´t tell Duff that the door was open if Duff changed his mind. Axl said nothing. Now that sounds like Axl care that Duff was leaving? how do I know that Axl didn´t express any feelings of sadness? because Duff didn´t print it in his book. Keep in mind that when Duff wrote his book he was in good terms with Axl. We know this because of the way the book ends

Why didn't he do this? Why didn't he do that? Maybe he had his own issues going on at the time? Maybe he did more than we know? Maybe everything isn't known to the public?
How do you know what their conversations were about? You read something and you think you know everything that happened.

“To Axl: thanks for putting up with my shit and being my friend in those dark hours.”

Excerpt From: McKagan, Duff. "It’s So Easy."


Put it to rest already. You have an image of Axl in your mind and nothing else makes sense. We get it. But don't let that get confused with real life.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Why didn't he do this? Why didn't he do that? Maybe he had his own issues going on at the time? Maybe he did more than we know? Maybe everything isn't known to the public?
How do you know what their conversations were about? You read something and you think you know everything that happened.

Maybe this is what happens when you never speak on anything.  Learn to shrug off the speculation or start talking.  Flip a coin.  But pick one.

Two way street here, BTW.  There could well be a number of stories that paint Axl in an excellent light that we know nothing about.  But, we're not mind readers, and he does have a tongue, so.....