Goodbye Ron (???)

[GypsySoul]

And at what point do your current bandmates start to wonder how little Axl actually thinks of you that the only way forward he sees is releasing stuff from a guy that is gone 10 years and wants nothing to do with the operation?  They are only human.  Its crossed their minds, I assure you.

Axl, Tommy, Dizzy, Chris and Richard are all still current bandmates too.
What about all the years of work that they put into those songs?  Just because one guy (or 3) decided to leave the band, all your years and years of blood, sweat, and tears gets thrown away?

Which brings me full-circle back to my point about not wanting to start something new with Bumblefoot when he continually suggests he's taking his riffs and leaving the band.

[D-GenerationX]

Axl, Tommy, Dizzy, Chris and Richard are all still current bandmates too.
What about all the years of work that they put into those songs?  Just because one guy (or 3) decided to leave the band, all your years and years of blood, sweat, and tears gets thrown away?

Is it ideal?  No.  I'm sure its a kick in the ass.

But what's the alternative?  Do nothing?  That's no solution.

If Bucket is truly the hold-up, then he's been the hold-up for years now.  What is new about it?  How long can you rationally sit around twiddling your thumbs and think its going to magically sort itself out?

[GypsySoul]

If Bucket is truly the hold-up, then he's been the hold-up for years now.  What is new about it?  How long can you rationally sit around twiddling your thumbs and think its going to magically sort itself out?

I was only using Buckethead as an example to attempt to make my point about copyright issues with songs involving so many individuals.

Again, my point is how maybe no one has been just sitting around twiddling their thumbs.  What they were/are doing is figuring out a way to release material that at least 8 individuals have spent decades of their life working on to the legal and moral satisfaction of all concerned.

Your answer to Axl, Richard, Tommy, Dizzy and Chris is a big sorry, fuck-you to all those years of material because new people are now in the band?
 

[D-GenerationX]

Again, my point is how maybe no one has been just sitting around twiddling their thumbs.  What they were/are doing is figuring out a way to release material that at least 8 individuals have spent decades of their life working on to the legal and moral satisfaction of all concerned.

Your answer to Axl, Richard, Tommy, Dizzy and Chris is a big sorry, fuck-you to all those years of material because new people are now in the band?

Figuring all that out does not take all this time.

That goes one of two ways.  People agree it should come out, and you are negotiating the price.  Or the others say its only coming out over their dead body.

If it's the former, you work that out in 8 years time.  Let's be serious.

If it's the latter, no amount of time is going to make that any better.  And if that's the case, yes, you have to move on from that material you recorded.  Yeah, it sucks. 

But if the alternative is to sit around indefinitely, and hope whoever is blocking the release suddenly has their heart grow three sizes like the Grinch and they do the right thing, that's not a very realistic plan of attack.

[GypsySoul]

But if the alternative is to sit around indefinitely, and hope whoever is blocking the release suddenly has their heart grow three sizes like the Grinch and they do the right thing, that's not a very realistic plan of attack.

I know this discussion how gone waaaay out into left field but it is NOT about anyone blocking the next GNR release.

It's all about possible reasons why Bumblefoot maybe or may not be a current member of GNR and why he will not explain his 2 recent social media posts suggesting he's not.

[D-GenerationX]

But if the alternative is to sit around indefinitely, and hope whoever is blocking the release suddenly has their heart grow three sizes like the Grinch and they do the right thing, that's not a very realistic plan of attack.

I know this discussion how gone waaaay out into left field but it is NOT about anyone blocking the next GNR release.

It's all about possible reasons why Bumblefoot maybe or may not be a current member of GNR and why he will not explain his 2 recent social media posts suggesting he's not.

True.

And I think those reasons are that he's tired of being nothing more part of Axl's touring band that will never do anything creatively.

I was one of the most vocal people about how great it was Axl was talking new album.  Maybe, god willing, this was finally going to happen.

But now to see Ron walk...I don't know.  If he finally saw a light at the end of the tunnel, doesn't he stay?

Bucket left because he didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel, and nothing happened for 5 more years.  Using that as a guide, its sort of a bummer.

Hope I'm wrong.

[GypsySoul]

And I think those reasons are that he's tired of being nothing more part of Axl's touring band that will never do anything creatively.

To use one of your own arguments against you:  After 8 years, he's only now coming around to that conclusion?  And if so, why not say so instead of the cryptic posts?  Why avoid answering the questions of the fans when they ask him straight out?

But now to see Ron walk...I don't know.  If he finally saw a light at the end of the tunnel, doesn't he stay?

Bucket left because he didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel, and nothing happened for 5 more years.  Using that as a guide, its sort of a bummer.

First off, I don't think Buckethead not seeing the light at the end of the GNR tunnel had anything to do with his exit.

With the timing of Robin's departure and the release of CD, that might very well be the case.  Didn't he see the light?  If not, why not?? Which brings me back to one of my original question about if anyone ... Bucket, Robin, Ron, whomever ... has any insights to the behind the scenes legal goings on.  Has any of them asked?

[Ali]

I don't agree with that.  We don't know if it's what you're stating or that new song ideas have been passed around and worked on.  Could very well be the latter.

As far as proof, what proof would we ever have of songs ideas being worked on?  Short of those songs being developed fully and selected for release, we'll never have any idea what all the song ideas that have been worked on.

So, back to the usual tap dancing, I suppose.

The lack of proof of anything being done does not confirm that nothing has been done...yet that same lack of proof can be used to argue it has been done (maybe).

Classic.

No.

I merely asked what would constitute proof that song ideas are being worked on.  What would?  Hearing the demos themselves?  I suppose.  How often does that happen without someone leaking them? 

You brought up the issue of proof, so I'm curious what would constitute that. 

I don't see any routine scenario, outside the leaking of demos like what happened with Chinese Democracy, that would prove that a band is working on songs when they say are other than the finished songs being released in single, EP, or full-length album format, or playing a new song live.

As far as the first point, I don't know why and I don't see any plausible explanation why adding a re-recorded instrumentation track would ever be referred to as working on each other's song ideas.

Ali

[Ginger King]

So tweaking my original premise a little bit, maybe the way none of them are ever permitted to talk about the band they are in plays a role there.  Are things different if Axl spent more time putting his new guys over and less time talking about Slash the cancer?  Would fans feel more of a connection if these guys were able to give interviews and actually talk in some meaningful way about the band they are in?

Haven't you ever wondered if Axl might be under a similar type of gag order from "the suits" (in connection to disclosing all the legal/contractual issues with the other band members)?

Going back to the days of Bucket, Robin and Brain, none of the other members seem to have any insights on the behind the scene legal goings on. 

Has Ron or any of them (past or present) asked? 

Are you suggesting/do you believe that Axl's recluse lifestyle and lack of promotion/ambivalence to release new music is because he's complying with the demands from "the suits"?  This whole time, he's been chomping at the bit to release new music/give us the truth, but the corporate big wigs have contractually silenced him?  Does that really sound plausible?  Has his attitude or demeanor over the past 30 years indicate that he's beholden to the man? 

Sorry, but this sounds like a real stretch of reality.

[GypsySoul]

Are you suggesting/do you believe that Axl's recluse lifestyle and lack of promotion/ambivalence to release new music is because he's complying with the demands from "the suits"?  This whole time, he's been chomping at the bit to release new music/give us the truth, but the corporate big wigs have contractually silenced him?  Does that really sound plausible?  Has his attitude or demeanor over the past 30 years indicate that he's beholden to the man? 

No. 

I'm wondering why the other guys in the band, specifically the CD-era guys, don't seem to have any clue about the business/legal aspect of things.  Didn't any of them ever ask?  I'll use the Robin example again.  During the time frame he left, everything he had previously said about wanting GNR to do, i.e., release the album and tour tour tour.  How come he didn't know those things were about to happen?  Or was he just blowing smoke up the fans' asses and he was leaving no matter what?

From things Ron and the others say in interviews or on social media, it seems they have no idea what's going on.  When Axl said about looking into releasing new music (or however he put it), wouldn't you think Ron would say to him or whomever something to the effect of "is it going to be the stuff I've already re-recorded or will I need to re-record other songs or are we writing new stuff together, or all of the above?  What kind of time frame are we talking?"  But from Ron's posting on social media and interviews he's done, he comes across as not having asked the questions.

That being said, I was trying to look at other possible scenarios and maybe Ron did ask and was told something along the lines of that GNR is in negotiations to release the CDII & CDIII material and those negotiations involve copyright issues with Bucket or Robin or whomever, and Axl n' the suits aren't at liberty to discuss that with him at this point in time.

Like I said, going by what Ron says in the media, he never asked the questions so that "gag order" thing or anything else was never part of any kind of discussion about business/legal stuff. 

OR.... Ron did ask the questions and does know the answers and all this stuff in the media is a smoke screen??

Personally, I doubt he's that good an actor.


P.S. I never thought Axl had/has a reclusive lifestyle.  Just because I didn't know about things he was doing at the time they were happening, somewhere down the line we see pics of him out at the SuperBowl or at a baseball or basketball game or out buying cars or going to parties or doing video game voices or being on other artists' albums or doing soccer commercials, etc.  Plus I was totally fine with the interviews and press releases and BestBuy flyers and stuff Axl did to promote CD.  And, IMO, Axl may be many things, good and bad, but I seriously doubt he's ambivalent about anything!!!
 

[raindogs70]

Axl's going to be moving in with Ron & Jen. Cross the river to the Jersey side, yeah.

[ticognr]

During a visit to Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates to perform at the launch of the Classic Rock Coffee Company on July 31, GUNS N' ROSES guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal spoke about his plans for a new solo album as well as the status of the band's long-awaited follow-up to 2008's "Chinese Democracy".

Asked if it's fair to say that his solo career has taken a backseat once he joined GUNS N' ROSES, Thal told The National: "The solo albums are everything to me and it's really what I do. To be honest, I really should have paid more attention to it, even when I was in GUNS N' ROSES. I should have been touring more and putting more albums than what I did."

Regarding whether he is glad he reconsidered his decision to join GUNS N' ROSES after initially turning down an opportunity to become a part of the group, Thal told Time Out Dubai: "It's a yes-and-no thing. Ultimately, yes, there are a lot of things with it that made life more difficult, but we are supposed to have challenges. If it was easy, then everything would be handed to us. I have definitely learned a lot and I grew a lot. I think I became a better person in the end, or I try to be. I don't regret it."

On the topic of whether he has submitted compositions for GUNS N' ROSES to record for the band's next studio album, Thal told Khaleej Times: "I wanted to get together as a band, I didn't want to submit my songs for the band to play. I wanted the band to write as a band so it would truly be a band. But we're just too busy with touring and other things, and it just didn't happen."

He added: "It's reaching the point where I'm starting to nurture the rest of my life, because I do a lot of other things ? and that's really who I am."

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/bumblefoot-i-really-should-have-paid-more-attention-to-my-solo-career-even-when-i-was-in-guns-n-roses/



=/

[rebelhipi]

Are you suggesting/do you believe that Axl's recluse lifestyle and lack of promotion/ambivalence to release new music is because he's complying with the demands from "the suits"?  This whole time, he's been chomping at the bit to release new music/give us the truth, but the corporate big wigs have contractually silenced him?  Does that really sound plausible?  Has his attitude or demeanor over the past 30 years indicate that he's beholden to the man? 

I'm wondering why the other guys in the band, specifically the CD-era guys, don't seem to have any clue about the business/legal aspect of things.  Didn't any of them ever ask?  I'll use the Robin example again.  During the time frame he left, everything he had previously said about wanting GNR to do, i.e., release the album and tour tour tour.  How come he didn't know those things were about to happen?  Or was he just blowing smoke up the fans' asses and he was leaving no matter what?

I think he left just because he was asked to join Nine inch nails again, this was early 08 (i think) when probably none knew what was going to happen in the next 10 months. He went to tour with NIN and kinda stayed there. So personally i think theres a chance that he could come back to GNR at some point.

[GypsySoul]

I think he left just because he was asked to join Nine inch nails again, this was early 08 (i think) when probably none knew what was going to happen in the next 10 months. He went to tour with NIN and kinda stayed there. So personally i think theres a chance that he could come back to GNR at some point.

Full disclosure:  I'm still pissed at Robin for the way he left so it's definitely a factor in my perception in this current Bumblefoot issue.

I find it mind-boggling that Robin had zero clue about the upcoming release of CD and all the touring to follow but let's say that was the case.  He obviously knew he was leaving to rejoin NIN but for whatever reason blew smoke up the GNR fan's asses until beyond the very end.  Maybe doing it this way was all on Robin?  Maybe it was some mutual agreement between Robin, the band and management not to disclose his imminent departure?? 

Bumblefoot was there as a first person witness to this.

Fast-forward to this current situation.  Even though on multiple occasions he told the fans we could always count on him to be straight with us, from the time he started the countdown through to the "2014" posting until today, the fans have been asking Bumblefoot what's up with that.

To date we've obviously gotten no clarification from him.

If they were inadvertent postings that the fans are blowing waaaay out of proportion, why not just say he's still in GNR and correct the postings?  If he's left or is leaving and was asked not to disclose that info, why post the countdown or the 2014 to begin with?  Or if it's true that he's left or is leaving, why not say it straight out?

Why play the mind games with the fans?

[russkwtx]

Ok, I waded through all 8 pages (so far) of posts. I don't know anymore than anyone else whether Ron is in or out, if the band is working on music or have they worked together, etc etc. I simply want to respond to the idea that Axl could clear this up quickly if he wanted to.

One of the things that has struck me over the years is how often Axl--the purported controller of everything related to GNR--is absolutely out of the loop a good amount of time. I've been at concerts where he said he was only told at 4-5pm where he was playing that night. In the past he was not told about a planned tour. In some 2013 interviews (on TMS for instance) he seemed to suggest that he was the last to know what was going on. My point--or rather--my speculation, is that maybe Axl does not put the Ron issue to rest because he does not know.

I cannot speak to whether Axl as out of the loop is true or justification for what some here call a dysfunctional band. I cannot speak to whether it is deliberate on his part or whether someone else decides what Axl is told and not told. What is clear is that this is a business and the suits increasingly have control over information as well as the financial resources. The musicians only real role is to make music.

If anyone knows the status of Ron, one would think it would be the record company, but they have a lot of clients and other bands' business so maybe it is not a priority to deal with every GNR rumor. Again, I don't know, but it is not implausible.

[GypsySoul]

I cannot speak to whether Axl as out of the loop is true or justification for what some here call a dysfunctional band. I cannot speak to whether it is deliberate on his part or whether someone else decides what Axl is told and not told. What is clear is that this is a business and the suits increasingly have control over information as well as the financial resources. The musicians only real role is to make music.

If anyone knows the status of Ron, one would think it would be the record company, but they have a lot of clients and other bands' business so maybe it is not a priority to deal with every GNR rumor. Again, I don't know, but it is not implausible.

Definitely plausible BUT even if any or all of that is true, the question still remains as to why Bumblefoot hasn't come out and said the countdown was for his solo tour and the 2014 thing was just an inadvertent typo?

IMO, because it was Ron who made those posting, it's still all on him.

Edited to add:
And if the fans are just innocent bystanders in some kind of negotiations or whatever between Ron and the band/management, an easy way to let the fans in on that without giving an actual explanation would be to once a day change the (2006-2014) to (2006-present) and then the next day back again. 

[draguns]

I think he left just because he was asked to join Nine inch nails again, this was early 08 (i think) when probably none knew what was going to happen in the next 10 months. He went to tour with NIN and kinda stayed there. So personally i think theres a chance that he could come back to GNR at some point.

Full disclosure:  I'm still pissed at Robin for the way he left so it's definitely a factor in my perception in this current Bumblefoot issue.

I find it mind-boggling that Robin had zero clue about the upcoming release of CD and all the touring to follow but let's say that was the case.  He obviously knew he was leaving to rejoin NIN but for whatever reason blew smoke up the GNR fan's asses until beyond the very end.  Maybe doing it this way was all on Robin?  Maybe it was some mutual agreement between Robin, the band and management not to disclose his imminent departure?? 

Bumblefoot was there as a first person witness to this.

Fast-forward to this current situation.  Even though on multiple occasions he told the fans we could always count on him to be straight with us, from the time he started the countdown through to the "2014" posting until today, the fans have been asking Bumblefoot what's up with that.

To date we've obviously gotten no clarification from him.

If they were inadvertent postings that the fans are blowing waaaay out of proportion, why not just say he's still in GNR and correct the postings?  If he's left or is leaving and was asked not to disclose that info, why post the countdown or the 2014 to begin with?  Or if it's true that he's left or is leaving, why not say it straight out?

Why play the mind games with the fans?

Robin was NEVER a good fit for GNR right from the get go. Just different styles of music. GNR was, is and NEVER will be an industrial type of band.  I really hope that Bumblefoot stays.

[GypsySoul]

Robin was NEVER a good fit for GNR right from the get go. Just different styles of music. GNR was, is and NEVER will be an industrial type of band.  I really hope that Bumblefoot stays.

If you think that Robin wasn't a good fit for GNR, than you must believe that all the CD songs aren't a good fit for GNR either because Robin was a big part of creating that music.

On topic:  Bumblefoot was the one who initiated the in or out questions by his countdown and "2014" social media postings, IMO he should be the one addressing the fans concerns.

[123191]

I think he left just because he was asked to join Nine inch nails again, this was early 08 (i think) when probably none knew what was going to happen in the next 10 months. He went to tour with NIN and kinda stayed there. So personally i think theres a chance that he could come back to GNR at some point.

Full disclosure:  I'm still pissed at Robin for the way he left so it's definitely a factor in my perception in this current Bumblefoot issue.

I find it mind-boggling that Robin had zero clue about the upcoming release of CD and all the touring to follow but let's say that was the case.  He obviously knew he was leaving to rejoin NIN but for whatever reason blew smoke up the GNR fan's asses until beyond the very end.  Maybe doing it this way was all on Robin?  Maybe it was some mutual agreement between Robin, the band and management not to disclose his imminent departure?? 

Bumblefoot was there as a first person witness to this.

Fast-forward to this current situation.  Even though on multiple occasions he told the fans we could always count on him to be straight with us, from the time he started the countdown through to the "2014" posting until today, the fans have been asking Bumblefoot what's up with that.

To date we've obviously gotten no clarification from him.

If they were inadvertent postings that the fans are blowing waaaay out of proportion, why not just say he's still in GNR and correct the postings?  If he's left or is leaving and was asked not to disclose that info, why post the countdown or the 2014 to begin with?  Or if it's true that he's left or is leaving, why not say it straight out?

Why play the mind games with the fans?

Trent has said that this current run will be it for NIN for a while again.  Maybe that provides Robin the chance to come back.  Still watch the youtube video where he played "Better" with the current band and think that would be great.

[D-GenerationX]

One of the things that has struck me over the years is how often Axl--the purported controller of everything related to GNR--is absolutely out of the loop a good amount of time. I've been at concerts where he said he was only told at 4-5pm where he was playing that night. In the past he was not told about a planned tour. In some 2013 interviews (on TMS for instance) he seemed to suggest that he was the last to know what was going on. My point--or rather--my speculation, is that maybe Axl does not put the Ron issue to rest because he does not know.

I cannot speak to whether Axl as out of the loop is true or justification for what some here call a dysfunctional band.

Well, I can.  You can too, I suspect.  Can't anyone with eyes say they are a dysfunctional band?

I also don't particularly believe Axl when he says that stuff.  Entire tours are planned without his say so?  Be serious.  Even if you wanted to make the argument he stays out of the business side of things...the people working for him know the man.  So assume that was true.  How much of a death wish do you have to have to drop something like that in his lap?

Is any of that plausible?