When is the next GNR window ?

[jarmo]

If that makes you feel better, then you're welcome!




/jarmo

[Ali]

If someone has already established their narrative that "this is your basic touring band that plays old GNR songs for Axl to sing live", I think they will view things in such a way that reinforces their already existing narrative, like what I was alluding to above.

Being provided with nothing to refute that over several years time and several breaks between minimally changing touring legs is going to lead people to say such things.

I can't see faulting them for it.  

If the next dates roll around next Spring or so, the album may be closer to being done.  We just may not know about it.  Axl's comments on it may or may not be a measure of that depending on how he chooses to answer.  So, again, I'm not sure how to judge how far along things are from our limited vantage point.

Fair.

But to take 8 more months (or so) and still be on "we are still deciding what to do", well, that's the answer right there, no?  They certainly won't be doing any recording, mixing, or readying for release once more touring starts.  Not realistic and no one should reasonably expect that.  So if no progress is made in the interim before the next tour, it won't be anytime soon.  And wondering what exactly you can't decide on in 8 months, looks at songs already done, is going to be a valid question.

Is that fair?

The problem is that when you've already established a narrative and you've bought into it, it can be difficult to provide evidence that would be sufficient enough to "refute" that narrative and make people change their minds (depending on the individual, obviously).

As Mark Twain said, ?It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.?

Bottom line:  I think there are those that have already established their belief that this isn't a band, and whether or not a band member gives a definitive update on the album (for whatever reason) will not ultimately change that.

I can't fault someone for thinking what they think, but if make assumptions that may not be true or even valid, only to reinforce their point, that can be pointed out.

I don't see why the record can't be mixed by the likes of Andy Wallace again while they are on tour.  Recording files can be shared electronically.  So, I think progress can be made on tour and before a tour.  It just may be difficult for us to know about it.  Any comments about it may be deliberately opaque, unfortunately, so I don't think we can assume a clear answer and status update, or the lack thereof as being indicative of anything.

Ali

[GypsySoul]

Successful tours all over the world; Vegas 2012 show Blu-ray/DVD #1 on Amazon and sells out to the point that it's on back-order; Legions of dedicated rabid GNR fans "following" every move on twitter/fb/instagram/etc made by each GNR band member..... BECAUSE THEY ARE GUNS N' ROSES!!!!

That's what it means to have band credibility.

Hmm...not really.

No one outside the dyed in the wool, post everyday on forums, never gonna lose us diehards think they are a credible band that does stuff.  And let's be honest, even that small segment of overall fandom is pretty fragmented.  There is a far bigger segment that questions what the "plan" supposedly is here.

So you're saying that in YOUR opinion, Axl, Dizzy, Chris, Frank, Ron, Dj, Richard N' Tommy are NOT truly Guns N' Roses?? 

And, in YOUR opinion, these eight gentlemen who have performed under the GNR name for years n' years now to thousands upon thousands of people all over the world and in that just released 2012 Vegas show blu-ray/dvd are not only NOT GNR but also are NOT a "credible band"??

In YOUR opinion, the ONLY way to obtain "band credibility" is to release an album of new material 100% written and performed by Tommy, Richard, Dj, Ron, Frank, Chris, Dizzy N' Axl??

Me and my pom-poms believe questioning what the "plan" might be and questioning the "credibility" of the band are two totally different things.

[Mysteron]

Here's a hypothetical question for all of you who think GN'R "needs" to release a new album before the next tour:
Imagine the next tour has two-four new songs from the new/upcoming album. The rest of the set list is similar to what's been the case so far. Will this make a huge difference to you and enough to make you buy a ticket?


/jarmo

The people I grew up with are casual GN'R fans. They liked AFD, UYI, Lies, and have given CD a couple of listens. To them, if GN'R play a new track, that is the time to go and buy another drink. To them, the top songs on Last FM are the songs they want to hear and should form a rotating setlist.

Therefore, if GN'R are playing stadiums, realistically, they should probably stay away from too many new songs, maybe one or two at the most. Guns could do the smaller venue thing for the fans on the forum, and it is there where they play the new music, if it is to be played.

[D-GenerationX]

The problem is that when you've already established a narrative and you've bought into it, it can be difficult to provide evidence that would be sufficient enough to "refute" that narrative and make people change their minds (depending on the individual, obviously).

But as I already said, if he came out and told us as little as "we have the songs picked" or "we are getting things mixed", I would accept that as huge progress and defend it against anyone that said otherwise.

I'm not even one of those "not until its in my hand" types.  If he tells us even those sorts of things, that's moving forward, to me.  "We are still talking about it" is not, in my view.

[D-GenerationX]

So you're saying that in YOUR opinion, Axl, Dizzy, Chris, Frank, Ron, Dj, Richard N' Tommy are NOT truly Guns N' Roses??

This tends to be a semantic argument that goes off the rails quickly, but I'll give it a shot.

In terms of who is "Guns N' Roses", right now, in 2014...its those guys, yes.  That's who is in the band.  Buy a ticket, that is who you should expect.

In the minds of most folks, its not "Guns N' Roses".  Not in 2014, or any other time.  To the general public, GNR is Axl, Slash, and Duff - minimum.  The general public will never accept any Slashless line-up as "Guns N' Roses".  Just never going to happen.  Is what it is.  And I think that is a long lost battle that will never result in changed minds, but nor should we worry about it.

And, in YOUR opinion, these eight gentlemen who have performed under the GNR name for years n' years now to thousands upon thousands of people all over the world and in that just released 2012 Vegas show blu-ray/dvd are not only NOT GNR but also are NOT a "credible band"??

When I say they are not a credible band, in my opinion, I mean because those 8 guys have yet to write even one note together in 8 years time.  I have zero idea what those guys could do as a collaborative effort.  No one does.  All we know is that they do a decent job playing old GNR songs (anywhere from 5-25 years old) for Axl to sing live.  That's what I know of them.

In YOUR opinion, the ONLY way to obtain "band credibility" is to release an album of new material 100% written and performed by Tommy, Richard, Dj, Ron, Frank, Chris, Dizzy N' Axl??

I think as you are touring with a line-up containing a guitarist and a drummer who did the bare minimum on already completed songs on only one album...and another guitarist that has literally never played a note of a GNR record, its hard to call them a credible band.  Touring band, yes.  They've been touring for years now with this line-up.  But what can they do as a unit, creatively?  No idea.  No one knows.  Not me, you, anyone.

However, and this the key point that tends to get lost as I am being burned in effigy around here...I very much WANT to hear what they can do as a band.  I very much WANT a new album from those guys.  I have never said anything different.  I'll roll with old Buckethead/Robin tracks if that's all I can get.  But Id' rather a new album be by these guys.  Even if it means re-recording Bucket/Robin parts.  I see no point releasing as yet unheard GNR music under the GNR banner showcasing guys gone for 10 years.  Certainly not at the expense of guys taking the stage every night as Guns N' Roses. 

[Ali]

The problem is that when you've already established a narrative and you've bought into it, it can be difficult to provide evidence that would be sufficient enough to "refute" that narrative and make people change their minds (depending on the individual, obviously).

But as I already said, if he came out and told us as little as "we have the songs picked" or "we are getting things mixed", I would accept that as huge progress and defend it against anyone that said otherwise.

I'm not even one of those "not until its in my hand" types.  If he tells us even those sorts of things, that's moving forward, to me.  "We are still talking about it" is not, in my view.

I wasn't specifically referring to you.

My comment was more more general, and in response to your comment, ""Why do people say this isn't a real band?"What you just typed.  What you just typed is why people say that. "  It was more about people in general.

Ali

[GypsySoul]

So you're saying that in YOUR opinion, Axl, Dizzy, Chris, Frank, Ron, Dj, Richard N' Tommy are NOT truly Guns N' Roses??

This tends to be a semantic argument that goes off the rails quickly, but I'll give it a shot.

It's not a matter of semantics.  I asked YOUR (notice it's in all caps) opinion.
Either YOU believe these guys are GNR or YOU don't.

However, and this the key point that tends to get lost as I am being burned in effigy around here...I very much WANT to hear what they can do as a band.  I very much WANT a new album from those guys.

And what happens when this new album of original material by these eight guys gets released, if YOUR opinion of this new album is that it sucks because YOU dislike the sound/direction these eight guys decided to go with??  YOU never considered them a real credible band anyway and much less that they are GNR??

Or what happens when this new album of original material by these eight guys gets released, if YOUR opinion of this new album is that it's a gazzillion times better than all the other previous GNR albums combined??  Only then YOU will consider them a real credible band worthy of the GNR banner??

I'll roll with old Buckethead/Robin tracks if that's all I can get.  But Id' rather a new album be by these guys.  Even if it means re-recording Bucket/Robin parts.  I see no point releasing as yet unheard GNR music under the GNR banner showcasing guys gone for 10 years.  Certainly not at the expense of guys taking the stage every night as Guns N' Roses.

If that's all you can get!!??!!??  So in YOUR opinion, Buckethead and Robin used to be credible Gunners for their part in the writing (along with five other members of the current lineup and other people) released new material.  BUT since they're no longer a part of the current line-up, in YOUR opinion, their contributions to the unreleased material isn't worthy of the GNR banner even though five of the guys taking the stage every night as Guns N' Roses also contributed to that same material?? 


It's not a matter of semantics.
Either YOU believe Axl, Dizzy, Chris, Frank, Bumblefoot, Dj, Richard n' Tommy  are GNR or YOU don't.

[GNR2014]

Please stay on topic guys.
When is the next GNR window?
I am hoping they do a New Years Run at Madison Square Garden.

[norway]

Jarmo and D is like expartners

[ Guns could do the smaller venue thing for the fans on the forum, and it is there where they play the new music, if it is to be played.

That would actually be pretty cool.

And I agree, they need to focus on the afd-stuff when doing those bigger gigs.

And if they stopped playing WTTJ, SCOM, Patience, PC, LALD, KOHD, Nighttrain, Brownstone....you get the picture...people would riot. OK, that's hyperbole and given the bands history..maybe poorly phrased.  People would rage....

I would just stomp my foot.

[norway]

to the general public, GNR is Axl, Slash, and Duff - minimum.  The general public will never accept any Slashless line-up as "Guns N' Roses".  Just never going to happen.  Is what it is. 

Dude, it's Axl's voice and 'some guys'. Look at what happened to Motley Crue after ditching Vince.

[jarmo]

When is the next GNR window?

I think I might have mentioned this before, usually GN'R announces shows about three months in advance.
Surprise shows are (obviously) announced on shorter notice (like Brooklyn Bowl in 2013).




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

It's not a matter of semantics.  I asked YOUR (notice it's in all caps) opinion.
Either YOU believe these guys are GNR or YOU don't.

In terms of who is "Guns N' Roses", right now, in 2014...its those guys, yes.  That's who is in the band.  Buy a ticket, that is who you should expect.

Was this in code on your screen?  Invisible text?  What's the disconnect here?  I mean, its right there.

And what happens when this new album of original material by these eight guys gets released, if YOUR opinion of this new album is that it sucks because YOU dislike the sound/direction these eight guys decided to go with??  YOU never considered them a real credible band anyway and much less that they are GNR??

Nothing about them being a credible band has to do with how the music is received.  That's a point you have just now introduced mid-stream.

Once they release an effort they actually wrote themselves and recorded, we will see what they are capable of.  Whether its good or bad is another conversation, but we will know at that point what sort of band they are once we have a tangible product to judge them on.

Or what happens when this new album of original material by these eight guys gets released, if YOUR opinion of this new album is that it's a gazzillion times better than all the other previous GNR albums combined??  Only then YOU will consider them a real credible band worthy of the GNR banner??

You are kind of meandering here. 

As I said in my original post which I just re-quoted for you here, these current 8 guys are Guns N' Roses in 2014.  Not sure how I can be clearer on that.

If that's all you can get!!??!!??  So in YOUR opinion, Buckethead and Robin used to be credible Gunners for their part in the writing (along with five other members of the current lineup and other people) released new material.  BUT since they're no longer a part of the current line-up, in YOUR opinion, their contributions to the unreleased material isn't worthy of the GNR banner even though five of the guys taking the stage every night as Guns N' Roses also contributed to that same material??

Really not sure why you are struggling so mightily with this.

On the basest level, its like this :

- New album written and recorded by the 8 guys on stage on every night show us what that 8 person band is capable of in its purest form.  Its their ideas, their work, their product, 100%

- New album of 10 year old tracks already recorded by 2 guitarists and another drummer over 10 years ago, with a few flourishes added by the current guys to give the impression of collaboration...not the same thing. 

- A song credited (Rose-Ashba-Thal-Stinson) tells me more about the current band than a song credited (Rose-Carroll-Finck-Mantia)...just with a few drum fills by Frank and a few random riffs by DJ and/or Ron cut and pasted over top of the completed song.  Completed in 2002, that is. 

It's not a matter of semantics.
Either YOU believe Axl, Dizzy, Chris, Frank, Bumblefoot, Dj, Richard n' Tommy  are GNR or YOU don't.

3rd time now, and 4th if you count when I said it yesterday, those 8 guys are Guns N' Roses in 2014.  I'd include a band photo for clarification...if I had one.

[D-GenerationX]

Please stay on topic guys.
When is the next GNR window?
I am hoping they do a New Years Run at Madison Square Garden.

I would not see it this year.  See new dates announced next year, not domestic ones.

[russkwtx]

They haven't played Madagascar in years I don't think.

2012 in Vegas residency.

[russkwtx]

Doesn't anyone remember the last Vegas show (6.7.14) Axl said at the end "maybe we'll see some of you later this year" meaning that the band might do a short tour. Anyone else hear that?

[D-GenerationX]

Doesn't anyone remember the last Vegas show (6.7.14) Axl said at the end "maybe we'll see some of you later this year" meaning that the band might do a short tour. Anyone else hear that?

"We'll be back next year with a whole bunch of new songs." - Axl Rose @ Rock In Rio III, 1.15.2001

People heard that too. 

I, for one, am not going to take something blurted out onstage as gospel, pro or con.

[Ja5oN]

They haven't played Madagascar in years I don't think.

2012 in Vegas residency.

So not in 2013 or 2014.  So years was correct.  I remember asking about it in Toronto and was told it was dropped because "it sounded like a funeral procession" and didn't fit the set.

I personally love it, but it's the old story that we have rehashed a million times on here that they can play only so many songs.  And they give you more than your fair share at a concert!

[jarmo]

Doesn't anyone remember the last Vegas show (6.7.14) Axl said at the end "maybe we'll see some of you later this year" meaning that the band might do a short tour. Anyone else hear that?

Yes.




/jarmo

[Ali]

Doesn't anyone remember the last Vegas show (6.7.14) Axl said at the end "maybe we'll see some of you later this year" meaning that the band might do a short tour. Anyone else hear that?

I was there and I heard that.

As far as what it means, who knows?  It may end up that no touring is done.

Ali