Belo Horizonte, MG, Brazil, March 22, 2014 updates

[banachkevin]

still think you got the best job n in the world jarmo

[EmilyGNR]

Just ignore the agent provocateurs here.
No one said Axl is on all the time.
Are you gonna post the best ad worse of everyone or just Axl?
I've seen many clips with people throwing up on stage, falling off the stage,
and totally shit-faced performing. I have watched zillion of old performances
of seminal bands, it's messy.

It happens. Move the f--k on. Nothing to see here.

[D-GenerationX]

yeah nobody remembers when you do good, but they never forget when you fuck up. 68 more days till show time  

Here's the thing.

To many of us, his vocals in 2002 were a bit of a shock.  Much cleaner than we had heard from him before, and a bit higher in tone.  People noticed.  Not everyone loved it.

But when he came back in 2006, it was more like the Axl we knew.  And people said that.  To this day, most people consider that 2006 tour to be the best he has sounded since he came back.

What I'm establishing here, is this.  People react to what they are given.  Way of the world.  But I don't think its fair or accurate to keep insinuating that people will complain no matter what.  

[Ali]

Plus i didnt hear anything wrong with Axls voice in the videos i saw. Actually i enjoyed them.

The clip of 'November Rain' going around...no red flags, that you hear?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9IQdy94VAE
this one ? Yes, i double checked i still like it

No, not that one.

The clip I am talking about is the end, which is a god damn train wreck.  This clip just happens to cut off right before that.

Here we go :

http://youtu.be/2D7QypeLbSM

Now I ask you, in all candor, how is this not a problem?

I think calling that a "train wreck" is a bit strong. The band doesn't miss a beat - not sure how in on band idioms you are, but the term train wreck usually refers to an instance where the whole band falls apart - a complete derailment, as it were. So, that's not happening here. As far as Axl, I went into the clip inclined to agree with you, but it's actually not as bad as you're making it out to be. It sounds like he could have a little out of sync between his piano part and his vocal, but nothing serious. His high range sounds strong, so that's working. In fact, if he wasn't pushing so much air there, his vocal would be sitting much more "in the mix" and be less noticeable to you. All in all, I'd say it's extremely minor, and the type of thing that's liable to happen in live performance. Name a performer, I bet we can find an instance of them making a noticeable mistake on stage, if we're sufficiently determined. And, things like that are most apt to happen on songs that you've been playing for 20 years, because let's face it - it gets boring. Do I think GNR would be more exciting if Axl got some new songs, and played some smaller venues for a change? Could he be a little more in shape? Yeah, for sure, but let's restrict our complaints to things that are actually happening.

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

[requiem156]

To many of us, his vocals in 2002 were a bit of a shock.  Much cleaner than we had heard from him before, and a bit higher in tone.  

They were cleaner, not higher. The melodies didn't change. Again, let's be accurate.

[D-GenerationX]

Here's a suggestion, since you guys will bring up the same things for every show, so why don't you just start a new thread in Dead Horse where you can complain about the shows you're not attending until the cows come home.

The fact that you are so suddenly meek and not nearly as chatty as usual leads many of us to believe even you can see some of the problems here.

We recognize you are in something of a tough spot.

Well, maybe you're not aware of the fact that I'm actually at the shows. So there's less time to chat with you about the same issues over and over again. No offense.
Sleep is more important than having these discussions with you. Sorry.

No offense taken.

Just as I would hope you don't take offense to the fact that the few days you were not here, there were no fights in any threads.  Perhaps there is a connection there too.

[D-GenerationX]

To many of us, his vocals in 2002 were a bit of a shock.  Much cleaner than we had heard from him before, and a bit higher in tone.  

They were cleaner, not higher. The melodies didn't change. Again, let's be accurate.

You don't think he was singing some of the classic song in higher tone than we had heard previously?

[requiem156]

I think calling that a "train wreck" is a bit strong. The band doesn't miss a beat - not sure how in on band idioms you are, but the term train wreck usually refers to an instance where the whole band falls apart - a complete derailment, as it were. So, that's not happening here. As far as Axl, I went into the clip inclined to agree with you, but it's actually not as bad as you're making it out to be. It sounds like he could have a little out of sync between his piano part and his vocal, but nothing serious. His high range sounds strong, so that's working. In fact, if he wasn't pushing so much air there, his vocal would be sitting much more "in the mix" and be less noticeable to you. All in all, I'd say it's extremely minor, and the type of thing that's liable to happen in live performance. Name a performer, I bet we can find an instance of them making a noticeable mistake on stage, if we're sufficiently determined. And, things like that are most apt to happen on songs that you've been playing for 20 years, because let's face it - it gets boring. Do I think GNR would be more exciting if Axl got some new songs, and played some smaller venues for a change? Could he be a little more in shape? Yeah, for sure, but let's restrict our complaints to things that are actually happening.

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali
[/quote]

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

[Ali]

To many of us, his vocals in 2002 were a bit of a shock.  Much cleaner than we had heard from him before, and a bit higher in tone.  

They were cleaner, not higher. The melodies didn't change. Again, let's be accurate.

You don't think he was singing some of the classic song in higher tone than we had heard previously?

He's right.  The melodies did not change so he was not singing a higher note.  He was using more of a head voice, so tonally it sounded different.  But, it wasn't "higher".

Ali

[requiem156]

To many of us, his vocals in 2002 were a bit of a shock.  Much cleaner than we had heard from him before, and a bit higher in tone.  

They were cleaner, not higher. The melodies didn't change. Again, let's be accurate.

You don't think he was singing some of the classic song in higher tone than we had heard previously?

What I think is that you're mixing metaphors. He was using a cleaner tone, but the thing that would make it higher - ie pitch - didn't change. That's not debatable. Or, not successfully debatable, anyway.

[sky dog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKOWUFt4Ngg

now that is a train wreck in classic Replacements fashion.....Tommy on lead....Freese on bass......

[Ali]

I think calling that a "train wreck" is a bit strong. The band doesn't miss a beat - not sure how in on band idioms you are, but the term train wreck usually refers to an instance where the whole band falls apart - a complete derailment, as it were. So, that's not happening here. As far as Axl, I went into the clip inclined to agree with you, but it's actually not as bad as you're making it out to be. It sounds like he could have a little out of sync between his piano part and his vocal, but nothing serious. His high range sounds strong, so that's working. In fact, if he wasn't pushing so much air there, his vocal would be sitting much more "in the mix" and be less noticeable to you. All in all, I'd say it's extremely minor, and the type of thing that's liable to happen in live performance. Name a performer, I bet we can find an instance of them making a noticeable mistake on stage, if we're sufficiently determined. And, things like that are most apt to happen on songs that you've been playing for 20 years, because let's face it - it gets boring. Do I think GNR would be more exciting if Axl got some new songs, and played some smaller venues for a change? Could he be a little more in shape? Yeah, for sure, but let's restrict our complaints to things that are actually happening.

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.
[/quote]

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali

[requiem156]

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali
[/quote]

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.

[D-GenerationX]

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.

Very much agreed.  Back in the day, I don't know how the hell he ran full speed like he did and still be able to sing well.  Definitely the exception and not the norm.

I was calling up some Youtube clips from 1992, and he's like a track star out there, sprinting side to side.

[sky dog]

he sounded like shit in 1991 and 1992 at times as well...people have very selective memories.

The best his voice has ever been, in my opinion, was 1993 Skin and Bones tour and 2006. That is how it goes though for a guy who sings like he does....

[D-GenerationX]

he sounded like shit in 1991 and 1992 at times as well...people have very selective memories.

The best his voice has ever been, in my opinion, was 1993 Skin and Bones tour and 2006. That is how it goes though for a guy who sings like he does....

I would say 2006 is easily the best since he came back.  Not even close.

1993 is strong, I agree.  Those bootlegs show him in great form.

1991, the initial summer leg is rough.  But I don't know I can recall too many problems in 1992.

However, at no point in any of those years do you get the hit or miss fluctuation on a nightly basis that we get today.

[Ali]

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.
[/quote]

I hear what you're saying.  I've seen Maiden several times on tour and have several live albums of theirs.  Honestly, it is not like Bruce doesn't clip phrases short or insert breaths into lines and break up phrases that were not like that on the studio version.  He isn't immune to the effects of trying to move around while singing either.  It impacts your breath support no matter what.

Ali

[requiem156]

he sounded like shit in 1991 and 1992 at times as well...people have very selective memories.

The best his voice has ever been, in my opinion, was 1993 Skin and Bones tour and 2006. That is how it goes though for a guy who sings like he does....

I would say 2006 is easily the best since he came back.  Not even close.

1993 is strong, I agree.  Those bootlegs show him in great form.

1991, the initial summer leg is rough.  But I don't know I can recall too many problems in 1992.

However, at no point in any of those years do you get the hit or miss fluctuation on a nightly basis that we get today.

Yeah, but you have to know that time takes a toll on singers. I'm not saying he's always doing his best work right now - maybe the most damning thing is that when he's on, his voice seems to be so nearly intact - but, when you hear what's happened to Chris Cornell, Sebastian Bach, Rob Halford, etc over the years, you can't fight the facts - rock singing is not meant to play out over a 20+ year career. The attack you use when you're young, and can get away with it, just doesn't pan out when you're in your 50's. I'm sure we'd all love it if that weren't the case, but there's no getting around it.

[D-GenerationX]

Yeah, but you have to know that time takes a toll on singers. I'm not saying he's always doing his best work right now - maybe the most damning thing is that when he's on, his voice seems to be so nearly intact - but, when you hear what's happened to Chris Cornell, Sebastian Bach, Rob Halford, etc over the years, you can't fight the facts - rock singing is not meant to play out over a 20+ year career. The attack you use when you're young, and can get away with it, just doesn't pan out when you're in your 50's. I'm sure we'd all love it if that weren't the case, but there's no getting around it.

Very true.

And his style is a young man's style, I suppose.  Its yet another comparison you could make with Mike Tyson.  Mike fought a young man's style.  Even in his prime, there were question as to who he could sustain it once he was no longer 22.

[requiem156]

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.

I hear what you're saying.  I've seen Maiden several times on tour and have several live albums of theirs.  Honestly, it is not like Bruce doesn't clip phrases short or insert breaths into lines and break up phrases that were not like that on the studio version.  He isn't immune to the effects of trying to move around while singing either.  It impacts your breath support no matter what.

Ali
[/quote]

Absolutely. It's a bad idea for a singer to run around. You kids and your rock music. :smh: