Axl/Paul and the RNRHOF

[LIGuns]

Axl is definitely a trend setter here..Paul Stanley calling out the HOF as trying to get notoriety bye reuniting the original lineup sounds like the same stunt pulled last year w/ GNR..Two great frontmen calling it like  it is..

[JAEBALL]

I don't even know the names of the guys that are not ace and chriss...don't follow kiss

And non gnr followers don't know the names of today's gnr guys

So... You don't understand why the hall of fame wants the original players who created the legacy for each band?

And the way I read it the hall invited the new guys for kiss , but it was Paul and gene who could not agree on who should play , but I might be wrong on that part... Thats what I thought I saw a few days ago

[faldor]

I don't even know the names of the guys that are not ace and chriss...don't follow kiss

And non gnr followers don't know the names of today's gnr guys

So... You don't understand why the hall of fame wants the original players who created the legacy for each band?

And the way I read it the hall invited the new guys for kiss , but it was Paul and gene who could not agree on who should play , but I might be wrong on that part... Thats what I thought I saw a few days ago

My understanding is that the Hall was going to allow the current lineup of Kiss to perform and be inducted. Peter and Ace had a problem with this and claimed Gene and Paul didn't want to play with them, so they backed out. Then Gene and Paul responded by saying they never said they wouldn't perform with the original lineup, just that they wanted to celebrate all members that have helped sustain the band throughout their storied history.

The problem is, the Hall opens themselves up to these problems with their completely inconsistent rules of which members are invited/inducted. When Guns got in it was just the originals plus Dizzy and Matt. Metallica's bassist got in, as did the RHCP guitarist, and now the current Kiss members. There's no blueprint, it's just someone's opinion on who should get in. They should make some specific rules and regulations in place so they don't open themselves up to criticism, as this issue is becoming all too common. A certain number of years in the band? A certain number of official releases? I'm not sure what the magic formula is but at least have something to go by. Maybe they like all the attention and controversy though.

[JAEBALL]

I don't even know the names of the guys that are not ace and chriss...don't follow kiss

And non gnr followers don't know the names of today's gnr guys

So... You don't understand why the hall of fame wants the original players who created the legacy for each band?

And the way I read it the hall invited the new guys for kiss , but it was Paul and gene who could not agree on who should play , but I might be wrong on that part... Thats what I thought I saw a few days ago

My understanding is that the Hall was going to allow the current lineup of Kiss to perform and be inducted. Peter and Ace had a problem with this and claimed Gene and Paul didn't want to play with them, so they backed out. Then Gene and Paul responded by saying they never said they wouldn't perform with the original lineup, just that they wanted to celebrate all members that have helped sustain the band throughout their storied history.

The problem is, the Hall opens themselves up to these problems with their completely inconsistent rules of which members are invited/inducted. When Guns got in it was just the originals plus Dizzy and Matt. Metallica's bassist got in, as did the RHCP guitarist, and now the current Kiss members. There's no blueprint, it's just someone's opinion on who should get in. They should make some specific rules and regulations in place so they don't open themselves up to criticism, as this issue is becoming all too common. A certain number of years in the band? A certain number of official releases? I'm not sure what the magic formula is but at least have something to go by. Maybe they like all the attention and controversy though.

I agree... there is no rhyme or reason to some of the decisions they have made.. the RHCP guitarist especially

[LIGuns]

I'm pretty sure Dizzy,Matt and Gilby (he'd did play in TSI) we're not inducted..My point was Axl and Paul both saw how the "HOF" we're using them to gain notoriety by being the ones to get a reunion together..

[kyrie]

I'm pretty sure Dizzy,Matt and Gilby (he'd did play in TSI) we're not inducted..My point was Axl and Paul both saw how the "HOF" we're using them to gain notoriety by being the ones to get a reunion together..

Dizzy and Matt were inducted. Gilby was not.

[D-GenerationX]

Axl is definitely a trend setter here..Paul Stanley calling out the HOF as trying to get notoriety bye reuniting the original lineup sounds like the same stunt pulled last year w/ GNR..Two great frontmen calling it like  it is..

I wonder if Paul will also release something right after touting the "overwhelming positive response" to this little move here.

[D-GenerationX]

The problem is, the Hall opens themselves up to these problems with their completely inconsistent rules of which members are invited/inducted. When Guns got in it was just the originals plus Dizzy and Matt. Metallica's bassist got in, as did the RHCP guitarist, and now the current Kiss members. There's no blueprint, it's just someone's opinion on who should get in. They should make some specific rules and regulations in place so they don't open themselves up to criticism, as this issue is becoming all too common. A certain number of years in the band? A certain number of official releases? I'm not sure what the magic formula is but at least have something to go by. Maybe they like all the attention and controversy though.

Credence Clearwater Revival was a mess too.  Fogerty wouldn't even let the other guys on the stage, and they were in the freakin' building.

And look what a fiasco Van Halen was.

[jarmo]

Who knew Axl's not the only one interested in playing ball with this hall of fame!
People dictating who is important and who isn't, trying to sell tickets based on dreams of a forced reunion.

Sticking to your guns, gotta respect that. Even if I don't consider myself a fan of their band.



/jarmo

[Bodhi]

A few weeks ago Paul did an interview regarding the Hall of fame, some really great stuff here, couldnt agree with him more..

PAUL STANLEY Slams ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME System As 'Tainted, Corrupted And Distorted'

Asked if he feels honored at being inducted in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame, Stanley said: "No. It was done begrudgingly and because it had become absolutely ludicrous that they were choosing to ignore us.

"At the end of the day, most people don't realize that the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame was a privately created establishment and that it has a self-appointed board. It's a perfect case of perception becoming reality. People heard 'Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame' and gave it credibility. So whether it deserves the title has to be weighed against who it inducts.

"So was it an honor to be nominated? No. It means a lot to the fans and I understand it because it's validation for them. So for that reason I accept graciously and accept on their behalf.

"My feelings and my ambivalence about the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame hasn't changed any. Their attitude is elitist and it doesn't reflect the public. It reflects a small group who dictate who meets the criteria that they set up as 'rock and roll.'

"I've always felt the spirit of rock and roll meant not only ignoring your critics, but ignoring your peers and going your own way. I think we've done that pretty much with few exceptions for 40 years. So that same criteria that kept us out has not gotten us in.

"I scratch my head a little and I also take issue with a certain arrogance within that group. Nonetheless, I look at some of the inductees and any club that has Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton and THE WHO and THE BEATLES and THE [ROLLING] STONES is company I don't mind being in and my feelings have nothing to do with any of them, it purely has to do with a system which I think is tainted, corrupted and distorted."

Regarding whether he is looking forward to playing it, Stanley said: "Honestly, I have no plans at the moment to do anything, and that includes playing with [original KISS members] Ace [Frehley] and Peter [Criss] or anyone else. My plan at the moment is to go and accept the award. Anything else, we'll see how it unfolds or unravels.

"It was interesting to me, or offensive to me, that when the question was broached with the hierarchy about inducting additional members, it was shut down immediately as 'a nonstarter,' which, to me, is arrogant.

"People who sit behind desks need to respect the people who are actually either inductees or possible inductees into this so-called hallowed organization. So the fact that there are 30 or 40 or 50 or some absurd number of GRATEFUL DEAD members all inducted, the fact that all of the [RED HOT] CHILI PEPPERS, including people who played on early albums that never amounted to very much are not inducted, the fact that John Rutsey, the drummer on the first RUSH album is not inducted, the fact that Rob Trujillo, who's a great guy but didn't play on any of the classic METALLICA albums, was inducted after being in the band six years makes me wonder exactly what are the rules? If the rules don't apply to everybody, then they're not rules."

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/paul-stanley-slams-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-system-as-tainted-corrupted-and-distorted/#cRoD1JaMOWpuJHzw.99

[Ali]

A few weeks ago Paul did an interview regarding the Hall of fame, some really great stuff here, couldnt agree with him more..

PAUL STANLEY Slams ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME System As 'Tainted, Corrupted And Distorted'

Asked if he feels honored at being inducted in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame, Stanley said: "No. It was done begrudgingly and because it had become absolutely ludicrous that they were choosing to ignore us.

"At the end of the day, most people don't realize that the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame was a privately created establishment and that it has a self-appointed board. It's a perfect case of perception becoming reality. People heard 'Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame' and gave it credibility. So whether it deserves the title has to be weighed against who it inducts.

"So was it an honor to be nominated? No. It means a lot to the fans and I understand it because it's validation for them. So for that reason I accept graciously and accept on their behalf.

"My feelings and my ambivalence about the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame hasn't changed any. Their attitude is elitist and it doesn't reflect the public. It reflects a small group who dictate who meets the criteria that they set up as 'rock and roll.'

"I've always felt the spirit of rock and roll meant not only ignoring your critics, but ignoring your peers and going your own way. I think we've done that pretty much with few exceptions for 40 years. So that same criteria that kept us out has not gotten us in.

"I scratch my head a little and I also take issue with a certain arrogance within that group. Nonetheless, I look at some of the inductees and any club that has Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton and THE WHO and THE BEATLES and THE [ROLLING] STONES is company I don't mind being in and my feelings have nothing to do with any of them, it purely has to do with a system which I think is tainted, corrupted and distorted."

Regarding whether he is looking forward to playing it, Stanley said: "Honestly, I have no plans at the moment to do anything, and that includes playing with [original KISS members] Ace [Frehley] and Peter [Criss] or anyone else. My plan at the moment is to go and accept the award. Anything else, we'll see how it unfolds or unravels.

"It was interesting to me, or offensive to me, that when the question was broached with the hierarchy about inducting additional members, it was shut down immediately as 'a nonstarter,' which, to me, is arrogant.

"People who sit behind desks need to respect the people who are actually either inductees or possible inductees into this so-called hallowed organization. So the fact that there are 30 or 40 or 50 or some absurd number of GRATEFUL DEAD members all inducted, the fact that all of the [RED HOT] CHILI PEPPERS, including people who played on early albums that never amounted to very much are not inducted, the fact that John Rutsey, the drummer on the first RUSH album is not inducted, the fact that Rob Trujillo, who's a great guy but didn't play on any of the classic METALLICA albums, was inducted after being in the band six years makes me wonder exactly what are the rules? If the rules don't apply to everybody, then they're not rules."

Read more at http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/paul-stanley-slams-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-system-as-tainted-corrupted-and-distorted/#cRoD1JaMOWpuJHzw.99

All great points.  Especially about this being a private establishment that does not reflect the tastes of fans, necessarily.  Also, about the lineups being inducted.  I will never understand what objective criteria there could be to induct Josh Klinghoffer, but not Tommy Thayer from Kiss or Tommy Stinson.

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

Paul makes some valid points, yes.

It is quizzical to me how Metallica's current bassist gets in.  That makes little sense to me.  I would think its no different than not inducting current GNR, as they had zero to do with the reasons they were inducted.  There is an inconsistency there.

But, like most things, if you take a step back, this stuff isn't that hard.  Definitive line-ups should be the ones that go in.  I'm not sure that is some out there stance.  Its the rare band like a Van Halen that can make a legit argument multiple incarnations had huge success and/or influence.

[Bodhi]

Paul makes some valid points, yes.

It is quizzical to me how Metallica's current bassist gets in.  That makes little sense to me.  I would think its no different than not inducting current GNR, as they had zero to do with the reasons they were inducted.  There is an inconsistency there.

But, like most things, if you take a step back, this stuff isn't that hard.  Definitive line-ups should be the ones that go in.  I'm not sure that is some out there stance.  Its the rare band like a Van Halen that can make a legit argument multiple incarnations had huge success and/or influence.

Klingoffer getting in made absolutely zero sense.  As far as Rob from Metallica goes, he is not really their current bassist, its pretty safe to say he is the permanent bassist.  I was on the fence when it came to him and I leaned towards him not getting in back in 2009.  To his credit he was in the band for 7 years at that point, and played hundreds of sold out shows and sold millions of copies of "Death Magnetic" with the band.  Now 5 years later, the fact that they put him really isn't that controversial, he is a major part of Metallica and their history at this point.

All that said, Paul and Gene were not against anyone getting in.  They feel that ALL members of the band over the past 40 years played a part in the success of Kiss.  I really don't see how people can rip on Gene and Paul for having that stance.

[D-GenerationX]

Klingoffer getting in made absolutely zero sense.  As far as Rob from Metallica goes, he is not really their current bassist, its pretty safe to say he is the permanent bassist.  I was on the fence when it came to him and I leaned towards him not getting in back in 2009.  To his credit he was in the band for 7 years at that point, and played hundreds of sold out shows and sold millions of copies of "Death Magnetic" with the band.  Now 5 years later, the fact that they put him really isn't that controversial, he is a major part of Metallica and their history at this point.

But, in all candor, if 'Death Magnetic' never even came out, does it affect their induction?

I look a it like our band here.  If 'Chinese Democracy' was still "coming soon" as late as their induction, would it matter?  I'd say no.  And the fact that the current guys played a bunch of shows isn't really a game changer for me.

[Ali]

Paul makes some valid points, yes.

It is quizzical to me how Metallica's current bassist gets in.  That makes little sense to me.  I would think its no different than not inducting current GNR, as they had zero to do with the reasons they were inducted.  There is an inconsistency there.

But, like most things, if you take a step back, this stuff isn't that hard.  Definitive line-ups should be the ones that go in.  I'm not sure that is some out there stance.  Its the rare band like a Van Halen that can make a legit argument multiple incarnations had huge success and/or influence.

"Definitive lineup" is a completely vague and subjective criteria.  Therein lies the problem with this "institution".  As Paul Stanley said, "If the rules don't apply to everybody, then they're not rules".

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

"Definitive lineup" is a completely vague and subjective criteria.  Therein lies the problem with this "institution".  As Paul Stanley said, "If the rules don't apply to everybody, then they're not rules".

Only if you really want to commit to the semantics.

For example, the definitive line-up of Iron Maiden does not include Paul D'Ianno.  Only people looking to push some wacky agenda would argue it did.

[D-GenerationX]

Well, looks like this thread hit too close to home for some.

[Ali]

"Definitive lineup" is a completely vague and subjective criteria.  Therein lies the problem with this "institution".  As Paul Stanley said, "If the rules don't apply to everybody, then they're not rules".

Only if you really want to commit to the semantics.

For example, the definitive line-up of Iron Maiden does not include Paul D'Ianno.  Only people looking to push some wacky agenda would argue it did.

It's quite simple.  A "definitive lineup" may vary depending on the person you ask.  Some people prefer Di'anno in Maiden, some prefer Dio in Sabbath.  It's completely subjective, which makes the idea of a "definitive" lineup impossible.  If you replace "definitive" with "original", that's another story. 

More importantly, it's like Paul Stanley said:  Either the rules apply to everyone or they aren't rules at all.  That is the fundamental problem.  There is complete and utter inconsistency in who is inducted.  Maybe the ones pushing the agenda are the HOF committee itself?  I find it curious that there seemed to be issues with both Kiss and GN'R, who are both still active after the dissolution of the original or debut album lineups.

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

I find it curious that there seemed to be issues with both Kiss and GN'R, who are both still active after the dissolution of the original or debut album lineups.

But not in any meaningful way.  Both bands are being inducted due to what their best known line-ups did the first handful of years of their career. 

I mean...is KISS seriously being inducted because of 'Let's Put The X In Sex'?  Of course not.  Would any serious GNR retrospective article contain the line "Known from such songs as 'Welcome To The Jungle', 'Sweet Child O' Mine', and 'Street Of Dreams'."?  No.

I understand your and Paul's overall point.  It just seems like one of those ones you have to shut down all common sense to make work.

[Ali]

I find it curious that there seemed to be issues with both Kiss and GN'R, who are both still active after the dissolution of the original or debut album lineups.

But not in any meaningful way.  Both bands are being inducted due to what their best known line-ups did the first handful of years of their career. 

I mean...is KISS seriously being inducted because of 'Let's Put The X In Sex'?  Of course not.  Would any serious GNR retrospective article contain the line "Known from such songs as 'Welcome To The Jungle', 'Sweet Child O' Mine', and 'Street Of Dreams'."?  No.

I understand your and Paul's overall point.  It just seems like one of those ones you have to shut down all common sense to make work.

Common sense?  Where was the common sense in inducting Josh Klinghoffer or Robert Trujillo given the limited tenures of both in their respective bands at the time of induction?

There is no common sense, no consistency at all to the induction process.  None that I can see.  That was Paul Stanley's point, and I completely agree with him.  I think common sense has to be disregarded in order to consider the induction process consistent between the different bands.

Ali