Tommy: "We want to make a new album, it's a good time"

[GypsySoul]

And I could express an opinion that there's a little man in my television that will control my thoughts, so I best make a hat out of aluminum foil and bacon grease.

You know what people would say about me?  That DX...he seems a little off.

And those people would be correct.

Those people might seem correct to some (especially to the advertisers who implanted subliminal messages into your TV) ... BUT to you .. in your mind .. in your very being .. that aluminum foil hat with bacon grease is exactly what you know you should make because no one, not that little man in your television or anyone else, should have control over what you think or do when it comes to something you are so vehemently opposed to.

Don't let other peoples' opinions or ulterior motives force you to do (or not do) anything you feel is detrimental to yourself.

[D-GenerationX]

And I could express an opinion that there's a little man in my television that will control my thoughts, so I best make a hat out of aluminum foil and bacon grease.

You know what people would say about me?  That DX...he seems a little off.

And those people would be correct.

Those people might seem correct to some (especially to the advertisers who implanted subliminal messages into your TV) ... BUT to you .. in your mind .. in your very being .. that aluminum foil hat with bacon grease is exactly what you know you should make because no one, not that little man in your television or anyone else, should have control over what you think or do when it comes to something you are so vehemently opposed to.

Don't let other peoples' opinions or ulterior motives force you to do (or not do) anything you feel is detrimental to yourself.

OK.  Suppose I accept all that.  Axl is fighting the power and good for him.  Fine.

The result is that he and the label remain at odds for the rest of his days, preventing anything else from ever getting out.

So, in your opinion, when someone then says that Axl is not interested in releasing new music, are they wrong?  Can you really get your back up when, by your own rationale, he is perfectly justified not doing anything proactive to improve that situation?

[Ali]

Here's where your thinking goes awry.  AXL DOES GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THIS!!!! He's stated so over and over, in no uncertain terms ... NO REUNION EVER!!! 

Whoa, time out.

Is your argument that Axl is too...I'm guess you're going to go with, "principled", to sign something like that?  That even going through the motions for business purposes, he can't bring himself to do that?

Hell with the pressure, he's not caving in?  That sort of thing?

I think Gypsy has a valid point.  Axl has never wavered in his stance that a reunion will never happen.  Signing some kind of document that alludes to that even being a remote possibility may be distasteful to him.  I'm not saying that's good or bad.  But, when you are absolutely dead set against something, attaching your to name to a document that concedes what you hate, a reunion, is a even a faint possibility, may be difficult.

Ali

[GNR2014]

Why all the drama? 
Axl said he intends to put out another album, we know he works on his own time frame.
Axl will put out another album, it probably won't happen as soon as you like.
Stop pretending he's committing some capital crime.

[D-GenerationX]

I think Gypsy has a valid point.  Axl has never wavered in his stance that a reunion will never happen.  Signing some kind of document that alludes to that even being a remote possibility may be distasteful to him.  I'm not saying that's good or bad.  But, when you are absolutely dead set against something, attaching your to name to a document that concedes what you hate, a reunion, is a even a faint possibility, may be difficult.

Well, not if you are interested in moving forward with your life and career.

Look, this is all wildly hypothetical.  Who the hell knows if this could even be a thing that happens?  I don't.  We are just spitballin' here.

But its troubling to hear you guys say that even if it were a real world scenario, you think it all makes perfect sense to play it that way.  Sign an ultimately meaningless peace of paper and have a career, or "not give in" and waste the rest of your life in a stalemate as you show those basterads, you show them good.

That makes no sense to me.

This is only one theory though.  I'd be equally arguing just sitting down and mending fences with the label to continue that way should be a possibility.  

What's important here is progress.  At least to me.  

Not making excuses why its not only cool, but also totally rational, to throw the rest of your life away.

[GypsySoul]

OK.  Suppose I accept all that.  Axl is fighting the power and good for him.  Fine.

The result is that he and the label remain at odds for the rest of his days, preventing anything else from ever getting out.

So, in your opinion, when someone then says that Axl is not interested in releasing new music, are they wrong?  Can you really get your back up when, by your own rationale, he is perfectly justified not doing anything proactive to improve that situation?

Yes.  IMO, they are wrong.  Just because he is adamant on this ONE issue (reunion) does not mean he is "fighting the power" or "not interested in releasing new music" or "not doing anything proactive to improve the situation."

It's ONE issue.

Axl has stated that he's interested in releasing more music... definitely maybe.
Maybe Axl had offered to release in the past 5 years all the material that will fit on CD2 thru 99 with a promise that CD5 thru 99 will contain all and only new material by the current line-up. Who knows?

The band has been out & about touring the world in the years since CD was released so there's obviously no problem with him holed up in a cave or anything.  (My point being that the band is in no way inactive.)

If the problem is this ONE issue, maybe it's the label that needs to let it go?

[D-GenerationX]

Why all the drama? 
Axl said he intends to put out another album, we know he works on his own time frame.
Axl will put out another album, it probably won't happen as soon as you like.
Stop pretending he's committing some capital crime.

Its a conversation to pass the time.  

In a few days, hopefully, we have an exciting show to talk about.

[D-GenerationX]

Yes.  IMO, they are wrong.  Just because he is adamant on this ONE issue (reunion) does not mean he is "fighting the power" or "not interested in releasing new music" or "not doing anything proactive to improve the situation."

Let's not get too bogged down in the details of a purely a hypothetical situation that might not even be on the table.

The overall point is that nothing will change so long as "definite maybe" is as in depth an interest as you take in your own career.

And you are free to be in the "Axl has a plan.  I ain't even bovvered" camp.  If that gets you through...hey, salud.

It doesn't get it done for a lot of us though.  Give us something to work with here.

[GypsySoul]

Yes.  IMO, they are wrong.  Just because he is adamant on this ONE issue (reunion) does not mean he is "fighting the power" or "not interested in releasing new music" or "not doing anything proactive to improve the situation."

Let's not get too bogged down in the details of a purely a hypothetical situation that might not even be on the table.

The overall point is that nothing will change so long as "definite maybe" is as in depth an interest as you take in your own career.

And you are free to be in the "Axl has a plan.  I ain't even bovvered" camp.  If that gets you through...hey, salud.

It doesn't get it done for a lot of us though.  Give us something to work with here.

But it seems that the ONLY thing you (and maybe the label) will even consider as "something to work with here" is if Axl agrees to something/anything about the possibility of a reunion.

What else is viable in your opinion?

Its a conversation to pass the time. 

In a few days, hopefully, we have an exciting show to talk about.

On this we can agree. 

[D-GenerationX]

But it seems that the ONLY thing you (and maybe the label) will even consider as "something to work with here" is if Axl agrees to something/anything about the possibility of a reunion.

What else is viable in your opinion?

No, no, no.  That was one scenario I threw out there.  That, frankly, I'm starting to wish I hadn't. 

So forget it.  Forget that whole agreeing to the rights of a reunion thing.

What is viable to me?  Anything.  Literally anything.  I don't even truly accept the label as boogeyman theory.  But I'm willing to give people the courtesy of accepting the premise, but at the same time, having a discussion about how to deal with it.

And in that situation, if your answer is that the lack of progress on ANYTHING new is a fractured relationship with the label, you have to do something about it, no?  Will it just magically fix itself one day?

My whole point here is that something needs to be done to repair that, if you are of the belief its what is holding him back.

 
Its a conversation to pass the time. 

In a few days, hopefully, we have an exciting show to talk about.

On this we can agree. 

No doubt.

We are all fellow fans, just passing a slow Tuesday night.

[GypsySoul]

What is viable to me?  Anything.  Literally anything.  I don't even truly accept the label as boogeyman theory.  But I'm willing to give people the courtesy of accepting the premise, but at the same time, having a discussion about how to deal with it.

You don't truly accept the label as boogeyman theory but you don't seem to have a problem with the theory that Axl is the boogeyman and has offered nothing to meet the label half way??

[The Wight Gunner]

Even if Axl threw the label "that" reunion bone, doesn't the other members have a say in that decision, one has already resisted cooperating with Axl recently  It aint gonna happen....

[Gilbyfan]

I don't think you are following me here.  I am not suggesting Axl signs a contract to reunite the band.

I understood you the first time and what you're suggesting is stu..... is not the smartest thing for Axl to do.

But if they were willing to let him out, but retain their rights to any possible reunion album...what does Axl give a shit?  The reunion is never happening.  He is signing away a possibility that will never come to be.

Yeah. Besides the multiple guest appearances of Izzy, that time with Duff. Oh and that time Axl played a couple of covers with Gilby at one of his early 2000's shows lol.

Hell will freeze over tho before Steven and Slash get an invite.

Here's where your thinking goes awry.  AXL DOES GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THIS!!!! He's stated so over and over, in no uncertain terms ... NO REUNION EVER!!! 

[D-GenerationX]

You don't truly accept the label as boogeyman theory but you don't seem to have a problem with the theory that Axl is the boogeyman and has offered nothing to meet the label half way??

Or to put it another way, my speculation is dangerous and unfair, but yours is all good in the hood.

Ultimately, we don't have proof of either theory.  But I do reject that we should accept one over the other, simply because it paints Axl in a better light. 

It seems to come down to what you want to believe.

[GypsySoul]

You don't truly accept the label as boogeyman theory but you don't seem to have a problem with the theory that Axl is the boogeyman and has offered nothing to meet the label half way??

Or to put it another way, my speculation is dangerous and unfair, but yours is all good in the hood.

No where did I say or suggest that your speculation was "dangerous and unfair" or that I'm 100% correct.
(though I do think that you're a bit melodramatic suggesting that Axl is not "interested in moving forward with [his] life and career" because he's more than likely opposed to your 'if there's a future reunion' contract idea.)

Ultimately, we don't have proof of either theory.

Exactly.  And IMO that's the way it should be with these (or most) types of business dealings.  A lot of maneuvering (and/or manuring) goes on behind the scenes that are just part of the process and don't mean a hill of beans at the end of the day.

But I do reject that we should accept one over the other, simply because it paints Axl in a better light. 

But you don't seem to cut Axl any slack at all.  Whereas you think he should cow down to the suits.

It seems to come down to what you want to believe.

And that's why on the sixth day God created Jarmo and fan forum discussions. 

[D-GenerationX]

But you don't seem to cut Axl any slack at all.  Whereas you think he should cow down to the suits.

I know it seems like that, really, I do. 

I guess the best way to put it is that my prime concern is always moving forward and seeing this current band succeed.  That is primary to me.  And if that means that Axl has to eat some shit, or schmooze a little bit, well...that's life in the big city.  I place little to no importance on Axl having his feelings hurt.  So when I hear arguments like he felt he was disrespected and whatnot...please.  You're a grown man. 

And that's why on the sixth day God created Jarmo and fan forum discussions.

I will always be swimming upstream at this site, and I recognize and accept that.  But I like posting here because its different than the other sites.  Its a different perspective.

But the bottom line is that I am never going enter into a discussion like this from a starting point that Axl is obviously not at all in the wrong, so let's go from there.  Sometimes, yeah, he's in the wrong.  Its no crime to say so.

[GypsySoul]

And if that means that Axl has to eat some shit, or schmooze a little bit, well...that's life in the big city.

I think even Axl agrees with this sentiment.

I place little to no importance on Axl having his feelings hurt.  So when I hear arguments like he felt he was disrespected and whatnot...please.  You're a grown man.

Don't know who argued that Axl feels disrespected or whatever but it sure wasn't me.
Again, I think Axl would agree with your/this sentiment here also. 

I will always be swimming upstream at this site, and I recognize and accept that.  But I like posting here because its different than the other sites.  Its a different perspective.

I think you're misconstruing my (and maybe Jarmo's & other's) perception of your posts.
I can only speak for myself but IMO you seem to genuinely be a fan of GNR (past, present, future).
But I also believe your posts are 95% negative towards the present and future GNR.  Playing 'devil's advocate' is all well and good (especially on a fan forum) but when the majority of your posts are negative toward Axl and the current line-up then some people [here] are going to perceive you as just another troll.
 

But the bottom line is that I am never going enter into a discussion like this from a starting point that Axl is obviously not at all in the wrong, so let's go from there.  Sometimes, yeah, he's in the wrong.  Its no crime to say so.

Yes, sometimes he is wrong.  But sometimes he is right, too and might even actually being doing what he believes is in the best interest of the band and the fans.

[D-GenerationX]

I think you're misconstruing my (and maybe Jarmo's & other's) perception of your posts.
I can only speak for myself but IMO you seem to genuinely be a fan of GNR (past, present, future).
But I also believe your posts are 95% negative towards the present and future GNR.  Playing 'devil's advocate' is all well and good (especially on a fan forum) but when the majority of your posts are negative toward Axl and the current line-up then some people [here] are going to perceive you as just another troll.

Yes, all very true.  And I can roll with that.

In terms of how my posts come across, here is what I try to do.  Probably no great secret, but I don't share a lot of the views and opinions of the gang here.  But I will often accept their premise for the purposes of having a conversation and ask some question based on that premise.  The result is obviously that is seems like I'm looking for a fight 24/7.  I'm not.  I'm just trying to see where they are coming from.  And yes, sometimes with the hopes of illustrating that some of the theories I'm presented with don't hold up.

I do not consider myself a troll for a few reasons.  First and foremost, I don't hate the current band or pine for some reunion that will never happen.  But the biggest reason is that anyone here can see what I type on other sites.  I truly feel I make a concerted effort to tone it down around here and color within the lines.  I may challenge certain assertions, but I try to do it in a somewhat respectful way.

[Ali]

I think Gypsy has a valid point.  Axl has never wavered in his stance that a reunion will never happen.  Signing some kind of document that alludes to that even being a remote possibility may be distasteful to him.  I'm not saying that's good or bad.  But, when you are absolutely dead set against something, attaching your to name to a document that concedes what you hate, a reunion, is a even a faint possibility, may be difficult.

Well, not if you are interested in moving forward with your life and career.

Look, this is all wildly hypothetical.  Who the hell knows if this could even be a thing that happens?  I don't.  We are just spitballin' here.

But its troubling to hear you guys say that even if it were a real world scenario, you think it all makes perfect sense to play it that way.  Sign an ultimately meaningless peace of paper and have a career, or "not give in" and waste the rest of your life in a stalemate as you show those basterads, you show them good.

That makes no sense to me.

This is only one theory though.  I'd be equally arguing just sitting down and mending fences with the label to continue that way should be a possibility.  

What's important here is progress.  At least to me.  

Not making excuses why its not only cool, but also totally rational, to throw the rest of your life away.

I'm not saying that there isn't some cost to that stance.  Don't mistake my words as implying that.  It's just an attempt to discuss and understand a hypothetical stance.

For all we know, an agreement that should there be a reunion, the band would work with UMG may not be so clear cut.  We have to keep in mind that Axl owns the rights to the band name Guns N' Roses.  So, if there were to be a reunion there are two options.

Option 1:  The old band could be brought back as employees, which would just mean a change in band membership.  What if it isn't a full reunion?  What if only Izzy and Duff come back, or only Slash and Duff?  Could that leave some ambiguity as to what is and isn't a reunion and therefore subject to the terms of this hypothetical scenario?

Option 2:  The old band, either in part or full, are brought back as partners and sign a new partnership agreement.  How does that change the applicability or legal validity of something Axl signed when Guns N' Roses was operating with him in sole control of the band name?

So, let's just take a step back and consider that this hypothetical agreement, while an interesting idea, may be extremely problematic in terms of practicality, before going too far down the road on this discussion as this being a legitimate option.

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

All very true, Ali.  And very vaild.