Guns N' Roses Facebook Update

[D-GenerationX]

What do you base this on? And define short and long term.
No new album? But we know songs exist.

I do not see an album in 2014 or 2015 (short term).  Based on the general attitude and statements made by Axl, I don't see one after that either (long term).

Do songs exist?  Who the hell knows?  Yeah, we have been told they exist.  People also tell me there is a God in heaven.  But neither can be shown to me, so its really a matter of faith on both counts.  You have to want to believe.  But I'm not sure you can get super salty like you do when someone questions either.
 

- confirmation from current band members they have yet to write a note together

Confirmation from other band members that they have written songs on their own for GN'R.

Ron has told us on more than one occasion they have not written a note together in his now 8 years in the fold.

Also pretty consistently tells us there are no plans for any sort of release, so best not to think its on the way.

- little visible enthusiasm to ever start writing, recording, or releasing anything

Well, I get that you'd want that but considering the past and how it backfired, maybe the more cautious approach has its reasons. I know you don't wanna hear that.

I would again point to Ron's own statements.  I have no reason to believe he is lying to us, and I sure don't have anything I can point to that refutes his claims.

Of those 20-25 songs they play each night, the lion's share of them were written, recorded, and originally performed by other people.  Even of the 4-5 that make the setlist from the last album, the majority of the guys that wrote, recorded and performed those songs are gone too.  Bucket, gone.  Robin, gone.  Paul, gone.  Brain, gone.  And the few flourishes here and there that guys like Bumble and Frank had cut and pasted over top of the existing songs weren't exactly crucial contributions.  And Ashba is not on there at all.

But I said majority. Axl, Dizzy, Chris and Tommy were there. Richard joined in 2002.

Again, song writing credits to define a band? Matt Sorum, Gilby Clarke or Dizzy had zero song writing credits on the songs they performed on the Use Your Illusion tour. Was that an issue? No.

With the exception of Gilby who joined mid tour under the dire circumstance of Izzy suddenly quitting, the other guys on stage played on the 30 tracks that were released before that tour.  Axl, Slash, Duff, Matt, Dizzy are on those 30 tracks.  Even on the pre-UYI tracks they play, you still have the majority of the creative forces behind them on stage in the form of Axl, Slash, and Duff.  

Compare that to the current situation.  Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, and Chris meet that same standard, at least for the CD songs.  The lead guitarist (DJ) is quite literally not on one track.  Bumble and Frank had a few flourishes shoehorned over top of existing songs to give the impression of collaboration.  In actual fact, they weren't really involved in their creation.

I don't see this as a realistic comparison, for those reasons.

As both I and a few others have said, you could replace literally every other human being on that stage other than Axl Rose and the show goes on without missing a beat.

So? Just because he was there since day one and is the most recognized member of the band doesn't mean the others aren't part of the band.

They are part of the current touring band, yes.

"I was going to go see Guns N' Roses when they came around.  But then I heard DJ Ashba and/or Bumblefoot dropped out, so I'm out too" is not a thing that is said by anyone with any sort of regulatity.  

That's the point being made here.  

Here's a question for you. Let's say GN'R put out a live track for download. Would that make the band a real band overnight?

No, not really.  I would agree with you.

But a track with a (Rose/Ashba/Thal/Stinson) liner note sure would.  Hell, even a new track written by guys like Bucket, Robin, and Brain would qualify, provided the current guys on the stage played on the track.  Its not as ideal as the first example, but its a step in the right direction, isn't it?

[D-GenerationX]

I don't know what you mean about the "real band over night" thing, but my initial point was that these guys, especially DJ & Bumble, are being under-utilized if they are only to be part of a GNR touring band going forward.  Even they would tell you as much in a moment of honesty.  Without putting  a real mark on new music, moreso for DJ since Ron appeared on Chinese, there's no real reason for casual fans to bond with them.  Only hardcore fans on the forums care about Ballad of Death.  Most people at the shows have no idea what they're hearing.  He could be improvising for all they know & care.

Yep.

And I actually think both men have talent.  I know there are segments that shit on both of them, but I am not in their number.  I'd like to see what they could do collaborating with Axl, who I also obviously think is very talented.

[jarmo]

I do not see an album in 2014 or 2015 (short term).  Based on the general attitude and statements made by Axl, I don't see one after that either (long term).

Without knowing any details regarding that, and since I don't own a crystal ball. But speaking from experience. I wouldn't lose hope of 2014 in February. You could've made the same statement in February or even May 2008, and look what happened...

Yeah, we have been told they exist.

Yes.

People also tell me there is a God in heaven.  But neither can be shown to me, so its really a matter of faith on both counts.  You have to want to believe.  But I'm not sure you can get super salty like you do when someone questions either.

When the guy you hold responsible for not wanting to release music talks about song titles and so on, it's kinda credible source of information.... Don't you think?

 

Ron has told us on more than one occasion they have not written a note together in his now 8 years in the fold.

Also pretty consistently tells us there are no plans for any sort of release, so best not to think its on the way.

It still doesn't mean that much, at the end of the day.

Who wrote November Rain. Axl Rose. It wasn't the whole band writing the song in one room. Nothing new.

There's no simple answer for your quest for the ultimate GN'R album. Because everybody wants different things. Some want the best possible songs on the album, no matter when it was recorded or who was in the band at the time. Others want this current line up to be in a room and write the whole album together to make them a "real" band.

Imagine this, GN'R puts out an album with the tracks that didn't make it onto Chinese Democracy. Great songs, like Chinese. Fans enjoy them. But will that be good for some? Of course not, there'll be people saying it's not by the current band.

Another scenario, band goes into a studio, records an album from scratch, Bumble gets to write with the while band. Album comes out, great stuff, fans enjoy it. And then some wonder why the Chinese era tracks weren't released...

I would again point to Ron's own statements.  I have no reason to believe he is lying to us, and I sure don't have anything I can point to that refutes his claims.

I wouldn't say he's lying, but he's one band member. None of the things said over the years refute what somebody else has said. You only focus on Ron.

With the exception of Gilby who joined mid tour under the dire circumstance of Izzy suddenly quitting, the other guys on stage played on the 30 tracks that were released before that tour.  Axl, Slash, Duff, Matt, Dizzy are on those 30 tracks.  Even on the pre-UYI tracks they play, you still have the majority of the creative forces behind them on stage in the form of Axl, Slash, and Duff.

Compare that to the current situation.  Axl, Dizzy, Tommy, and Chris meet that same standard, at least for the CD songs.  The lead guitarist (DJ) is quite literally not on one track.  Bumble and Frank had a few flourishes shoehorned over top of existing songs to give the impression of collaboration.  In actual fact, they weren't really involved in their creation.

I am comparing.

Sure, they played on the Illusion tracks. But Axl, Tommy, Richard, Bumblefoot, Frank, Dizzy and Chris also plays on the Chinese Democracy album! Only one of the current band members isn't on the album because he joined after its release. Just like Gilby.

Why do you think Frank and Bumble were on the album? Because they're in the band!

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Bumble say he created his own parts?

I don't see this as a realistic comparison, for those reasons.

I do, because most of the current band is featured on the latest GN'R album. You can't deny it. Just because Robin, Buckethead,, Paul and Brain had a part in it too, doesn't mean the others didn't.

Most of current Guns N' Roses performs on the Chinese Democracy album. Just like most of the Illusion line ups performed on those albums.

"I was going to go see Guns N' Roses when they came around.  But then I heard DJ Ashba and/or Bumblefoot dropped out, so I'm out too" is not a thing that is said by anyone with any sort of regulatity.  

That's the point being made here.

Because this isn't a Dj Ashba or Bumblefoot fan site. But to say nobody goes to see GN'R because of those guys? I wouldn't make that statement.

But a track with a (Rose/Ashba/Thal/Stinson) liner note sure would.  Hell, even a new track written by guys like Bucket, Robin, and Brain would qualify, provided the current guys on the stage played on the track.  Its not as ideal as the first example, but its a step in the right direction, isn't it?

Once again, so it's who records it. And as I pointed out, the most of this band already appear on Chinese.... With the exception of Dj.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Without knowing any details regarding that, and since I don't own a crystal ball. But speaking from experience. I wouldn't lose hope of 2014 in February. You could've made the same statement in February or even May 2008, and look what happened...

I absolutely feel you can write off 2014, just based on their already known touring plans.  Its not going to leave a lot of time for studio time and finishing touches, and I don't think its fair to expect them to do that.  Its not terribly realistic to think they will tour for most of the year and then get back in the studio the next week.  They would need time to decompress and I don't think that's some unreasonable stance.

The unknown would be 2015.  But, I would say I am as unconvinced I will have to admit being wrong if an album comes out as I am unconvinced you or anyone else would be forthcoming with an admission of being wrong on 1/1/16 if nothing has been done.  But, that's also part of the beauty of being a waffler that never takes a firm stance.  Its hard to be wrong when you won't give an opinion.

When the guy you hold responsible for not wanting to release music talks about song titles and so on, it's kinda credible source of information.... Don't you think?

All theoretical and potential. 

My personal feeling for years has been that songs exist in various forms of completion, and if further work needed to be done, its most probably vocals.  But, I recognize I can no more prove that than you (or anyone) could disprove it.  We just don't know.

 

There's no simple answer for your quest for the ultimate GN'R album. Because everybody wants different things. Some want the best possible songs on the album, no matter when it was recorded or who was in the band at the time. Others want this current line up to be in a room and write the whole album together to make them a "real" band.

Imagine this, GN'R puts out an album with the tracks that didn't make it onto Chinese Democracy. Great songs, like Chinese. Fans enjoy them. But will that be good for some? Of course not, there'll be people saying it's not by the current band.

Another scenario, band goes into a studio, records an album from scratch, Bumble gets to write with the while band. Album comes out, great stuff, fans enjoy it. And then some wonder why the Chinese era tracks weren't released...

All true.

But let's get real here.  In either example, the dissenting group is far less important and I'd also argue less vocal.  If you are still hanging in there in 2014, you want new stuff.  Yes, you may have a preference how that comes about.  So much so that you will have no time for the other option?  Seems hard to believe.

For example, I have said for years that the best case scenario is a new album done by the current band.  But I also recognize that Axl might not want to scrap all that has been done entirely.  I can respect that.  In that case, I would say it makes more sense if you have the current guys re-record a song if you feel that strongly about it. 
But, if he felt they should be released as is with guys like Bucket or Robing on there, so be it.

At the end of the day, having something in some form beats the shit out of having nothing.  I may have my own opinions on preference, but not to the point it has to be my way or the highway.  And I think trying to pretend that because there is a segment that will not be happy regardless is an excuse to not try ANY of those approaches is a phony argument.  That's just excuse making to explain away the inactivity.

The argument that you are going to make something for 100% of the fans, but 10% might not like it so why even bother, is a poor one, in my view.     

I wouldn't say he's lying, but he's one band member. None of the things said over the years refute what somebody else has said. You only focus on Ron.

I greatly appreciate his candor.  I'll take his more definitive answers about what our expectations should be over vague crap like "don't know, we'll see" or "not my call, that's up to Axl."  I'd also argue that last answer doenst' do much to refute the claim this is not really a band in the conventional sense.

Ron is basically telling us not to hold our breath.  And he usually says he knows that's not the answer we want, but he feels he should be honest.  As a fan, I appreciate that.

Sure, they played on the Illusion tracks. But Axl, Tommy, Richard, Bumblefoot, Frank, Dizzy and Chris also plays on the Chinese Democracy album! Only one of the current band members isn't on the album because he joined after its release. Just like Gilby.

Why do you think Frank and Bumble were on the album? Because they're in the band!

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Bumble say he created his own parts?

As I believe I said, Frank and Bumble are on there to give the impression of collaboration.  Basically, so people such as yourself can make this flimsy argument you are making.
 
Take Ron's contribution to 'I.R.S'.  Or Frank's to 'There Was A Time'.  I think they are fine, but I'm not going to go overboard saying they changed the song all that much or were some sort of game changer.  A drum fill here, a riff there, on top of a current song is what it is.  I listened to those leaks for years, like a lot of fans.  When I got the finished products, I obviously noticed the changes.  But at no time did I view them as entirely new songs transformed by the cut & paste jobs overtop of the leaked versions I had for years.

I don't see this as a realistic comparison, for those reasons.

I do, because most of the current band is featured on the latest GN'R album. You can't deny it. Just because Robin, Buckethead,, Paul and Brain had a part in it too, doesn't mean the others didn't.

Most of current Guns N' Roses performs on the Chinese Democracy album. Just like most of the Illusion line ups performed on those albums.

We are at another one of our differences of opinion, it seems.

I don't think the comparisons of those 2 fellas on CD stands up to the UYI era band working on, recording, and releasing the UYI albums.  I find that a strained comparison for the reasons I already laid out.  Those reasons don't come with an edict you have to accept my opinion or else, obviously.  But I will say I would have no qualms making my argument to a third party and see if they feel it stands up.

"I was going to go see Guns N' Roses when they came around.  But then I heard DJ Ashba and/or Bumblefoot dropped out, so I'm out too" is not a thing that is said by anyone with any sort of regulatity.  

That's the point being made here.

Because this isn't a Dj Ashba or Bumblefoot fan site. But to say nobody goes to see GN'R because of those guys? I wouldn't make that statement.

Well, I would.

And I would say a large part of that is because Axl and Team Brazil have done such a poor job putting the current guys over and making them better known.  You tend to be one of the few people I come across that doesn't think its odd or at all troubling that no one knows who is in this band, even after all this time.  I would argue that the reason for that stance is to avoid having to say anyone in the GNR camp dropped the ball.  That would be my opinion on the reason, and its clearly not a stance I agree with.

But a track with a (Rose/Ashba/Thal/Stinson) liner note sure would.  Hell, even a new track written by guys like Bucket, Robin, and Brain would qualify, provided the current guys on the stage played on the track.  Its not as ideal as the first example, but its a step in the right direction, isn't it?

Once again, so it's who records it. And as I pointed out, the most of this band already appear on Chinese.... With the exception of Dj.

Your original question was about some live track. 

What you have quoted here is my answer to that question.  I agreed a live track of a song they didn't write would not do much to make them seem more like a legit band.  I then laid out 2 examples I felt make better cases, and I stand by both.

[sky dog]

Jesus, at some point you just have to let it be...my god, get over it. Every thread comes down to your same old petty grievances. I am an old school fan but have accepted it for what it is.

[D-GenerationX]

Jesus, at some point you just have to let it be...my god, get over it. Every thread comes down to your same old petty grievances. I am an old school fan but have accepted it for what it is.

Today's conversation is about the current state of the band and its future, not "same old petty grievances."

We are three guys having a conversation.  From the looks of things, the only conversation going on here today. 

Don't like it, don't read it.  We seem to be doing OK with it.  If its not for you, its not for you.  No worries.

[sofine11]

Jesus, at some point you just have to let it be...my god, get over it. Every thread comes down to your same old petty grievances. I am an old school fan but have accepted it for what it is.

Uh, I think we're having a good conversation.  I don't think anyone needs to get in a twist over it.

[D-GenerationX]

Jesus, at some point you just have to let it be...my god, get over it. Every thread comes down to your same old petty grievances. I am an old school fan but have accepted it for what it is.

Uh, I think we're having a good conversation.  I don't think anyone needs to get in a twist over it.

Yeah, I don't get the beef.

You, Jarmo and I spent a slow morning at work having a pretty civil conversation despite our vast differences of opinion on most things.

Where is the harm?  And again, what else is going on here today?  Start a new topic if this one bugs you that much, I'd say.  Maybe that takes off. 

But chiming in mid-conversation to say you aren't enjoying it...what's that getting you?

[jarmo]

Its hard to be wrong when you won't give an opinion.

My opinion is that I won't write off a whole year in February. How is that not an opinion?

I think the difference is in how you see things. I could say "Yes, I think they'll release an album in 2014" or "nope". But for me to say either one, I would need something to make me say it. You take the no comments from Axl and comments from Ron and run with it to a "no". While I need a bit more than that.

All true.

But let's get real here.  In either example, the dissenting group is far less important and I'd also argue less vocal.  If you are still hanging in there in 2014, you want new stuff.  Yes, you may have a preference how that comes about.  So much so that you will have no time for the other option?  Seems hard to believe.

The question is, when you get that new material, will it make people happy? Sure, for a while. But soon after, some will find things that are wrong with it.
Maybe I'm a bit cynical after reading years of comments from certain fans. It's almost like some aren't interested in having a new album to enjoy, they just want something new to dissect.

The argument that you are going to make something for 100% of the fans, but 10% might not like it so why even bother, is a poor one, in my view. 

   

No, the point is that whatever the band does, some will find faults in it. So the whole idea that a new album is the answer to all troubles isn't necessarily 100% accurate. Yes, they say they want an album now, but then you know there's more to it. There's always some unspoken disclaimer.

I'm aware that you can never please everybody. Just focus on making what you think is right. Which is what GN'R's always been about. Some obviously still don't get it.

Ron is basically telling us not to hold our breath.  And he usually says he knows that's not the answer we want, but he feels he should be honest.  As a fan, I appreciate that.

Which is pretty much what Axl's saying by not saying anything.

Take Ron's contribution to 'I.R.S'.  Or Frank's to 'There Was A Time'.  I think they are fine, but I'm not going to go overboard saying they changed the song all that much or were some sort of game changer.  A drum fill here, a riff there, on top of a current song is what it is.  I listened to those leaks for years, like a lot of fans.  When I got the finished products, I obviously noticed the changes.  But at no time did I view them as entirely new songs transformed by the cut & paste jobs overtop of the leaked versions I had for years.

It's you personal opinions.

But you can't argue that they're not on the album.

I don't think the comparisons of those 2 fellas on CD stands up to the UYI era band working on, recording, and releasing the UYI albums.  I find that a strained comparison for the reasons I already laid out.  Those reasons don't come with an edict you have to accept my opinion or else, obviously.  But I will say I would have no qualms making my argument to a third party and see if they feel it stands up.

Yet, Bumblefoot is featured on every track....

Well, I would.

And I would say a large part of that is because Axl and Team Brazil have done such a poor job putting the current guys over and making them better known.  You tend to be one of the few people I come across that doesn't think its odd or at all troubling that no one knows who is in this band, even after all this time.  I would argue that the reason for that stance is to avoid having to say anyone in the GNR camp dropped the ball.  That would be my opinion on the reason, and its clearly not a stance I agree with.

Remember when Axl was on TV, and he answered the question who's in the band? And at every show, he's not exactly trying to hide who's in the band....

Anyway, if you'd go to a GNR show, you'd notice that those guys do have fans...

Your original question was about some live track.

Sure, since releasing music seems to be the way you guys think a band is created/validated.

What you have quoted here is my answer to that question.  I agreed a live track of a song they didn't write would not do much to make them seem more like a legit band.  I then laid out 2 examples I felt make better cases, and I stand by both.

So, it's not about releasing music. It's about who writes, records and releases it.

Was the line up with Gilby, that only released cover songs, a "real" band? That exact line up didn't manage to write one single original song and release it. Songs that weren't even written by GN'R members.

How about the AFD GN'R itself? Was it a band prior to their first release? From June 1985 to December 1986, they weren't a real band?


/jarmo

[sofine11]

Jesus, at some point you just have to let it be...my god, get over it. Every thread comes down to your same old petty grievances. I am an old school fan but have accepted it for what it is.

Uh, I think we're having a good conversation.  I don't think anyone needs to get in a twist over it.

Yeah, I don't get the beef.

You, Jarmo and I spent a slow morning at work having a pretty civil conversation despite our vast differences of opinion on most things.

Where is the harm?  And again, what else is going on here today?  Start a new topic if this one bugs you that much, I'd say.  Maybe that takes off. 

But chiming in mid-conversation to say you aren't enjoying it...what's that getting you?

Exactly.  I work at a TV station with two screens on my desk, one for work, one for pretty much reserved for my online bullshit.  The three of us are chatting about our favorite band to kill time.  What's the harm?

Jarmo can hold his own btw.  He doesn't need anyone to chime in telling us to lay off.

[GeorgeSteele]

Did you guys hear about the issues Def Leppard is having with Universal Music? Never was a fan of them, but it's kinda telling that even they have issues with the label...





/jarmo

Yes, basically UMG won't make some of their hit songs digitally available unless the band agrees to a royalty rate that is much lower than what Def Leppard gets for CD sales. So the band decided to re-record the songs and released them digitally on their own.  

I have no doubt that the vast majority of musicians have issues with their label.  I think most of them just cave.  I'm glad that Axl doesn't.  Fuck the labels.  I may be in the minority on this, but if the choice is (1) no new album or (2) new album only if Axl has to eat the label's shit, then I would take no album.  With his great music and performances over the years, the man has enriched my life way too much for me to thank him by demanding new music at his expense.  

[D-GenerationX]

Quote from: jarmo on Today at 19:26:43

My opinion is that I won't write off a whole year in February. How is that not an opinion?

Oh, I was referring to my opinion there will be no new album this year or next.

I would say no.  And I'd be willing to listen to someone that told me they disagreed, and here is why they think it will.  I don't have as much interest in being told I can't possibly be right, and the counterargument is that you don't know either...but yeah, I'm probably wrong.  I see a disconnect there.


Quote from: jarmo on Today at 19:26:43

I think the difference is in how you see things. I could say "Yes, I think they'll release an album in 2014" or "nope". But for me to say either one, I would need something to make me say it. You take the no comments from Axl and comments from Ron and run with it to a "no". While I need a bit more than that.

Fair.

But, as I said, I wouldn't really fault them if it does not happen this year, given their touring commitments. 


Quote from: jarmo on Today at 19:26:43

The question is, when you get that new material, will it make people happy? Sure, for a while. But soon after, some will find things that are wrong with it.  Maybe I'm a bit cynical after reading years of comments from certain fans. It's almost like some aren't interested in having a new album to enjoy, they just want something new to dissect.

I'm not sure that's a terribly healthy way to live though.  Can't go through life in constant fear you might always have detractors, either reasonable and unreasonable.

Axl has made explicit statement that if you didn't like CD, you probably won't like the next one.  It seems like he's made his peace with it.


Quote from: jarmo on Today at 19:26:43

No, the point is that whatever the band does, some will find faults in it. So the whole idea that a new album is the answer to all troubles isn't necessarily 100% accurate. Yes, they say they want an album now, but then you know there's more to it. There's always some unspoken disclaimer.

I'm aware that you can never please everybody. Just focus on making what you think is right. Which is what GN'R's always been about. Some obviously still don't get it.

So what's the alternative?  To just give up? 

Both Axl and you at times have made the point that he didn't do all this work to never have it see the light of the day.  So let it see the light of day, I'd argue.  Compromising your plans because of a few angry wack-a-doos on the internet seems foolish to me.

The oft repeated "fuck the haters" mindset this band supposedly has is not terribly congruent with this thinking they are paralyzed by what those "haters" might say, you know?

Ron is basically telling us not to hold our breath.  And he usually says he knows that's not the answer we want, but he feels he should be honest.  As a fan, I appreciate that.

Which is pretty much what Axl's saying by not saying anything. Wink

Oh, I'd agree.

But you also pretty consistently tell me that his lack of saying anything should not be taken as proof of lost interest or nothing else forthcoming.  So which is it?  it can't be both.

Take Ron's contribution to 'I.R.S'.  Or Frank's to 'There Was A Time'.  I think they are fine, but I'm not going to go overboard saying they changed the song all that much or were some sort of game changer.  A drum fill here, a riff there, on top of a current song is what it is.  I listened to those leaks for years, like a lot of fans.  When I got the finished products, I obviously noticed the changes.  But at no time did I view them as entirely new songs transformed by the cut & paste jobs overtop of the leaked versions I had for years.

It's you personal opinions.

But you can't argue that they're not on the album. Wink

Well...no, obviously not.  But I was taking things a little deeper than simply taking attendance.

Remember when Axl was on TV, and he answered the question who's in the band? Wink And at every show, he's not exactly trying to hide who's in the band....

Anyway, if you'd go to a GNR show, you'd notice that those guys do have fans...

The last one I went to, I was actually rather encouraged so many did know all the words to the newer songs.

I had anticipated a bunch of people up and grooving during a 'Rocket Queen', but then sitting on their hands for a 'Street Of Dreams'.  That was not the case.

Sure, since releasing music seems to be the way you guys think a band is created/validated.

I find it the difference between a conventional band and a touring band/hired hand type of a set-up.

In fact, its only with this band (and often only at this particular board) that is considered some radical stance.

So, it's not about releasing music. It's about who writes, records and releases it.

Was the line up with Gilby, that only released cover songs, a "real" band? That exact line up didn't manage to write one single original song and release it. Songs that weren't even written by GN'R members.

Huh?  Are you trying to make the argument that 'The Spaghetti Incident' album deserves its own era in the GNR timeline?

[D-GenerationX]

Jarmo can hold his own btw.  He doesn't need anyone to chime in telling us to lay off.

Hahahaha.  No doubt.

I've been to a lot of message boards about a lot of topics.  Some with very strong factions and opinions.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone like Jarmo at any board.  The dude is hardcore on message, always.  We may not always agree, but I would never question either his resolve or entertain the notion he needs assistance to state his case.

[Siamese Democracy]

Jarmo is a lion!   He is a great debater and he is resilient!

I am fine what the status quo is.  I can't wait for Vegas I so psyched.  Regarding the new album though  can't someone just ask Axl?  It would save a lot of speculation.   

[jarmo]

And I'd be willing to listen to someone that told me they disagreed, and here is why they think it will.  I don't have as much interest in being told I can't possibly be right, and the counterargument is that you don't know either...but yeah, I'm probably wrong.  I see a disconnect there.

Well, I already said why I disagree with a definite "no". Because we're only in February! To me it makes no sense to say something when there's no concrete info to go on that suggest it's definitely a "no". You got your hunch, fair enough.

I'm not sure that's a terribly healthy way to live though.  Can't go through life in constant fear you might always have detractors, either reasonable and unreasonable.

Didn't say anybody did. Just pointing out reasons why I don't buy the "we just want a new album" thing.
The album is just for now, after that, there's gonna be a "need" for something else.

The same thing happens with shows. It's always "Please come to ______ !!!!!". As soon as a show is announced there, it's "please do this!", "please do that!". And here I thought all you wanted was the show. 
You know?

I mean, it's great that there's "demand", don't get me wrong. But it's all just a line of needs after another.

So what's the alternative?  To just give up?

You just do what you want and believe in. If it annoys D-GenX, too bad.

But you also pretty consistently tell me that his lack of saying anything should not be taken as proof of lost interest or nothing else forthcoming.  So which is it?  it can't be both.

By not talking about something, you're not getting people's hopes up. But it doesn't mean you got no interest in doing something.

Even back last year he said "a definite maybe" to the question about new GN'R music in 2013. So, there's interest. There was no "absolutely not".

Well...no, obviously not.  But I was taking things a little deeper than simply taking attendance.

Yeah, but then it's about what you think is important.

I had anticipated a bunch of people up and grooving during a 'Rocket Queen', but then sitting on their hands for a 'Street Of Dreams'.  That was not the case.

My favorites are the ones yelling for Paradise City since the start of the show. 

Huh?  Are you trying to make the argument that 'The Spaghetti Incident' album deserves its own era in the GNR timeline?

Trying to understand your definition of a band.
Since it's not a group of people who perform music together.... Especially if they've done it for a while...


So would you say GN'R wasn't a band until December 1986 when they released their EP?

Jarmo is a lion!   He is a great debater and he is resilient!

Pisces actually.



/jarmo

[jarmo]

Sorry D-GenX, I accidentally hit the wrong button and instead of quoting I accidentally modified your post.
I think I got all your original content back.




/jarmo

[sofine11]

For the record, despite my differences in opinion(s) with Jarmo at times, I do feel this is the best run GNR forum.  Here, you can have clear conversations and debates without it feeling like a psych ward for underage basket cases.  He's obviously doing something right.  Which is why we so often bug him. 

[D-GenerationX]

My favorites are the ones yelling for Paradise City since the start of the show. 

Hahahaha.

Yeah, have they never seen a show?  Heard a bootleg?

That also goes for the people that think there is another song.  Nevermind all that confetti dropping from the ceiling.

Trying to understand your definition of a band.
Since it's not a group of people who perform music together.... Especially if they've done it for a while...

I don't think its all that radical.  Its a group of musicians that create, record, and release original material.

The argument that started all this is that its hard to consider this current line-up that sort of band.  Mainly because the current group has not done any of that.

Let's attack this another way.  I consider the 'Chinese Democracy' line-up to be :

Axl
Bucket
Robin
Richard
Tommy
Brain
Dizzy
Chris

In other words, the circa 2002 band.  If those guys were still together, we are not having this conversation.  They would be Guns N' Roses.  They created, recorded, and released an album and toured behind it.  Yes, they would still be playing certain songs from the back catalog that they had nothing to do with, but they would have at least the most current album as a testament to what they are capable of and had done.  And presumably, more albums to follow.  With each subsequent one, we would have more of an idea of what they are about.

The current band :

Axl
DJ
Richard
Ron
Tommy
Frank
Dizzy
Chris

...we got nothing.  What they are capable of and all about remains to be seen.  A legit 50% of that roster is doing 25 songs a night they had zero input in creating.

Hence, touring band.  At least, as of this date.

[D-GenerationX]

For the record, despite my differences in opinion(s) with Jarmo at times, I do feel this is the best run GNR forum.  Here, you can have clear conversations and debates without it feeling like a psych ward for underage basket cases.  He's obviously doing something right.  Which is why we so often bug him. 

I think I agree.

The knock you hear about this place is that certain topics are verboten.  But, to be honest, I don't even disagree on that policy.  Its absolutely nice to be able to read through threads here without having to talk about pipe dream reunions how band members are fat and ugly.  Not productive conversation.

Also not found here, knock down drag outs between 2 posters that hate each other.  How many times at MYGNR will a thread be going along and then an entire page is a wall of quoted text with the only addition being personal insults?  Followed by the entire thing quoted and then a personal insult in return. 

Are we in high school?

[sofine11]

For the record, despite my differences in opinion(s) with Jarmo at times, I do feel this is the best run GNR forum.  Here, you can have clear conversations and debates without it feeling like a psych ward for underage basket cases.  He's obviously doing something right.  Which is why we so often bug him. 

I think I agree.

The knock you hear about this place is that certain topics are verboten.  But, to be honest, I don't even disagree on that policy.  Its absolutely nice to be able to read through threads here without having to talk about pipe dream reunions how band members are fat and ugly.  Not productive conversation.

Also not found here, knock down drag outs between 2 posters that hate each other.  How many times at MYGNR will a thread be going along and then an entire page is a wall of quoted text with the only addition being personal insults?  Followed by the entire thing quoted and then a personal insult in return. 

Are we in high school?

It really is surreal there nowadays.  Once in a great while, I'll see a thread title which might look like it actually contains an interesting conversation, only to click on the most recent pages only to find it riddled with fighting and insults hurled back and forth.  People seemingly insult band members just to get under another posters skin.  Bizarre doesn't begin to cut it.

And the threads that are actually active on point are discussing whether the band can successfully cover a song no one cares about from the 70s.  Pass.