Guns N' Roses Facebook Update

[jarmo]

What is the correct way to market a hard rock album in 2014? 

Don't know anything about marketing and all that.

But from what I've seen, it seems like records are marketed for "everybody" and then considered failures because they don't sell what's expected. Maybe this has been done, I don't know, but how about you aim the sales to the fans you have and don't worry about all the Starbucks visiting Mumford & Sons fans?

I think that's what independent companies/artists do. They know their fans, they're not trying to sell platinum and compete against Justin Bieber.


/jarmo

[GypsySoul]

and for the record... im not the type who bashes Axl pseudo family for no reason or hates Chinese Democracy because it doesnt sound like Appetite

and for the record... I'm not the type who points things like this out to pseudo fans for no reason but referring to GNR management as 'Axl pseudo family' IS bashing.

[Siamese Democracy]

Did anyone ever stop to think UMG may have awarded GNR a contract that includes another album, but the deal was agreed to when physical cd's were still a lucrative business?   Now, they may have crunched the numbers to know the deal is outdated so they don't want a new album.   

[GNR2014]

and for the record... im not the type who bashes Axl pseudo family for no reason or hates Chinese Democracy because it doesnt sound like Appetite

and for the record... I'm not the type who points things like this out to pseudo fans for no reason but referring to GNR management as 'Axl pseudo family' IS bashing.

Gypsy, I have always loved your posts, but I am compelled to chime in here. Beta and her beautiful kids are not related by blood in any way to Axl Rose, but they ARE his family, his "pseudo-family."

I don't think any one means any disrespect by using this term.

We are all fans here.

[Princess Leia]

Well there is a place where people still buy albums, in fact rock albums

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-26139327

Maybe Axl should move to England   

[GNR2014]

Well there is a place where people still buy albums, in fact rock albums

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-26139327

Maybe Axl should move to England   

I buy a handful of CDs every week. 

[JAEBALL]

and for the record... im not the type who bashes Axl pseudo family for no reason or hates Chinese Democracy because it doesnt sound like Appetite

and for the record... I'm not the type who points things like this out to pseudo fans for no reason but referring to GNR management as 'Axl pseudo family' IS bashing.

Gypsy, I have always loved your posts, but I am compelled to chime in here. Beta and her beautiful kids are not related by blood in any way to Axl Rose, but they ARE his family, his "pseudo-family."

I don't think any one means any disrespect by using this term.

We are all fans here.

yeah seriously... pseudo is by definition who they are... I didn't mean it as an insult

the same way some posters get attacked for always being negative... some posters need to chill out with the defense lawyer syndrome

[JAEBALL]

What is the correct way to market a hard rock album in 2014? 

Don't know anything about marketing and all that.

But from what I've seen, it seems like records are marketed for "everybody" and then considered failures because they don't sell what's expected. Maybe this has been done, I don't know, but how about you aim the sales to the fans you have and don't worry about all the Starbucks visiting Mumford & Sons fans?

I think that's what independent companies/artists do. They know their fans, they're not trying to sell platinum and compete against Justin Bieber.


/jarmo

Maybe Axl's reluctance has something to do with he knows that even tho the market is so different today... that if it doesnt sell like its 1992 he will be bashed for it anyway, even tho its not in any way possible sell like the old band did

just a thought

[Ginger King]

Jarmo, you keep reminding people that complaining about a new album won?t make it come any quicker.  True, but also pretending everything?s a ok, and that several years is the normal gestation period for an album (where we know (not actual knowledge but have been led to believe by pieces of information) most of the songs, in one form or another already exist), doesn?t really advance the ball either, does it?

Also, dismissing the fact that the current lineup, which has been stable and together for several years (200+ shows), has yet to write one note of one original song, also doesn?t move things along.  That?s a fact, confirmed by band members.  Sure, DJ may have written a riff or a lyric or two, but the band hasn?t recorded anything or sat together in a room to record.  Chalking that up to, well not everyone needs to be together to record an album, just glosses over the issue.

Your position seems to be to anyone that questions what?s going on: you don?t know the ?facts? (which, btw, will never be revealed to you), you?re wrong, you should be unconditionally happy with what you?ve got and you?re just a negative troll and not a true fan.

Sorry, I?m not going to have blind faith that things are on the up and up?and you can?t really fault people who want to take a see it when they believe it approach.  You quoted Axl?s comments from 2011 and 2012 about a new album and having to work things out with the label, blah, blah, blah.  What?s happened in the intervening 2 to 3 years?  We don?t know?and we?re left to speculate.  It?s either 100% the label?s fault, some combination of label plus GnR, or nothing?s wrong (and stop saying that it is, troll). 

All we got are Axl?s tweets on the Danish Zoo, which don?t shed much light on the topic.  But we?re not just going to wait and see what happens?that defeats the whole purpose of a forum. 

[jarmo]

Jarmo, you keep reminding people that complaining about a new album won?t make it come any quicker.  True, but also pretending everything?s a ok, and that several years is the normal gestation period for an album (where we know (not actual knowledge but have been led to believe by pieces of information) most of the songs, in one form or another already exist), doesn?t really advance the ball either, does it?

I'm not pretending. Are you?

My opinion is, if something is out of your hands, it's waste of time to complain about it year after year. It just makes that person sound like a whiny person. Who wants to be around those?
Maybe you're not aware of this, but we've been here before. Those years before Chinese came out. Exactly the same. Except there was no tours to talk about. No official web site. No Axl tweets. I'm talking about years like 2003-2005 now...


We're not talking about some kind of protests for human rights, against racism or something here. There's a lot of injustices in the world, yet not having a new GN'R album isn't really on that list.

Also, dismissing the fact that the current lineup, which has been stable and together for several years (200+ shows), has yet to write one note of one original song, also doesn?t move things along.  That?s a fact, confirmed by band members.  Sure, DJ may have written a riff or a lyric or two, but the band hasn?t recorded anything or sat together in a room to record.  Chalking that up to, well not everyone needs to be together to record an album, just glosses over the issue.

Who's dismissing anything?

Some of you use that single quote as some kind of reason why nothing has been done regarding the next album. I simply don't agree.

Your position seems to be to anyone that questions what?s going on: you don?t know the ?facts? (which, btw, will never be revealed to you), you?re wrong, you should be unconditionally happy with what you?ve got and you?re just a negative troll and not a true fan.

No, my position is: If you got nothing nice to say about anything, you probably need to change your point of view because that kind of existence seems quite depressing. These same people who "question" things, aren't interested in hearing anything else than their point of view. I offer them a discussion, different point of views and what happens? I get attacked. 

Sorry, I?m not going to have blind faith that things are on the up and up?and you can?t really fault people who want to take a see it when they believe it approach.  You quoted Axl?s comments from 2011 and 2012 about a new album and having to work things out with the label, blah, blah, blah.  What?s happened in the intervening 2 to 3 years?  We don?t know?and we?re left to speculate.  It?s either 100% the label?s fault, some combination of label plus GnR, or nothing?s wrong (and stop saying that it is, troll). 

I posted those quotes because it seems like some people "forgot". Those were his words about the issue. Do some of you believe him? Of course not.


Anyway, we're getting really off topic here. The update wasn't about this. It was about thanking all of us fans. And some of you felt targeted because whoever posted the update pointed out that some "trolls" like to frequent the GN'R Facebook page.



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

As to whether he feels that he bears any responsibility for the state of limbo he's in, Rose says: "You can say it's my fault, but to me it's like if you're on a plane and somebody trips you and the air marshal arrests you for falling ? like it's my fault for allowing somebody to trip me?"[/i]
Los Angeles Times - December 21st, 2011

True.

But at some point, you pick yourself back up.  You don't spend wasted time just laying there feeling sorry for yourself.

[Ginger King]

I posted those quotes because it seems like some people "forgot". Those were his words about the issue. Do some of you believe him? Of course not.


Anyway, we're getting really off topic here. The update wasn't about this. It was about thanking all of us fans. And some of you felt targeted because whoever posted the update pointed out that some "trolls" like to frequent the GN'R Facebook page.



/jarmo


[/quote]

Fair enough.  Back on point.  The update wasn?t just about thanking the fans.  It was also about sending a big FU to the ?loud, obnoxious? individuals, whom you refer to as ?a little clique of internet trolls.?

If it is such a little clique of trolls, why even bother mentioning them?  I think it?s up for debate whether it was intended for a small group, or whether it?s aimed at anyone that isn?t 100% on message.

You seem to paint many of us with a broad brush where any criticism (whether of the true bullshit variety or legitimate comments about the direction/future of the band) are instantly labeled trolls and not ?true fans.?

To me, it seems like the same broad brush was used in the FB update.

[Siamese Democracy]

I agree with Jarmo.  This site is rated "G" compared to the hate spewed on other GNR fan sites.  There are some people that say after day post in threads at other sites full of insults and attacks.  Some people also do it on Facebook.  It gets to the point where if you hate the band that much, you shouldn't be in the community.  It's not healthy for the the fan base, nor the individual wasting their own time posting.   Axl was talking about hateful trolls.  He wasn't talking about any of the people posting in this thread because I do believe behind the constructive criticism, there is a passionate fan in all of us.  If deep down you don't have that passion, move on, life is too short.   

[D-GenerationX]

What is the correct way to market a hard rock album in 2014? 

Its not rocket science, I don't think.  The rest of the entire industry doesn't seem to just be a constant state of wonder of anything can ever get done.  Clearly, it can be done.

I would imagine step one is doing some proper interviews with people.  That takes, what, a phone call?  An hour of your time?

And an interview where you talk about your band, and your music, and what you will be doing.  You get people focused on your work.    

But not yet another rambling rendition of how hard life is and how its a constant struggle against the forces of evil.  That "woe is me" tale is not only long past tired at this point, its for damn sure not getting anyone excited about your latest endeavor.

This is my band.  I'm excited to play with these guys.  Here is what we did.  Check it out.

The usual misdirection point to cut this conversation off before it starts tends to start out "It's not 1991 anymore...".  But the topic is promotion and not a history lesson.  Just because albums don't sell like 20 years ago doesn't meant the same basic, fundamental concepts of promotion are extinct.

It's about want to.  

[D-GenerationX]

I agree with Jarmo.  This site is rated "G" compared to the hate spewed on other GNR fan sites.  There are some people that say after day post in threads at other sites full of insults and attacks.  Some people also do it on Facebook.  It gets to the point where if you hate the band that much, you shouldn't be in the community.  It's not healthy for the the fan base, nor the individual wasting their own time posting.   Axl was talking about hateful trolls.  He wasn't talking about any of the people posting in this thread because I do believe behind the constructive criticism, there is a passionate fan in all of us.  If deep down you don't have that passion, move on, life is too short.   

Agreed.

I see these guys on other sites with profile sigs about how the last GNR show was 7.17.93.  So why the hell are you still here? 

[D-GenerationX]

Back on point.  The update wasn?t just about thanking the fans.  It was also about sending a big FU to the ?loud, obnoxious? individuals, whom you refer to as ?a little clique of internet trolls.?

If it is such a little clique of trolls, why even bother mentioning them?  I think it?s up for debate whether it was intended for a small group, or whether it?s aimed at anyone that isn?t 100% on message.

You seem to paint many of us with a broad brush where any criticism (whether of the true bullshit variety or legitimate comments about the direction/future of the band) are instantly labeled trolls and not ?true fans.?

To me, it seems like the same broad brush was used in the FB update.

All true.

And just...why?  That's what it comes down to.  Why give negative people that don't like you and never will your time?  Fuck 'em.  Lost causes that don't matter. 

It muddles up what should be a good message.  "Hey, we're getting back out on the road.  See you out there in 2014!"  Done.

But not, "Hey, we're getting back out on the road.  Which I know some of you out there don't want to see, but that's just too damn bad.  You're just a bunch of god damn idiots anyway.  See the rest of you out there in 2014!"

[jarmo]

The update wasn?t just about thanking the fans.  It was also about sending a big FU to the ?loud, obnoxious? individuals, whom you refer to as ?a little clique of internet trolls.?

If it is such a little clique of trolls, why even bother mentioning them?  I think it?s up for debate whether it was intended for a small group, or whether it?s aimed at anyone that isn?t 100% on message.

From my point of view, there's many reasons why you'd bring an issue up.

I'll give you an example. There's people who will register on a fan forum, post shit and attack other posters. Sometimes followed with a "Ban me if you want, I don't care" message. What happens next? Some of them move on to the next forum and go on about how they were innocently banned by some evil dictator for "speaking the truth".

You can ignore it, or you can say "look, we know what you're doing and if you get kicked out, don't say you weren't warned". You can't hide behind the "I'm innocent" excuse after that.

Sometimes attack is the best defense.

You seem to paint many of us with a broad brush where any criticism (whether of the true bullshit variety or legitimate comments about the direction/future of the band) are instantly labeled trolls and not ?true fans.?

Not really.
There's two kinds of criticism: Constructive and pointless complaints for the sake of complaining.

Guess which one gets boring after a few years....

The whole true fans thing is a sore spot for some. I know that.
It's almost like questioning somebody's manhood (not talking about genitals here)!  It can be hilarious at times.

Be honest. Don't you think it's a bit "worrying" if somebody would mistake you for not being a fan because of what you constantly say? Meaning, if you hardly ever say anything nice about your favorite band, why is it surprising if somebody asks you if you're actually a fan of the band at that particular point in time?

If you take two people, one is a fan, the other not, and they both pretty much complain about how the band sucks. How do you tell them apart? Because the other swears he's a fan?




/jarmo

[14 Yrs Of Silence]

What is the correct way to market a hard rock album in 2014? 

Don't know anything about marketing and all that.

But from what I've seen, it seems like records are marketed for "everybody" and then considered failures because they don't sell what's expected. Maybe this has been done, I don't know, but how about you aim the sales to the fans you have and don't worry about all the Starbucks visiting Mumford & Sons fans?

I think that's what independent companies/artists do. They know their fans, they're not trying to sell platinum and compete against Justin Bieber.




/jarmo

I agree 100% with this sentiment.  But its also up to the band to feel comfortable targeted their true fans and not getting discouraged when your albums today don't sell like they did over 20 years ago.  Comments like, whats the point of making new records these days is deflating to the true fans who've been here forever supporting this thing.

[Ginger King]

The update wasn?t just about thanking the fans.  It was also about sending a big FU to the ?loud, obnoxious? individuals, whom you refer to as ?a little clique of internet trolls.?

If it is such a little clique of trolls, why even bother mentioning them?  I think it?s up for debate whether it was intended for a small group, or whether it?s aimed at anyone that isn?t 100% on message.

From my point of view, there's many reasons why you'd bring an issue up.

I'll give you an example. There's people who will register on a fan forum, post shit and attack other posters. Sometimes followed with a "Ban me if you want, I don't care" message. What happens next? Some of them move on to the next forum and go on about how they were innocently banned by some evil dictator for "speaking the truth".

You can ignore it, or you can say "look, we know what you're doing and if you get kicked out, don't say you weren't warned". You can't hide behind the "I'm innocent" excuse after that.

Sometimes attack is the best defense.

You seem to paint many of us with a broad brush where any criticism (whether of the true bullshit variety or legitimate comments about the direction/future of the band) are instantly labeled trolls and not ?true fans.?

Not really.
There's two kinds of criticism: Constructive and pointless complaints for the sake of complaining.

Guess which one gets boring after a few years....

The whole true fans thing is a sore spot for some. I know that.
It's almost like questioning somebody's manhood (not talking about genitals here)!  It can be hilarious at times.

Be honest. Don't you think it's a bit "worrying" if somebody would mistake you for not being a fan because of what you constantly say? Meaning, if you hardly ever say anything nice about your favorite band, why is it surprising if somebody asks you if you're actually a fan of the band at that particular point in time?

If you take two people, one is a fan, the other not, and they both pretty much complain about how the band sucks. How do you tell them apart? Because the other swears he's a fan?




/jarmo

You just proved my point (I think).  Never have I (or other like-minded posters like D-X, Jaeball, and Princess Leia?apologies if I?m incorrectly lumping you guys in with me) complained about how this band sucks.  Ever.  In fact, a lot of my posts talk about wanting this band?with this lineup?to succeed, and how I think they can best achieve that.

You seem to interpret that, and any constructive criticism, as people complaining about ?how the band sucks.?  This is where I?m getting the broad brush from.  But now you seem to be saying constructive criticism is ok?or at least tolerated for the purposes of discussion.

Or maybe I took offense to you questioning my manhood?

[jarmo]

I must've missed all those constructive parts in the posts!

I don't see how saying something that was done in 1992 for example is great while the same done in 2012 is nothing special.
Is that constructive?
I don't see victimizing yourself every time somebody speaks out against a few bad apples is constructive.


Ok, you want the band to succeed. I think the majority of the fans does. How are you gonna make that happen?
The lame excuse is to say "I can't make the band succeed". Will posting things that make people question whether or not you're a fan of GN'R in 2014 make the band succeed? Of course not.


Edited to add: An example. The band announces shows. That's met with "we want a new album!". How is that helping the band succeed?

Do you think everybody says they want the band to succeed is actually meaning it? Or could it just an excuse to get what they want? Let's say they want an album, so everything else the band does is not a good idea in their opinion. In their opinion, the only way to succeed is to release a new album. How is that a guarantee for success? For years we heard about Axl needs to release Chinese Democracy to succeed. He did it and nothing changed for the people who want him to succeed..... They just kept finding things that were wrong and bad.



I don't know why some are so upset to begin with. Maybe they want to be upset? Every fan should know by now that the GN'R ship doesn't always sail the shortest way from port to port. We all know that. Yet some get upset that they get a longer cruise than their personal preference... Just enjoy the cruise and relax! Occasionally there might be some icebergs in the way, but don't worry, it'll get there.

If you don't believe in that, maybe you need a different ship...


And since you probably forgot, sure it'd be awesome to have more albums out. But we don't and no matter how hard you bang your head against the wall won't change it.






/jarmo