Is Interscope/Geffen Blocking The Next Album's Release?

[sofine11]

"Look, we'd love to have you in the band.  Here's what I'm thinking.  We'll work on it for a few years, then sit and do nothing for a few more.  Eventually, we will start some overdubs and mixing and whatnot.  I'm thinking, um...10 years.  Give or take.

Then, 2 months before it drops...and here's the beauty...I'm nowhere to be found.  I'm AWOL.  The album is released under the cover of night.  Next to no one but the already long suffering fans that have stuck with me for 20 years will even know about it.  So, what's up?  You in?  Could be great, right?"

Think that was the pitch? 

LMAO 

And here we are in 2014, more than 5 years later.  Already half the time it took to record and release the most notorious album of all time, still no closer to the next release.  And this, after promises from various members that it would not take as long to put out.  Nice.

[D-GenerationX]

What do you call a person who will label somebody as bitter for not getting "over things" yet they are acting that way themselves?

Please tell me you don't honestly think I am basing that comment on this one single instance.

I've been a fan of this man since 1988.  He's stubborn, petty, childish, and extremely angry as a person. 

Here is why he needs to get "over things".  Actually, let me stop there.  If he has no interest in being a relevant or even serious band, no, he doesn't need to do shit.  He can keep taking a rotating touring band around the world playing the same 25 songs every 2 years.  If that's all he's looking for, he's already got it.

But if he actually intends to continue as a viable artist, throwing darts at a poster of the label's logo ain't getting it done.

A rational, adult person...that's actually interested in continuing as an artist...sits down with the label and has a conversation.  Here's what he didn't like.  Here's where he thought he got screwed.  Inevitably, they will come back with complaints of their own.

So you hash it out.  You move on and set up future plans.

Or you remain content with what you have now, which ain't much.  But at least it won't take any extra effort.

[jarmo]

I've been a fan of this man since 1988.  He's stubborn, petty, childish, and extremely angry as a person.

How many hours of personal time did you spend with Axl to come to this conclusion?

It's difficult to take the rest of your post seriously after you made that remark. So let's just focus on your opening salvo here and answer my question. Thanks.




/jarmo

[Dead N' Bloated]

I've been a fan of this man since 1988.  He's stubborn, petty, childish, and extremely angry as a person.

How many hours of personal time did you spend with Axl to come to this conclusion?

It's difficult to take the rest of your post seriously after you made that remark. So let's just focus on your opening salvo here and answer my question. Thanks.




/jarmo

It's ridiculous when people comment on someone's personality, as though it's fact, when they have spent absolutely no time talking with the person.



 

[One.In.A.Million]

If it really is the case that the label are in a standoff with Axl/GN'R in regards to how to release this thing, then why don't they try to force his hand. For instance we all know how Axl hated Greatest Hits being released so why don't they try to push through another compilation?. Like a Greatest Hits Vol. 2, to kind of say to Axl, if you don't negotiate we'll release "something"...

[el_loko]

A rational, adult person...that's actually interested in continuing as an artist...sits down with the label and has a conversation. 

There was conversation, don't you remember this legend 3 hour meeting ?

[D-GenerationX]

I've been a fan of this man since 1988.  He's stubborn, petty, childish, and extremely angry as a person.

How many hours of personal time did you spend with Axl to come to this conclusion?

It's difficult to take the rest of your post seriously after you made that remark. So let's just focus on your opening salvo here and answer my question. Thanks.

We spent a week together down in Cabo.  We had neighboring villas.  We had plans for dinner, but he no showed.

Give me a fucking break, Jarmo.  That is the lamest argument going.  I need to bunk with him for a summer to make an assessment?  Never mind 25 years of comments, actions, and decisions he's made.  Please.

Put it this way.  If he's not any of those things I said, he's engaged is the longest bit of performance art known to mankind.  He must be having quite a laugh.

[D-GenerationX]

It's ridiculous when people comment on someone's personality, as though it's fact, when they have spent absolutely no time talking with the person.

If that is your barometer in life, then why ever talk about anything, ever, other than your own immediate family? 

Can't talk politics.  Don't know the President.  Can't talk sports.  Don't know the quarterback.  Can't talk about any celeb in any field.  Never had dinner with them.

Does that make sense?

[D-GenerationX]

If it really is the case that the label are in a standoff with Axl/GN'R in regards to how to release this thing, then why don't they try to force his hand. For instance we all know how Axl hated Greatest Hits being released so why don't they try to push through another compilation?. Like a Greatest Hits Vol. 2, to kind of say to Axl, if you don't negotiate we'll release "something"...

Honestly, I don't think the label spends any serious amount of time talking about Guns N' Roses?

But if they did, yeah, I think your suggestion would be the way to go.  I just have to wonder if they basically consider themselves done with him.  He's most certainly not giving them much reason to keep tabs, unfortunately.

[Ginger King]

I've been a fan of this man since 1988.  He's stubborn, petty, childish, and extremely angry as a person.

How many hours of personal time did you spend with Axl to come to this conclusion?

It's difficult to take the rest of your post seriously after you made that remark. So let's just focus on your opening salvo here and answer my question. Thanks.




/jarmo

It's ridiculous when people comment on someone's personality, as though it's fact, when they have spent absolutely no time talking with the person.



 

So, in your logic, you can't have an opinion on someone's personality unless you've spent ___ hours with them and know them personally?  Well, that clearly puts Axl beyond all reproach.  Sorry, but that doesn't apply to public figures.  I've spent 0 hours with Lindsay Lohan, but can pretty much make an informed observation (what you call fact) that she's a train wreck. 

Axl's history of agression, hostility towards the record company, past band members, domestic issues, etc., are well-documented, but unless we're BFF's we can't comment on them?  That's absurd, and a very convenient way to dismiss the disucssion.  You also deflected answering the rest of the post, which I thought brought up some good points.

[jarmo]

Just because you've been a fan for decades, read every interview, analyzed every lyric, every note, doesn't mean you know the person. What you might have an idea about is the public person.
If you were a fan of KISS in the 70s, would you have expected them to wear those clothes and make up in private? Hey, they always looked like that when you saw them!


Some people need to take a step back and realize just because you listen to somebody's songs don't mean you know that person.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

So, in your logic, you can't have an opinion on someone's personality unless you've spent ___ hours with them and know them personally?  Well, that clearly puts Axl beyond all reproach.  Sorry, but that doesn't apply to public figures.  I've spent 0 hours with Lindsay Lohan, but can pretty much make an informed observation (what you call fact) that she's a train wreck. 

Axl's history of agression, hostility towards the record company, past band members, domestic issues, etc., are well-documented, but unless we're BFF's we can't comment on them?  That's absurd, and a very convenient way to dismiss the disucssion.  You also deflected answering the rest of the post, which I thought brought up some good points.

Yeah, pretty weak they way they both used the opening line to disregard the rest of my post.  Even weaker as Jarmo not 2 posts prior was chiding me for not addressing his points.

But the gist of your post is obviously correct.  And the Lohan example is a good one.  Like Axl, I'm sure Lindsay has personal friends that play the "you don't know her like I do" card.  But as you correctly point out, she's given us quite a bit to go on.  Any public figure does.  How you carry yourself and act is going to affect how you are viewed.  And if you spend 25 years with a hair trigger temper and a history of not playing well with others...guess what?  That's who you are in the public's eyes.

[D-GenerationX]

Some people need to take a step back and realize just because you listen to somebody's songs don't mean you know that person.

Fine. 

But that was a throwaway intro line that you hopped on to avoid addressing the rest of my post.  So let's concede I don't know Axl.  Fine. 

What about the rest of the stuff I said?  I addressed your points in detail after you asked me to make the effort.  Only fair I'm extended the same courtesy, no?

So here we go :

Here is why he needs to get "over things".  Actually, let me stop there.  If he has no interest in being a relevant or even serious band, no, he doesn't need to do shit.  He can keep taking a rotating touring band around the world playing the same 25 songs every 2 years.  If that's all he's looking for, he's already got it.

But if he actually intends to continue as a viable artist, throwing darts at a poster of the label's logo ain't getting it done.

A rational, adult person...that's actually interested in continuing as an artist...sits down with the label and has a conversation.  Here's what he didn't like.  Here's where he thought he got screwed.  Inevitably, they will come back with complaints of their own.

So you hash it out.  You move on and set up future plans.

Or you remain content with what you have now, which ain't much.  But at least it won't take any extra effort.

Thoughts?

[jarmo]

I'm guessing your source for the info on what he didn't do with the label is from the same source as your analysis of him as a person?
Your own mind.


As I said. And you seemed to have missed. He had issues with the label before Chinese. He managed to get over those and allow them to release the album. He's had issues playing shows in certain places, he overcame those and played successful shows in those cities. Just some examples of him moving on.

And you now say he should talk to the record company blah blah blah, but at the end of the day you're assuming he hasn't or wouldn't. Because that fits your idea of how he is. Because you've been a fan for a long time.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Looks like you need to go see The Wizard, Jarmo.

[pilferk]

Just because you've been a fan for decades, read every interview, analyzed every lyric, every note, doesn't mean you know the person. What you might have an idea about is the public person.
If you were a fan of KISS in the 70s, would you have expected them to wear those clothes and make up in private? Hey, they always looked like that when you saw them!


Some people need to take a step back and realize just because you listen to somebody's songs don't mean you know that person.




/jarmo

I'll concede we might not "know him".

But he has shown us "enough" to base some theorycrafting on.  You can argue the foundation isn't rock solid...and I'd agree with you.  But we go by what we're shown...and there's no evidence available to us to contradict it.  It's not just his public persona, either...it's interviews with other, ancillary folks involved, it's interviews with HIM, it's reports of his behavior in "non-public", behind the scenes, situations.

I'd not go quite as far in the description as D-GenerationX does.  I'd go with "he can be, at times" or "he seems to be" rather than labeling his behavior in it's entirety or categorically.  And my descriptor would probably be more like "He seems to be someone who can hold a grudge, long term".

But the fact is, it's the face we are often shown.  If you think that portrait unfair....so be it.  But you can certainly understand what the basis for the theorycrafting is, right?

[pilferk]

And you know say he should talk to the record company blah blah blah, but at the end of the day you're assuming he hasn't or wouldn't. Because that fits your idea of how he is. Because you've been a fan for a long time.

/jarmo

I think more because there's been no reported or discernable progress toward releasing new music.....and the theorycrafting that his disharmony with the label might be, at least in part, to blame.

If he's talked to the label, and worked out the differences.....then it's all on Axl and the band.

If he's talked to the label, and been unable to work out the differences...well, some of that is what we're talking about here. 

Again, we don't know.  Because nobody has said much, one way or the other.  It's all supposition (and, I think, labeled as such through most of the thread).

[D-GenerationX]

I'll concede we might not "know him".

But he has shown us "enough" to base some theorycrafting on.  You can argue the foundation isn't rock solid...and I'd agree with you.  But we go by what we're shown...and there's no evidence available to us to contradict it.  It's not just his public persona, either...it's interviews with other, ancillary folks involved, it's interviews with HIM, it's reports of his behavior in "non-public", behind the scenes, situations.

I'd not go quite as far in the description as D-GenerationX does.  I'd go with "he can be, at times", rather than labeling his behavior in it's entirety.  

But the fact is, it's the face we are often shown.  If you think that portrait unfair....so be it.  But you can certainly understand what the basis for the theorycrafting is, right?

All fair.  Well said.

I guess, basically, I just don't find the "geez, where you getting that opinion" from all that realistic.  Not just with Axl, with anyone.  As both you and Ginger King have alluded, people base their opinions on what they are shown.  If someone wanted to tell me Charlie Sheen seems a little out there, I can't really see a plausible counterargument that you don't see what that's based on.  Having eyes, that's what that's based on.  Being minimally observant, that's what that's based on.

I'll concede Axl is not an angry madman 24/7/365 if that makes some sort of difference in all this.  But again, I took the focus on that one specific line as rather transparent way to avoid addressing the other points made.

[D-GenerationX]

If he's talked to the label, and worked out the differences.....then it's all on Axl and the band.

If he's talked to the label, and been unable to work out the differences...well, some of that is what we're talking about here. 

Again, we don't know.  Because nobody has said much, one way or the other.  It's all supposition (and, I think, labeled as such through most of the thread).

Spot on.

As I said in a post earlier in  the week, we are just theorizing as we pass the time.  No one is testifying under oath about any of this.

[pilferk]

As I said. And you seemed to have missed. He had issues with the label before Chinese. He managed to get over those and allow them to release the album. He's had issues playing shows in certain places, he overcame those and played successful shows in those cities. Just some examples of him moving on.

/jarmo

One other thing:

I'd also say that, of late, we've seen some progress, for sure. toward Axl "getting better" at some of the things we've seen from him in the past that I/we view as his "eccentricities".

Not being late on stage.  Reports of mending OTHER fences (both personal and professional...which you allude to above).  Trying to "make things right" more often (again, the shows you allude to).  All that looks like progress.

But...as we alluded to on a different subject earlier in the thread...you see stuff, but you're still a little leary to trust the change is 100% done. But all those points are great counterpoints.....and hopefully it's a sign of good things to come!