Is Interscope/Geffen Blocking The Next Album's Release?

[pilferk]

At the end of the day, nobody here asked Axl what his feelings towards the record company is.

/jarmo

That's true...but I think most people here have been careful to label this conversation as what it is: Theorycrafting.  Much of it based on Axl's responses to similar or related questions.

It very well might not be a fair depiction...I'm not sure if he's bitter or not....or even if "bitter" is the best description, here.  Just as I'm not sure there really IS contention between Axl and the label.

But Axl has certainly been known to hold onto a slight, real or perceived.  And he certainly has said and implied he's not happy with the way the label handled CD's release.

The rest is 100% opinion and some leaps of logic.

Edit: And, as an aside, if I were ever granted the opportunity to ask Axl "20 questions", uncensored, this would be within the first five.

[sofine11]

At the end of the day, nobody here asked Axl what his feelings towards the record company is.


/jarmo

Actually, that would be utterly fantastic if we were given a chance to ask him his current feelings toward the label & the status of the next album.  That said, it seems completely outside the realm of actual possibilities that Axl would care enough to come here discuss either points with the fans.

[D-GenerationX]

You honestly think that if Universal Music said "Ok, we won't make the same mistakes again. Here's our marketing plan, what do you think?", he would just ignore it because of the events of 2008?

Honestly?  Yeah.

This is a guy that thinks Slash needs to get down on his knees to beg forgiveness as an opening move.  I can't see him giving the label any less hard a time.

[D-GenerationX]

At the end of the day, nobody here asked Axl what his feelings towards the record company is.

/jarmo

That's true...but I think most people here have been careful to label this conversation as what it is: Theorycrafting.  Much of it based on Axl's responses to similar or related questions.

It very well might not be a fair depiction...I'm not sure if he's bitter or not....or even if "bitter" is the best description, here.  Just as I'm not sure there really IS contention between Axl and the label.

But Axl has certainly been known to hold onto a slight, real or perceived.  And he certainly has said and implied he's not happy with the way the label handled CD's release.

The rest is 100% opinion and some leaps of logic.

Edit: And, as an aside, if I were ever granted the opportunity to ask Axl "20 questions", uncensored, this would be within the first five.

Absolutely right.  I agree with every word.

I have said similar things.  When the "if you could ask Axl anything" topic comes up, my opener is always the same : "Why do you make things so hard on yourself?"

[D-GenerationX]

At the end of the day, nobody here asked Axl what his feelings towards the record company is.


/jarmo

Actually, that would be utterly fantastic if we were given a chance to ask him his current feelings toward the label & the status of the next album.  That said, it seems completely outside the realm of actual possibilities that Axl would care enough to come here discuss either points with the fans.

It would likely just be more of the same long rambling answers he gave us in the chats.

I thought the funniest thing about the chats were you either got a one liner or meandering paragraph.  No in between.

[jarmo]

You honestly think that if Universal Music said "Ok, we won't make the same mistakes again. Here's our marketing plan, what do you think?", he would just ignore it because of the events of 2008?

Honestly?  Yeah.

This is a guy that thinks Slash needs to get down on his knees to beg forgiveness as an opening move.  I can't see him giving the label any less hard a time.

In short, one is a former band mate who spent years aiding in making sure the public image of Axl was kept on the negative side, the other is a company whose only interest is to make a profit.
There's a difference.




/jarmo

[sofine11]

Jarmo, just out of curiosity, do think if you sent management an email with several approved questions for Axl from the fans, one of them inquiring about his thoughts on the label & feelings about the next album, that you would get so much as an answer?

Would that just be beyond taboo? 

If you feel they would be even the least bit receptive to that, it would be absolutely awesome. You're probably quite literally the only person who could make that happen.

[D-GenerationX]

In short, one is a former band mate who spent years aiding in making sure the public image of Axl was kept on the negative side, the other is a company whose only interest is to make a profit.
There's a difference.

But the overall point I was making is that Axl lets nothing go.  Remember Izzy's story about him being on the phone with him and being able to hear Axl flipping through notes he made about perceived slights from years ago?

As he sees it, he has nothing to apologize for.  He and Slash should just get together and say that shit went down on both sides, but it was 20 fucking years ago and who cares now.  Doesn't mean they have to reform the band, but why be made for the rest of your life?  Its childish.

In terms of he and the label, same thing.  I think the most logical move, for both sides, is to admit mistakes were made.  Again, by both sides.  But that's in the past and then we move on.  Let's do it right this time.  And they both shake on it.

Agree or disagree?

Now, is Axl doing that?  Not on your life.  He sees his 14 month storm off to pout as righteous.  Admitting that was wrong is "giving in" and "letting them win."

Axl rarely sees the big picture.  He can think the label are the biggest assholes walking the Earth.  But not attempting to work past their problems means nothing gets released.  Everyone loses in that scenario.  Well, everyone except Axl and a few of his sycophantic fans that have convinced themselves that he's taking some Ghandi like stance and good for him. 

[D-GenerationX]

Jarmo, just out of curiosity, do think if you sent management an email with several approved questions for Axl from the fans, one of them inquiring about his thoughts on the label & feelings about the next album, that you would get so much as an answer?

Would that just be beyond taboo? 

If you feel they would be even the least bit receptive to that, it would be absolutely awesome. You're probably quite literally the only person who could make that happen.

Yeah, would be cool to read.

But, could be counter productive too.  I can't imagine he has anything nice to say about them.  Could only poison the well further.

[sky dog]

Just curious Sofine, do you go around talking about your personal finances and your business relationships...of course he won't comment on anything more, ever again, than he did in 2008. Get the fuck over it. It's his PERSONAL business and he can run it however the fuck he wants. He can splash the pot in his own club!

[sofine11]

Jarmo, just out of curiosity, do think if you sent management an email with several approved questions for Axl from the fans, one of them inquiring about his thoughts on the label & feelings about the next album, that you would get so much as an answer?

Would that just be beyond taboo? 

If you feel they would be even the least bit receptive to that, it would be absolutely awesome. You're probably quite literally the only person who could make that happen.

Yeah, would be cool to read.

But, could be counter productive too.  I can't imagine he has anything nice to say about them.  Could only poison the well further.

At the very least, it would let us know where we stand with the next album.  Better that than spending another few years wondering if secretly, behind the scenes, Axl is doing all he can to get it out.  Even if he says "Don't know & don't care" again, we'll at least be able to check our expectations going forward.

[jarmo]

But the overall point I was making is that Axl lets nothing go.  Remember Izzy's story about him being on the phone with him and being able to hear Axl flipping through notes he made about perceived slights from years ago?

Yet he performed with Izzy several times since.
Compare that to how he felt about Izzy's departure in 1991. Amazing isn't it?

In terms of he and the label, same thing.  I think the most logical move, for both sides, is to admit mistakes were made.  Again, by both sides.

This makes no sense to me.
If you make "mistakes" because of your employer, are you gonna be all apologetic about it? Even if you know it was their fault?

The fact that you think you know how he feels about these things based on nothing more than a hunch is somewhat astounding. You can find quotes from 2009 or whatever and use them as reasons, but it doesn't change the fact that we don't know how things are in 2014. Or how he would react to working with the record company in the future just because he didn't agree with them in 2008.

Remember, this is the same record company who released Greatest Hits against his wishes. He hasn't exactly brought that up since then, amazing for a guy who never lets anything go isn't it?



/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Just curious Sofine, do you go around talking about your personal finances and your business relationships...of course he won't comment on anything more, ever again, than he did in 2008. Get the fuck over it. It's his PERSONAL business and he can run it however the fuck he wants. He can splash the pot in his own club!

Hahahahaha

Its a faaahhhking joke, anyway.

[D-GenerationX]

At the very least, it would let us know where we stand with the next album.  Better that than spending another few years wondering if secretly, behind the scenes, Axl is doing all he can to get it out.  Even if he says "Don't know & don't care" again, we'll at least be able to check our expectations going forward.

True.  It would certainly solve a lot of this theorizing on him having some masterplan.

[D-GenerationX]

In terms of he and the label, same thing.  I think the most logical move, for both sides, is to admit mistakes were made.  Again, by both sides.

This makes no sense to me.
If you make "mistakes" because of your employer, are you gonna be all apologetic about it? Even if you know it was their fault?

What's gained from that?  Is there some great outcome with that approach I am missing?

Be mad forever?  That's a solution to anything in life?

Most logical people would be pissed at the record company for not doing things a certain way, then take the reins and do what they can to salvage their own project they worked on for 10 years.  Him?  He runs off and sulks and let's the project ultimately make little to no impact because he gave it no chance at success.  Good plan.  He sure showed them.  

The fact that you think you know how he feels about these things based on nothing more than a hunch is somewhat astounding. You can find quotes from 2009 or whatever and use them as reasons, but it doesn't change the fact that we don't know how things are in 2014. Or how he would react to working with the record company in the future just because he didn't agree with them in 2008.

Well, he doesn't talk to us.  Doesn't leave us much choice but to speculate based on the limited breadcrumbs of info he doles out, as well as what we know about how he's conducted himself over the past 25 plus years.

Scenario #1 : He thinks he was done wrong and would cut off his nose to spite his face because no one tells him what to do.

Scenario #2 : He just wants to move past whatever problems there are and get things back on track.  Nothing is gained holding grudges.

What's the more likely scenario, based on what we know of the man?

[jarmo]

What's gained from that?  Is there some great outcome with that approach I am missing?

Be mad forever?  That's a solution to anything in life?

You tell me. Aren't you still "upset" about how the album was promoted? 
No, the point is, you want him to admit that he made mistakes. I'm saying, it's not exactly "fair" to demand somebody to apologize for something that might be a direct result of somebody else's mistake!

Most logical people would be pissed at the record company for not doing things a certain way, then take the reins and do what they can to salvage their own project they worked on for 10 years.  Him?  He runs off and sulks and let's the project ultimately make little to no impact because he gave it no chance at success.  Good plan.  He sure showed them.

Do you realize that we're talking about a human here?
Just asking. Since it's not always easy to keep fighting the good fight after the cows have gone home. You think the players of a team who will finish last no matter how many goals they score in the last game are as excited about the game as they were when the season began months ago?

Well, he doesn't talk to us.  Doesn't leave us much choice but to speculate based on the limited breadcrumbs of info he doles out, as well as what we know about how he's conducted himself over the past 25 plus years.

When he does talk, it's labeled as lies and no good reason to act the way he did.
Like you are doing right now. Not lies, but the other part.... He shouldn't feel this, he shouldn't do that.

Scenario #2 : He just wants to move past whatever problems there are and get things back on track.  Nothing is gained holding grudges.

He's already done this several times.
Not only with his label (Greatest Hits -> Chinese Democracy), but also going back and playing shows in cities where they had issues in the past.

That being said, I'm not saying he will or he won't, because I have no idea what the current status is. I'm also not saying "this is what he'll definitely do because he sang that in that song and said so in that interview in 2009, so I know what he thinks about this subject"....




/jarmo

[sofine11]

At the very least, it would let us know where we stand with the next album.  Better that than spending another few years wondering if secretly, behind the scenes, Axl is doing all he can to get it out.  Even if he says "Don't know & don't care" again, we'll at least be able to check our expectations going forward.

True.  It would certainly solve a lot of this theorizing on him having some masterplan.

Exactly.  We get chided a lot for "theorizing" based on past events, how about those in the loop doing their part to gain a little clarity for the fanbase?

See but thats the thing that's so fucking troubling about this operation.  Be it Jarmo, Fernado, Ron, 4tus, whoever...At the end of the day, no one has the stones to very simply say to Axl "Dude, you talked to them about a bunch of upcoming tracks and told them the next album might come out a year after Chinese.  It's been over five years now and we haven't given them a single update.  What gives?"

A very legitimate question, but the fucking thunder would come down so fast and nobody on the team wants to be in the room when that happens.

[D-GenerationX]

You tell me. Aren't you still "upset" about how the album was promoted? 

Upset?  Not at all.  I think his promotional efforts were a smashing success. 

And I'm not just talking out of my ass here, because I have that huge impact it made on the populance to back me up.  Plus, how hardly anyone ever asks if the band is still even together, because they heard Slash left...or something. 

People are in the know, no doubt.

No, the point is, you want him to admit that he made mistakes. I'm saying, it's not exactly "fair" to demand somebody to apologize for something that might be a direct result of somebody else's mistake!

Here's what's a mistake.  Temper tantrums are a mistake.

10 years he worked on this thing.  If you think the label dropped the ball, you pick it the hell up. 

"Look, we'd love to have you in the band.  Here's what I'm thinking.  We'll work on it for a few years, then sit and do nothing for a few more.  Eventually, we will start some overdubs and mixing and whatnot.  I'm thinking, um...10 years.  Give or take.

Then, 2 months before it drops...and here's the beauty...I'm nowhere to be found.  I'm AWOL.  The album is released under the cover of night.  Next to no one but the already long suffering fans that have stuck with me for 20 years will even know about it.  So, what's up?  You in?  Could be great, right?"

Think that was the pitch? 

[D-GenerationX]

See but thats the thing that's so fucking troubling about this operation.  Be it Jarmo, Fernado, Ron, 4tus, whoever...At the end of the day, no one has the stones to very simply say to Axl "Dude, you talked to them about a bunch of upcoming tracks and told them the next album might come out a year after Chinese.  It's been over five years now and we haven't given them a single update.  What gives?"

Certainly how it appears.

[jarmo]

Instead of focusing so much on adding the sarcasm, how about you focus more on what I said instead...

What do you call a person who will label somebody as bitter for not getting "over things" yet they are acting that way themselves?

You keep repeating the same things over and over again without any evidence of you actually taking in anything I said.

 


/jarmo