Is Interscope/Geffen Blocking The Next Album's Release?

[D-GenerationX]

Why does every discussion have to descend into a dissertation about jarmo, his opinions, and whether he's objective or not?

Because, honestly, it's right fucking boring.  And it has nothing to do with GnR, really.

We can only play the cards we are dealt.   Fact of the matter is that there are not a lot of daily contributors around here these past few months.  The alternative is to have this place go hours if not days with any new posts.  Is that better?  Did we not just establish something is always better than nothing?

The situation will improve once they get back on the road, I should think.  We should at least have some Youtube clips and personal accounts from concerts to facilitate some conversation about actual band related matters.

Imagine if they came out and played 2 honest to god new songs.  How much talking are we really going to be doing about Jarmo's motivations then?  Such conversations are just placeholders until something more relevant comes along.

[sofine11]

Can I ask a question:

Why does every discussion have to descend into a dissertation about jarmo, his opinions, and whether he's objective or not?

Because, honestly, it's right fucking boring.  And it has nothing to do with GnR, really.

If you think jarmo is a lacky, and is being intellectually dishonest...give that due weight to his opinions and move on.

If you think jarmo is giving his honest opinion, and is being straight forward...give that due weight to his opinions and move on.

The constant gamesmanship has gotten old. We get it. You don't think he's credible.  You think he's a lackey.  True or not, you've made your opinion known. You're not doing any one any favors by beating it into the ground, you're not "educating" anyone, and you're not doing a public service to the net by continuing on the seemingly personal crusade against him.  And yes, I know..you'll now insist it's not personal.  I'm telling you: Your posts tell a different story, whether it's the one you want told or not.

 Move the fuck on, already.....everybody gets it.

Please.  Jarmo responds with his opinions, so we respond with ours.  It's called spirited discussion.  It's fun.  

Without it, this and other forums would basically have everyone singing "It's a small world after all...".  

[Ginger King]

Can I ask a question:

Why does every discussion have to descend into a dissertation about jarmo, his opinions, and whether he's objective or not?

Because, honestly, it's right fucking boring.  And it has nothing to do with GnR, really.

If you think jarmo is a lacky, and is being intellectually dishonest...give that due weight to his opinions and move on.

If you think jarmo is giving his honest opinion, and is being straight forward...give that due weight to his opinions and move on.

The constant gamesmanship has gotten old. We get it. You don't think he's credible.  You think he's a lackey.  True or not, you've made your opinion known. You're not doing any one any favors by beating it into the ground, you're not "educating" anyone, and you're not doing a public service to the net by continuing on the seemingly personal crusade against him.  And yes, I know..you'll now insist it's not personal.  I'm telling you: Your posts tell a different story, whether it's the one you want told or not.

 Move the fuck on, already.....everybody gets it.

I know, it's so annoying that people won't let this go and feel the need to post about it...except when you do it, then it's cool?

[D-GenerationX]

Yeah, what's the alternative?  Close the boards until March 16th?

Hell, if they could have gotten that damn DVD out, I imagine we'd be talking about that.  But we can't just invent shit out of whole cloth.  We need some help on that front.

[pilferk]

Why does every discussion have to descend into a dissertation about jarmo, his opinions, and whether he's objective or not?

Because, honestly, it's right fucking boring.  And it has nothing to do with GnR, really.

We can only play the cards we are dealt.   Fact of the matter is that there are not a lot of daily contributors around here these past few months.  The alternative is to have this place go hours if not days with any new posts.  Is that better?  Did we not just establish something is always better than nothing?

I'd prefer no content to this shit.  I bet most of the "regulars" would agree.

Because seeing updates in the threads, and then coming to find out it's more of the same bullshit is, quite frankly, frustrating.

So, in this case...yes..nothing would be better.

The situation will improve once they get back on the road, I should think.  We should at least have some Youtube clips and personal accounts from concerts to facilitate some conversation about actual band related matters.

So...how about you go on "hiatus" with this discussion til then?  So at least there will be some actual content to drown out the crapfest we're getting now?

Deal?

To be clear: I don't care if you're attacking his positions/opinions directly, or saying you disagree.  That's different.

It's the ad hominem/objectivity/jarmo's a shill crap that's boring...not just because it's a rehash, but because, at the end of the day, it doesn't fucking matter one iota.  Everyone is capable of discerning someone else's credibility on their own.  They don't need help....it's not like I've ever seen jarmo edit one of his posts (beyond spelling/grammer) in order to change his meaning.  Every word is right there for every other poster to "consume" and form their own opinion.

Imagine if they came out and played 2 honest to god new songs.  How much talking are we really going to be doing about Jarmo's motivations then?  Such conversations are just placeholders until something more relevant comes along.

Boring, useless, meaningless placeholders.  I'd rather the "place" be held with nothing......

[D-GenerationX]

Good talk.

[pilferk]

Please.  Jarmo responds with his opinions, so we respond with ours.  It's called spirited discussion.  It's fun.  

Without it, this and other forums would basically have everyone singing "It's a small world after all...".  

...and Thank you.

The "opinions" are different.  "I don't think there is a new album because..." is a lot different than "jarmo, you're a shill so why should anyone listen to you".

This isn't "spirited discussion"....at least not the parts pertaining to jarmos relationship to the band and his "credibility".....about GnR.

It's "spirited discussion" about jarmo....who, quite frankly, is a pretty boring topic (no offense, jarmo) when you consider this board is about the band, and not him.

I don't care if you disagree.  By all means, say it and state your case.

But your case shouldn't be "My opinion is more valid because you're an ass"...which is essentially what is going on here.

Attack the post, not the poster.  That clearer?

[sofine11]

I'm glad the band is going to be touring come March.  Honest.  Any activity is better than Axl farting around doing nothing.

But, hell, even Ron said "In my opinion, the fans would rather have us take the time to put out a new album than continue to tour."  But, you know, what would he know?  He's only been lead guitar for the past 8 years.

[Ali]

Except for the fact that there are people who have heard the work, in this case anyone in the band, Marco Beltrami, Sebastian Bach and many others.

I'm not of the opinion that because I haven't heard a song, even though others have, it doesn't exist.  That would be tantamount to saying those that have claimed to heard said song are lying, and I have no reason to say that.

Wait, you are saying one his close friends and a guy he hired came back with good reviews?  The hell you say.

No, I'm actually not saying that at all.

I'm saying those people have heard the songs in question.  Therefore, they exist even though I personally have not heard them.

Ali

[sofine11]

Please.  Jarmo responds with his opinions, so we respond with ours.  It's called spirited discussion.  It's fun.  

Without it, this and other forums would basically have everyone singing "It's a small world after all...".  

...and Thank you.

The "opinions" are different.  "I don't think there is a new album because..." is a lot different than "jarmo, you're a shill so why should anyone listen to you".

This isn't "spirited discussion"....at least not the parts pertaining to jarmos relationship to the band and his "credibility".....about GnR.

It's "spirited discussion" about jarmo....who, quite frankly, is a pretty boring topic (no offense, jarmo) when you consider this board is about the band, and not him.

I don't care if you disagree.  By all means, say it and state your case.

But your case shouldn't be "My opinion is more valid because you're an ass"...which is essentially what is going on here.

Attack the post, not the poster.  That clearer?

It is.  Sorry, I was just referring to my own responses to Jarmo, etc.  I'm not really speaking for anyone else.

[pilferk]

Yeah, what's the alternative?  Close the boards until March 16th?

Hell, if they could have gotten that damn DVD out, I imagine we'd be talking about that.  But we can't just invent shit out of whole cloth.  We need some help on that front.

Better than this...honestly.

What's fucking ironic here is that, in so many of these posts, the "accusations" against jarmo could be turned slightly askew and would pertain to the person posting, too....both in terms of credibility (with slightly different justification) and "open mindedness).  There's so many "Pot. Kettle. Black." moments here...it's the only amusing part of this thread (and it's ilk).

But again: All that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

You all know there is an "Administrator Feedback" section, right?  Maybe we could make a nice "Why jarmo is a shill" thread there and we could keep all the discussion there?  Then those that feel they need catharsis, or need to "score points" in this endless fucking back and forth, could do it there.  Because, honestly...has there been ANYTHING new in THAT discussion posted in this thread?  It all reads as one of the longest, most boring, retread/rehash in HTGTH history (and that covers a lot of fucking ground, let me tell you).

Trust me: We fucking get it.  It's everywhere.  There is a good portion of the GnR fan community who, both here and in other places, think jarmo lacks credibility.

That being said....why beat the dead horse (no pun intended)?  Is there any doubt that the sentiment is already out there?  Does it REALLY need to get brought up in EVERY thread with a somewhat interesting topic? Two and three and four times?

C'mon, man.

[D-GenerationX]

Except for the fact that there are people who have heard the work, in this case anyone in the band, Marco Beltrami, Sebastian Bach and many others.

I'm not of the opinion that because I haven't heard a song, even though others have, it doesn't exist.  That would be tantamount to saying those that have claimed to heard said song are lying, and I have no reason to say that.

Wait, you are saying one his close friends and a guy he hired came back with good reviews?  The hell you say.

No, I'm actually not saying that at all.

I'm saying those people have heard the songs in question.  Therefore, they exist even though I personally have not heard them.

But you see what I am getting at though, right?

Baz is his buddy.  Is there a real chance he going to come out and say he heard the stuff and it was underwhelming?

Marco was paid money to work on the songs.  How likely is he to come out and say that he worked on them but don't get your hopes up, people.

I know someone at Rolling Stone heard some stuff, but that was like 14 years ago now.  And most had no vocals.  But that's the only example I can think of as feedback from someone with no dog in the fight.

[D-GenerationX]

Trust me: We fucking get it.  It's everywhere.  There is a good portion of the GnR fan community who, both here and in other places, think jarmo lacks credibility.

Well, tell me this. 

I and whoever are talking about something.  Just for example, this long rumored DVD release.  We are kicking around what the hell the hold up could be, including some speculation on our parts that Axl is being difficult about something or other.  Or that Team Brazil is just not getting it done.

When Jarmo then comes into the fold to scold us for our insolence, what are we supposed to do?  Just tell him he's probably right and we'll shut up now?  Flat out ignore him entirely?

   

[pilferk]

I'm glad the band is going to be touring come March.  Honest.  Any activity is better than Axl farting around doing nothing.

But, hell, even Ron said "In my opinion, the fans would rather have us take the time to put out a new album than continue to tour."  But, you know, what would he know?  He's only been lead guitar for the past 8 years.

Given the sentiment here at HTGTH, it's hard to argue he's wrong.  I mean...I think many, many fans (myself included) would choose "album" if given the choice between "album of new material" or "tour".  Not all, but an awful lot.

The question is: How feasible, in reality, is an album release?  And what factors may, or may not, get in the way.  Hey...wait...isn't that the very topic of this thread?

But I'll take the tour, and hope they hit CT or NYC.

[D-GenerationX]

I welcome any tour because I'm a bootleg guy.

[pilferk]

Trust me: We fucking get it.  It's everywhere.  There is a good portion of the GnR fan community who, both here and in other places, think jarmo lacks credibility.

Well, tell me this. 

I and whoever are talking about something.  Just for example, this long rumored DVD release.  We are kicking around what the hell the hold up could be, including some speculation on our parts that Axl is being difficult about something or other.  Or that Team Brazil is just not getting it done.

When Jarmo then comes into the fold to scold us for our insolence, what are we supposed to do?  Just tell him he's probably right and we'll shut up now?  Flat out ignore him entirely?

   

You argue your case, if you have one.  Not attack the person who's arguing a counter point.

But, rather than do that, we hear the same old arguments about jarmo's credibility and that his opinion can't have any merit simply because of who he is/what his relationship to the band is.  

Rather than simply providing a well organized, coherent, informative counter point on the TOPIC (which, FYI, isn't jarmo).

If you can't do that...yeah...ignore him.  And let the reader determine his credibility/objectivity through his posts.

Hell..you could just c&p a link to the previous retread/rehash of the same old shit...at least that would be brief.

And to head off the obvious rebuttal: Yes, I know the same thing is done to "the haters".  I object just as strenuously.  But rather than get into a "he started it" discussion...which, quite honestly, I have enough with my 3 children....I'd just point out that, again, it doesn't fucking matter.  

[sofine11]

Trust me: We fucking get it.  It's everywhere.  There is a good portion of the GnR fan community who, both here and in other places, think jarmo lacks credibility.

Well, tell me this. 

I and whoever are talking about something.  Just for example, this long rumored DVD release.  We are kicking around what the hell the hold up could be, including some speculation on our parts that Axl is being difficult about something or other.  Or that Team Brazil is just not getting it done.

When Jarmo then comes into the fold to scold us for our insolence, what are we supposed to do?  Just tell him he's probably right and we'll shut up now?  Flat out ignore him entirely?

   

Really.  It's like there's no room to play Devil's Advocate.  You're either 110% onboard, or you get scolded for your opinion, literally.  See the flip side?  I know the popular response is, "Well, if you don't like it then don't post here." That's just nuts, we shouldn't have to do that.  

The reality is, since the Del Interview in 2009 where Axl made the the "No idea, and don't care" comment regarding the next album, we've seen next to nothing to tell us he's made any changes in his opinion regarding the next album, and remains apathetic.  Add to that, Team Brazil who are, at best, an unproven management team are now at the helm.  They have also not given us one shred of evidence that they are capable of properly motivating Axl and negotiating an album release with the label.

I sincerely hope they can and will prove me wrong.  As it stands, other than sporadic touring, the future looks relatively grim.

[D-GenerationX]

Trust me: We fucking get it.  It's everywhere.  There is a good portion of the GnR fan community who, both here and in other places, think jarmo lacks credibility.

Well, tell me this. 

I and whoever are talking about something.  Just for example, this long rumored DVD release.  We are kicking around what the hell the hold up could be, including some speculation on our parts that Axl is being difficult about something or other.  Or that Team Brazil is just not getting it done.

When Jarmo then comes into the fold to scold us for our insolence, what are we supposed to do?  Just tell him he's probably right and we'll shut up now?  Flat out ignore him entirely?

   

You argue your case, if you have one.  Not attack the person arguing a counter point.

But isn't the obvious starting point of such a conversation "what is that based on?"  Is that an unfair question, as you see it?

[D-GenerationX]

It's like there's no room to play Devil's Advocate.  You're either 110% onboard, or you get scolded for your opinion, literally.  See the flip side?  I know the popular response is, "Well, if you don't like it then don't post here." That's just nuts, we shouldn't have to do that.

It reminds me of people lamenting that they can't attend a concert midweek because the band goes on at 11:30 and they have work the next day, only to be told "then don't fucking go, loser."  Always found that an odd answer.
  

The reality is, since the Del Interview in 2009 where Axl made the the "No idea, and don't care" comment regarding the next album, we've seen next to nothing to tell us he's made any changes in his opinion regarding the next album, and remains apathetic.  Add to that, Team Brazil who are, at best, an unproven management team are now at the helm.  They have also not given us one shred of evidence that they are capable of properly motivating Axl and negotiating an album release with the label.

You know, I had totally forgotten this until you mentioned it last week.  It does sort of bum me out.

I guess I sort of hoped that the general mindset for the next album would be that it can't possibly be as difficult as 'Chinese' was.  That the songs are largely done, and the process should not be such a grind.

Instead, it seems the other way, which sucks for we fans.

[pilferk]

   

You argue your case, if you have one.  Not attack the person arguing a counter point.

But isn't the obvious starting point of such a conversation "what is that based on?"  Is that an unfair question, as you see it?

Nope.  It's not even all that solid of one, given the forum and format.  Hell, even in a court of law/arbitration, witness credibility only goes so far.  And this is decidedly not a court of law.

And if it's your only point (besides speaking to the relatively weakness of your point)....it's a point thats you've beaten to death.

Again....you're belaboring something that is widely known throughout the GnR community.  Yet you seem bound and determined to point it out every single time you can...sometimes 3 and 4 times in the same discussion thread. It's like a dog with a fucking bone, dude.  And, at this point, it adds zip to the conversation/discussion.

Let. It. Go.

Move. On.

We all get it: You don't find him credible.  Great. Wonderful. BORING. And not particularly helpful or compelling.

How about you point it out every 90 days or so...just in case anyone in the web-sphere forgets?