Is Interscope/Geffen Blocking The Next Album's Release?

[JAEBALL]

Is there any factual basis for the belief that the label may be holding a new album back? Or is this pure speculation/propaganda to deflect blame from the most logical culprit? It blows my mind how people can twist and contort themselves out of all logic just to justify an ideology. Why is the simplest answer never the case with these people. Why is there always some complex conspiracy theory??

The fact is Axl took over the GNR name for reasons that have been long debated. it was up to him to justify his actions and step up to the plate. he talked about his visions, talked about recording and talked steering the ship. many people have talked about Slash and Duff being drunks and junkies but they always seemed capable of writing recording and playing on a regular basis. The sober one only managed these things spasmodically. It seems...and I do emphasise that word, that Axl has not had anyone capable of pushing him into releasing music for many years. Perhaps having control is not actually in Axl's best interests?? It certainly hasn't been creatively IMHO.

Face facts. Multiple former (and current) band members, producers and so on have recounted how difficult it is to get Axl to be productive. So what would lead anyone to believe that this isn't the case as far as a new album is concerned?

There is a factual basis to raise the possibility that the label may be unwilling to release a new GN'R album, yes.  Jimmy Iovine brought in Bob Ezrin to work as an A&R-type with GN'R and Axl met with him.  As Ezrin told the story, Axl told him that at the point he wanted to mix the album and thought it was ready for that.  Ezrin disagreed and said the album wasn't ready to mix.  So, someone representing Jimmy Iovine and the label did reject Chinese Democracy in its form then.  Additionally, this is the same label that rejected MIA's latest album multiple times allegedly due to its overly "dark" tone.

So, yes, it's certainly possible.

Ali

I know its not their style to communicate anything....and is probably a bad move legally...but if there efforts are being rejected...I wish they would come out and say that ... It would clear a lot of things up

[Ali]

Is there any factual basis for the belief that the label may be holding a new album back? Or is this pure speculation/propaganda to deflect blame from the most logical culprit? It blows my mind how people can twist and contort themselves out of all logic just to justify an ideology. Why is the simplest answer never the case with these people. Why is there always some complex conspiracy theory??

The fact is Axl took over the GNR name for reasons that have been long debated. it was up to him to justify his actions and step up to the plate. he talked about his visions, talked about recording and talked steering the ship. many people have talked about Slash and Duff being drunks and junkies but they always seemed capable of writing recording and playing on a regular basis. The sober one only managed these things spasmodically. It seems...and I do emphasise that word, that Axl has not had anyone capable of pushing him into releasing music for many years. Perhaps having control is not actually in Axl's best interests?? It certainly hasn't been creatively IMHO.

Face facts. Multiple former (and current) band members, producers and so on have recounted how difficult it is to get Axl to be productive. So what would lead anyone to believe that this isn't the case as far as a new album is concerned?

There is a factual basis to raise the possibility that the label may be unwilling to release a new GN'R album, yes.  Jimmy Iovine brought in Bob Ezrin to work as an A&R-type with GN'R and Axl met with him.  As Ezrin told the story, Axl told him that at the point he wanted to mix the album and thought it was ready for that.  Ezrin disagreed and said the album wasn't ready to mix.  So, someone representing Jimmy Iovine and the label did reject Chinese Democracy in its form then.  Additionally, this is the same label that rejected MIA's latest album multiple times allegedly due to its overly "dark" tone.

So, yes, it's certainly possible.

Ali

I know its not their style to communicate anything....and is probably a bad move legally...but if there efforts are being rejected...I wish they would come out and say that ... It would clear a lot of things up

I understand the sentiment.

But, while that may help us understand the situation, would it really help the situation move towards some kind of resolution?

Maybe it would have no effect.  Maybe it would actually have an adverse effect. 

Ali

[Princess Leia]

Guys let?s face it. Axl doesn?t have a nice and smooth relationship with the industry. And there isn?t buzz out there for a new album. So it doesn?t make sense for Axl and the record company to make an album only because 5 to 10 fans around forums want it.

What should Axl and the record company do? In my own personal opinion they should put 5 new songs on iTunes or Youtube to taste the waters. If there is huge demand and buzz from the general public and the media around the world. Well only then they should release an album. If nobody gives a fuck outside forum. Why bother? Making an album is very expensive and it?s unfair for the band  and the label to lose money.

But at what point do the other guys in the band ask what the hell they are doing here?

Think about it.  We ask it everyday, and we don't even have any skin in this game.  These guys (at least some of them) worked really hard on all this stuff that never gets heard.  That's not frustrating?  They are musicians by trade.  As a rule, they write, record, and release music.

Know what sucks?  This guys have been good soldiers.  I'd argue, WELL above and beyond the call on that front.  One day they are going to say the hell with all of this, and then what will happen online?  People will shit on them for being disloyal and "not onboard".  As if they haven't been sitting patiently for YEARS waiting for something, anything to go on before eventually throwing up their hands.

And the first one to tell me "well, they must be alright with it all because they are still there, smartguy" simply doesn't get the point, and frankly, never will.

What exactly have Robin, Bucket or Tommy done to give an extra push to help the CD sales? What makes you think they care about unreleased music when they didn?t do much on their own to get bigger sales numbers for their released music? There is a new Robin interview. And his comments on CD are kinda too technical. I didn?t see passion and love for the CD material.

I think they have shown they don?t care that much. Most of them have alternative bands. Sixx AM, Dead Daisies, The Replacements. NIN, Bucket and Ron have their own solo projects. They are happy. They are now more famous because of the GN?R name. And they have more fans now. But they haven?t brought new fans into GN?R. How many NIN fans are now also GN?R fans? How many Replacements fans are now also GN?R fans? That?s actually one of my problems with the new guys.

 Sometimes I wish they leave soon. I?m sick of this BS. The problem is the old guys won?t come back. And Axl is too proud and arrogant to see that this whole thing is a bullshit.

[JAEBALL]

My issue with some of the members was that they admitted to not being fans of the music before they joined.... i find that to be extrmeely annoying and troubling.... but they play the songs every night... robin said it, Tommy said it...Fortus said it... and im pretty sure im missing somebody ... at this point I dont think anybody is walking away any time soon... not with a new tour starting up in about 45 days

i think you are right... some of the players are just content with the way things are ... so why make a change...why theya re content... who knows other than themselves

it's true that I had never heard of any them prior to them playing with Axl...id assume thats the number 1 reason to stay



The whole situation as far as the label is obviously really messy.... and it doesnt look like we will be getting any clarifications soon... I'm sure Jarmo knows a lot...but he aint no rat ! 

[JAEBALL]

Is there any factual basis for the belief that the label may be holding a new album back? Or is this pure speculation/propaganda to deflect blame from the most logical culprit? It blows my mind how people can twist and contort themselves out of all logic just to justify an ideology. Why is the simplest answer never the case with these people. Why is there always some complex conspiracy theory??

The fact is Axl took over the GNR name for reasons that have been long debated. it was up to him to justify his actions and step up to the plate. he talked about his visions, talked about recording and talked steering the ship. many people have talked about Slash and Duff being drunks and junkies but they always seemed capable of writing recording and playing on a regular basis. The sober one only managed these things spasmodically. It seems...and I do emphasise that word, that Axl has not had anyone capable of pushing him into releasing music for many years. Perhaps having control is not actually in Axl's best interests?? It certainly hasn't been creatively IMHO.

Face facts. Multiple former (and current) band members, producers and so on have recounted how difficult it is to get Axl to be productive. So what would lead anyone to believe that this isn't the case as far as a new album is concerned?

There is a factual basis to raise the possibility that the label may be unwilling to release a new GN'R album, yes.  Jimmy Iovine brought in Bob Ezrin to work as an A&R-type with GN'R and Axl met with him.  As Ezrin told the story, Axl told him that at the point he wanted to mix the album and thought it was ready for that.  Ezrin disagreed and said the album wasn't ready to mix.  So, someone representing Jimmy Iovine and the label did reject Chinese Democracy in its form then.  Additionally, this is the same label that rejected MIA's latest album multiple times allegedly due to its overly "dark" tone.

So, yes, it's certainly possible.

Ali

I know its not their style to communicate anything....and is probably a bad move legally...but if there efforts are being rejected...I wish they would come out and say that ... It would clear a lot of things up

I understand the sentiment.

But, while that may help us understand the situation, would it really help the situation move towards some kind of resolution?

Maybe it would have no effect.  Maybe it would actually have an adverse effect. 

Ali

You very well might be right, it could make things worse.

[jarmo]

My issue with some of the members was that they admitted to not being fans of the music before they joined.... i find that to be extrmeely annoying and troubling.... but they play the songs every night... robin said it, Tommy said it...Fortus said it... and im pretty sure im missing somebody ...

Why is that an issue? 





/jarmo

[JAEBALL]

My issue with some of the members was that they admitted to not being fans of the music before they joined.... i find that to be extrmeely annoying and troubling.... but they play the songs every night... robin said it, Tommy said it...Fortus said it... and im pretty sure im missing somebody ...

Why is that an issue? 







/jarmo

ha you are the last person im looking to debate anything GNR related with...... 

lets put it this way ... i love the Ny Rangers...and when they got Eric Lindros who bashed the Rangers for years and hated our guts to play for them... I wanted nothing to do with it : )

[jarmo]

I take that as a compliment.


Not exactly the same thing. Lindros was in teams who were competing against the Rangers.
While before joining GN'R, these guys were in bands who weren't necessarily part of the same scene.

It's safe to assume they weren't picked because they were already fans, they were picked because they can play.



/jarmo

[draguns]

I agree with Princess Leia and Jaeball. Princess Leia, you probably missed Brain. He was the one who said he is in it for the money. Nothing will ever beat the original lineup. The chemistry and heart of the originals are unbeatable. The only person that I truly believe has the heart for this lineup is Bumblefoot. I just don't get the same sense of urgency from anyone else.

[westcoast_junkie]

I agree with Princess Leia and Jaeball. Princess Leia, you probably missed Brain. He was the one who said he is in it for the money. Nothing will ever beat the original lineup. The chemistry and heart of the originals are unbeatable. The only person that I truly believe has the heart for this lineup is Bumblefoot. I just don't get the same sense of urgency from anyone else.

Nonsense. So you're actually saying Dizzy. DJ, Tommy, Frank, Richard nor Pitman have their heart in this? I repeat: No sense 

[cotis]

  some people amaze me.

 

[draguns]

I don't sense the same urgency as I get with Bumblefoot. He's the one going against the wind on this. Maybe the other guys are frustrated, but don't want to say anything publicly. I think Bumblefoot is the guy who is really lighting it up publicly. I think Axl needs someone to light a fire under his a$$. I think someone in this post said that maybe it was not in the best interests  of Axl to assume totally control of GNR. I think that's somewhat becoming apparent. 

[norway]

I think someone in this post said that maybe it was not in the best interests  of Axl to assume totally control of GNR. I think that's somewhat becoming apparent. 

It's his. He used the name first and it gives him economical benefits.

Not saying it's anything wrong with it, but some people want really much from a band of veteran adults.

[LongGoneDay]

I don't sense the same urgency as I get with Bumblefoot. He's the one going against the wind on this. Maybe the other guys are frustrated, but don't want to say anything publicly. I think Bumblefoot is the guy who is really lighting it up publicly. I think Axl needs someone to light a fire under his a$$. I think someone in this post said that maybe it was not in the best interests  of Axl to assume totally control of GNR. I think that's somewhat becoming apparent. 

I think it's far more than "somewhat apparent".
Creatively, his career went in the toilet after implosion of classic lineup.
It was plunged out for a minute to release Chinese Democracy, then flushed right back down.

Of the alumni, he's the only one not producing.

I feel it's more than safe to say that creatively, it was definitely not in Axl's, or Guns N' Roses best interest for him to assume control.

If he had moved on from the GN'R name, short of retirement, it would have been difficult for him to produce less than he has post Spaghetti Incident.

Granted this is with the benefit of hindsight. I always assumed the roles would have been reversed, but now it's pretty clear he needed them more.

[D-GenerationX]

He needed them more to kick him in the ass some.

What the past 15 years have shown us is a world where Axl has no checks or balances.

[jarmo]

Creatively, his career went in the toilet after implosion of classic lineup.
It was plunged out for a minute to release Chinese Democracy, then flushed right back down.

You are confusing creativity with releasing material. Because Axl isn't releasing material for you to dissect, according to your wishes and your schedules, you're claiming he's not creative.
There's more creativity on Chinese Democracy than some bands manage in their whole careers. 




/jarmo

[LongGoneDay]

Creatively, his career went in the toilet after implosion of classic lineup.
It was plunged out for a minute to release Chinese Democracy, then flushed right back down.

You are confusing creativity with releasing material. Because Axl isn't releasing material for you to dissect, according to your wishes and your schedules, you're claiming he's not creative.
There's more creativity on Chinese Democracy than some bands manage in their whole careers. 




/jarmo

No, I'm pretty clear on the difference between creativity and the release of material.
Kind of goes hand in hand though in Axl's line of work.

You can only pull out that excuse so many times before the teacher stops giving you the benefit of the doubt.
"I did my homework, I just forgot it at home."

Maybe the dog ate Axl's homework?

I don't make the schedule, but I think he'd be running a tad late on anyone outside this forums watch.

Again, that's a nice optimistic theory that there's a bunch of music in the vaults ready to go, and I hope it's true.
Until then, in the vault, non existent, what's the difference?

If a bear shits in the woods?

[jarmo]

You can be creative without releasing the output. If a painter doesn't sell or display a single painting, (s)he's not creative?

You can be upset about there not being more material for you to "enjoy", that's fine. And most of us get it. Some of us were there ten years ago when people were doing the same thing....But please be careful what kind of generalizations you make.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

You are confusing creativity with releasing material. Because Axl isn't releasing material for you to dissect, according to your wishes and your schedules, you're claiming he's not creative.
There's more creativity on Chinese Democracy than some bands manage in their whole careers. 

Let me get this straight.

People can't say he hasn't been creative because there is simply not a lot of output over the past 15 years.  That's no good.  Yes?

You come back that he's actually creating his red haired ass off, and despite the same lack of tangible output to back you up on that...we are supposed to accept your take and discredit the opposite?  Does that make sense?

Jarmo, its the same argument.  We don't have output, so we have nothing.  Who the hell knows, pro OR con?  You going down this road that Axl may well be creating on pace not seen since the prime days of the good lord himself (but just hasn't released it) is just you looking for your typical good spin on a grim situation.

I have seem political campaign managers that can't hold a candle to you, my friend.  No man test.

[jarmo]

You can only judge his creative output between 1993 and 2008 by listening to Chinese Democracy and Oh My God, that's true. But those of us who have read articles know that the creative output didn't stop with the tracks included on that album and the one track on the End of Days soundtrack. Hell, the band even performed a song live that they haven't released yet....




/jarmo