2014 Baseball season/Off Season Discussion

[tim_m]

Another sad day not just for Yankee fans but fans of baseball. Even if you hate the Yankees you'd be hard pressed to find a fan who doesn't like and respect Jeter. I'm glad he's announcing it now so that the fans can say goodbye. I could see the Yankees retiring his number and giving him his monument before seasons end like Rivera got his number retired. Rivera didn't get a monument Jeter will without question. Next stop for Jeter the HOF on his first ballot in 2019.

[tim_m]

Jeter has just announced that 2014 will be his final season.

I'm not even sure what to say...

First ballot HOFer, all around stand up guy, and the literal pride of the Yankees.

Sad day for Yankees fans...

I think we all knew this was coming, nice to see him going out on his terms.

A little surprised he's going the farewell tour route, probably more for the fans than any "draw attention to myself" motive though.

Definitely, very similar to Rivera. He did it for the fans as will Jeter.

[Falcon]

After 2 hip surgeries?

Not likely.  He will be lucky if he can manage 3rd and not be a mostly full time DH.

It was tongue in cheek pilf

But..

You know it's already going through ARod's demented mind.

[tim_m]

Now that we know Jeter is retiring at season's end. Where does he rank among the Yankee greats? I think he's right up there with Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and DiMaggio. If he can pull off one more 200 hit season he will finish his great HOF career fifth all time in hits.

[Falcon]

Now that we know Jeter is retiring at season's end. Where does he rank among the Yankee greats? I think he's right up there with Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and DiMaggio. If he can pull off one more 200 hit season he will finish his great HOF career fifth all time in hits.

I think he's in the conversation and rightfully so.

I also think Rivera should be in there too, and possibly slotted ahead of Jeter when it's all said and done.

Rivera was pretty much the consensus best at what he did while Jeter is more near the back end of the top 10 all time SS list.

All subject to change on what kind of year he has this year of course.

[tim_m]

Now that we know Jeter is retiring at season's end. Where does he rank among the Yankee greats? I think he's right up there with Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and DiMaggio. If he can pull off one more 200 hit season he will finish his great HOF career fifth all time in hits.

I think he's in the conversation and rightfully so.

I also think Rivera should be in there too, and possibly slotted ahead of Jeter when it's all said and done.

Rivera was pretty much the consensus best at what he did while Jeter is more near the back end of the top 10 all time SS list.

All subject to change on what kind of year he has this year of course.

Agreed with Rivera. There's Rivera and then there's everyone else as far as closers go. I'm really hoping he can have one last stellar season go out really on top and get to the top 5 in hits all time. And i wouldn't put it past him to have a special final year. He just seems to have a flare for the dramatic. Just look at what happened when he got hit 3,000. Couldn't have scripted that better. The ultimate of course would be for him to go out holding the commissioner's trophy in October. Now i have to get to a Rangers game this season when the Yankees are in town. I do not wanna miss seeing him in person one more time and say goodbye. I didn't get to with Rivera since seeing him in a game was hit and miss last season. I think he only made it into one of the games when he was here. Jeter on the other hand i should be guaranteed to see him play.

[tim_m]

All you really need to think about with how good and consistent Jeter has been is to realize he's the first yankee to get 3,000 hits. I mean just think about that. The first, not Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio or Mantle did it and at a relatively young age of 37. If Jeter didn't have that injury riddled 2013 season we could be talking about him finishing his career with 3rd most hits.

[GeorgeSteele]

Now that we know Jeter is retiring at season's end. Where does he rank among the Yankee greats? I think he's right up there with Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and DiMaggio. If he can pull off one more 200 hit season he will finish his great HOF career fifth all time in hits.

A 200 hit season would surprise me.  I think if he felt he was still a 200-hit per year player, he would not have made this his last year. 

[faldor]

Love the 30 for 30's.  Here's a "short" 30 for 30 about A-Rod almost coming to Boston.  I remember those days well.  I was torn.  I loved Nomar at the time, and as much of a pain Manny was, he produced on the field.  They also would've had to part with Jon Lester, who has turned out to be a pretty good pitcher.  Coming to Boston along with A-Rod would've been Magglio Ordonez and Brandon McCarthy.  I wonder how different things would've worked out initially.  The way things played out, obviously I have no regrets.  But it's interesting to speculate.

http://grantland.com/features/30-for-30-shorts-the-deal/

[faldor]

Now that we know Jeter is retiring at season's end. Where does he rank among the Yankee greats? I think he's right up there with Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and DiMaggio. If he can pull off one more 200 hit season he will finish his great HOF career fifth all time in hits.

A 200 hit season would surprise me.  I think if he felt he was still a 200-hit per year player, he would not have made this his last year. 

Could happen.  But it would seem to be asking a lot for a 39 year old SS, and turns 40 during the season, who barely played last season.  I would hope he could stay relatively healthy through the season.  That's a good starting point.

[GeorgeSteele]

Now that we know Jeter is retiring at season's end. Where does he rank among the Yankee greats? I think he's right up there with Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and DiMaggio. If he can pull off one more 200 hit season he will finish his great HOF career fifth all time in hits.

I think he's in the conversation and rightfully so.

I also think Rivera should be in there too, and possibly slotted ahead of Jeter when it's all said and done.

Rivera was pretty much the consensus best at what he did while Jeter is more near the back end of the top 10 all time SS list.

All subject to change on what kind of year he has this year of course.

I think Jeter is at least a top 5 SS.  You've got Honus Wagner, Ernie Banks, Ripken... who else?  At this point, A-Rod has played mostly 3rd base.  Even Ripken and Banks played a bulk of their careers at 3rd.  

[faldor]

Saw this yesterday.  Love stuff like this.  They took the best players at each position for a single season for every MLB team and simulated a full season.  The results were a bit surprising.  Some amazing stats though.  Offense rules the day.

Click on the list of teams to see which players made the cut.  Here are some interesting notes, players who appeared on multiple teams, etc.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24439395/all-time-single-season-series-by-the-numbers

AL regular season results
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24440028/all-time-single-season-teams-the-american-league-simulation

AL regular season stats
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/lg1_lgbatldrs.htm

NL regular season results
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24440059/all-time-single-season-teams-the-national-league-simulation

NL regular season stats
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/lg2_lgbatldrs.htm

Playoff results
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24440046/all-time-single-season-teams-the-simulated-playoffs

[faldor]

A look at some of the teams that get talked about most around here.  Starting with the Red Sox, of course. 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24426475/all-time-single-season-team-boston-red-sox

STARTING PITCHERS - 1901 Cy Young, 2000 Pedro Martinez, 1990 Roger Clemens, 1914 Dutch Leonard, 1936 Lefty Grove

RELIEF PITCHERS - 2006 Jonathan Papelbon, 2013 Koji Uehara, 1953 Ellis Kinder

LINEUP

1. Tris Speaker, 1912
2. Wade Boggs, 1987
3. Ted Williams, 1941
4. Carl Yastrzemski, 1970
5. Rico Petrocelli, 1969
6. David Ortiz, 2006
7. Dwight Evans, 1981
8. Carlton Fisk, 1977
9. Dustin Pedroia, 2011

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24427709/all-time-single-season-team-new-york-yankees

STARTING PITCHERS -- 1904 Jack Chesbro, 1937 Lefty Gomez, 1975 Catfish Hunter, 1978 Ron Guidry, 1997 Andy Pettitte

RELIEF PITCHERS -- 1982 Goose Gossage, 1996 Mariano Rivera, 2011 David Robertson

THE LINEUP

    1999 Derek Jeter
    2007 Alex Rodriguez
    1921 Babe Ruth
    1927 Lou Gehrig
    1956 Mickey Mantle
    1961 Roger Maris
    1956 Yogi Berra
    2006 Jason Giambi
    2012 Robinson Cano

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24407993/alltime-singleseason-team-st-louis-cardinals

STARTING PITCHERS - 1968 Bob Gibson, 1985 John Tudor, 1934 Dizzy Dean, 1948 Harry Breechen, 1942 Mort Cooper

RELIEF PITCHERS - 1984 Bruce Sutter; 1975 Al Hrabosky; 2001 Steve Kline

THE LINEUP

1. 1924 Hornsby, 2B
2. 2009 Pujols, 1B
3. 1948 Musial, RF
4. 1937 Medwick, LF
5. 2004 Edmonds, CF
6. 1971 Torre, 3B
7. 2012 Molina, C
8. 1987 Smith, SS

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24434323/all-time-single-season-team-new-york-mets

STARTING PITCHERS - 1971 Tom Seaver, 1985 Dwight Gooden, 1969 Jerry Koosman, 1998 Al Leiter, 2008 Johan Santana

RELIEF PITCHERS - 1999 Armando Benitez, 1983 Jesse Orosco, 2006 Billy Wagner

THE LINEUP

1. 2011 Jose Reyes, SS
2. 2007 David Wright, 3B
3. 2006 Carlos Beltran, CF
4. 1987 Darryl Strawberry, RF
5. 1985 Gary Carter, C
6. 1998 John Olerud, 1B
7. 1969 Cleon Jones, LF
8. 2000 Edgardo Alfonzo, 2B

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24438508/all-time-single-season-team-philadelphia-phillies

STARTING PITCHERS - 1915 Grover Cleveland Alexander, 1972 Steve Carlton, 2010 Roy Halladay, 1953 Robin Roberts, 2011 Cliff Lee

RELIEF PITCHERS - 1950 Jim Konstanty, 1980 Tug McGraw, 2008 Brad Lidge

THE LINEUP

1. Richie Ashburn, 1958
2. Sherry Magee, 1910
3. Chuck Klein, 1932
4. Mike Schmidt, 1981
5. Ryan Howard, 2006
6. Darren Daulton, 1992
7. Chase Utley, 2008
8. Jimmy Rollins, 2007

And I don't think we have any Indians fans on the board, but they tore it up so they deserve a look.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24414720/all-time-single-season-team-cleveland-indians

STARTING PITCHERS -- 1908 Addie Joss, 1918 Stan Coveleski, 1946 Bob Feller, 1968 Luis Tiant, 1972 Gaylord Perry

RELIEF PITCHERS -- 1979 Sid Monge, 1982 Dan Spiller, 1995 Jose Mesa

THE LINEUP

    1912 Shoeless Joe Jackson
    1916 Tris Speaker
    1995 Albert Belle
    2002 Jim Thome
    1953 Al Rosen
    2006 Travis Hafner
    1904 Nap Lajoie
    1948 Lou Boudreau
    1961 John Romano

[GeorgeSteele]

Saw this yesterday.  Love stuff like this.  They took the best players at each position for a single season for every MLB team and simulated a full season.  The results were a bit surprising.  Some amazing stats though.  Offense rules the day.

Click on the list of teams to see which players made the cut.  Here are some interesting notes, players who appeared on multiple teams, etc.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24439395/all-time-single-season-series-by-the-numbers

AL regular season results
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24440028/all-time-single-season-teams-the-american-league-simulation

AL regular season stats
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/lg1_lgbatldrs.htm

NL regular season results
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24440059/all-time-single-season-teams-the-national-league-simulation

NL regular season stats
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/lg2_lgbatldrs.htm

Playoff results
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24440046/all-time-single-season-teams-the-simulated-playoffs

That's pretty cool.  My nitpick is that Mets' best LF season was 1996 Bernard Gilkey, not 1969 Cleon Jones.  Also, Armando Fucking Benitez in the bullpen over Tug McGraw?  No way. 

[faldor]

Saw this yesterday.  Love stuff like this.  They took the best players at each position for a single season for every MLB team and simulated a full season.  The results were a bit surprising.  Some amazing stats though.  Offense rules the day.

Click on the list of teams to see which players made the cut.  Here are some interesting notes, players who appeared on multiple teams, etc.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24439395/all-time-single-season-series-by-the-numbers

AL regular season results
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24440028/all-time-single-season-teams-the-american-league-simulation

AL regular season stats
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/lg1_lgbatldrs.htm

NL regular season results
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24440059/all-time-single-season-teams-the-national-league-simulation

NL regular season stats
http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/lg2_lgbatldrs.htm

Playoff results
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24440046/all-time-single-season-teams-the-simulated-playoffs

That's pretty cool.  My nitpick is that Mets' best LF season was 1996 Bernard Gilkey, not 1969 Cleon Jones.  Also, Armando Fucking Benitez in the bullpen over Tug McGraw?  No way. 

Gilkey was the runner up it seems.

LEFT FIELD - Cleon Jones, 1969

The Amazin' Mets won 100 games and the World Series in 1969, and Jones was the best all-around position player. He hit .340/.422/.482 (151 OPS+) with 25 doubles, 12 homers, 75 RBI, 92 runs and 16 stolen bases while flashing good leather in left. He also had a huge NLCS (.429 with two doubles, a homer and four RBI) in a three-game sweep of the Braves.

On career acumen, Kevin McReynolds would have probably gotten the call here while Bernard Gilkey's unlikely 1996 explosion was the runner up here in a single-season judgment. Cliff Floyd and George Foster each had a nice power season and Joel Youngblood's 1979 season was also worth mention either here or in right field.

As for Armando

RELIEF PITCHERS - 1999 Armando Benitez, 1983 Jesse Orosco, 2006 Billy Wagner

Benitez holds the single-season franchise record in saves (43), but his best effort -- rather easily -- came in '99 when he wasn't even the closer until around mid-June. He posted 17 holds and 22 saves against six blown saves with a 1.85 ERA, 1.04 WHIP and a whopping 128 strikeouts in 78 innings. Opposing hitters managed just a .148/.260/.236 line against him.

Orosco is our ironman reliever, one like we've seen pop up on several teams. He worked 110 innings that season while winning 13 games and saving 17. He had a 1.47 ERA (229 ERA+) with a 1.04 WHIP. Perhaps the best illustration of his value is that he finished third in NL Cy Young voting that season despite not being predominantly used as a closer.

In terms of the ironman role, Orosco barely nudged out a few seasons from Tug McGraw.

In Wagner's first season with the Mets, he was outstanding, saving 40 games in 45 chances with a 2.24 ERA (196 ERA+), 1.11 WHIP and 94 strikeouts in 72 1/3 innings.

Others who a worth a mention: Randy Myers, Rick Aguilera, Skip Lockwood, Francisco Rodriguez and Braden Looper.

[NOTE: John Franco was the first guy who missed out. Had I gone to four, he would've been on it. And then I forgot to list his name as others considered initially. My bad.]

[Falcon]

Now that we know Jeter is retiring at season's end. Where does he rank among the Yankee greats? I think he's right up there with Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and DiMaggio. If he can pull off one more 200 hit season he will finish his great HOF career fifth all time in hits.

I think he's in the conversation and rightfully so.

I also think Rivera should be in there too, and possibly slotted ahead of Jeter when it's all said and done.

Rivera was pretty much the consensus best at what he did while Jeter is more near the back end of the top 10 all time SS list.

All subject to change on what kind of year he has this year of course.

I think Jeter is at least a top 5 SS.  You've got Honus Wagner, Ernie Banks, Ripken... who else?  At this point, A-Rod has played mostly 3rd base.  Even Ripken and Banks played a bulk of their careers at 3rd.  

Arky Vaughn, Ozzie Smith, Barry Larkin, Alan Trammel, Luke Appling are all in the mix.

The rub on Jeter is defense - he's nowhere in the neighborhood of Smith, Larkin or Trammel and it's not even close. 

If you're going on offense alone, I think Jeter is Top 5 easy. 

[pilferk]

My only gripe:

They decide to "go back" before Cleveland was the Indians (For Nap, as a Nap).

But they don't go back to Boston's Americans days, or the Yankees Highlanders days.

[pilferk]

Arky Vaughn, Ozzie Smith, Barry Larkin, Alan Trammel, Luke Appling are all in the mix.

The rub on Jeter is defense - he's nowhere in the neighborhood of Smith, Larkin or Trammel and it's not even close. 

If you're going on offense alone, I think Jeter is Top 5 easy. 

I know Advanced Defensive metrics say Jeter has always been a mediocre (and, in most cases, terrible) defensive shortstop.  I don't buy it.

I've watched the guy for 20 years...seen most of the games he's played....and I don't see it.  They say his range has always been terrible....but they fail to metric in his lack of errors. It's one of the things I hate about UZR and even, to some extent, defesnive WAR. 

I know you're all going to cry "cop out" or "bias", but his "terrible" defensive reputation for his career, to me, doesn't pass the eye test.  In his younger days, he routinely made spectacular defensive plays and throws. He has been as sure handed as any shortstop in history.  And his ability to start double plays is almost unprecedented.  Jeter TODAY?  Sure, but then....name me a 37+ year old shortstop who's defense HASN'T been "terrible".

I also submit that his "limited" range to his left is, at least in part, indicative of having the benefit of playing with STRONG defensive (Soriano excluded) 2nd baseman through most of his career.  Again, something UZR fails to consider.

To me, Jeter is number 4 on the list.  That being said, Wagner is number 1 by such a wide margin...nobody else is remotely close.

FYI: Banks doesn't make my list because he played more than half his career at 1B. 

1) Wagner 2)Ripken 3)Appling 4)Jeter

[GeorgeSteele]

Now that we know Jeter is retiring at season's end. Where does he rank among the Yankee greats? I think he's right up there with Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and DiMaggio. If he can pull off one more 200 hit season he will finish his great HOF career fifth all time in hits.

I think he's in the conversation and rightfully so.

I also think Rivera should be in there too, and possibly slotted ahead of Jeter when it's all said and done.

Rivera was pretty much the consensus best at what he did while Jeter is more near the back end of the top 10 all time SS list.

All subject to change on what kind of year he has this year of course.

I think Jeter is at least a top 5 SS.  You've got Honus Wagner, Ernie Banks, Ripken... who else?  At this point, A-Rod has played mostly 3rd base.  Even Ripken and Banks played a bulk of their careers at 3rd.  

Arky Vaughn, Ozzie Smith, Barry Larkin, Alan Trammel, Luke Appling are all in the mix.

The rub on Jeter is defense - he's nowhere in the neighborhood of Smith, Larkin or Trammel and it's not even close. 

If you're going on offense alone, I think Jeter is Top 5 easy. 

Not quite offense alone, but I would put a premium on bat over glove. I think over the course of a season, a good bat wins more games than a good glove, though granted SS is an especially important defensive position.  And while Jeter did not have the glove of the guys you mentioned, he was an above-average fielder for most of his career (despite his detractors often saying otherwise).  

[tim_m]

Now that we know Jeter is retiring at season's end. Where does he rank among the Yankee greats? I think he's right up there with Ruth, Mantle, Gehrig and DiMaggio. If he can pull off one more 200 hit season he will finish his great HOF career fifth all time in hits.

A 200 hit season would surprise me.  I think if he felt he was still a 200-hit per year player, he would not have made this his last year. 

I agree. It would surprise me too, but watching him for 20 years i've learned to put nothing past him.