Guns N' Roses South American Tour 2014 - announcement on Monday Dec 23rd

[Ginger King]

This is ridiculous people, no point in arguing amongst ourselves. Fact is, is that this is typical GN'R, and we should come to accept that this is the way the band operates. Info gets leaked out, announcements are made, cinema releases are planned, DVD's are filmed, tours are booked..... only for things to be delayed or even cancelled.

This is no different, in fact it's exactly GN'R behaviour, like it or not.  

I agree with you that GnR is its own special brand of crazy...what's frustrating is that many people here try to pass that crazy off as normal, as in this type of stuff (e.g. no new music, same tours, inability to release a DVD/make an annoucement) happens to every band.  I just don't get that.

[LunsJail]

Blah blah blah. What the hell happened to the announcement?

[Princess Leia]

NO!!!!!! They got the info and THEY ASKED MANAGENT if that info was true. Management said yes. So they made the announcement.

My comment about Guinea Pigs was because if the South American tour or the Vegas thing ends up in nothing for some reason. Then Management can cover their asses. They never made an official announcement in their official website. There never was an official press release. They could said it?s all Jarmo?s and Mygnrforum posting some "rumor". When in fact they confirmed in private.
They want to avoid the situation Doug Goldstein faced back in 2001 when an Euro tour was cancelled. And Axl didn?t even know he had a tour.
My guess is Axl found about this stupid way of communication. And he stopped it because it?s not the way he wants things to be done. So we will have the info when Axl believes it?s the right time to make it public. For me it is very hard to believe that Axl is behind and supports this silly game of giving away info in private to some fans who are administrators of unofficial forums.

That is just not true.  What you're saying isn't supported by the facts.  (not picking on you or anyone else. just using your post to show where I disagree ..... that and your "guinea pig" reference freaked me out)

There was never a source listed for where that info posted on mygnr originally came from or who in "management" confirmed it thus giving their blessing to post. ("confirmed in private"?? seriously??)

Again, I'm not questioning if the info posted is correct or not.  I'm questioning who the source is and why they can't tell us who confirmed it.  (I'm not a member of mygnr or nightrain forum or paradisecity.com so I'm going by what I read from people like you who repost the info onto htgth.)

The situation with the South America poster is case-in-point.  We know for a FACT where it came from so they can't deny it or say it was admin@htgth "posting some rumor" as you suggested. 
gunsnroses.com even went as far to post immediately after their self-imposed announcement details date past to post on the OFFICIAL site:  As for everything else? ?yes, Jarmo is right.  Information coming soon!
No plausible deniability or soup for you, Axl!!!  NEXT!!! 

Anyways ...
I'm just stating my opinion that I believe the info posted three weeks ago might have been the catalyst for the current situation, i.e., we know info is coming soon but right now the GNR Camp/Axl/Management/whomever aren't ready, willing and/or able to give us those details (besides Mexico).
   

Hold it right there! I won?t tolerate to be called and liar. The administrators from Mygnrforum said that someone gave them the information. So they asked management about it. And managemet confirmed.Once it was confirmed they posted it. THEY TOLD FANS IT WAS CONFIRMED BY MANAGEMENT. What they got was the following: In a March show in Mexico, South American Tour and Vegas. THEY WERE NOT GIVEN MORE DETAILS. As we know the show in Mexico was made official now. If you don?t check Mygnrforum then you don?t know jack shit about the information they are posting and their communication with management.

Jarmo posted he was going to announce the details about the South American Tour. Who do you think told Jarmo that there was an announcement coming? Well management. But maybe you think it was an allien from Mars. Fine, believe whatever you want.

Jarmo clearly was told in private. Well the guys from Mygnrforum were told in private as well. Do I like this kind of policy from management? Hell no!!! Management must make the official information available in the GN?R official website

[Baz Rose]

Now, after I finished reading this entire thread, I need to get some rest... So much bullshit, so much nonesense...

I assume there's a lot of smart people here, but their time-wasting, judgmental, disrespectful attitude makes u all (u know who u are) really stupid!

Stop killing the messenger, stop speculating shit, stop demanding what ur not entitled to.

Sit down, relax, wait 4 the announcement (whenever it comes out) and plan everything for attending the show (if ur real interest IS attending to the shows).

Jarmo, we're waiting 4 the whole camp to come back to South America (specially Santiago, Chile) with open arms. Hope we have the time and the chance to share some beers!

- Baz.

[GypsySoul]

Hold it right there! I won?t tolerate to be called and liar.

Wasn't calling you a liar.  Just pointing out that your logic is flawed.

THEY WERE NOT GIVEN MORE DETAILS.

Not according to them.  What they said was that they aren't at liberty to divulge any further.
And again, I'm not questioning their info.

Jarmo clearly was told in private. Well the guys from Mygnrforum were told in private as well.

No.  Jarmo was given a flyer to post after false info was going around the forums about supposed SA dates & venues, etc.  To date, no official SA dates/venues have been confirmed by GNR or anyone else.

Do I like this kind of policy from management? Hell no!!! Management must make the official information available in the GN?R official website

MY WHOLE POINT WAS/IS, IMO this announcing announcements situation is NOT the policy of the GNR management but is the result of trying to stop all the FALSE dates/venues that have been rumored since the plan of a SA tour was leaked three weeks ago.  Management wasn't given the opportunity to announce the tour through official channels.

Shit happens.  Seems they're trying to get all their ducks in a row.  Like they said:  Information is coming soon!

[Princess Leia]

Hold it right there! I won?t tolerate to be called and liar.

Wasn't calling you a liar.  Just pointing out that your logic is flawed.

THEY WERE NOT GIVEN MORE DETAILS.

Not according to them.  What they said was that they aren't at liberty to divulge any further.
And again, I'm not questioning their info.

Jarmo clearly was told in private. Well the guys from Mygnrforum were told in private as well.

No.  Jarmo was given a flyer to post after false info was going around the forums about supposed SA dates & venues, etc.  To date, no official SA dates/venues have been confirmed by GNR or anyone else.

Do I like this kind of policy from management? Hell no!!! Management must make the official information available in the GN?R official website

MY WHOLE POINT WAS/IS, IMO this announcing announcements situation is NOT the policy of the GNR management but is the result of trying to stop all the FALSE dates/venues that have been rumored since the plan of a SA tour was leaked three weeks ago.  Management wasn't given the opportunity to announce the tour through official channels.

Shit happens.  Seems they're trying to get all their ducks in a row.  Like they said:  Information is coming soon!

The guys from Mygnrforum DON?T HAVE THE DATES OF THE SOUTH AMERICAN TOUR. They were waiting for Jarmo to make that announcement on Dec 23rd just like the rest of us.

The rumor dates were started by promoters and journalists in South America NOT by Mygnrforum. Fans at Mygnrforum just posted that those rumors were around.

Jarmo got the flyer. How do you think he got it? Management sent it to him. According to Jarmo management was going to give him the dates on Dec 23rd. If that wasn?t the case then Jarmo should have never said he was going to make an announcement. There is no need to announce you got simple flyer. Don?t you think?  Yesterday I saw in GN?R official facebook that we still don?t have the dates confirmed. And that the rumors were just bullshit. But yesterday was not Dec 23rd. What was the announcement that Jarmo was going to make? A happy Holydays?

I only see 2 possibilities. Either Jarmo misunderstood or at the last minute managemnet was told to shut the fuck up. And stop giving information away to unnofficial forums.

I?m afraid announcing announcement is or was the policy. Just last month or so ago Fernando himself issue a short statement saying that they were trying to find the best way to give us what we need the most. And that was information. That?s an announcement about making a future announcement right there.

[Mysteron]

Hold it right there! I won?t tolerate to be called and liar.

Wasn't calling you a liar.  Just pointing out that your logic is flawed.

THEY WERE NOT GIVEN MORE DETAILS.

Not according to them.  What they said was that they aren't at liberty to divulge any further.
And again, I'm not questioning their info.

Jarmo clearly was told in private. Well the guys from Mygnrforum were told in private as well.

No.  Jarmo was given a flyer to post after false info was going around the forums about supposed SA dates & venues, etc.  To date, no official SA dates/venues have been confirmed by GNR or anyone else.

Do I like this kind of policy from management? Hell no!!! Management must make the official information available in the GN?R official website

MY WHOLE POINT WAS/IS, IMO this announcing announcements situation is NOT the policy of the GNR management but is the result of trying to stop all the FALSE dates/venues that have been rumored since the plan of a SA tour was leaked three weeks ago.  Management wasn't given the opportunity to announce the tour through official channels.

Shit happens.  Seems they're trying to get all their ducks in a row.  Like they said:  Information is coming soon!

The guys from Mygnrforum DON?T HAVE THE DATES OF THE SOUTH AMERICAN TOUR. They were waiting for Jarmo to make that announcement on Dec 23rd just like the rest of us.

The rumor dates were started by promoters and journalists in South America NOT by Mygnrforum. Fans at Mygnrforum just posted that those rumors were around.

Jarmo got the flyer. How do you think he got it? Management sent it to him. According to Jarmo management was going to give him the dates on Dec 23rd. If that wasn?t the case then Jarmo should have never said he was going to make an announcement. There is no need to announce you got simple flyer. Don?t you think?  Yesterday I saw in GN?R official facebook that we still don?t have the dates confirmed. And that the rumors were just bullshit. But yesterday was not Dec 23rd. What was the announcement that Jarmo was going to make? A happy Holydays?

I only see 2 possibilities. Either Jarmo misunderstood or at the last minute managemnet was told to shut the fuck up. And stop giving information away to unnofficial forums.

I?m afraid announcing announcement is or was the policy. Just last month or so ago Fernando himself issue a short statement saying that they were trying to find the best way to give us what we need the most. And that was information. That?s an announcement about making a future announcement right there.

Why are you so bothered by it all. Have you made plans to go already?

[el_loko]

Just last month or so ago Fernando himself issue a short statement saying that they were trying to find the best way to give us what we need the most. And that was information. That?s an announcement about making a future announcement right there.

So they did... they posted information on 23th that someday maybe they give us some information. Hilarious.

[Princess Leia]

Hold it right there! I won?t tolerate to be called and liar.

Wasn't calling you a liar.  Just pointing out that your logic is flawed.

THEY WERE NOT GIVEN MORE DETAILS.

Not according to them.  What they said was that they aren't at liberty to divulge any further.
And again, I'm not questioning their info.

Jarmo clearly was told in private. Well the guys from Mygnrforum were told in private as well.

No.  Jarmo was given a flyer to post after false info was going around the forums about supposed SA dates & venues, etc.  To date, no official SA dates/venues have been confirmed by GNR or anyone else.

Do I like this kind of policy from management? Hell no!!! Management must make the official information available in the GN?R official website

MY WHOLE POINT WAS/IS, IMO this announcing announcements situation is NOT the policy of the GNR management but is the result of trying to stop all the FALSE dates/venues that have been rumored since the plan of a SA tour was leaked three weeks ago.  Management wasn't given the opportunity to announce the tour through official channels.

Shit happens.  Seems they're trying to get all their ducks in a row.  Like they said:  Information is coming soon!

The guys from Mygnrforum DON?T HAVE THE DATES OF THE SOUTH AMERICAN TOUR. They were waiting for Jarmo to make that announcement on Dec 23rd just like the rest of us.

The rumor dates were started by promoters and journalists in South America NOT by Mygnrforum. Fans at Mygnrforum just posted that those rumors were around.

Jarmo got the flyer. How do you think he got it? Management sent it to him. According to Jarmo management was going to give him the dates on Dec 23rd. If that wasn?t the case then Jarmo should have never said he was going to make an announcement. There is no need to announce you got simple flyer. Don?t you think?  Yesterday I saw in GN?R official facebook that we still don?t have the dates confirmed. And that the rumors were just bullshit. But yesterday was not Dec 23rd. What was the announcement that Jarmo was going to make? A happy Holydays?

I only see 2 possibilities. Either Jarmo misunderstood or at the last minute managemnet was told to shut the fuck up. And stop giving information away to unnofficial forums.

I?m afraid announcing announcement is or was the policy. Just last month or so ago Fernando himself issue a short statement saying that they were trying to find the best way to give us what we need the most. And that was information. That?s an announcement about making a future announcement right there.

Why are you so bothered by it all. Have you made plans to go already?

What bothers me is how management handles information/communication. We?re talking about GN?R not some garage band. They gotta be carefull with official information.But they decided to pass around or confirm information in unofficial forums first. GN?R has an official website. it?s not about my personal plans to attend shows. It?s about how things should be run.

I don?t wanna know the official news (of any kind) because management tells Jarmo or Mygnrforum.There is something called press release

And it also bothers me when people here claim that Mygnrforum administrators made things up. If they posted about the Mexico Festival, South American tour and Vegas it was because they asked management and they confirmed.

[norway]

I don?t wanna know the official news (of any kind) because management tells Jarmo or Mygnrforum.There is something called press release

This is a part of 'the press' today tho. Many generic folks check here (or there) for gnr-news.

[pilferk]

I only see 2 possibilities. Either Jarmo misunderstood or at the last minute managemnet was told to shut the fuck up. And stop giving information away to unnofficial forums.

Then you're missing the third:

Management and the band THOUGHT they would have the dates confirmed by the 23rd, so that's the date they gave jarmo.

Then, something went wrong and they hit a snafu.  Who knows...maybe one of the promoters down in South America left on holiday before signing the contracts they were supposed to sign. Or they're still working to finalize contract details they thought were done.  Or a hundred other little tiny minute details (including some really annoying red tape that goes on with many of the governments, at both local and country levels) that go into this process hit some sort of snag.

And GnR isn't willing to release information that's only MOSTLY true, or PROBABLY true...because, if they do, and something falls through, they'd take a ton of shit for it.

So, to summarize, Option 3 is:

Something unforseen delayed the announcement.

Which, incidentally, is what the flyer basically said.  And we've heard no more because...that's still the situation.

Maybe they should just change the date on the flyer and "reissue" it every day?

They were essentially forced into saying SOMETHING because of the SA tour rumors, and rumored date/sites, floating around.  Think of the "announcement of an announcement" more as a response to repeated requests for information and confirmation of a rumor.

[Mysteron]

Hold it right there! I won?t tolerate to be called and liar.

Wasn't calling you a liar.  Just pointing out that your logic is flawed.

THEY WERE NOT GIVEN MORE DETAILS.

Not according to them.  What they said was that they aren't at liberty to divulge any further.
And again, I'm not questioning their info.

Jarmo clearly was told in private. Well the guys from Mygnrforum were told in private as well.

No.  Jarmo was given a flyer to post after false info was going around the forums about supposed SA dates & venues, etc.  To date, no official SA dates/venues have been confirmed by GNR or anyone else.

Do I like this kind of policy from management? Hell no!!! Management must make the official information available in the GN?R official website

MY WHOLE POINT WAS/IS, IMO this announcing announcements situation is NOT the policy of the GNR management but is the result of trying to stop all the FALSE dates/venues that have been rumored since the plan of a SA tour was leaked three weeks ago.  Management wasn't given the opportunity to announce the tour through official channels.

Shit happens.  Seems they're trying to get all their ducks in a row.  Like they said:  Information is coming soon!

The guys from Mygnrforum DON?T HAVE THE DATES OF THE SOUTH AMERICAN TOUR. They were waiting for Jarmo to make that announcement on Dec 23rd just like the rest of us.

The rumor dates were started by promoters and journalists in South America NOT by Mygnrforum. Fans at Mygnrforum just posted that those rumors were around.

Jarmo got the flyer. How do you think he got it? Management sent it to him. According to Jarmo management was going to give him the dates on Dec 23rd. If that wasn?t the case then Jarmo should have never said he was going to make an announcement. There is no need to announce you got simple flyer. Don?t you think?  Yesterday I saw in GN?R official facebook that we still don?t have the dates confirmed. And that the rumors were just bullshit. But yesterday was not Dec 23rd. What was the announcement that Jarmo was going to make? A happy Holydays?

I only see 2 possibilities. Either Jarmo misunderstood or at the last minute managemnet was told to shut the fuck up. And stop giving information away to unnofficial forums.

I?m afraid announcing announcement is or was the policy. Just last month or so ago Fernando himself issue a short statement saying that they were trying to find the best way to give us what we need the most. And that was information. That?s an announcement about making a future announcement right there.

Why are you so bothered by it all. Have you made plans to go already?

What bothers me is how management handles information/communication. We?re talking about GN?R not some garage band. They gotta be carefull with official information.But they decided to pass around or confirm information in unofficial forums first. GN?R has an official website. it?s not about my personal plans to attend shows. It?s about how things should be run.

I don?t wanna know the official news (of any kind) because management tells Jarmo or Mygnrforum.There is something called press release

And it also bothers me when people here claim that Mygnrforum administrators made things up. If they posted about the Mexico Festival, South American tour and Vegas it was because they asked management and they confirmed.

I think the band were just trying to help people on the forums that were reading provisional/rumoured tour dates by putting the official dates out there quickly, obviously it hasn't happened, so they have done the next best thing and said that the official tour dates will be released shortly.

All I can see is good intention from the band, and you are spitting fire over it, yet you are not even attending. How bizarre

[pilferk]

I don?t wanna know the official news (of any kind) because management tells Jarmo or Mygnrforum.There is something called press release

And you'll probably get that, once the tour dates are officially announced.  Along with something more specific targeted to "us".

Here's the thing, though:

Fans bitch because the band doesn't communicate well with it's fan base.  That we are left in the dark over and over again.  For the record: I am squarely in the corner of those that believe that, in the past, their communication efforts have left something to be desired.  In other words: I was one of those bitching, too.

And then...the band tries to give the fans a heads up about something that's coming, something that had been rumored (and then was confirmed), and then had more specific rumors circulating (show dates and sites).  They actually targeted, specifically, the fan base to try to get some sort of update to us...

And the fans bitch some more about the form and function of that communication.

We can't have it both ways:

Either

1)The fan base wants ONLY official information via press release and NOTHING ELSE..which means no information until stuff is actually scheduled and happening.  

OR

2) We want them to reach out to us with updates and information as they go through the process.

Scenario 1 means we're going to be left waiting a LOT, and we're only going to hear, say, when a tour is set or an album is getting a release date.  In that case, you'll never get partial or incorrect information, but you're going to get a lot less of it, too.  And you'll never get confirmation/denial of "rumors, either.  "We don't comment on rumors and innuendo" is, perhaps, one of the most used PR lines in history....

Scenario 2 means, sometimes things are going to change, morph, or be incorrect as they work through the process.  But, in that case, we get more information and at least some clues as to where the band is headed, what it's plans are, and where it's collective "head" is at.  So long as they are likewise forthcoming when things change (as they did, and as they were, here), that is.

It seems to me like most of the fanbase has been clamoring for Scenario 2.  

But now wants GnR to be held to the "correctness" standard of Scenario 1.

I don't think there's a "happy medium" between the 2 above scenarios, because, largely, there are timing and logistical hurdles you simply can't overcome.

[pilferk]

Someone refresh my memory:

During a somewhat recent (at least since 2002..so I'm not sure if "within the last 11 years is really recent) touring "segment", wasn't there a bogus show (or shows??) that was being promoted?  There were actual tickets sold, I remember.  Flyers/posters were dissemniated, I think.  It was  a show GnR had never booked, promoted as part of their tour, etc.  The "promoter" basically took advantage of the rumor that GnR were going to be playing "around" that area and then sold tickets to the show.

And I'm not referring to the bogus U.S. Show at that little dive roadhouse, either (in Georgia, maybe??).  It was either somewhere is Europe, Asia, or South America....maybe somewhere near Croatia?

[norway]

TLDR;
We're getting some gnr-action early in 2014 ccl @ details, really

[Princess Leia]

Hold it right there! I won?t tolerate to be called and liar.

Wasn't calling you a liar.  Just pointing out that your logic is flawed.

THEY WERE NOT GIVEN MORE DETAILS.

Not according to them.  What they said was that they aren't at liberty to divulge any further.
And again, I'm not questioning their info.

Jarmo clearly was told in private. Well the guys from Mygnrforum were told in private as well.

No.  Jarmo was given a flyer to post after false info was going around the forums about supposed SA dates & venues, etc.  To date, no official SA dates/venues have been confirmed by GNR or anyone else.

Do I like this kind of policy from management? Hell no!!! Management must make the official information available in the GN?R official website

MY WHOLE POINT WAS/IS, IMO this announcing announcements situation is NOT the policy of the GNR management but is the result of trying to stop all the FALSE dates/venues that have been rumored since the plan of a SA tour was leaked three weeks ago.  Management wasn't given the opportunity to announce the tour through official channels.

Shit happens.  Seems they're trying to get all their ducks in a row.  Like they said:  Information is coming soon!

The guys from Mygnrforum DON?T HAVE THE DATES OF THE SOUTH AMERICAN TOUR. They were waiting for Jarmo to make that announcement on Dec 23rd just like the rest of us.

The rumor dates were started by promoters and journalists in South America NOT by Mygnrforum. Fans at Mygnrforum just posted that those rumors were around.

Jarmo got the flyer. How do you think he got it? Management sent it to him. According to Jarmo management was going to give him the dates on Dec 23rd. If that wasn?t the case then Jarmo should have never said he was going to make an announcement. There is no need to announce you got simple flyer. Don?t you think?  Yesterday I saw in GN?R official facebook that we still don?t have the dates confirmed. And that the rumors were just bullshit. But yesterday was not Dec 23rd. What was the announcement that Jarmo was going to make? A happy Holydays?

I only see 2 possibilities. Either Jarmo misunderstood or at the last minute managemnet was told to shut the fuck up. And stop giving information away to unnofficial forums.

I?m afraid announcing announcement is or was the policy. Just last month or so ago Fernando himself issue a short statement saying that they were trying to find the best way to give us what we need the most. And that was information. That?s an announcement about making a future announcement right there.

Why are you so bothered by it all. Have you made plans to go already?

What bothers me is how management handles information/communication. We?re talking about GN?R not some garage band. They gotta be carefull with official information.But they decided to pass around or confirm information in unofficial forums first. GN?R has an official website. it?s not about my personal plans to attend shows. It?s about how things should be run.

I don?t wanna know the official news (of any kind) because management tells Jarmo or Mygnrforum.There is something called press release

And it also bothers me when people here claim that Mygnrforum administrators made things up. If they posted about the Mexico Festival, South American tour and Vegas it was because they asked management and they confirmed.

I think the band were just trying to help people on the forums that were reading provisional/rumoured tour dates by putting the official dates out there quickly, obviously it hasn't happened, so they have done the next best thing and said that the official tour dates will be released shortly.

All I can see is good intention from the band, and you are spitting fire over it, yet you are not even attending. How bizarre

You are obsessed with plans. Ok, in 2002 I planned. I bought tickets. The tour got cancelled because of a riot in Philly. No explanation whatsoever, no rescheduel, nothing. I had to stick my tickets inside my ass. I hope dude that such thing never happen to you. I don?t wish any fan that one. So much for planning, uh?

And just because I?m not going (I don?t live in SA) I can?t travel around the world at this time that doesn?t mean I?m not interested in what they are doing.

I don?t get this thing oh if you?re not going shut the fuck up. I don?t care about who is going and who is not. If people wanna say something who are you to demand they must attend the show in order to speak?  Since when going to a show is a mandatory request to speak in a forum?

[Mysteron]

Hold it right there! I won?t tolerate to be called and liar.

Wasn't calling you a liar.  Just pointing out that your logic is flawed.

THEY WERE NOT GIVEN MORE DETAILS.

Not according to them.  What they said was that they aren't at liberty to divulge any further.
And again, I'm not questioning their info.

Jarmo clearly was told in private. Well the guys from Mygnrforum were told in private as well.

No.  Jarmo was given a flyer to post after false info was going around the forums about supposed SA dates & venues, etc.  To date, no official SA dates/venues have been confirmed by GNR or anyone else.

Do I like this kind of policy from management? Hell no!!! Management must make the official information available in the GN?R official website

MY WHOLE POINT WAS/IS, IMO this announcing announcements situation is NOT the policy of the GNR management but is the result of trying to stop all the FALSE dates/venues that have been rumored since the plan of a SA tour was leaked three weeks ago.  Management wasn't given the opportunity to announce the tour through official channels.

Shit happens.  Seems they're trying to get all their ducks in a row.  Like they said:  Information is coming soon!

The guys from Mygnrforum DON?T HAVE THE DATES OF THE SOUTH AMERICAN TOUR. They were waiting for Jarmo to make that announcement on Dec 23rd just like the rest of us.

The rumor dates were started by promoters and journalists in South America NOT by Mygnrforum. Fans at Mygnrforum just posted that those rumors were around.

Jarmo got the flyer. How do you think he got it? Management sent it to him. According to Jarmo management was going to give him the dates on Dec 23rd. If that wasn?t the case then Jarmo should have never said he was going to make an announcement. There is no need to announce you got simple flyer. Don?t you think?  Yesterday I saw in GN?R official facebook that we still don?t have the dates confirmed. And that the rumors were just bullshit. But yesterday was not Dec 23rd. What was the announcement that Jarmo was going to make? A happy Holydays?

I only see 2 possibilities. Either Jarmo misunderstood or at the last minute managemnet was told to shut the fuck up. And stop giving information away to unnofficial forums.

I?m afraid announcing announcement is or was the policy. Just last month or so ago Fernando himself issue a short statement saying that they were trying to find the best way to give us what we need the most. And that was information. That?s an announcement about making a future announcement right there.

Why are you so bothered by it all. Have you made plans to go already?

What bothers me is how management handles information/communication. We?re talking about GN?R not some garage band. They gotta be carefull with official information.But they decided to pass around or confirm information in unofficial forums first. GN?R has an official website. it?s not about my personal plans to attend shows. It?s about how things should be run.

I don?t wanna know the official news (of any kind) because management tells Jarmo or Mygnrforum.There is something called press release

And it also bothers me when people here claim that Mygnrforum administrators made things up. If they posted about the Mexico Festival, South American tour and Vegas it was because they asked management and they confirmed.

I think the band were just trying to help people on the forums that were reading provisional/rumoured tour dates by putting the official dates out there quickly, obviously it hasn't happened, so they have done the next best thing and said that the official tour dates will be released shortly.

All I can see is good intention from the band, and you are spitting fire over it, yet you are not even attending. How bizarre

You are obsessed with plans. Ok, in 2002 I planned. I bought tickets. The tour got cancelled because of a riot in Philly. No explanation whatsoever, no rescheduel, nothing. I had to stick my tickets inside my ass. I hope dude that such thing never happen to you. I don?t wish any fan that one. So much for planning, uh?

And just because I?m not going (I don?t live in SA) I can?t travel around the world at this time that doesn?t mean I?m not interested in what they are doing.

I don?t get this thing oh if you?re not going shut the fuck up. I don?t care about who is going and who is not. If people wanna say something who are you to demand they must attend the show in order to speak?  Since when going to a show is a mandatory request to speak in a forum?

I'm not obsessed with anything. I read this thread a few days ago, you were moaning. I read it again today, and you are still moaning. And you are not even going. I just don't get it, that's all. You are like one of those strange ladies you get in London who stand on traffic islands and shout and swear at the traffic lights.

All that matters is the people that will eventually go to these concerts seem quite happy, from what I have read, because the 'announcement of the announcement' is official proof for them that a South American tour is being planned with the tour dates due soon.

[Princess Leia]

I don?t wanna know the official news (of any kind) because management tells Jarmo or Mygnrforum.There is something called press release

And you'll probably get that, once the tour dates are officially announced.  Along with something more specific targeted to "us".

Here's the thing, though:

Fans bitch because the band doesn't communicate well with it's fan base.  That we are left in the dark over and over again.  For the record: I am squarely in the corner of those that believe that, in the past, their communication efforts have left something to be desired.  In other words: I was one of those bitching, too.

And then...the band tries to give the fans a heads up about something that's coming, something that had been rumored (and then was confirmed), and then had more specific rumors circulating (show dates and sites).  They actually targeted, specifically, the fan base to try to get some sort of update to us...

And the fans bitch some more about the form and function of that communication.

We can't have it both ways:

Either

1)The fan base wants ONLY official information via press release and NOTHING ELSE..which means no information until stuff is actually scheduled and happening.  

OR

2) We want them to reach out to us with updates and information as they go through the process.

Scenario 1 means we're going to be left waiting a LOT, and we're only going to hear, say, when a tour is set or an album is getting a release date.  In that case, you'll never get partial or incorrect information, but you're going to get a lot less of it, too.  And you'll never get confirmation/denial of "rumors, either.  "We don't comment on rumors and innuendo" is, perhaps, one of the most used PR lines in history....

Scenario 2 means, sometimes things are going to change, morph, or be incorrect as they work through the process.  But, in that case, we get more information and at least some clues as to where the band is headed, what it's plans are, and where it's collective "head" is at.  So long as they are likewise forthcoming when things change (as they did, and as they were, here), that is.

It seems to me like most of the fanbase has been clamoring for Scenario 2.  

But now wants GnR to be held to the "correctness" standard of Scenario 1.

I don't think there's a "happy medium" between the 2 above scenarios, because, largely, there are timing and logistical hurdles you simply can't overcome.

What I mean is this. Let?s say you have info or rumors about a U.S. tour next summer. You have contact with managemnet and you ask them. The answer to you and everybody should be: 1) If it is true post it in the official website. So you and the whole world get the news.

2) If it is true but details are still being working out. They can confirm and add  "more details to be announced soon. Stay tune" So we have a confirmation and we know there will be more info as soon as possible. 3) If it is not true then they can also post in their official website that there are rumors and those rumors ar false. People shouldn?t believe anything they hear, and so on

All I?m saying is I think this is a better way to do things instead of telling Jarmo or someone at Mygnrforum. And it is even worst if they announce that they are going to announce a tour, album, DVD, or whatever the announcement is about

[Ginger King]

Hold it right there! I won?t tolerate to be called and liar.

Wasn't calling you a liar.  Just pointing out that your logic is flawed.

THEY WERE NOT GIVEN MORE DETAILS.

Not according to them.  What they said was that they aren't at liberty to divulge any further.
And again, I'm not questioning their info.

Jarmo clearly was told in private. Well the guys from Mygnrforum were told in private as well.

No.  Jarmo was given a flyer to post after false info was going around the forums about supposed SA dates & venues, etc.  To date, no official SA dates/venues have been confirmed by GNR or anyone else.

Do I like this kind of policy from management? Hell no!!! Management must make the official information available in the GN?R official website

MY WHOLE POINT WAS/IS, IMO this announcing announcements situation is NOT the policy of the GNR management but is the result of trying to stop all the FALSE dates/venues that have been rumored since the plan of a SA tour was leaked three weeks ago.  Management wasn't given the opportunity to announce the tour through official channels.

Shit happens.  Seems they're trying to get all their ducks in a row.  Like they said:  Information is coming soon!

The guys from Mygnrforum DON?T HAVE THE DATES OF THE SOUTH AMERICAN TOUR. They were waiting for Jarmo to make that announcement on Dec 23rd just like the rest of us.

The rumor dates were started by promoters and journalists in South America NOT by Mygnrforum. Fans at Mygnrforum just posted that those rumors were around.

Jarmo got the flyer. How do you think he got it? Management sent it to him. According to Jarmo management was going to give him the dates on Dec 23rd. If that wasn?t the case then Jarmo should have never said he was going to make an announcement. There is no need to announce you got simple flyer. Don?t you think?  Yesterday I saw in GN?R official facebook that we still don?t have the dates confirmed. And that the rumors were just bullshit. But yesterday was not Dec 23rd. What was the announcement that Jarmo was going to make? A happy Holydays?

I only see 2 possibilities. Either Jarmo misunderstood or at the last minute managemnet was told to shut the fuck up. And stop giving information away to unnofficial forums.

I?m afraid announcing announcement is or was the policy. Just last month or so ago Fernando himself issue a short statement saying that they were trying to find the best way to give us what we need the most. And that was information. That?s an announcement about making a future announcement right there.

Why are you so bothered by it all. Have you made plans to go already?

What bothers me is how management handles information/communication. We?re talking about GN?R not some garage band. They gotta be carefull with official information.But they decided to pass around or confirm information in unofficial forums first. GN?R has an official website. it?s not about my personal plans to attend shows. It?s about how things should be run.

I don?t wanna know the official news (of any kind) because management tells Jarmo or Mygnrforum.There is something called press release

And it also bothers me when people here claim that Mygnrforum administrators made things up. If they posted about the Mexico Festival, South American tour and Vegas it was because they asked management and they confirmed.

I think the band were just trying to help people on the forums that were reading provisional/rumoured tour dates by putting the official dates out there quickly, obviously it hasn't happened, so they have done the next best thing and said that the official tour dates will be released shortly.

All I can see is good intention from the band, and you are spitting fire over it, yet you are not even attending. How bizarre

You are obsessed with plans. Ok, in 2002 I planned. I bought tickets. The tour got cancelled because of a riot in Philly. No explanation whatsoever, no rescheduel, nothing. I had to stick my tickets inside my ass. I hope dude that such thing never happen to you. I don?t wish any fan that one. So much for planning, uh?

And just because I?m not going (I don?t live in SA) I can?t travel around the world at this time that doesn?t mean I?m not interested in what they are doing.

I don?t get this thing oh if you?re not going shut the fuck up. I don?t care about who is going and who is not. If people wanna say something who are you to demand they must attend the show in order to speak?  Since when going to a show is a mandatory request to speak in a forum?

I'm not obsessed with anything. I read this thread a few days ago, you were moaning. I read it again today, and you are still moaning. And you are not even going. I just don't get it, that's all. You are like one of those strange ladies you get in London who stand on traffic islands and shout and swear at the traffic lights.

All that matters is the people that will eventually go to these concerts seem quite happy, from what I have read, because the 'announcement of the announcement' is official proof for them that a South American tour is being planned with the tour dates due soon.

Ok so to be clear, one can only comment (sorry, complain) about the mis-handling of the (self-imposed) announcement if, and only if, they will be personally impacted, affected, or attending the SA shows? 

Also, loved your reasoning that the failure of the announcement was due to the good intentions of the band trying to clear up mis-information that was on some obscure SA promoter's website.  That's some Grade A spin right there.  Truth is: you (like us) have no fucking clue what went wrong or why it went wrong...just that something did and we're all left to wonder what.  So how come your reason is more valid than ours...and which SA show are you going to?

[Princess Leia]

Hold it right there! I won?t tolerate to be called and liar.

Wasn't calling you a liar.  Just pointing out that your logic is flawed.

THEY WERE NOT GIVEN MORE DETAILS.

Not according to them.  What they said was that they aren't at liberty to divulge any further.
And again, I'm not questioning their info.

Jarmo clearly was told in private. Well the guys from Mygnrforum were told in private as well.

No.  Jarmo was given a flyer to post after false info was going around the forums about supposed SA dates & venues, etc.  To date, no official SA dates/venues have been confirmed by GNR or anyone else.

Do I like this kind of policy from management? Hell no!!! Management must make the official information available in the GN?R official website

MY WHOLE POINT WAS/IS, IMO this announcing announcements situation is NOT the policy of the GNR management but is the result of trying to stop all the FALSE dates/venues that have been rumored since the plan of a SA tour was leaked three weeks ago.  Management wasn't given the opportunity to announce the tour through official channels.

Shit happens.  Seems they're trying to get all their ducks in a row.  Like they said:  Information is coming soon!

The guys from Mygnrforum DON?T HAVE THE DATES OF THE SOUTH AMERICAN TOUR. They were waiting for Jarmo to make that announcement on Dec 23rd just like the rest of us.

The rumor dates were started by promoters and journalists in South America NOT by Mygnrforum. Fans at Mygnrforum just posted that those rumors were around.

Jarmo got the flyer. How do you think he got it? Management sent it to him. According to Jarmo management was going to give him the dates on Dec 23rd. If that wasn?t the case then Jarmo should have never said he was going to make an announcement. There is no need to announce you got simple flyer. Don?t you think?  Yesterday I saw in GN?R official facebook that we still don?t have the dates confirmed. And that the rumors were just bullshit. But yesterday was not Dec 23rd. What was the announcement that Jarmo was going to make? A happy Holydays?

I only see 2 possibilities. Either Jarmo misunderstood or at the last minute managemnet was told to shut the fuck up. And stop giving information away to unnofficial forums.

I?m afraid announcing announcement is or was the policy. Just last month or so ago Fernando himself issue a short statement saying that they were trying to find the best way to give us what we need the most. And that was information. That?s an announcement about making a future announcement right there.

Why are you so bothered by it all. Have you made plans to go already?

What bothers me is how management handles information/communication. We?re talking about GN?R not some garage band. They gotta be carefull with official information.But they decided to pass around or confirm information in unofficial forums first. GN?R has an official website. it?s not about my personal plans to attend shows. It?s about how things should be run.

I don?t wanna know the official news (of any kind) because management tells Jarmo or Mygnrforum.There is something called press release

And it also bothers me when people here claim that Mygnrforum administrators made things up. If they posted about the Mexico Festival, South American tour and Vegas it was because they asked management and they confirmed.

I think the band were just trying to help people on the forums that were reading provisional/rumoured tour dates by putting the official dates out there quickly, obviously it hasn't happened, so they have done the next best thing and said that the official tour dates will be released shortly.

All I can see is good intention from the band, and you are spitting fire over it, yet you are not even attending. How bizarre

You are obsessed with plans. Ok, in 2002 I planned. I bought tickets. The tour got cancelled because of a riot in Philly. No explanation whatsoever, no rescheduel, nothing. I had to stick my tickets inside my ass. I hope dude that such thing never happen to you. I don?t wish any fan that one. So much for planning, uh?

And just because I?m not going (I don?t live in SA) I can?t travel around the world at this time that doesn?t mean I?m not interested in what they are doing.

I don?t get this thing oh if you?re not going shut the fuck up. I don?t care about who is going and who is not. If people wanna say something who are you to demand they must attend the show in order to speak?  Since when going to a show is a mandatory request to speak in a forum?

I'm not obsessed with anything. I read this thread a few days ago, you were moaning. I read it again today, and you are still moaning. And you are not even going. I just don't get it, that's all. You are like one of those strange ladies you get in London who stand on traffic islands and shout and swear at the traffic lights.

All that matters is the people that will eventually go to these concerts seem quite happy, from what I have read, because the 'announcement of the announcement' is official proof for them that a South American tour is being planned with the tour dates due soon.

I?ve already knew it was true the day the people from MYgnrforum gave the info. I knew because they said they asked management and they confirmed. So I was sure. I was not concerned with the dates at all. And I?m not concerned now. I?m saying that I don?t like to get news this way. Things get messy, don?t they? Why shouldn?t I point out that things could be done in a better way? I?m not gonna say that everything is perfect and brilliant when I think it is not. I don?t mean only the tour. There is also the Vegas DVD and other things.