Where do we go now

[LongGoneDay]

Because like a football team, it's your job as a fan to enjoy the highs, as well as shouting at them for "sucking" or not performing as well as you expected and hoped for.

Maybe instead of yelling at the band, you should look at your expectations?

So many people get frustrated because GN'R isn't like band X or band Y. In reality, GN'R has never been like any other band! Which is why we love them.

I'm aware that in this day and age, some people get frustrated that one of the bands they listen to isn't like the others. With all the social media and things like that, maybe people get used to certain things and that's the "norm". When somebody doesn't do that, they're "not communicating" or "don't care about their fans". Unfortunate....




/jarmo

It's on the individual to look at his/her own expectations. I agree with that 100%.
Besides, it's the only thing we can control, since we sure as hell aren't influencing GN'R's actions.

I disagree with your point of comparing to other bands, though.
GN'R was at one point in time a lot like other bands. They put out records, music videos, interviews like most bands of their time.
They just happened to create music that I enjoyed more so than any other artist.
That's why I personally loved them.

This is an entirely different era, incarnation of GN'R, and it has next to nothing in common with the young, hungry and productive GN'R of old.

Which brings us back to your point of expectations. Some fans understandably carry over their expectations built up from old Guns to the latest incarnation.
It's up to those fans to look past the name, and see the track record of the different eras. Old Guns disintegrated back in the late 90's.
That means we have 13+ years to look back on. Doesn't necessarily mean the production, or lack thereof will continue, but we know for certain that these are two very different bands, with different members, goals, mindsets, etc and thus expectations should be managed accordingly.

Axl is the constant, but either somethings holding him back, something or someones no longer there to drive/push him, or he's simply at a different stage of his life and motivations have changed. Regardless, there is no evidence over the past 13+ years to suggest that new records, DVDs etc will be flowing into stores.

[team-axl]

im sure jarmo has it's own opinions, and things he thinks should be handled in a different way just like any one of us but he chooses not to go around spreading hate, that doenst mean  it's because of his relationship with him but it may mean that because of that very same relationship that he understands how and why things didn't/don't work the way they should. Just my 2 cents.

If people say something bad about one of you're friends but you know the reasons why he does what he does wouldnt you defend him ?

[el_loko]

GN'R has never been like any other band! Which is why we love them.

Yes, everybody loves GNR because they can't release album in 14 years...

I don't know about you, but I love the band for the music they release.
Maybe you don't like them for the music they don't release when you want them to. That's your problem, not the band's.




/jarmo

Love GNR's music, hate inability to do/release/ finish anything on time. Ask yourself, why Finck left GNR? Why Buckethead left GNR?


And you? When someone bashing GNR because they something is cancelled you answer that was fishy thing from the start. Why everthing is so fishy in GNR? Why they can't work like normal band? Make fanclub function well, told fans what's going on and release music from time to time?

Look at Flaming Lips - major label (Warner Bros.) and they could release one album per 3 years, and make tons of music independently (Chocolate Human Skull, Dark Side of The Moon and The Stone Roses cover albums, The Flaming Lips and Heady Fwends etc.). Why? Because they want and they negotiate this with label?
So why GNR can't do this? Who is to blame that they can't work out something with record label?
Management/Axl.

[jarmo]

And you? When someone bashing GNR because they something is cancelled you answer that was fishy thing from the start.

Yeah, it's my opinion.

Look at Flaming Lips - major label (Warner Bros.) and they could release one album per 3 years, and make tons of music independently (Chocolate Human Skull, Dark Side of The Moon and The Stone Roses cover albums, The Flaming Lips and Heady Fwends etc.). Why? Because they want and they negotiate this with label?
So why GNR can't do this? Who is to blame that they can't work out something with record label?
Management/Axl.

And there's many things GN'R does that I'm sure Flaming Lips can't... It works both ways.




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Jarmo -

Does the band ever do anything you don't approve of?  Or handle something in a way you think may have been ill advised? 

I ask only because it seems like you are not critical of anything, ever.  Sheer logic, if not the simple law of averages, would dictate there must be something they have done these past 5 years you felt wasn't handled the right way.  There must be something.

[slash&axl]

Jarmo -

Does the band ever do anything you don't approve of?  Or handle something in a way you think may have been ill advised? 

I ask only because it seems like you are not critical of anything, ever.  Sheer logic, if not the simple law of averages, would dictate there must be something they have done these past 5 years you felt wasn't handled the right way.  There must be something.

Yeah but why would he bite the hand that feeds, he supports the band because he wants to keep his job and I can't really blame him

[volcano62]

Jarmo -

Does the band ever do anything you don't approve of?  Or handle something in a way you think may have been ill advised? 

I ask only because it seems like you are not critical of anything, ever.  Sheer logic, if not the simple law of averages, would dictate there must be something they have done these past 5 years you felt wasn't handled the right way.  There must be something.

Yeah but why would he bite the hand that feeds, he supports the band because he wants to keep his job and I can't really blame him

Yeah but even at my job when something is ridiculous I'll express that.

When something is ridiculous it's ridiculous.

Management also appreciates the honesty and advice.

[Nightrained]

Jarmo -

Does the band ever do anything you don't approve of?  Or handle something in a way you think may have been ill advised? 

I ask only because it seems like you are not critical of anything, ever.  Sheer logic, if not the simple law of averages, would dictate there must be something they have done these past 5 years you felt wasn't handled the right way.  There must be something.

Yeah but why would he bite the hand that feeds, he supports the band because he wants to keep his job and I can't really blame him

Yeah but even at my job when something is ridiculous I'll express that.

When something is ridiculous it's ridiculous.

Management also appreciates the honesty and advice.

Maybe he does, but just not publicly?

[slash&axl]

Jarmo -

Does the band ever do anything you don't approve of?  Or handle something in a way you think may have been ill advised? 

I ask only because it seems like you are not critical of anything, ever.  Sheer logic, if not the simple law of averages, would dictate there must be something they have done these past 5 years you felt wasn't handled the right way.  There must be something.

Yeah but why would he bite the hand that feeds, he supports the band because he wants to keep his job and I can't really blame him

Yeah but even at my job when something is ridiculous I'll express that.

When something is ridiculous it's ridiculous.

Management also appreciates the honesty and advice.

Yeah, but would you say it to the customer?

[D-GenerationX]

Jarmo -

Does the band ever do anything you don't approve of?  Or handle something in a way you think may have been ill advised? 

I ask only because it seems like you are not critical of anything, ever.  Sheer logic, if not the simple law of averages, would dictate there must be something they have done these past 5 years you felt wasn't handled the right way.  There must be something.

Yeah but why would he bite the hand that feeds, he supports the band because he wants to keep his job and I can't really blame him

Yeah but even at my job when something is ridiculous I'll express that.

When something is ridiculous it's ridiculous.

Management also appreciates the honesty and advice.

Well, I knew these sentiments would be expressed.  And I'm not trying to dump on Jarmo or pick a fight.

I just can't believe in 5 solid years, he didn't once say "yeesh, that's a mistake" or "wow, that's probably not the best way to go about this."

And while I suspect he's going to likely give me some version of "they are going to do what they do, what does it matter what I think", I still think its a fair question he should answer.  I have bands, teams, and public figures I am huge, huge fans of.  That hardly means I think everything they do is awesome.  Or bring out the long knives for anyone that expressed an opinion along dissenting lines.  Its just a conversation.  No one is trashing anyone here.

[jarmo]

Does the band ever do anything you don't approve of? 

I thought about it, and the short answer is "not really".
There's no easy way to describe this, but it has nothing to do with any asses being kissed. No matter how often some strangers on the Internet tries to convince you otherwise.

Everything happens for a reason, and if you can figure out the reason(s), then that's pretty much all you need.
If you know the reason/background/whatever, and still disagree because those things aren't convincing you otherwise, then that's your choice. If you're quick to judge and disagree, then this point won't make any sense. "I don't agree" is all you need to say, anything else is irrelevant.

For example: I can't disagree with something like the band not releasing more albums because it goes against my belief that artists are free to decide when and if they want to release music for us to enjoy.

Disagreeing with choices because I would want/need something else.. I guess I'm not that selfish.
Just because I'd like to see GN'R on TV doesn't mean I need to disagree with them not humping each other at the VMAs...

I just can't believe in 5 solid years, he didn't once say "yeesh, that's a mistake" or "wow, that's probably not the best way to go about this."

If something seems like a mistake but then you learn more about the issue, maybe you might change your mind... 



Now carry on about what an ass kisser I am.   
Well, not here...




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Now carry on about what an ass kisser I am.   
Well, not here...

See, now I'm trying to keep this civilized.  Was this needed?  Knowing that I can't really fire back, or I'm gone?  Not super cool by you.

We actually go back a bit, you and me.  We were both on Jeff's old internet mailing list back in another life.  I'm really not trying to break your balls, just asking a question.

[jarmo]

It was a joke. People read something here and go have discussions about it somewhere else while making all kinds of assumptions.


Yeah, I remember that. The days before Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, streaming shows, P2P and so on...



/jarmo

[Buddha_Master]

I am curious about something maybe one of you can answer.

Let's say Axl never bothered with trying to retain the name Guns N' Roses and the original band broke up with everyone going their separate ways. Axl went on and created a new band like the other OG members did.

If all the rumors around here regarding how many albums or whatever is owed to the record label and that being a possible reason for all these ridiculous holdups for releasing new music.

Would the label sue all the original members for not fulfilling the contract? Or is this all allegedly on Axl because he has ownership of the Guns N' Roses name?

[Nightrained]

I am curious about something maybe one of you can answer.

Let's say Axl never bothered with trying to retain the name Guns N' Roses and the original band broke up with everyone going their separate ways. Axl went on and created a new band like the other OG members did.

If all the rumors around here regarding how many albums or whatever is owed to the record label and that being a possible reason for all these ridiculous holdups for releasing new music.

Would the label sue all the original members for not fulfilling the contract? Or is this all allegedly on Axl because he has ownership of the Guns N' Roses name?

Wasn't that the reason why the released the greatest hits, welcome to the videos, Live Era to get out of the contract?

[Buddha_Master]

I thought that but, there is all this speculation, Jarmo included, suggesting otherwise.

[Ali]

Jarmo -

Does the band ever do anything you don't approve of?  Or handle something in a way you think may have been ill advised? 

I ask only because it seems like you are not critical of anything, ever.  Sheer logic, if not the simple law of averages, would dictate there must be something they have done these past 5 years you felt wasn't handled the right way.  There must be something.

Yeah but why would he bite the hand that feeds, he supports the band because he wants to keep his job and I can't really blame him

Yeah but even at my job when something is ridiculous I'll express that.

When something is ridiculous it's ridiculous.

Management also appreciates the honesty and advice.

Well, I knew these sentiments would be expressed.  And I'm not trying to dump on Jarmo or pick a fight.

I just can't believe in 5 solid years, he didn't once say "yeesh, that's a mistake" or "wow, that's probably not the best way to go about this."

And while I suspect he's going to likely give me some version of "they are going to do what they do, what does it matter what I think", I still think its a fair question he should answer.  I have bands, teams, and public figures I am huge, huge fans of.  That hardly means I think everything they do is awesome.  Or bring out the long knives for anyone that expressed an opinion along dissenting lines.  Its just a conversation.  No one is trashing anyone here.

No offense, but why does it really need to be said that this person or that person associated with the band, or the band as a whole, made a mistake?

They're all human beings, right?  So, by their very nature they are fallible like everyone else, aren't they?

Everyone in the band has made mistakes, and I'm sure many of them.  I'm sure they'll continue to make mistakes.  They wouldn't be human otherwise.

I can't speak for Jarmo, obviously, but he may be saying that hindsight may give the benefit of seeing exactly where things went wrong, or what decision may not have been the best.  But, that may not have been so clear at the time based off the information available.

Ali

[raindogs70]

I am curious about something maybe one of you can answer.

Let's say Axl never bothered with trying to retain the name Guns N' Roses and the original band broke up with everyone going their separate ways. Axl went on and created a new band like the other OG members did.

If all the rumors around here regarding how many albums or whatever is owed to the record label and that being a possible reason for all these ridiculous holdups for releasing new music.

Would the label sue all the original members for not fulfilling the contract? Or is this all allegedly on Axl because he has ownership of the Guns N' Roses name?

If Axl hadn't done that, Slash and Duff could have come together and blocked Axl from using the GNR name, or used it for themselves instead of Velvet Revolver.

Take a look at what happened to Queensryche, now there's TWO bands touring under the same name and releasing CDs with the same name. Fans of course know the story. Alter Bridge probably could have called themselves Creed if they had taken Stapp to court, but the best thing they did was start over from scratch with Myles.

It also prevents Slash and Duff from selling GNR merch at their shows. Not that they would, but they could.

Unrelated: did DJ do some of the tour t-shirts?

[Buddha_Master]

That's fine. My point though is this.

It's been said around here lately that a possible reason for the delay on a follow up to Chinese Democracy is that the record label is still holding things back. Man I should probably be waiting to tomorrow to write stuff here when I'm more lucid.

I'm wondering if that would still be the case if Axl hadn't retained the GNR name. Like if Axl hadn't bothered he might have avoided a lot of this potential nightmare and we might have more material from Axl released.

There is something about the law of attraction. Axl seems to always attract barriers and roadblocks and its always somebody else's fault for this or that but that usually means it is really a self fulfilled prophecy.

Axl wanting full control so bad but still finds himself without it.

[raindogs70]

That's fine. My point though is this.

It's been said around here lately that a possible reason for the delay on a follow up to Chinese Democracy is that the record label is still holding things back. Man I should probably be waiting to tomorrow to write stuff here when I'm more lucid.

I'm wondering if that would still be the case if Axl hadn't retained the GNR name. Like if Axl hadn't bothered he might have avoided a lot of this potential nightmare and we might have more material from Axl released.

There is something about the law of attraction. Axl seems to always attract barriers and roadblocks and its always somebody else's fault for this or that but that usually means it is really a self fulfilled prophecy.

Axl wanting full control so bad but still finds himself without it.

We don't really know what kind of relationship Universal or Interscope has had with GNR for the past 5 years.

People thought he was just going to use the GNR name to sell T-shirts at Hot Topic, not keep the band going. 

We don't know the full story on why it was delayed, it'll be a while before we know what was going on, and even then we won't know everything about it.