Where do we go now

[Fernando]

But hey, at least we got some new leaks about a week ago (Going Down and couple different versions of Better were leaked, search those from the internet if ya wanna hear them, there has been a lot of discussion of these leaks on other, more active GNR forums). Any new music is a positive thing to me, hopefully Axl can now finally start working on the release of the next album.

.... look at this guy.

Spent a few hours reading through what you call "MORE ACTIVE FORUMS", all I read is hatred, racism, put downs, etc...

I along with others can come to either our forums or Jarmo's and actually learn a thing or two, take advice and pay it forward, read a thread without having to shower afterwards, unlike these other "more active forums" you claim. 

One thing I learned, there is always someone in whom thinks they can do your job better than you.  These people are people in whom didn't receive a lot of attention as children; or bullies that thrive in the failures of others, for the sole purpose of the "I told you so" mentality.  Which is truly sad and not a way to live.

We are all on the same boat, to follow a band we love, respect and want to see nothing but the best; however the destructive criticism hinders the outcome.  If your questions go unanswered, I for one am sorry - I wish I did have more time to read through the hate to figure out what the real questions were.  There is a lot of hate.  Have I mentioned of how much hate there is out there?  A lot. 

In regards of this "open letter" to management.  I got mine through a Facebook PM.  Please do imagine how many messages I receive on FB, thousands, which after reading these so-called other forums, I am like, oh - apparently I received a letter that I ignored and ignited further hate towards me as a person, as a minority and as a man or as most of them claim boy.   In the defense of our FB administrator - he did tell me that we had received 5 questions, of the basic form wanting to know what's going on with new music, etc... 

Though I am not belittling anyone in whom conjured these questions; I did not know there was a huge letter attached to it, where it got left unanswered, or as you would say in deaf ears, etc... I understand the frustration to have such a letter go unanswered.  Though it doesn't merit the outcome on these so-called other more active forums.

I do apologize, if my apology means anything to some, sorry.  The GNR FB post, was not an answer to this letter, it truly was just poor timing; but if you are the person in whom thinks negatively 100% of the time, whatever gets said or not said, will always gets contorted to fit your fantasy and further the hate/love towards someone you know nothing about.  (I do say "you" in a general form, not directed at any one individual.)   

Fernando, I sent the letter and the questions on info and admin email from Team Brazil. On Facebook, I only told you I had sent them, and you replied saying you were going to check.
I appreciate the apologies, though.

And, no one "hated" you or anyone for the lack of evidence or anything. We were actually surprised this thing went so far.

I received the letter from facebook, I believe from the idiot I blocked baiting for attention.  Anthony something.

My admin told me about the questions, as I previously stated.  Did not know about this letter.  Again, apologies.

Let's see what we can do.

[Manets]

Anthony Tsunta. He's a fucking idiot. I already told him that he's the kind of douche that makes the fanbase looks bad.
I didn't know he had sent you the letter.

Just for the record, he had absolutely nothing to do with the letter elaboration or the questions pick-up. The whole effort was made by the MyGNR Community, with full support from the administration. The letters were sent to Info and Admin, and I also sent to Nik, who forwared it to both Beta and Kim.

Again, this letter and specially the questions, were picked having in mind "What would end all the complaining and bashing?" I believe having those five questions answered in any ways would put practically all the hate to the ground.

[Fernando]

Anthony Tsunta. He's a fucking idiot. I already told him that he's the kind of douche that makes the fanbase looks bad.
I didn't know he had sent you the letter.

Just for the record, he had absolutely nothing to do with the letter elaboration or the questions pick-up. The whole effort was made by the MyGNR Community, with full support from the administration. The letters were sent to Info and Admin, and I also sent to Nik, who forwared it to both Beta and Kim.

Again, this letter and specially the questions, were picked having in mind "What would end all the complaining and bashing?" I believe having those five questions answered in any ways would put practically all the hate to the ground.

Once LA is open for business I will speak with Kim. 

[bicycle handgrenade]

I found the "letter" to be indicative of the ridiculous sense of entitlement among many of the users on the more negative "fan" sites (use the word fan loosely as so many of the users seem like anything but).

GNR is a band. We are fans. If GNR chooses to release something, we can choose to purchase it. If GNR chooses to perform somewhere, we can choose to attend. Nobody is owed anything in this relationship. Nobody is forced to listen to GNR and GNR isn't forced to do anything.

The problem is that some fans for some reason are under the impression that GNR is obligated to operate under the arbitrary fantasy criteria dreamed up by some fans

The "other" site is beyond saving. Fans who want to have intelligent and respectful conversations about GNR are going to come to HTGTH because this is where the intelligent and respectful users congregate. There are some on the MSL site as well, but out of the most well known sites, HTGTH is the only one that hasn't been ruined by rude, negative, mean spirited people.

[Chinese Monopoly]

Hi Fernando,

I wrote the letter which accompanied the selected 5 questions and I'd like to thank you for your clarification. If you get the time to reply to its contents, that would be great.

None of us condone the downright harassment pereptrated by Anthony Sunta (who for the record, to give it some perspective, is autistic).

[Annie]

I found the "letter" to be indicative of the ridiculous sense of entitlement among many of the users on the more negative "fan" sites (use the word fan loosely as so many of the users seem like anything but).

GNR is a band. We are fans. If GNR chooses to release something, we can choose to purchase it. If GNR chooses to perform somewhere, we can choose to attend. Nobody is owed anything in this relationship. Nobody is forced to listen to GNR and GNR isn't forced to do anything.

The problem is that some fans for some reason are under the impression that GNR is obligated to operate under the arbitrary fantasy criteria dreamed up by some fans

The "other" site is beyond saving. Fans who want to have intelligent and respectful conversations about GNR are going to come to HTGTH because this is where the intelligent and respectful users congregate. There are some on the MSL site as well, but out of the most well known sites, HTGTH is the only one that hasn't been ruined by rude, negative, mean spirited people.

Well said. Thankyou Fernando for your posts. I tried to delete my acccount on that other site and it wouldn't let me.

[Annie]

Hi Fernando,

I wrote the letter which accompanied the selected 5 questions and I'd like to thank you for your clarification. If you get the time to reply to its contents, that would be great.

None of us condone the downright harassment pereptrated by Anthony Sunta (who for the record, to give it some perspective, is autistic).

Let's be careful about posting people's names here. We don't want to fuel more hate.

[Fernando]

Thanks, stepping away for a few.

Jarmo, stay steady there fighter.

See you guys and gals a bit later.

[maynard]

thanks for the answers fernando! all the haters need to stop the bashing and realize the best is yet to come. like mr tommy the general stimson once said:

"get on board or fuck me off!"

 

[Siamese Democracy]

Fernando  -  we love and support Axl and your team.   I enjoyed the Vegas Residency in 2012.  Thank you so very much.  

[Soul Monster]

There are things which are acceptable, then there are things which are just so far off reality that should be taken down due to the mere fact that there is absolutely not progression that can come out of what was said.

I would never expect anyone to agree 100% of the time, that's just not the way the world works and I like that.  Opinions are best when expressed in a cool state of mind with room for correction and/or improvement.

Racism should never be accepted.  That's my opinion, and that is just that - my opinion, which I am sure is shared by oh, hmmm - millions of people. 

But how does it matter whether there are a few disgruntled, obnoxious fans and ex-fans posting at one GN'R forum? How does this affect GN'R, Team Brazil's job and the rest of the fans who are looking for ward to the next chapters in GN'R? Why should any of us, you included, suffer from daft kids who enjoy throwing abuse? You are management, lift yourself above such silliness, take the high road. It should have no bearings on anyone of us. Continue to keep us informed, frustration grows from uncertainty (and please do reply to our FB conversation ). Cheers.

Do you truly believe that the comments of a handful of persons weigh my conscious?  It doesn't, and because of that; it fuels the hatred of these so called "rotten apples". 

Well, it seems to me you are hurt and annoyed by the comments of a few rotten apples, and even more important, it seems like you are suggesting these morons not only get under your skin, but also influence your work: "the destructive criticism hinders the outcome". I understand it is insulting, I understand it hurts, but there is absolutely no other professional way for a manager to deal with this than to rise above it and see the criticism disappear as you continue your good work which includes informing the fan base about the band's plans in a professional and polite manner. The morons who insist on throwing abuse and racial slurs doesn't even deserve your attention.

I got a question; being that this is such a "tight" community, how can the mass just ignore the redundancy of these "rotten apples"?  When a simple hey joe, enough?  If that doesn't work, a vote to get a certain post deleted and that person warned?  I don't care either way, it's just an opinion.

Most forums doesn't tolerate racial attacks, hate posts, etc. They are more or less immediately deleted by the mods and admins. This goes for this forum, mye own site, and many others. Don't let the strategy/attitude of some other forums ruin our reputation.

Also, who made these people superior to say housekeepers is something someone should be ashamed of? 

What do they do that is so important and life changing that far supersedes this so "ashamed" profession? 

Anyone in whom have maids, or has had someone clean their house for them; I doubt there was not one ounce of respect where a simple hi and thank you weren't exchanged.  It baffles me that these people are considered comedic by others.

Only reason I am addressing this is because if I don't; it'll only get worse and I feel enough is enough.  These rotten apples will surely fire back with some witty responses, which will hopefully show some of the others that it gets quite boring.

I am afraid that by displaying so acutely that their hate posts get to you, they will only continue their attacks on forums that allow them. There will always be haters in this world, and there will always be arenas where they are allowed to spread their shit. Rise above the hate posts. They come with the terroitory of being in your position as a manager. Keep the frustration in the fan base to a minimum by regularly informing us of your plans, and not only what will happen in the next months but what Axl's current vision for Guns N' Roses is.

[Conan]

Are you referring to the MyGNR letter?

No. They wrote a letter?

Certain fans seem to have a need to be told they're appreciated on a constant basis. They demand updates, like I mentioned earlier, even when there's nothing to update about. If you've been a GN'R fan for a few years, you know this already. Same drill, different year. "We need updates".


I don't know why this Conan person thinks otherwise. Maybe it's convenience , it all fits the picture considering I'm not exactly popular on that site. 

/jarmo

Well now we ALL know a letter was written in a respectful manner and passed to the band through the correct channels, I guess we'll see if there's a response.

I don't post on MYGNR and I don't agree with the (seemingly) general opinion of you over there. At least you run a reasonable forum, not full of spite. My frustration was soley to do with an apparent complete lack of response, not what was said in any such response. If GNR have nothing to update so be it, but we were told from a couple of different sources the Rockfuel DVD would be out this summer.

That date remains on Rockfuel's website here:

http://rockfuelmedia.com/event/guns-n-roses-3d-appetite-for-democracy-live-at-the-hard-rock-las-vegas/

We've been told by Richard and DJ over and over again that music is recorded and they are working on a new GNR album.

Apparently one that Ron, Tommy, Frank, Dizzy and Chris seem to know nothing about and one that Axl can only opine so far as "definitely maybe".

Some clarification either way from the official source would go a long way to repairing this relationship and even if it's only and official "we have nothing ready to go yet, but we hope to one day" then that's cool by me.

Edit: Btw Fernando if you ever read this. Visit MyGNR and look at the Rockfuel DVD thread. When the summer 2013 release date was put up there was nothing but goodwill and excitement about the upcoming release. Food for thought right there man. Nothing but goodwill and best wishes, when the majority thought they were about to get even a DVD of concerts they'd already seen one way or the other.

Imagine what an album or a single would do...

[jarmo]

Soul Monster, just because somebody describes what he's/she's seen, doesn't meant it affects them or their actions.

But you can't win with some people. If you truly believe that communication is the answer to shut these people up, I think you're wrong.... How often have they've been unhappy with answers given to them, or interviews by band members? Just because they didn't get the answers they wanted...




/jarmo

[Soul Monster]

Soul Monster, just because somebody describes what he's/she's seen, doesn't meant it affects them or their actions.

But you can't win with some people. If you truly believe that communication is the answer to shut these people up, I think you're wrong.... How often have they've been unhappy with answers given to them, or interviews by band members? Just because they didn't get the answers they wanted...

Fernando said, "the destructive criticism hinders the outcome". I don't know how else that should be interpreted. And the fact that he decides to post here to talk about the haters who insult him and his family, pretty conclusively tells us it does affect him.

I have never said we should communicate with the assholes. I suggested rather explicitly that Fernando shouldn't even acknowledge their existence. After all, they are confined to more or less one forum which is easily avoided.

But it is also important to keep the uncertainty levels down through informing us of the band's plans both for the short and the long term, and by doing this Team Brazil can keep the overall frustration among the real fans lower than it is today. It is well and good to tell us nothing concrete can be disclosed (as per Fernando's recent tweet), but it would also be nice to know what Axl wants with the band now. He was pretty communicative prior to CD's release, but it is obvious his plans has fallen apart (or at least the timeline for them has) and that makes us wonder: what is happening now? If we weren't curious about these things we wouldn't really be fans .

[Manets]

Agreed. There's nothing wrong if us asking. The letter was not demanding answers, the opposite of that, actually.

[scans n' copies]

So nice to see some civil communication between the camp and fans there.  Thanks for that Fernando.

But I think  soul monster was spot on with his discussion points.  The rotten apples REALLY stink but you can't let them "spoil the whole damn bunch".  Rise above their stupid, never-gonna-be-happy attitude and concentrate on the 98.43% of your fanbase that is loyal, supportive, and genuinely wants to see the band have big success.  And if the "more active" forum sucks so badly, stay away from it!  There's plenty of good ones out there.  Pick one and have a teensy bit of back and forth like this thread and then you'll see which forums are active or not.       

Even the reply about the letter "Let's see what we can do" was encouraging.  Good stuff.

[Manets]

The "most active forum" is not a bad, hateful place. It is the only place where all kinds of opinions are allowed, that includes hateful opinions from douches, yes, but they're just a few.

[jarmo]

Fernando said, "the destructive criticism hinders the outcome". I don't know how else that should be interpreted. And the fact that he decides to post here to talk about the haters who insult him and his family, pretty conclusively tells us it does affect him.

Affecting as in "you took time out of your day to respond"?

I don't think it affects him in the way that he loses sleep over it or let's it affect his job or decision making.

The "most active forum" is not a bad, hateful place. It is the only place where all kinds of opinions are allowed, that includes hateful opinions from douches, yes, but they're just a few.

I find it somewhat ironic that places where that kind of behavior is allowed are "demanding" communication from the band. The band that, according to these people, rarely do anything right.
It's kinda like an elementary school playground. You bully a person, and then expect him to play along when you're one guy short on your team... 



I decided ages ago that I can't stand for turning this web site into a breeding ground for that kind of behavior. I'm sorry if it upsets some of you.
I'd rather have an intelligent constructive conversation than read pages and pages of somebody's attention seeking negativity filled verbal diarrhea. But that's just me!




/jarmo

[Manets]

No one is demmanding anything. Did you even read the letter? One of the GNR employees told me the letter was excellent and very touching, but I guess you'd know better, right? 

And "attention seeking negativity filled verbal diarrhea"? What? Do you even read MyGNR? Because if you did you'd know it's nothing like it. Even if it was, though... Better than thiz zombieland. The biggest activity you had this week was just today when people from MyGNR came to post here. Congratulations.

[jarmo]

No one is demmanding anything. Did you even read the letter? One of the GNR employees told me the letter was excellent and very touching, but I guess you'd know better, right? 

I know better than what?
That once there was a tweet, some people got upset about it? Because they felt targeted? Because they felt that was a response to their touching letter?

Congratulations on writing a touching and excellent letter.


No one is demanding anything? Aren't you the same person who said something like "all we want is a new album"? And then got upset by the response to your comment?

And "attention seeking negativity filled verbal diarrhea"? What? Do you even read MyGNR? Because if you did you'd know it's nothing like it. Even if it was, though... Better than thiz zombieland. The biggest activity you had this week was just today when people from MyGNR came to post here. Congratulations.

It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside to think that you had to come here to communicate with management.
Quality over quantity.


Sorry if you felt targeted. Or maybe you're defending your online pals. It's understandable. After all, didn't they used to make fun of you in the past?




/jarmo