Where do we go now

[Dok]

I don't think it's fair to say that everyone who feels that a new GN'R album is long overdue would have "always found something else to complain about anyway". There are actually a lot of fans who support the band wholeheartedly, who travel all over the world to see them... who also feel the same.

I know, and I'm not talking about the real fans.

I'm talking about a small vocal group who are overly negative and very rarely have anything good to say about anything relating to GN'R. Quick to demand things, and quick to belittle the band and its members.




/jarmo

So according to your logic "real fans" never question anything concerning the way GNR does things? I found it a pretty good point that was made a couple of posts before about nothing being wrong in being critical as there wouldn't be a point in criticizing something you don't care about. I don't know...have you ever withnessed sports fans being angry at their team because, for example, they played not well enough or seemed to have lacked attitude (according to the fans expectations)? Would you also agree that those people, being in the stadium for every game and spending their holidays and mony for travelling with their club, are no "real fans" because they voice their opinion in a vocal way?

How do you know who the "real fans" of GNR are and that what they think and want differs from those who are outspoken about their desire for new music and different songs being played live? How do you know the majority of GNR fans is happy with how things are going? What gives you the right to categorize fans in "good and evil"?

And even if, according to you, it's only a small vocal group being negative. Why do you even give a fuck?

[jarmo]

Real fans are aware of how the band works. After all, they are real fans who have followed the band for some time.

They know demanding things and endless whining never amount to anything.



Yeah, sports fans can be criticizing their team, favorite athlete whatever. But after the match has been played or the race raced, it doesn't really change the result no matter how upset or angry you are. 

How do you know who the "real fans" of GNR are and that what they think and want differs from those who are outspoken about their desire for new music and different songs being played live? How do you know the majority of GNR fans is happy with how things are going?

Because I've seen plenty of them around.

By the way, nowhere did I say they don't want to hear new music. You need to understand the difference between wanting new music from your favorite band and demanding things from your favorite (?) band.

What gives you the right to categorize fans in "good and evil"?

I'm sure I'm allowed to have an opinion. That's what it's called, my opinion.

And even if, according to you, it's only a small vocal group being negative. Why do you even give a fuck?

Sometimes it's good to remember that the most vocal ones aren't necessarily the majority.



/jarmo

[ToonGuns]

First time back here in ages... seems like nothings changed though   

I am a real fan - I've listened to the band for years, still do, go and see them as often as they tour and as often as I can afford... however new music I believe is needed. I listen to many many bands - however most have more than 4 or 5 albums and I think that is the key difference between other bands and GnR - GnR's musical output is at the lower end of the frequency scale. I really hope they can resolve things and release the good music I know they will have already recorded, and will record.

[carmiedisco12]

Jarmo i think you may be confusing "fan" with "fanatic". I don't see why you have to hand in your logical critical faculties at the door to be considered a "fan". Only a complete imbecile or masochist could possibly be uncritical of this band. I would say don't shoot the messenger on this one.

So long as the criticism isn't purely malicious and relates to the elelphant in the room we can all see then discussion is healthy,let it go.

GNR 'fans' aren't born any different to fans of any other band. We have just had Wayyyyyyyyyyy more disappointment to content with and the band sadly have failed to deliver on the promise of a new direction.
How can anyone who defended Axl and "Nu-GNR" from 96-2008 fail to be bummed that the promises and potential led to very little?? Axl screamed round 1 but never got out of his chair for round 2. I'm not being nasty, more a little sad that so much talent has gone to waste. The band does not appear to be a creative entity and I though the whole point of the new band was to move forward and create a new legacy. Oh well.

Critical opinion isn't a conspiracy to attack Axl, it's a reflection of the disappointment from people who want the best for the guy. Isn't it better that people are bummed there is no new music or direction than people stop caring at all?? I would say be grateful rather than annoyed Jarmo. No new music and at some point this board will die a slow death.

[jarmo]

Jarmo i think you may be confusing "fan" with "fanatic".

Well correct me if I'm wrong but the word fan came from the word fanatic... 

So long as the criticism isn't purely malicious and relates to the elelphant in the room we can all see then discussion is healthy,let it go.

I guess we got different opinions on what healthy is.

Also, it's one thing to be critical for the sake of being critical, which some are. Whatever their reason(s) might be, there's plenty to choose from.
Or to offer constructive criticism!

GNR 'fans' aren't born any different to fans of any other band. We have just had Wayyyyyyyyyyy more disappointment to content with and the band sadly have failed to deliver on the promise of a new direction.
How can anyone who defended Axl and "Nu-GNR" from 96-2008 fail to be bummed that the promises and potential led to very little?? Axl screamed round 1 but never got out of his chair for round 2. I'm not being nasty, more a little sad that so much talent has gone to waste. The band does not appear to be a creative entity and I though the whole point of the new band was to move forward and create a new legacy. Oh well.

It all depends on your point of view.

It's easy to say "oh but they spent all those years doing nothing, they should've released at least ___ albums in that time". That's easy.
But then again, you can also say "well, maybe most bands would've given up at that point".

Whatever happened, happened for a reason, or reasons. Everybody knows this. But some choose to just go for the simple answer. That's true for a lot of things. It's always easier to label somebody as an asshole if they're not acting like you expect, than to figure out why they didn't do what you expected. For example.

Critical opinion isn't a conspiracy to attack Axl, it's a reflection of the disappointment from people who want the best for the guy. Isn't it better that people are bummed there is no new music or direction than people stop caring at all?? I would say be grateful rather than annoyed Jarmo. No new music and at some point this board will die a slow death.

Yes, there's good in everything. Wish more GN'R fans would see that!





/jarmo

[Jude]

But hey, at least we got some new leaks about a week ago (Going Down and couple different versions of Better were leaked, search those from the internet if ya wanna hear them, there has been a lot of discussion of these leaks on other, more active GNR forums). Any new music is a positive thing to me, hopefully Axl & the band can now finally start working on the release of the next album.

[Fernando]

But hey, at least we got some new leaks about a week ago (Going Down and couple different versions of Better were leaked, search those from the internet if ya wanna hear them, there has been a lot of discussion of these leaks on other, more active GNR forums). Any new music is a positive thing to me, hopefully Axl can now finally start working on the release of the next album.

.... look at this guy.

Spent a few hours reading through what you call "MORE ACTIVE FORUMS", all I read is hatred, racism, put downs, etc...

I along with others can come to either our forums or Jarmo's and actually learn a thing or two, take advice and pay it forward, read a thread without having to shower afterwards, unlike these other "more active forums" you claim. 

One thing I learned, there is always someone in whom thinks they can do your job better than you.  These people are people in whom didn't receive a lot of attention as children; or bullies that thrive in the failures of others, for the sole purpose of the "I told you so" mentality.  Which is truly sad and not a way to live.

We are all on the same boat, to follow a band we love, respect and want to see nothing but the best; however the destructive criticism hinders the outcome.  If your questions go unanswered, I for one am sorry - I wish I did have more time to read through the hate to figure out what the real questions were.  There is a lot of hate.  Have I mentioned of how much hate there is out there?  A lot. 

In regards of this "open letter" to management.  I got mine through a Facebook PM.  Please do imagine how many messages I receive on FB, thousands, which after reading these so-called other forums, I am like, oh - apparently I received a letter that I ignored and ignited further hate towards me as a person, as a minority and as a man or as most of them claim boy.   In the defense of our FB administrator - he did tell me that we had received 5 questions, of the basic form wanting to know what's going on with new music, etc... 

Though I am not belittling anyone in whom conjured these questions; I did not know there was a huge letter attached to it, where it got left unanswered, or as you would say in deaf ears, etc... I understand the frustration to have such a letter go unanswered.  Though it doesn't merit the outcome on these so-called other more active forums.

I do apologize, if my apology means anything to some, sorry.  The GNR FB post, was not an answer to this letter, it truly was just poor timing; but if you are the person in whom thinks negatively 100% of the time, whatever gets said or not said, will always gets contorted to fit your fantasy and further the hate/love towards someone you know nothing about.  (I do say "you" in a general form, not directed at any one individual.)   

[Nightrained]

The 'haters' are a small minority who repeat themselves daily. I doubt they would even go to a GNR show if one was in there city.

Try not to let those people get in the way of the more positive fans who want to know the intentions/future of there favourite band. 

[LIGuns]

Even if GN'R had released a new album every 18 months, there'd still be things to complain about. We know that much.
Nobody's fooling anybody by acting like the release of an album is gonna make everything great all of a sudden. We have the past as proof of that.




Your 100% correct and it's a shame that things haven't changed..Back in 1991 it seemed like an eternity between AFD and UYI. When UYI was finally released I remember people saying it should have been 1 consolidated album...Funny thing is 1 consolidated album consisting of NR,Coma,Estranged, and Civil War would not have left enough space for many more songs and certainly would have left room for more griping..

[Dr. Blutarsky]

To put things into perspective all you have to do is remember what things were like to be a fan in the dark days of the late 1990's and to a lesser extent 2003-2005.   

[russtcb]

But hey, at least we got some new leaks about a week ago (Going Down and couple different versions of Better were leaked, search those from the internet if ya wanna hear them, there has been a lot of discussion of these leaks on other, more active GNR forums). Any new music is a positive thing to me, hopefully Axl can now finally start working on the release of the next album.

.... look at this guy.

Spent a few hours reading through what you call "MORE ACTIVE FORUMS", all I read is hatred, racism, put downs, etc...

I along with others can come to either our forums or Jarmo's and actually learn a thing or two, take advice and pay it forward, read a thread without having to shower afterwards, unlike these other "more active forums" you claim. 

One thing I learned, there is always someone in whom thinks they can do your job better than you.  These people are people in whom didn't receive a lot of attention as children; or bullies that thrive in the failures of others, for the sole purpose of the "I told you so" mentality.  Which is truly sad and not a way to live.

We are all on the same boat, to follow a band we love, respect and want to see nothing but the best; however the destructive criticism hinders the outcome.  If your questions go unanswered, I for one am sorry - I wish I did have more time to read through the hate to figure out what the real questions were.  There is a lot of hate.  Have I mentioned of how much hate there is out there?  A lot. 

In regards of this "open letter" to management.  I got mine through a Facebook PM.  Please do imagine how many messages I receive on FB, thousands, which after reading these so-called other forums, I am like, oh - apparently I received a letter that I ignored and ignited further hate towards me as a person, as a minority and as a man or as most of them claim boy.   In the defense of our FB administrator - he did tell me that we had received 5 questions, of the basic form wanting to know what's going on with new music, etc... 

Though I am not belittling anyone in whom conjured these questions; I did not know there was a huge letter attached to it, where it got left unanswered, or as you would say in deaf ears, etc... I understand the frustration to have such a letter go unanswered.  Though it doesn't merit the outcome on these so-called other more active forums.

I do apologize, if my apology means anything to some, sorry.  The GNR FB post, was not an answer to this letter, it truly was just poor timing; but if you are the person in whom thinks negatively 100% of the time, whatever gets said or not said, will always gets contorted to fit your fantasy and further the hate/love towards someone you know nothing about.  (I do say "you" in a general form, not directed at any one individual.)   

I agree with you here and just posted that sentiment on the board you're probably referring to. It's going to take some work on both sides to get everyone back on the same page but I really do think it's doable.

Everyone can't agree all the time, but I definitely think there's a middle ground between insults being hurled back and forth.

[Fernando]

Everyone can't agree all the time, but I definitely think there's a middle ground between insults being hurled back and forth.

There are things which are acceptable, then there are things which are just so far off reality that should be taken down due to the mere fact that there is absolutely not progression that can come out of what was said.

I would never expect anyone to agree 100% of the time, that's just not the way the world works and I like that.  Opinions are best when expressed in a cool state of mind with room for correction and/or improvement.

Racism should never be accepted.  That's my opinion, and that is just that - my opinion, which I am sure is shared by oh, hmmm - millions of people. 

[russtcb]

Everyone can't agree all the time, but I definitely think there's a middle ground between insults being hurled back and forth.

There are things which are acceptable, then there are things which are just so far off reality that should be taken down due to the mere fact that there is absolutely not progression that can come out of what was said.

I would never expect anyone to agree 100% of the time, that's just not the way the world works and I like that.  Opinions are best when expressed in a cool state of mind with room for correction and/or improvement.

Racism should never be accepted.  That's my opinion, and that is just that - my opinion, which I am sure is shared by oh, hmmm - millions of people. 

[/quote]

I completely agree. I'll PM you to continue the conversation if you're interested as I truly do believe there's a way to improve this situation.

[gunns1]

Everyone can't agree all the time, but I definitely think there's a middle ground between insults being hurled back and forth.

There are things which are acceptable, then there are things which are just so far off reality that should be taken down due to the mere fact that there is absolutely not progression that can come out of what was said.

I would never expect anyone to agree 100% of the time, that's just not the way the world works and I like that.  Opinions are best when expressed in a cool state of mind with room for correction and/or improvement.

Racism should never be accepted.  That's my opinion, and that is just that - my opinion, which I am sure is shared by oh, hmmm - millions of people. 

I agree with you fernando, racism has no place in this world. I hope things start becoming more positive both for the gnr community and for the band itself!
looking forward to 2014

[Soul Monster]

There are things which are acceptable, then there are things which are just so far off reality that should be taken down due to the mere fact that there is absolutely not progression that can come out of what was said.

I would never expect anyone to agree 100% of the time, that's just not the way the world works and I like that.  Opinions are best when expressed in a cool state of mind with room for correction and/or improvement.

Racism should never be accepted.  That's my opinion, and that is just that - my opinion, which I am sure is shared by oh, hmmm - millions of people. 

But how does it matter whether there are a few disgruntled, obnoxious fans and ex-fans posting at one GN'R forum? How does this affect GN'R, Team Brazil's job and the rest of the fans who are looking for ward to the next chapters in GN'R? Why should any of us, you included, suffer from daft kids who enjoy throwing abuse? You are management, lift yourself above such silliness, take the high road. It should have no bearings on anyone of us. Continue to keep us informed, frustration grows from uncertainty (and please do reply to our FB conversation ). Cheers.

[Jude]

But how does it matter whether there are a few disgruntled, obnoxious fans and ex-fans posting at one GN'R forum? How does this affect GN'R, Team Brazil's job and the rest of the fans who are looking for ward to the next chapters in GN'R? Why should any of us, you included, suffer from daft kids who enjoy throwing abuse? You are management, lift yourself above such silliness, take the high road. It should have no bearings on anyone of us. Continue to keep us informed, frustration grows from uncertainty (and please do reply to our FB conversation ). Cheers.

I totally agree with you Soul Monster (especially with that bold part).

On the other hand I understand Fernando's point of view too, some people have crossed the line with the accusations that are way too personal. I understand constructive criticism but I don't want to see things getting personal.

But should all this nonsense be slowing down the process of releasing new music?? Hell no, there always be internet trolls and haters, but in the end it goes like Soul Monster said, lift yourself above this sillines and take the high road.

To put things into perspective all you have to do is remember what things were like to be a fan in the dark days of the late 1990's and to a lesser extent 2003-2005.   

Yeah, this is true and GNR's new management has done many good things lately (a lot of touring, Las Vegas residency etc.) and I hope the year 2014 will be the best possible for the band, the next obvious step could be a new album release.

[One.In.A.Million]

I think it's a good thing that Fernando feels comfortable posting here, that's something we all appreciate. Regarding the topic, I have to say that I feel a lot of it has to do with simple communication. I think it has alot to do with when people don't know what's going on with plans, albums, tours etc, they naturally vent. While I do realise that there are a hell of alot of "fans" who act immature in "venting", I also can't deny that GN'R in theory could do more in keeping fans in the loop as to what's planned and how things are progressing.

[Fernando]

There are things which are acceptable, then there are things which are just so far off reality that should be taken down due to the mere fact that there is absolutely not progression that can come out of what was said.

I would never expect anyone to agree 100% of the time, that's just not the way the world works and I like that.  Opinions are best when expressed in a cool state of mind with room for correction and/or improvement.

Racism should never be accepted.  That's my opinion, and that is just that - my opinion, which I am sure is shared by oh, hmmm - millions of people. 

But how does it matter whether there are a few disgruntled, obnoxious fans and ex-fans posting at one GN'R forum? How does this affect GN'R, Team Brazil's job and the rest of the fans who are looking for ward to the next chapters in GN'R? Why should any of us, you included, suffer from daft kids who enjoy throwing abuse? You are management, lift yourself above such silliness, take the high road. It should have no bearings on anyone of us. Continue to keep us informed, frustration grows from uncertainty (and please do reply to our FB conversation ). Cheers.

Do you truly believe that the comments of a handful of persons weigh my conscious?  It doesn't, and because of that; it fuels the hatred of these so called "rotten apples". 

I got a question; being that this is such a "tight" community, how can the mass just ignore the redundancy of these "rotten apples"?  When a simple hey joe, enough?  If that doesn't work, a vote to get a certain post deleted and that person warned?  I don't care either way, it's just an opinion.

Also, who made these people superior to say housekeepers is something someone should be ashamed of? 

What do they do that is so important and life changing that far supersedes this so "ashamed" profession? 

Anyone in whom have maids, or has had someone clean their house for them; I doubt there was not one ounce of respect where a simple hi and thank you weren't exchanged.  It baffles me that these people are considered comedic by others.

Only reason I am addressing this is because if I don't; it'll only get worse and I feel enough is enough.  These rotten apples will surely fire back with some witty responses, which will hopefully show some of the others that it gets quite boring.

[Manets]

But hey, at least we got some new leaks about a week ago (Going Down and couple different versions of Better were leaked, search those from the internet if ya wanna hear them, there has been a lot of discussion of these leaks on other, more active GNR forums). Any new music is a positive thing to me, hopefully Axl can now finally start working on the release of the next album.

.... look at this guy.

Spent a few hours reading through what you call "MORE ACTIVE FORUMS", all I read is hatred, racism, put downs, etc...

I along with others can come to either our forums or Jarmo's and actually learn a thing or two, take advice and pay it forward, read a thread without having to shower afterwards, unlike these other "more active forums" you claim. 

One thing I learned, there is always someone in whom thinks they can do your job better than you.  These people are people in whom didn't receive a lot of attention as children; or bullies that thrive in the failures of others, for the sole purpose of the "I told you so" mentality.  Which is truly sad and not a way to live.

We are all on the same boat, to follow a band we love, respect and want to see nothing but the best; however the destructive criticism hinders the outcome.  If your questions go unanswered, I for one am sorry - I wish I did have more time to read through the hate to figure out what the real questions were.  There is a lot of hate.  Have I mentioned of how much hate there is out there?  A lot. 

In regards of this "open letter" to management.  I got mine through a Facebook PM.  Please do imagine how many messages I receive on FB, thousands, which after reading these so-called other forums, I am like, oh - apparently I received a letter that I ignored and ignited further hate towards me as a person, as a minority and as a man or as most of them claim boy.   In the defense of our FB administrator - he did tell me that we had received 5 questions, of the basic form wanting to know what's going on with new music, etc... 

Though I am not belittling anyone in whom conjured these questions; I did not know there was a huge letter attached to it, where it got left unanswered, or as you would say in deaf ears, etc... I understand the frustration to have such a letter go unanswered.  Though it doesn't merit the outcome on these so-called other more active forums.

I do apologize, if my apology means anything to some, sorry.  The GNR FB post, was not an answer to this letter, it truly was just poor timing; but if you are the person in whom thinks negatively 100% of the time, whatever gets said or not said, will always gets contorted to fit your fantasy and further the hate/love towards someone you know nothing about.  (I do say "you" in a general form, not directed at any one individual.)   

Fernando, I sent the letter and the questions on info and admin email from Team Brazil. On Facebook, I only told you I had sent them, and you replied saying you were going to check.
I appreciate the apologies, though.

And, no one "hated" you or anyone for the lack of evidence or anything. We were actually surprised this thing went so far.

[Fernando]

I think it's a good thing that Fernando feels comfortable posting here, that's something we all appreciate. Regarding the topic, I have to say that I feel a lot of it has to do with simple communication. I think it has alot to do with when people don't know what's going on with plans, albums, tours etc, they naturally vent. While I do realise that there are a hell of alot of "fans" who act immature in "venting", I also can't deny that GN'R in theory could do more in keeping fans in the loop as to what's planned and how things are progressing.

I agree with you.