2013 Baseball Season/Off-Season Discussion

[tim_m]

The Yankees might not be done today yet, they are close to signing 2b/lf Johnson to a 1 year deal.

Smart move, nice player they can move all over the field.

I suspect this is some insurance in the likelihood they don't resign Cano.

[pilferk]

Like the player. He's very similar to Gardner...but quite a bit better with the stick. The questions are a) do the yanks keep Gardner and b) who plays center.  I hope the keep Gardner...but can see them flipping him for a quality infielder. Gardner only has 1 year left on his deal....but he is not going to be an expensive signing.  Though given this deal....which brings me to.....

HATE the contract. Too long for too much $$ for a guy who is fragile, and who's game is based largely n his speed/legs. To tie that guy up til he's 37 or 38 is madness, and I don't see anyone n the market who would have offered a similar deal. They just don't seem to learn from their mistakes.

[GeorgeSteele]

Hard to defend that contract for Ellsbury.  Maybe Yankee brass think the Stadium's dimensions will make Ellsbury's 2011 numbers the norm rather than the outlier, though his career numbers at Yankee Stadium don't suggest that.  If his Yankee seasons will be 2011-like or close, then the deal was the right one. 

I still think they re-sign Cano, it sounds like the Yanks will go just to the brink of $200M and Cano will take that.   
 

[faldor]

Like the player. He's very similar to Gardner...but quite a bit better with the stick. The questions are a) do the yanks keep Gardner and b) who plays center.  I hope the keep Gardner...but can see them flipping him for a quality infielder. Gardner only has 1 year left on his deal....but he is not going to be an expensive signing.  Though given this deal....which brings me to.....

HATE the contract. Too long for too much $$ for a guy who is fragile, and who's game is based largely n his speed/legs. To tie that guy up til he's 37 or 38 is madness, and I don't see anyone n the market who would have offered a similar deal. They just don't seem to learn from their mistakes.

Agree on all fronts.  Ellsbury is a fine player and will improve the Yankees on offense, defense, and on the bases.  I'd imagine they'd move Gardner to LF.  That'd be similar to the Sox last year having Ells in CF and Victorino in RF.  A lot of ground covered in that OF, which would be helpful in spacious Yankee Stadium.  One of the best leadoff men in the game can't possibly hurt the lineup.

But the contract is beyond ridiculous.  The Sox were willing to go 5/100, and I think even that is beyond generous.  I thought the Red Sox did the league a favor by showing them it isn't smart giving guys who base their game off their speed mega deals with the Carl Crawford debacle.  Now look, I'm not comparing the 2 equally.  I do think Ellsbury is a more proven commodity and can hack it in a big East Coast market.  Something Carl could never do.  But 153 million for a guy who had ONE GREAT season, doesn't translate.  Granted if Yankee Stadium can turn him into a perennial 20 homer guy we may have a discussion.  But I'm not sure that's going to happen.

Cano must be thinking to himself, if they're willing to pay Ellsbury that much, he'll be a very happy man when all is said and done.  Because if the Yankees let Cano walk, this Ellsbury deal looks even worse because Cano is the better player by a good margin.  With that said, I think they'll get a deal done in the neighborhood of 200 million or so.   

Not sure what the Red Sox will do in response.  I know they were prepared for Ells leaving town.  That was no secret.  They love Victorino's defense in RF, so I'm sure they'd like to keep him there instead of moving him to CF, but that would be an option.  There was talk of Beltran early on but it looks like he's going to KC.  They could always give Jackie Bradley Jr. the reigns in CF, as that was the plan for the future.  Just not sure the future is now on that front.  Maybe if they weren't coming off a World Series win and just had a respectable season but expectations have been raised a bit.  Plus they'd already have at least Bogaerts and possibly Middlebrooks in the lineup, depending on what happens with Drew.  That'd be 3 young players in the mix.  That's a lot for a big market team like the Sox.  I doubt they'd go after Choo, but who knows.  I guess if it's on their terms anything is possible.

[pilferk]

Agree on all fronts.  Ellsbury is a fine player and will improve the Yankees on offense, defense, and on the bases.  I'd imagine they'd move Gardner to LF.  That'd be similar to the Sox last year having Ells in CF and Victorino in RF.  A lot of ground covered in that OF, which would be helpful in spacious Yankee Stadium.  One of the best leadoff men in the game can't possibly hurt the lineup.

I agree...Gardner probably goes back to LF, with Soriano in RF.  But..honestly...I think they're a better team if Gardner plays CF.  Ellsbury covers as much ground, but Gardner has the better arm.  Though putting Ellsbury in LF isn't going to be easy on his arm, either...and putting him in RF is just a waste.  Ichiro is a 8million backup OFer.  Wells gets DFA'd.  That's my opinion, but I'm pretty confident in it.

And while Ellsbury is a great leadoff guy....he might not lead off on the Yanks.  There's a better than good shot they move him to the 2 slot, and Jeter continues to lead off.  Gardner takes up his requisite slot in the 9 hole.

But 1st or 2nd, Ellsbury is a dramatic upgrade from everyone in the Yanks every day lineup last year EXCEPT Cano.  So...yeah...a nice upgrade.  Just not at the price they're paying.

I don't know how, as the Yanks brass, you look at Cano and tell him that, with Ellsbury being a 7 year, 148 million player (the extra 5 mill is the buyout on the club option for year , that he's not worth 8 and 200.  At least with a straight face.

Which means that, as I predicted a bit earlier in this thread, it look like plan 189 is out the window.

I think the Sox go after Choo.  Maybe not..maybe they look for something else...Granderson, maybe?  But we'll see.

[faldor]

I think the Sox go after Choo.  Maybe not..maybe they look for something else...Granderson, maybe?  But we'll see.

Gordon Edes tweeted that the Sox weren't completely closing the door on Granderson.  Whatever that means.  They rid themselves of Salty and all his strikeouts, so I guess Granderson could fill that void.    I'd take him on a short term deal, maybe one year so he can try to prove himself into getting a bigger long term deal next season.  Give Bradley another year to prepare for taking over CF full time, or at least not having to count on him as an everyday player.

I also saw Buster Olney tweet a proposed Yankee lineup with Ellsbury hitting 3rd.  Not sure about that.  As for Ells playing LF.  The Red Sox tried that and it didn't work out too well.  Ran into Adrian Beltre and missed most of the season.  Obviously a freak thing, but he wasn't thrilled with the transition even before that.  His arm is weak, though not Johnny Damon weak, but the ground he covers makes up for it.

[tim_m]

From what i've seen it seems the Yankees are going to put Ellsbury in CF Gardner in LF and do a platoon with Wells/Soriano.

[pilferk]

From what i've seen it seems the Yankees are going to put Ellsbury in CF Gardner in LF and do a platoon with Wells/Soriano.

Given what the yanks owe him.....nada (the rest of his $$ basically is coming from the angels)...Wells isn't worth the roster spot. The yanks have come out and said they are not trading Gardner...and he has played lf pretty well in the past.

Sori can play rf, for sure, and is an upgrade from BOTH sides of the plate over Wells. At least compared to last years numbers.

I can't see them keeping both Ichiro and Wells on the roster. Maybe....but it's hard to see why. Since they have to pay Ichiro...I suspect they keep him. He, at least, could play late game defense in rf.

[tim_m]

Obviously one of them will go. We don't need 3 players who can play rf. I'd prefer Ichiro myself.

[tim_m]

Kelly Johnson to the Yankees official. 1 year deal for 3 million.

[Falcon]

Keith Olberman on the Ellsbury deal, pretty much what we've all said here but really funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdpfKTMtJz8&feature=youtu.be

[faldor]

Keith Olberman on the Ellsbury deal, pretty much what we've all said here but really funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdpfKTMtJz8&feature=youtu.be

it's great having Olberman back on ESPN. It'll be interesting to see how Ellsbury responds next season when so many think he's being grossly overpaid. Does he pull a Crawford and see that short porch in RF and try to hit 30 bombs again? Thus, messing up the rest of his game. Stay tuned.

[Falcon]

Seattle willing to go $240 for Cano?

Sounds like it:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/12/05/report-mariners-willing-to-offer-robinson-cano-a-10-year-240-million-deal/

[tim_m]

All i can say is have fun with that Seattle. That makes the Ellsbury contract look like chunk change.

[Falcon]

All i can say is have fun with that Seattle. That makes the Ellsbury contract look like chunk change.

I don't think 240 will get him to Seattle - it's just not shiny enough for Jay Z and Co..

[tim_m]

All i can say is have fun with that Seattle. That makes the Ellsbury contract look like chunk change.

I don't think 240 will get him to Seattle - it's just not shiny enough for Jay Z and Co..

Probably not, i'm sure he's looking for a team with a much better chance to contend.

[tim_m]

Ken Rosenthal is now reporting the Mariners offer isn't over 200 million. Cano is on his way to meet with them though. Apparently he asked them for 10 years 240 million.

[pilferk]

Mariners sign Cano.

10 years, 240 million.

For that contract, they can have him.   I wish him well, but..honestly...I'm glad the Yanks showed restraint with this one.

And Cano will be on a team that, perennially, loses 80 to 90 games a year....and, mark my words, Seattle fans will grow to HATE that contract, much like Yanks fans hate the Arod contract.

The solace is: He's going to a team that I doubt will ever be really relevant, in terms of winning %.

I suspect you will hear the Yanks have signed Infante, another bat, and potentially a bigger FA pitcher (or trade for one using Gardner) in relatively short order.  But we'll see.

[pilferk]

All i can say is have fun with that Seattle. That makes the Ellsbury contract look like chunk change.

I don't think 240 will get him to Seattle - it's just not shiny enough for Jay Z and Co..

Well, it did.

The thing is..what he's making in term and $$, he's probably going to lose in endorsement value.  And, as for chances of being a relevant, winning team...I just don't see Seattle being that team at this point.  Not in that city, in that ballpark, with the lack of appeal to most FA.  Unless Seattle is going to back up the truck and vastly overpay for EVERYONE (and try to cultivate a city that's actually got an interesting "scene" for a pro athlete)....but we'll see.

[Falcon]

All i can say is have fun with that Seattle. That makes the Ellsbury contract look like chunk change.

I don't think 240 will get him to Seattle - it's just not shiny enough for Jay Z and Co..

Well, it did.

Yep, I just saw the story.

I suppose it became evident to his camp the Yanks (or anyone else) weren't going to come close so that was that.

The Yanks will be fine, they'll move quickly on other free agents and shape the roster from there.